putting my money where my mouth is, bmw vrs pontiac

[Newbiewar]

so i guess, im thinking ahead, but i need to get everything in order.

heres the low down, my wife wants a new car, i told her when i come back from this deplyoment we'd start looking. currently she is driving an 00 honda civic 4 dr. she has always wanted to get a bmw. she doesnt really care to much which kind, just a bmw. although the car will be for her, i would rather have a g8. does this seem like a winable arguement. seeing that pontiac is supposed to be the american bmw, and the g8 is in some terms considered the 5 series fighter, what points can be considered better product on the g8 over a bmw (3 series, cause i cant afford a 5.) lets say for comparison sake

g8, permium sound, permium package with sunroof. 31k lease payment aprox 381 with 6k due at signing for 48 months 15k a year

or 405 for 36 months 15k a year

i'm considering leasing a 328i (comperably equipt) 36,9k lease payment aprox 576 with 6k due at sign for 48 months 15k a year

or 368 for 36 months 15k a year

obviously the gm is better at 4 year lease then the bmw... but 3 years?

[Dsuupr]

That would be a hard argument to win. The BMW is more of a name dropping product, whereas Pontiac, well . . .

Don't get me wrong the G8 is a great car, but if your wife wants it for showing off, the Pontiac just won't bring the same appeal as the BMW.

[daves87rs]

Will she test drive the G8?

[Newbiewar]

Will she test drive the G8?

yep, she already knows if we ever get new vehicles we must test drive gm.

she used to really like the cts, but she's always wanted a bmw...

perhaps i can get her on the practicality of starting a family with a bmw (small) vrs the g8, more room for car seat and what not.

but i havent seen the new g8 in person, i'm currios if it looks better then pictures, also how it compares (luxuary wise) i mean i think the leather is higher quality in the pontiac, the suspension might be better, not sure how the acceloration will compare but i think the bmw weighs more per hp(at least they usually do)

[Brougham-Holiday]

That would be a hard argument to win. The BMW is more of a name dropping product, whereas Pontiac, well . . .

Don't get me wrong the G8 is a great car, but if your wife wants it for showing off, the Pontiac just won't bring the same appeal as the BMW.

Who would have though that a Chrysler would be as cool some BMWs just a few years ago (300/Charger). If GM would turn up the volume on the G8 launch so Pontiac could grab some attention it would add to the cool factor.

BTW: I know 2 people with BMWs (2000 740, 2003 530) and I personally am not impressed, BMWs seem to age (style wise) much faster then other cars, they are also a fortune to repair.

[pow]

The point of a lease, IMO, is nothing due at lease signing and a short lease period. After four years you might as well finance. And putting $6K down seems risky if something happens to the car just aftera few months.

It seems as if she won't appreciate the driving dynamics of either the G8 or 328i, so the image of a luxury brand will probably give her greater consumer surplus.. Merc, Audi, Lexus, and Cadillac all have good lease rates now and then. I know Lexus currently has incentives on the IS250..

[The O.C.]

The point of a lease, IMO, is nothing due at lease signing and a short lease period. After four years you might as well finance. And putting $6K down seems risky if something happens to the car just aftera few months.

It seems as if she won't appreciate the driving dynamics of either the G8 or 328i, so the image of a luxury brand will probably give her greater consumer surplus.. Merc, Audi, Lexus, and Cadillac all have good lease rates now and then. I know Lexus currently has incentives on the IS250..

She sounds like my friend Julie.....who had that Civic....went to a Jetta VR6.....and now she's onto her 2nd 3-series.....which she loves.

If your wife is intriqued by the "BMW" mystique, then you could be setting yourself up for a fight. Even if she drives the G8, and even likes it, there is a good chance that a few months or years down the road she could "resent" you "forcing" her into the G8.....when deep inside, she really wanted the Bimmer.

Don't ever underestimate the value of BMW's (free) maintenance program!!! This can make a difference. Everything is covered minus tires and wiper blades (even brake wear and oil changes) for the life of the BMW warranty (4/50) which would more than cover the amount of time you'd lease the vehicle.

As far as G8 V6 versus 328i......I think you'd find performance quite comparable (even considering the BMWs lower hp rating.) A 6-speed manual 328i has run 0-60 in 6.1secs in two separate C&D road tests.....figure the auto would still be well under 6-secs....maybe 6.7? 6.8?

The BMW will be a bit smaller.....but much higher quality inside....so pick your trade-off.

3-Series models on the base (non-sport-package) suspension ride quite comfortably, but probably are just as stiff and handle just as good as the G8 V6 would.

Even being a GM fan, I can't believe you wouldn't enjoy driving the BMW. So, if it's what she really wants, and the numbers work out, go for it. BUT I agree with Empowah.....with EITHER car, if you are going to lease it, I'd put down as little money as possible.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Something to consider would be, how long is the G8 going to be around.

[Drew Dowdell]

This is a case where if could be a rusted out old Corolla with BMW badges on it and she'll still want it.

You want a G8, she wants to say she has a BMW. You buy the G8 and do a badge job... you're both happy.

[Camino LS6]

Other than the "snot factor", there is no logical reason to spend BMW money when you can buy a G8.

[BigPontiac]

Other than the "snot factor", there is no logical reason to spend Cadillac money when you can buy a G8.

Fixed :AH-HA_wink:

If/when Pontiac applies the G8 formula to a car the size of a 3 Series, then I'll agree with you.

[Newbiewar]

This is a case where if could be a rusted out old Corolla with BMW badges on it and she'll still want it.

You want a G8, she wants to say she has a BMW. You buy the G8 and do a badge job... you're both happy.

lol, i dont think that would work. but im uncertain of what to do with this situation. i feel like i would be in a better car with the g8, i think the bmw even though the payments may be less, it seems to me paying too much for too little.

im not sure, i guess we'll have to test drive them when that time comes, i guess we will be going to germany for 3 years, maybe then we will get the bmw.

she complains that i already have the vehicles i want, my firebird & sierra

[Cory Wolfe]

Spouses should let each other buy what they want, unless its a Yaris or something. Nothing wrong with any BMW.

To make an actual point, if she's used to a car the size of a Civic, it might be too much for her to suddenly upgrade to a full size vehicle. For that reason alone, she may end up liking the 3er more. Maybe she'll value the added size, though.

Edited March 16, 2008 by blackviper8891

[Intrepidation]

That sucks that the entire argument is based on badge snobbery. It makes logistics hard to use.

BMW

Pros

T3H B4DG3!

Drives good

Refined

Well built and good quality interior

Cons

None of them besides the X5, M3 and 6-series are very good looking IMO

Overpriced for what you get

Which isn't a lot until you start adding expensive options

Interior designs leave a lot to be desired

Gadgets can get overly complex to use

Electrical reliability

general reliability

good luck checking your own oil

G8

Pros

Understated yet muscular good looks

Interior design is far nicer IMO

Interior quality not a BMW but not shameful either

Fun to drive

Intuitive controls

Cons:

Not a BMW

No Nav

Interior quality not a BMW but not shameful either

[Camino LS6]

Fixed :AH-HA_wink:

If/when Pontiac applies the G8 formula to a car the size of a 3 Series, then I'll agree with you.

I was thinking of the 5.

I still have hope for a Pontiac Alpha to handle the 3.

Don't get me wrong, I like BMWs (at least the pre-Bangle ones). I just don't see a significant advantage to buying one over a G8 - at least not one that justifies the cost differential. I see the G8 as a superior value.

As for Caddy, the CTS is farther from a G8 than a BMW is in overall effect. In fact, I would compare the G8 to BMW as its closest analog.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Spouses should let each other buy what they want, unless its a Yaris or something.

QFT.

Before my wife and I were married, I was the one picking out the cars we'd buy/lease. At first, she didn't really mind, but then she had to go and develop a taste on her own! She really liked her '00 Grand Prix GT Sedan, and then when that lease ended, she got a '03 Rendezvous that she really liked too (I liked it, but not the tires nor the 3.4 V6). In late 2003, due to plans to move the following year that would add to her commute, we decided to share our leased vehicles to balance out miles. When the Rendezvous lease ended, she wanted a Terazza or Montana SV6, but the leases plain out sucked on them. An Envoy was more in our lease price range, and it was what I really wanted anyway. She was okay with it for a couple of months, then the truth came out - she really didn't like driving it at all. So she drove the '04 Malibu more, and to-date drives the '07 AURA more. Since the Envoy lease is up this August, and we can't agree on which vehicle to lease ("share"), we decided to go back to "his" and "her" vehicles again and I told her she can get whatever she wants as long as it's not a Toyota/Lexus/Scion product ( ). Our problem now is that her tastes lean more to expensive cars, and due to our financial situation she needs a dose of reality and look at lower priced vehicles ($26-$27k MSRP is the range we should not go over; what's she looking at? The Volvo S40/V50 at $29-$30k, the CTS at $35-$36k, and the Enclave at $36k). Since GMAC is not offering a great pull-ahead offer (only waiving 2 months of payments until 3/31) and I won't pay to get out of my Envoy lease, we've only test-drove so far the Enclave, VUE, and S40/V50 and didn;t get prices. I will say though that I don't feel that the S40/V50 are worth more than their MSRPs, and that's what she really likes overall. Maybe some more GM vehicles will appease to her at the upcoming NYIAS next week, especially since we get the GM Supplier Price discount and other bonuses that go along with that program.

And I agree with empowah and The O.C., $6k out-of-pocket for a lease is throwing money out the window that you'll never see again. At least with financing, you're aiding your equity in the car with that kind of down payment. The most I've ever put down on a lease is $1500, and that includes about $500 or GM Card Earnings. It's money you'll never see again, better rethink about leasing and go with financing, especially if you're going to keep the car over 3 years. Just my :twocents:

[regfootball]

you're stuck.

she wants something aspirational, the BMW is something all refined women aspire to.

now, you are on the cusp of her being able to give her that and you are trying to make a case for something 'practical'. The BMW is a reward. It makes her feel special. Anything less, she will feel compromised.

Tread carefully, you eff this up, she won't forget.

she can brag to her friends about a BMW and they will be wowed.

She would try to brag to her friends about a pontiac and g8 and they will look at her like WTF?

Also what viper said, for a woman going from a crackerbox wheezer fartcan like a civic into a real man's car like a g8 will be shock. the bmw is a much better buffer.

do this. plan on getting the 3, but ask if she will drive the CTS and G8 GT first and then empower her to make the decision.

the aura of the 3 series is built up in so many women, the mystique of it....you have to let her get it out of her system.

if you let her get that out of your system, maybe she will help you 'get something out of your system'....IYKWIM

and if she doesn't get the G8, then start immediately on the plan to get one for yourself.

Edited March 16, 2008 by regfootball

[Oracle of Delphi]

QFT.

Before my wife and I were married, I was the one picking out the cars we'd buy/lease. At first, she didn't really mind, but then she had to go and develop a taste on her own! She really liked her '00 Grand Prix GT Sedan, and then when that lease ended, she got a '03 Rendezvous that she really liked too (I liked it, but not the tires nor the 3.4 V6). In late 2003, due to plans to move the following year that would add to her commute, we decided to share our leased vehicles to balance out miles. When the Rendezvous lease ended, she wanted a Terazza or Montana SV6, but the leases plain out sucked on them. An Envoy was more in our lease price range, and it was what I really wanted anyway. She was okay with it for a couple of months, then the truth came out - she really didn't like driving it at all. So she drove the '04 Malibu more, and to-date drives the '07 AURA more. Since the Envoy lease is up this August, and we can't agree on which vehicle to lease ("share"), we decided to go back to "his" and "her" vehicles again and I told her she can get whatever she wants as long as it's not a Toyota/Lexus/Scion product ( ). Our problem now is that her tastes lean more to expensive cars, and due to our financial situation she needs a dose of reality and look at lower priced vehicles ($26-$27k MSRP is the range we should not go over; what's she looking at? The Volvo S40/V50 at $29-$30k, the CTS at $35-$36k, and the Enclave at $36k). Since GMAC is not offering a great pull-ahead offer (only waiving 2 months of payments until 3/31) and I won't pay to get out of my Envoy lease, we've only test-drove so far the Enclave, VUE, and S40/V50 and didn;t get prices. I will say though that I don't feel that the S40/V50 are worth more than their MSRPs, and that's what she really likes overall. Maybe some more GM vehicles will appease to her at the upcoming NYIAS next week, especially since we get the GM Supplier Price discount and other bonuses that go along with that program.

And I agree with empowah and The O.C., $6k out-of-pocket for a lease is throwing money out the window that you'll never see again. At least with financing, you're aiding your equity in the car with that kind of down payment. The most I've ever put down on a lease is $1500, and that includes about $500 or GM Card Earnings. It's money you'll never see again, better rethink about leasing and go with financing, especially if you're going to keep the car over 3 years. Just my :twocents:

Are you a man or a mouse? :AH-HA_wink:

[Lamar]

That sucks that the entire argument is based on badge snobbery. It makes logistics hard to use.

BMW

Pros

T3H B4DG3!

Drives good

Refined

Well built and good quality interior

Cons

None of them besides the X5, M3 and 6-series are very good looking IMO

Overpriced for what you get

Which isn't a lot until you start adding expensive options

Interior designs leave a lot to be desired

Gadgets can get overly complex to use

Electrical reliability

general reliability

good luck checking your own oil

G8

Pros

Understated yet muscular good looks

Interior design is far nicer IMO

Interior quality not a BMW but not shameful either

Fun to drive

Intuitive controls

Cons:

Not a BMW

No Nav

Interior quality not a BMW but not shameful either

You sound like you write for Road & Track. I agree though.

[Nick]

Sounds like she is set on getting a BMW. Regardless of how I feel for their recent designs (inside and out), they are still great cars (brand new and CPO). Your wife would be very happy with one, and after living with it for a little while, I'd imagine you would as well. Individuals are always quick to put them down in regards to their value, hype, or perception, but once you live with one day in and day out you come to realize why they get the accolades they do. You'll find out why BMW owners tend to be among the most brand-loyal customers.

A vehicle shouldn't be compared by how the specs look on paper. Hell, I'd say a good impression of a vehicle can't even be had with just a short test drive...Unfortunately, shoppers don't get much choice in that regard...

I've been looking to trade in my 540...Specifically for something along the lines of a LS2 GTO (or now I would even consider the G8, G8 truck, or even the new Camaro.) While I can't comment on some of the latter, the GTO I have driven on multiple occasions. I love this car as it is so similar to my car, yet it has the superior LS2 engine (same can be said for the G8, which from what I understand is also very comparable to the E39, with driving dynamics and performance similar to the M5.) But no matter how close I come to picking up a GTO, I find myself coming back to the 540. It has come to the point where I know my next car will be an e39 M5. For me, it is perfect inside and out...only thing that could make it even better (and in my opinion the best 4-door ever) would be if it had an LSx engine (S62 is still a great engine...but no LS).

With how much I have driven other cars (like the GTO), there is just something about my car... outside of the options, features, designs, specs, etc...There is just something that I feel when driving my car that other cars just can't replicate.

I'd say if you wanted to compromise a bit, look into a CPO 545 or 550...I've said before I don't like their looks, but looks are subjective...merely a matter of opinion. The looks can't detract from the fact that they are still great vehicles.

[turbo200]

The G8 is a lot better looking in person. I would go as far as to call it the best looking GM sedan, period. The Cadillac effect is wearing thin on me with the CTS, and the sides are really plain, the best angle for me is becoming the rear where the rear flares accentuate the taillights. So the G8 is a seriously good looking machine, especially with premium wheels you can put on it with all the extra change you get from not buying a BMW. The quality is nothing to sneeze at. It's great in its price class. BMW will have better/more solid controls in some cases, and in some cases the Pontiac will meet it. But I'm sure you're not a dash raper, and neither is your wife, and you will be more than happy. The G8 delights with an elegant ambience and a straightforward, smart, and classy dash/console area.

My advice....you're in the military, I believe. That's what you mean by deployment. So she must know not only the value of your life, but the value of the money you make. Take her to drive a G8, look at black, cause it looks freakin killer in that color, I think the lines are brought out, not hidden, it has a substance, and the luxury look/feel is really there. I think 50 Cent may have been onto somehting, and wasn't just in it for the money [though he did have the G6 GXP in the video too

Take it out, test drive the best, do the V8, emphasize all the great room and the beautiful texture of the leather [it's really quite good]. Emphasize the cool dash, with straightforward controls, and the fact that it all looks right and elegant. No missteps here.

Then go to BMW, take the 328, show her what the real numbers will look like back to back on both cars, because with a lease, that's the only way you'll be able to get close to a buy with a Pontiac [with a really great down and great interest rate of course]. Emphasize the small size backseat, the cheaped out equipment, the cheaped out wheels, then take it for a drive and emphasize the lack of power comparitively to the monster V8 torque. Of course, both lease and a buy are equal in the end, you end up selling the car for not more than what you owe, so it comes down to which car she likes more.

If after all this she still wants a BMW, then give her what her heart wants. You should only get what you really want after all, especially after considering all the options.

Edited March 17, 2008 by turbo200

[Camino LS6]

Good plan,Turbo.

[regfootball]

its remarkable that his wife is not lusting for a toyota, or a lexus. in that regard, it makes her quite hot, and he is a fortunate son.

[Newbiewar]

its remarkable that his wife is not lusting for a toyota, or a lexus. in that regard, it makes her quite hot, and he is a fortunate son.

she likes classic cars what can i say... she wants like a 30's pontiac or buick... but those arent really my cup of tea... but classic is better then foriegn

[Drew Dowdell]

As I implied earlier, she wants a BMW but she doesn't know why. If it doesn't matter if it's a 3-series or 7-series or X5 or Z4..... then truly, the only thing that matters is the hood ornament.

[The O.C.]

Are you a man or a mouse? :AH-HA_wink:

.....or a woman or a wouse?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiHYzPuq0KI

[The O.C.]

As I implied earlier, she wants a BMW but she doesn't know why. If it doesn't matter if it's a 3-series or 7-series or X5 or Z4..... then truly, the only thing that matters is the hood ornament.

OMG.....gee....GM would be SO lucky if just ANY of their brands drew the same attraction.......seems like the roundel has built itself quite a powerful reputation.....when people buy it "just" for the badge.....because it's built that strong of a foundation in the marketplace....

I'm sure that's what you meant above........praising BMW for it's long-standing dedication to it's brand and it's message......

[turbo200]

yep, that's pretty much it. if any of GM's brands had anywhere near the reputations of MB or BMW we'd all be singing praises, and GM would too. The truth is MB and BMW have worked hard to cultivate this image, and the buyers know it's there, they are natural choices for good reason.

[Newbiewar]

As I implied earlier, she wants a BMW but she doesn't know why. If it doesn't matter if it's a 3-series or 7-series or X5 or Z4..... then truly, the only thing that matters is the hood ornament.

sure hope this isnt the case, she is usually pretty intillectual about things, i mean dont get me wrong, she wears only name brand clothes, but she picks em all up at tjmax or whatever... hrmmm this might be a problem

[Intrepidation]

Buy a few BMW badges and stick them on a G8. It could work...they both have split grills and the G8's design is influenced by BMW. Throw in an M badge or 2 for good measure...it wouldn't be the first time someone put another brand's badge on a car.

[Nick]

sure hope this isnt the case, she is usually pretty intillectual about things, i mean dont get me wrong, she wears only name brand clothes, but she picks em all up at tjmax or whatever... hrmmm this might be a problem

There is no problem...either way she is getting a decent car...why not have it be a car she actually wants?