New York '08 Preview: 2010 Pontiac sports truck

[hyperv6]

Great idea and name except in this politically correct charged world we live in, the GM lawyers would be afraid it might offend Native Americans much like it is made a big deal in professional sport teams like in the NFL, NHL, etc.

It is a Native name so that would not be an issue but the fact Chrysler may own it would be a tougher issue.

[Blake Noble]

Hmmm ... another good name might also be Thunder (i.e. "Thunder From Down Under," haha). All the talk of Pontiac Trans Sports and Montanas in this thread made me remember this forgettable minivan concept car from 1998, I think it was, the Montana Thunder concept.

[Robert Hall]

It is a Native name so that would not be an issue but the fact Chrysler may own it would be a tougher issue.

Well, and also, a violent weapon isn't necessarily the best name for a car today... I couldn't see a car called 'Revolver', 'Pistol', 'Knife' or 'Shotgun' either...

[Blake Noble]

Well, and also, a violent weapon isn't necessarily the best name for a car today... I couldn't see a car called 'Revolver', 'Pistol', 'Knife' or 'Shotgun' either...

Let's see ... there's the Caliber, and then the Magnum before that ... I guess Dodge failed to get your memo.

[Robert Hall]

Let's see ... there's the Caliber, and then the Magnum before that ... I guess Dodge failed to get your memo.

Well, Caliber isn't necessarily a weapon thing....and Magnum is a wine bottle (and a Renault truck). Dodge definitely has some aggro names, though---Ram, Viper, Challenger, Charger, Avenger, etc...

Back in the '60s there were some aggro muscle car names---Eliminator, Judge, Spoiler, etc...

No has used Eviscerator or Defecator (which would be the greatest name ever for a heavy metal band, I think).

[Blake Noble]

Well, Caliber isn't necessarily a weapon thing....and Magnum is a wine bottle (and a Renault truck).

Caliber = guns (ex.: "the caliber of that rifle is .30-.06"). Magnum = type of gun (ex.: .44 Magnum handgun, quite obviously). I think of gun-related items when I hear those two names, and I think that's what Dodge intended to get across, but you get the idea.

(But, then again, I do live in a state that is anti-gun control, so ... )

And also, you have the Chevrolet Beretta (one of the least aggressive cars ever made with a fairly aggressive name, although "Beretta" does make me think of the name "Betty" for some odd reason) and Beretta handguns, but I'm just beating a dead horse now.

Edited March 20, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Camino LS6]

There is a certain appeal in having it named after a cruise missile. :AH-HA_wink:

[gmcbob]

In honor of PI day that just passed, I voted for this name - The Pontiac G3.14159265358979323846… :rotflmao:

I actually thought that was pretty funny!

[gmcbob]

I think G8 Sport Truck is a good name - it's simple and to the point. Customers will know what it is.

This is an interesting vehicle. Hopefully if it's priced and marketed well - I think this could be a real viable option for those who want something that will handle and perform well, but has some solid and real versatility to it too. There may be a bit of a stigma attached to it for a lot of consumers, but it could really catch on if marketed right. (especially with hip, trendsetting types like me)

[Nick]

There is a certain appeal in having it named after a cruise missile. :AH-HA_wink:

Haha...I forgot about that...

I think Tomahawk would make a great name. I really despise the general consensus by a lot of these message boards and blogs whose members feel it would be stupid to not call it "El Camino."

It isn't a Chevy...yet, these are the same people who would generally demand the same name if it was a GMC just because they are note familiar with the name "Sprint" (not that it would be that great of a name anyway.)

[Camino LS6]

Agreed on all points, Nick.

[regfootball]

g8 aztek

[Camino LS6]

g8 aztek

Now you're just being evil, Reg.

[regfootball]

how bout '6000 STE'

[wildcat]

The online Detroit News today has a caption under the G8 sport truck (or whatever) that says GM plans a car-based truck. So that makes it a truck, right?

Likewise, the headline on this thread says "2010 Pontiac sports truck," so that makes it a truck, right?

You certainly wouldn't say Pontiac sports car.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Now you're just being evil, Reg.

I think they should call it the Pontiac Piker. Those not familiar with OZ speak, I suggest you look it up.

[Camino LS6]

I just call it the best thing to hit Pontiac since the GTO. :AH-HA_wink:

[Oracle of Delphi]

I just call it the best thing to hit Pontiac since the GTO. :AH-HA_wink:

You mean the real GTO's from the 60's and 70's or the Great Pretender from 04-06? :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

You mean the real GTO's from the 60's and 70's or the Great Pretender from 04-06? :AH-HA_wink:

I mean the excellent Holden import which bested all previous GTOs in every way out of the box.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I mean the excellent Holden import which bested all previous GTOs in every way out of the box.

Did you consider looks? I thought it was an overweight Chevy Cavalier, to bad they didn't put a Chevy badge on that Holden, it had the Chevy DNA, not Pontiac. It might have sold a lot more if they had, and many in GM would not hate it as much as we did.

[Camino LS6]

Did you consider looks? I thought it was an overweight Chevy Cavalier, to bad they didn't put a Chevy badge on that Holden, it had the Chevy DNA, not Pontiac. It might have sold a lot more if they had, and many in GM would not hate it as much as we did.

I have never had a problem with the looks.

And, once behind the wheel, I was all grins.

[Blake Noble]

I have never had a problem with the looks.

C'mon. No one here can honestly say that the '99 concept was better. And I also remember reading all the way back in 1999, in an issue of Car & Driver, that the final design of that particular concept came from a man who didn't even know anything about the GTO or its history.

It always made me think of a 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix coupe from the front.

Edited March 21, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[SuperSport623]

Cant agree with you Borger... this is HAWT! and theres a chance if my finances work out, that a 6 Speed LS2 Goat is in my future...

[Camino LS6]

The 2004-06 GTO is much loved.

[Robert Hall]

The 2004-06 GTO is much loved.

Yep, and 20 years from now it will be well remembered, people will be driving them and restoring them, while the '04-08 W-body GPs will be going to the crusher..

[SuperSport623]

my dream choices for this summers big purchase (fun DD) are more aimed at an LS1 FBody, but if i can swing a bit more money and find a deal.. i want a goat pretty badly!

[Camino LS6]

my dream choices for this summers big purchase (fun DD) are more aimed at an LS1 FBody, but if i can swing a bit more money and find a deal.. i want a goat pretty badly!

I owned and loved both, but the Goat is far and away the superior piece.

[SuperSport623]

ive been weighing them both, and the price difference is the deciding factor, but the Goat seems to have a much more complacent interior, and more DD friendly.... i guess the extra weight wont be a big difference between the LS2 and the fact that ill be trying to keep it stock/unabused for a while

[Z-06]

ive been weighing them both, and the price difference is the deciding factor, but the Goat seems to have a much more complacent interior, and more DD friendly.... i guess the extra weight wont be a big difference between the LS2 and the fact that ill be trying to keep it stock/unabused for a while

Forget that extra weight, that thing is faster than the F and much better handler.

[SuperSport623]

thats what im thinking.... i just have to see how my finances pan out.... the car will be the daily driver, the nova's 8-10 mpg aint cutting it any more.... whatever i get is gonna be a 6 Speed, and will face a good commute to school/work everyday..... i think a goat will ahndle it well...and maybe i can make a decent deal if i can do cash instead of financing

[Camino LS6]

The GTO is a much more liveable DD, but I wouldn't hesitate to use an F-bod the same way. F-bods are also a great buy these days if you find a good example.

BTW: My Firehawk was faster than my Goat. I loved the drive of both cars, but they were sooo different.

[SuperSport623]

both are available with LS motors, both have the 6 speed, F bodies and GTO's are, IMO all HOT! and prices not considered id like either of the choices... i mean, id like T Tops, but id sacrifice them for the goat.. i like the idea of the hatchback more in the F bods.... such tough choices... the thing is, i wont have the money till June/July...so i havent been looking real hard yet..

[hyperv6]

C'mon. No one here can honestly say that the '99 concept was better. And I also remember reading all the way back in 1999, in an issue of Car & Driver, that the final design of that particular concept came from a man who didn't even know anything about the GTO or its history.

It always made me think of a 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix coupe from the front.

This one looked like a bad Speed Racer competitior crossed with a Aztec.

I would have been happy with the Woodward Ave GTO concept.

Either way I have driven almost every year GTO and the 04-06 was the best of all and held the concept of looking like a regular car with a killer engine. No add on body crap needed.

The only complaint I really could give is the gas tank in the trunck but I understand fully why it was there.

Edited March 21, 2008 by hyperv6

[GMTruckGuy74]

Okay, I guess I'm in the minority here, but I really like the looks of the '99 Concept GTO. I will say that some aspects of it are too cartoonish and outlandish, but you have to remember that other Pontiac concept vehicles from the '90s followed the same formula (look at the '97 Pontiac Rageous and the '98 Montana Thunder for proof). If you toned this Concept GTO down a bit, gave it more production-like exterior features (a real front bumper, for example), then it wouldn't be as bad as many of you think. I definitely see the '68-'72 A-body in it's design, with the '66/'67 GTO showing up in the rear design (namely taillights). This would have been one Pontiac I would have desired to won if it was produced.

[SuperSport623]

i see alot of cool cues in the design, but a toned down production version of the 99 could have gone either end of the spectrum.... im happy with the Goat we got... look how damn popular it is... the following is insane

[Blake Noble]

I definitely see the '68-'72 A-body in it's design, with the '66/'67 GTO showing up in the rear design (namely taillights). This would have been one Pontiac I would have desired to won if it was produced.

Any resemblance is coincidental. :AH-HA_wink:

[buyacargetacheck]

What makes more sense than a heavy V8 El Camino-type throwback (which will end up damaging G8 sedan sales at least a little for image reasons and is the wrong vehicle in these mpg-conscious times) is a Dodge Rampage/Plymouth Scamp/Volkswagen Rabbit Sportruck/Subaru BRAT-type truck based on a FWD platform like Delta. A Delta-based vehicle priced right would sell much better, keep Lordstown humming, and offer a better solution for the "landscapers and gardeners" that LaNeve refers to in this article:

Car, Truck? Will GM ever decide? http://www.thecarconnection.com/blog/?p=985

This ST thing will not last more than a couple of years and will do damage to Pontiac's budding "car" positioning. The whole cheap V8 performance thing is a non-starter. The Challenger and Camaro will do well for a year or two before reality sets in. Fuel-efficient Delta makes more sense.

Edited March 21, 2008 by buyacargetacheck

[SuperSport623]

really? damage to the brand? this is more pontiac then most pontiac products in a long time.... its unique in the marketplace, its fun and maybe you dont get the have-to-have-it factor of a v8, but not eveyrone wants a 4 cylinder, even if it makes the power of an 8... if i want a 6.0L RWD car/truck thing.... who are you to say im gonna drive a small delta truck? how do you know how its gonna sell? wait till the damn thing hits showrooms first.... everyone whining about how its destined to fail.... i think it will be a success! i really love this car, and if it lasts a few years, i might be able to afford one... and if i have the cash, your damn right im buying it.. i had my heart set on buying a fifth gen camaro, and yet i lust after this vehicle ten times more.... you can bet your ass if i can do it, this WILL be my first new car purchase!

Black GXP with a Stick... ive said it before and ill say it again.... i want it!

[turbo200]

okay, so the topic of whether it should be sold here or not isn't going to die down quickly. I just made two important points at CZ28, so I'm gonna post them here:

Pretend the El Camino never existed for a moment and now judge the car on its characteristics. Is there any reason why this car can't sell 10-15k units a year?

Remember the burgeoning youth market, 20-30 year olds with big pockets looking for unique expression and performance. Also the fact exists that many performance car owners also have a pickup in thier garage for the small waverunner they need towed, for the occasional trip to Home Depot.

There will barely be any to make a dent on Pontiac's image. But I can just image what a modded Pontiac G8 ST looks like, and if Pontiac can put an emphasis on making spectacular looking versions at the auto show circuits, with mods, like Scion does, this will ultiamtely help Pontiac's image, especially among young people.

The thing is this is a strong performance statement, and in the tours around the country auto show citcuits, GM must not fail to capitalize on this and build cars that LOOK like they perform as crazy as they do. They must release as many strong, aggressive, yet tastefully modded STs to the public as possible. This will be a great way of garnering the right kind of attention. With the right mods, this car will look killer.

Judge the car for its merits and not on the past. this is actually a strong performing, great handling, quality feeling car, unlike the Aztek and Torrent that came before it.

[turbo200]

that was the first here's the second. I'm referencing Delorenzo's offense against the ST; one of his core arguments was the lessons learned from little fanfare for SSR or Subaru Baja. I really didn't bother to read the rest of his argument since I felt those were weak intro points. so here's my second post:

Just to inject some reason in that above argument from Delorenzo.....SSR actually did quite well with a certain demographic, wealthy, priveleged guys looking for a weekend toy. SSR was also priced at $42k, at least 10k more than where the ST V8 will be at. SSR had ridiculous markups and was not a performance car.

Subaru Baja was ugly, misguided and didn't have an audience segment clearly in its crosshairs. The overall design appealed to women with its soft stance and conservative demeanor, yet it was a pickup and pickups by nature are blunt and rough, two features that don't appeal to women. The design of the Baja appealed to conservative moms, and conservative moms want to be seen in a wagon or crossover SUV.

Baja offered no performance.

Any analyst worth his/her salt knows the ST is completely different from these two cars in that offers something niche audiences are looking for all the time: unique looks and crazy performance.

There is a clear audience segment ST appeals to in my mind: GUYS. Young and old, especially young. GM HAS TO CAPITALIZE ON THIS APPEAL BY RELEASE MODDED SPECIAL EDITIONS, even if they're only specifically intended to increase the appeal at auto shows. This must happen to help capture attention.

OH, and hurry up with the damn thing already. No reason it shouldn't be here in a couple months, meanwhile gas isn't stratospheric.

Edited March 21, 2008 by turbo200

[turbo200]

are you listening, GM?

BTW, modding the 'truck' with great looking 22' wheels and some tasteful ground effects, as well as lowering it, would help enforce the message that this is a performance car with utility. That is all this is. No truck. And that's the way it needs to be marketed. It's a performance coupe with utility.

And once again I'll ask, are you listening GM? they should really pay me for this stuff.

EDIT: one more final point to strengthen my argument. SSR sold only on its looks. This was its appeal, and that hardtop that also made the truck look cool. It actually looked better with the top up. In any case, this is a study of design appeal. So it's kind of apples to apples with the G8 ST. The ST offers overall less unique looks, less immediately relatable and identifiable looks. Its less unique. But by nature, a car that's shaped like a pickup is gonna look unique, and the G8 is a good looking car to begin with. Mate that with those precious wheels I've been talking about and boom you have a winner. Beyond that though, looking at the facts, the ST offers useable performance, it can actually compete with real performance cars of the world. It also is $10k cheaper.

Now mate all those facts with this: SSR managed to sell more than 10k/year. Yes, in the end they were hugely discounted, and yes they added power to try and move it. How many people actually cared or knew they added power? Not many. This was just an attempt by GM to garner enthusiasm, but enthusiasts don't make a popular seller. But in the beginning not only were they hot, there were ridiculous markups. This ultimately hurt the SSR, as well as the fact that it was a weekend toy because of sacrificed utility and that it offered a distinctly un-"perfomance car" performance.

Edited March 21, 2008 by turbo200

[Camino LS6]

Thanks for saving me the effort - well said, Turbo.

[hyperv6]

Only a an idiot would compare the SSR to the G8 ST.

The ST is something you can really drive and afford as a daily driver. The SSR was a halo show piece that was way over priced.

If the SSR had only cost $28K and has a bed that you could haul more than luggage more of them would have sold. But at the price of a low end Vette what you buy.

The ST will not sell in great numbers but GM is not expecting it too. It will take care of those of us who want a car but still need to haul something from time to time. Hauling engines and other car parts in my last one was never an issue. I had a Big Block in the front and A tri powered 428 Pontiac in the bed.

There are many who have owned ZQ8 GMC and Chevy trucks that will go for this car in heart beat. I am one of them. If I keep my truck it may be a Solstice or Camaro. Or dump my truck and just get a G8 ST and it will serve all my needs.

But to say it will damage the G8 is just so far out of line... People will buy what they like but they will not avoid it because one of the models has a bed.

This is not a truck but a car that hauls things. It is no more than a top less wagon.

[Blake Noble]

There are many who have owned ZQ8 GMC and Chevy trucks that will go for this car in heart beat. I am one of them. If I keep my truck it may be a Solstice or Camaro. Or dump my truck and just get a G8 ST and it will serve all my needs.

I would go for the ST, but, each day, I grow a little more closer to committing myself to a new Camaro, so that won't pan out. The ST will, however, more than likely replace my Sonoma after college. It is the perfect direct replacement for my truck. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited March 22, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[Oracle of Delphi]

I would go for the ST, but, each day, I grow a little more closer to committing myself to a new Camaro, so that won't pan out. The ST will, however, more than likely replace my Sonoma after college. It is the perfect direct replacement for my truck. :AH-HA_wink:

Oh son, you're already committed to a new Camaro. :AH-HA_wink:

[Blake Noble]

Oh son, you're already committed to a new Camaro. :AH-HA_wink:

Heh-heh. :AH-HA_wink:

[SuperSport623]

so who am i treating to waffles at ihop? PCS? anything on yours?

[regfootball]

my gosh, the 10k of this pontiac may sell per year will not harm the brand. chances are better it will enhance it.

and yes, this is directly the same type of ride as the SSR, the style is a lot different but the buyers will be somewhat the same. the SSR was a roadster though.

maybe pontiac sells these for a couple years and then switches the imports to the g8 wagon.

this is one of those vehicles that instead of folding to whatever the media dolts say will happen, you just need to get in the showroom and go from there.

there are plenty of truck fans out there that want a niche truck and this might give them that. Let's let the process play out.

Edited March 22, 2008 by regfootball

[hyperv6]

I still don't buy this is a SSR like Vehicle.

It is not a roadster.

It is $15-20K Cheaper.

It will have a V6 option if GM holds to what was said a month ago.

You don't have to open the door to adjust the seats.

The bed can haul dirt vs the SSR bed just being a big carpeted trunk.

The SSR was a truck trying to be a car when this is a car with truck like qualities but it is still a car.

I would buy the coparo if the SSR had been under $30K, had a fixed roof, could be used as a truck.

The SSR is just not something you would want to drive to work everyday vs the ST is a car you could live with year round daily.

I would consider a ST but I never would want a SSR even when I could buy low milage ones under $30K for a daily driver.

[Camino LS6]

The main target audience for the ST consists of those who remember and love the El Camino, a mark the ST hits precisely. The SSR, on the other hand, missed that mark by a considerable margin.