GM to kill the H2 after 2014

[Toyota.vs.GM]

Has CAFE strike again?You be the judge. Edited March 10, 2008 by Toyota.vs.GM

[Robert Hall]

Has CAFE strike again?You be the judge.

Good riddance...one less 6000lb pig. They still have the GMT-900s, which are more useful.

[scharmer05]

It needed to be done sooner or later. It has a soft spot in my heart though.

[Drew Dowdell]

I thought it was going to be updated to the 900

[Intrepidation]

Good riddance...one less 6000lb pig. They still have the GMT-900s, which are more useful.

+1

[Nick]

As it is right now, the H2 doesn't truly support the Hummer namesake one bit, and the only premium thing about it is its price tag.

If it were to be redone on an architecture made to have the ability to tackle off-road duties, as well as be equipped with components which allow and aid for extended off-road capability, then and only then could it live up to its Hummer name. Otherwise, it is just a disappointment.

The H2 should be (or at least should have been) positioned to have the Range Rover directly in its sights. The Range Rover is a true premium vehicle. A beautiful vehicle inside and out; truly deserving of the price tag it holds. Not only that, but it is arguably one of the best off-road capable vehicles available to consumers.

Granted, the majority of these vehicles will never touch the smallest patch of gravel. The point is they are capable of it. They live up to their namesake and no excuses or exceptions are made when creating them.

It's a shame what has happened to Hummer. The H3, while much more "Hummer" than the H2, is still not enough.

I love Hummer and would hate to see it die, but barring some major turnaround (hopefully Hummer's upcoming products will be worthy of their name,) I'd say it might be time to put Hummer out of its misery.

[RJB]

Good riddance...one less 6000lb pig. They still have the GMT-900s, which are more useful.

+2 What a waste of a vehicle that should have never even come out.

[siegen]

[Robert Hall]

As it is right now, the H2 doesn't truly support the Hummer namesake one bit, and the only premium thing about it is its price tag.

If it were to be redone on an architecture made to have the ability to tackle off-road duties, as well as be equipped with components which allow and aid for extended off-road capability, then and only then could it live up to its Hummer name. Otherwise, it is just a disappointment.

The H2 should be (or at least should have been) positioned to have the Range Rover directly in its sights. The Range Rover is a true premium vehicle. A beautiful vehicle inside and out; truly deserving of the price tag it holds. Not only that, but it is arguably one of the best off-road capable vehicles available to consumers.

I'd love to see GM field a legit Range Rover competitor also..the question is which brand would it fit better under---Hummer, or Cadillac? An Escalade replacement that is more of a premium luxury SUV instead of a tacky blinged up Tahoe/Yukon could be a compelling RR competitor...

[ltdaniels]

what about the hummer jeep?!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

As it is right now, the H2 doesn't truly support the Hummer namesake one bit, and the only premium thing about it is its price tag.

If it were to be redone on an architecture made to have the ability to tackle off-road duties, as well as be equipped with components which allow and aid for extended off-road capability, then and only then could it live up to its Hummer name. Otherwise, it is just a disappointment.

The H2 should be (or at least should have been) positioned to have the Range Rover directly in its sights. The Range Rover is a true premium vehicle. A beautiful vehicle inside and out; truly deserving of the price tag it holds. Not only that, but it is arguably one of the best off-road capable vehicles available to consumers.

Granted, the majority of these vehicles will never touch the smallest patch of gravel. The point is they are capable of it. They live up to their namesake and no excuses or exceptions are made when creating them.

It's a shame what has happened to Hummer. The H3, while much more "Hummer" than the H2, is still not enough.

I love Hummer and would hate to see it die, but barring some major turnaround (hopefully Hummer's upcoming products will be worthy of their name,) I'd say it might be time to put Hummer out of its misery.

I agree about the H2.

Maybe GM could bring it back as a hydrogen vehicle? That'd be a cool twist on things.

I'd say slow sales and gas prices killed it, not CAFE. Well that, and now that GM has the better selling H3 and a complementary H3 SUT, it kind of makes the H2 redundant. GM makes too much money off the thing to let CAFE kill it.

That's fine by me though, I'd rather see Hummer focus on more capable products that better support the image that the company is slowly, and unfortunately, losing.

GM needs to take the $$$ for the H2 update and throw it at making the H3/H3 SUT and H4 even better.

(Yeah, I know the H3 truck is not technically an SUT)

[ZL-1]

I'd love to see GM field a legit Range Rover competitor also..the question is which brand would it fit better under---Hummer, or Cadillac? An Escalade replacement that is more of a premium luxury SUV instead of a tacky blinged up Tahoe/Yukon could be a compelling RR competitor...

I agree

[Oracle of Delphi]

Is that all they announced today? That's odd!

[wildcat]

What, did we miss another obituary?

P.S. - I bought some organic popcorn at the grocery store yesterday, but haven't tried it yet.

[PurdueGuy]

What, did we miss another obituary?

P.S. - I bought some organic popcorn at the grocery store yesterday, but haven't tried it yet.

I hate inorganic popcorn. lol

seriously, though... what's different about it? Pesticides & fertilizers used? Genetics? Oils for cooking?

back on topic

I personally think the H2 is a silly vehicle, but it has seemed to sell pretty well, and people seem to either love it or hate it. Granted, the "hate it" crowd sees it as the spokesperson for silly big SUVs that rarely leave the pavement, but it's gotta cost GM very little to develop/build since it shares so much with the Tahoe, I'd think it's somewhat of a cash cow. I don't mind GM selling silly vehicles to silly people at a nice profit if that's what they really want to buy...

[turbo200]

I still think the H2 style wise is pretty cool. It's a Hot Wheels car for 21st century. I don't think it's a design that will age terribly. In fact it still is pretty cool going down the road, though its effect is so common here it's a non-event. The execution of the concept is all wrong. There should be a more efficient way of tackling all of that vehicle's purposes and packaging them. It's horrendously packaged, and of course most of the execution in terms of quality/refinement leaves a bad taste. I would say about the only place it feels expensive/high line is the outside, though that needs updating too. The new Hx and H3 will fill the product vaccum well. Chief among priorities should be building a bigger platform than H3 that can offer a high line package while managing more efficiency, and live to a true heritage of being an off-road wonder. Hummer's lineup would then parallel Land Rover, with 2 medium large Suvs, one reasonably priced and the other exclusive and high end, and one compact.

I agree with those that believe Land Rover does a much better job at reaching the market and building this theme.

[Brougham-Holiday]

If they would just dump the whole Hummer brand I would be a much happier person. Only GM would dump Oldsmobile and keep a brand like Hummer. Just another brand without a purpose.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Kill Them All.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Kill Them All.

What did you name your kitten, Lee Harvey Oswald?

[Robert Hall]

Kill Them All.

Guns? Canadians? That doesn't compute..

[RJB]

GM needs to take the $$$ for the H2 update and throw it at making the H3/H3 SUT and H4 even better.

That sums it up right there, but I say kill the H2 way way before this supposed 2014 date. You know how long it takes GM to do revamps on a vehicle, they need to get crackin' now!!

Edited March 11, 2008 by RJB

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Is that all they announced today? That's odd!

You make me so happy to be a GM fan

[Oracle of Delphi]

You make me so happy to be a GM fan

Well we both grew up in the South, so just doing my part to help a fellow Southerner. :AH-HA_wink:

[gm4life]

Well I will miss it the last true Hummer in my mind. I would love to see them redo it on the GMT-900 with a D-Max 4.5L or 6.6.

[Nick]

Well I will miss it the last true Hummer in my mind. I would love to see them redo it on the GMT-900 with a D-Max 4.5L or 6.6.

How is the H2 even remotely a "true Hummer" (outside of the way it looks)?

The H3 is more Hummer than the H2, and it is based off an Isuzu.

The H1 is the only "true" Hummer...

It is unfortunate they never followed through with an updated civillian model.

[z28luvr01]

If killing the H2 gives them a better shot at keeping cars like the G8 and Camaro around, I'm all for it. The H2 is part of a dying fad anyway. Manufacturers of 24" spinner wheels will probably be the hardest hit by this news.

Who knows - 2014 is a long way off and I expect advances in V8 technology that will help make a big Hummer less of a CAFE liability.

[K.C.]

If they would just dump the whole Hummer brand I would be a much happier person. Only GM would dump Oldsmobile and keep a brand like Hummer. Just another brand without a purpose.

Funny, since they advertise them as purpose built. The brand does have a purpose, and that is to offer serious off road vehicles at a luxury price. On a side note, Hummers have done some good things that nobody thinks about. For example, owners of Hummers helped get people stuck in their cars off the highway during numerous blizzards that have hit. Hummer owners also took their Hummers into deep water to help people trapped in the waterlogged cars. Hummers have also been involved in saving lives in other extreme circumstances because they have the ability to go places that not many other SUV's can go. Yeah, Hummers have NO purpose.

I like the Hummer brand. I have a soft spot in my heart for Hummers. I want a Hummer H2 SUT. I would use the vehicle for its intended purpose as well. I live near many off road trails and with my job I need to get through some muddy places and covered with deep snow. However, I think they should trend their vehicles downward and compete with both Jeep AND Land Rover. There is a market for off road vehicles, and whether they be truck based or based on their own dedicated architecture, Hummers have a purpose within GM and with new technology they can become more fuel efficient.

And finally, there is no comparison between HUMMER and Oldsmobile. We do not live in a world filled with rattling wire wheel covers and stand up hood ornaments anymore.

[Robert Hall]

Funny, since they advertise them as purpose built. The brand does have a purpose, and that is to offer serious off road vehicles at a luxury price. On a side note, Hummers have done some good things that nobody thinks about. For example, owners of Hummers helped get people stuck in their cars off the highway during numerous blizzards that have hit. Hummer owners also took their Hummers into deep water to help people trapped in the waterlogged cars. Hummers have also been involved in saving lives in other extreme circumstances because they have the ability to go places that not many other SUV's can go. Yeah, Hummers have NO purpose.

That's all taken out of a recent ad. The reality is Hummers are driven around the suburbs...just silly overblinged toys...their natural domain is the Starbucks drive thru and shopping mall parking lots..they are too big and heavy for serious off-roading.

Edited March 15, 2008 by moltar

[K.C.]

That's all taken out of a recent ad. The reality is Hummers are driven around the suburbs...just silly overblinged toys...their natural domain is the Starbucks drive thru and shopping mall parking lots..they are too big and heavy for serious off-roading.

Then blame the buyers who don't use them like they should instead of the brand. Because of a free market, buyers can buy what they want and use them for what they want. It's not the brands fault they they aren't used for their intended use.

I am aware of the ad, but living in the mountains and seeing plenty of Hummers traversing the deep snow and seeing them off road, many buyers around here actually use them for their intended use, and these owners have used them for civilian rescue. Again, being used for their intended purpose.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Then blame the buyers who don't use them like they should instead of the brand. Because of a free market, buyers can buy what they want and use them for what they want. It's not the brands fault they they aren't used for their intended use.

But that'd be too hard... Assuming personal responsibility is a VERY unpopular choice in this country. Therefore, we'd rather hate the manufacturer for "swaying the market" or the doctor for "killing the patient" after the patient lived of McDonalds and sit-coms for 30 years of his/her life. This is ESPECIALLY true given that most of the crowd who cries the loudest about Hummer has been wrought from GENERATIONS of anti-GM snobs who hate the company simply because it's a bit too much like their american roots that they've been conditioned to destroy.

Even the people at FUH2 hardly ever ACTUALLY confront the drivers of the H2s they so happily flip off, swerve in front of and basically try to make wreck. Probably for good reason too, since they'd most likely get their 'bleeding heart' asses kicked.

I have a couple of friends that are anti-Hummer, anti-V8, anti anything fun. They HATE the H2 and when they see an H3 they rant about how "that H2 is ruining the environment." I quickly point out their ignorance by telling them that the H3 is a smaller Hummer that gets better mileage and sells better to boot. When the Hx debuted, I showed them pictures of the interior and both thought it was hot (Both are architecture majors) and very cool. Then I showed them that it was a Hummer and the mood got A LOT worse. Their sentiment for the concpt didn't even recover when I informed them that this Hummer will compete (READ: be as efficient as) a Jeep Wrangler and that this was the new direction of Hummer.

The point of my story is the same that it has always been. These people aren't influenced by their need to save the environment or even facts. They're influenced by "what's fashionable" and "what opinion their social institutions TELL them that they should have". Hummer had ALL of the potential in the world when GM debuted the brand, but the media attached a stigma to the division because all of these anti-GM people needed a reason to hate/discriminate against the same company and people that they have been conditioned to hate in the first place. Therefore, the stigma was attached and boared into all of our heads as fact. It's called confirmation bias (Look it up) So now we have Chevrolet = cheap and unreliable, Pontiac = redneck, GMC = Chevrolet, Buick = for old people, Cadillac = for black people (A horrible form of racism that is still allowed in all of the auto rags TO THIS DAY) Saturn = for geeks, Saab = GM, so don't buy it for that reason. and Hummer = ignorant people who hate the environment.

[Brougham-Holiday]

And finally, there is no comparison between HUMMER and Oldsmobile. We do not live in a world filled with rattling wire wheel covers and stand up hood ornaments anymore.

Funny, there are no wire wheels or hood ornaments on my Aurora, although there is some brand out there in Europe that doesn't seem to have a hard time selling cars with hood ornaments (Mercedes-Benz anyone)

Hummer has no purpose, its just taking money away from the GM brands that need help like Buick and Pontiac. In the world of $4 a gallon gas, Hummer isn't going to survive. Wouldnt it be great if GM took all of the money is has spend on Hummer and instead built a small truck that was better then Tacoma (like the Malibu in the mid car segment) or built a great luxury car to take on the S class and A8, as well as bring more luster back to the Cadillac brand!

GM likes to make cars that people think are cool, just not cool enough to buy (SSR, Reatta,etc) Its time the spent more on the core product then a few fringe models with small following and bad image.

[K.C.]

Funny, there are no wire wheels or hood ornaments on my Aurora, although there is some brand out there in Europe that doesn't seem to have a hard time selling cars with hood ornaments (Mercedes-Benz anyone)

Hummer has no purpose, its just taking money away from the GM brands that need help like Buick and Pontiac. In the world of $4 a gallon gas, Hummer isn't going to survive. Wouldnt it be great if GM took all of the money is has spend on Hummer and instead built a small truck that was better then Tacoma (like the Malibu in the mid car segment) or built a great luxury car to take on the S class and A8, as well as bring more luster back to the Cadillac brand!

GM likes to make cars that people think are cool, just not cool enough to buy (SSR, Reatta,etc) Its time the spent more on the core product then a few fringe models with small following and bad image.

It's obvious you only read half my post when I typed a paragraph about the purpose of the Hummer brand. I won't repeat myself because I'm not going to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Hummer isn't going to survive? There's never been any talk of killing the brand. One of the posters on here that works for GM says that Hummer will expand to include small, more efficient models. I doubt you know something he doesn't.

GM is spending more on their core vehicles. I'm sure you've seen a midsize car called the Malibu, or the upcoming Traverse. Those are two core vehicles that GM appears to put plenty of coin into. From what I can tell, people are buying the Malibu since there are few dealer lots. And, of course, since the Traverse is not out yet, it is too early to tell if that will be a big seller, but I'm sure there are high expectations.

[K.C.]

But that'd be too hard... Assuming personal responsibility is a VERY unpopular choice in this country. Therefore, we'd rather hate the manufacturer for "swaying the market" or the doctor for "killing the patient" after the patient lived of McDonalds and sit-coms for 30 years of his/her life. This is ESPECIALLY true given that most of the crowd who cries the loudest about Hummer has been wrought from GENERATIONS of anti-GM snobs who hate the company simply because it's a bit too much like their american roots that they've been conditioned to destroy.

Even the people at FUH2 hardly ever ACTUALLY confront the drivers of the H2s they so happily flip off, swerve in front of and basically try to make wreck. Probably for good reason too, since they'd most likely get their 'bleeding heart' asses kicked.

I have a couple of friends that are anti-Hummer, anti-V8, anti anything fun. They HATE the H2 and when they see an H3 they rant about how "that H2 is ruining the environment." I quickly point out their ignorance by telling them that the H3 is a smaller Hummer that gets better mileage and sells better to boot. When the Hx debuted, I showed them pictures of the interior and both thought it was hot (Both are architecture majors) and very cool. Then I showed them that it was a Hummer and the mood got A LOT worse. Their sentiment for the concpt didn't even recover when I informed them that this Hummer will compete (READ: be as efficient as) a Jeep Wrangler and that this was the new direction of Hummer.

The point of my story is the same that it has always been. These people aren't influenced by their need to save the environment or even facts. They're influenced by "what's fashionable" and "what opinion their social institutions TELL them that they should have". Hummer had ALL of the potential in the world when GM debuted the brand, but the media attached a stigma to the division because all of these anti-GM people needed a reason to hate/discriminate against the same company and people that they have been conditioned to hate in the first place. Therefore, the stigma was attached and boared into all of our heads as fact. It's called confirmation bias (Look it up) So now we have Chevrolet = cheap and unreliable, Pontiac = redneck, GMC = Chevrolet, Buick = for old people, Cadillac = for black people (A horrible form of racism that is still allowed in all of the auto rags TO THIS DAY) Saturn = for geeks, Saab = GM, so don't buy it for that reason. and Hummer = ignorant people who hate the environment.

Great post FOG. I completely agree with what you say. I like Hummer, Scratch that, I love Hummer. I never admitted it because I knew I would get backlash from other posters on here and I cared too much about being nice and not causing trouble, but this is America and I have the freedom to like what I want and should say what I like since this is an automotive forum and thats what others do. So I will defend Hummer, but my reasons for loving Hummer is not because they are fashionable, but because they represent something great about this country. Hummers have been used by the military just as Jeep did (another brand I love). Hummers are built to be the best off road vehicles on the market, and I think they are America's version of Land Rover. It's a paradox that I love nature and the environment in which I live. I love going way off road where there's no one to be found and viewing the beautiful of the Rocky Mountains, an H2 or H3 would be a great vehicle to have to get to see these remote areas of the country, but the cost of having a vehicle like this is a large, fuel gulping vehicle that gets 10-12 mpg.

Many people are ignorant and only see what they want to see. I cannot respect groups of people who try to tell people what to spend their money on. I cannot respect groups of people who tell you what to believe. That is not freedom. I will one day have a Hummer, and if someone flips me off for driving it, then that is their problem. Anyone who keys my Hummer or tries to burn it better have more money than me to pay for better representation in court. I'll make sure they spend some time in jail and I won't rest until they are in jail, even if I have to put a security system on my Hummer with video. I have the means to do such and I'd do it. The more I realize how much people hate them, the more I want one.

Ok, rant over.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

What's funny is that a lot of Hummer haters sure as hell loved the division a few years ago when gas was cheap and the H2 was bankrolling the rest of GM.

I'm the same way in that the more people hate Hummer, the more I want one. I'm not sure if it's just because I thrive on confrontation or because I feel so insulted by people trying to tell me what to buy.

[Oracle of Delphi]

K.C. I never denied your HUMMER love, in fact I encouraged it. Remember when you asked me what brand I saw you in, my answer was HUMMER!

[Satty]

Just for the record, I've thought the H2 was an unnecessary douche-mobile from the start. Same as the H3. Power tools for power tools, nothing else.

[Z-06]

Put a thoroughbred offroad vehicle in GMC brand which has capabilities of a Hummer and kill Hummer and we will call it a peace.

[K.C.]

What's funny is that a lot of Hummer haters sure as hell loved the division a few years ago when gas was cheap and the H2 was bankrolling the rest of GM.

I'm the same way in that the more people hate Hummer, the more I want one. I'm not sure if it's just because I thrive on confrontation or because I feel so insulted by people trying to tell me what to buy.

I've had numerous experiences about the same thing. Just pisses me off. People, in general, have been pissing me off lately. I try to be a nice guy, but when some tree hugger blocks my way at the supermarket and demands I give their organization $20 to support their cause that I don't fully agree with and then tries to pull a guilt trip on me, thats where I draw the line. They have the freedom to have their beliefs, then I should have the freedom to tell that skanky gunted bitch to get the f@#k out of my way and refuse to support her organization.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Put a thoroughbred offroad vehicle in GMC brand which has capabilities of a Hummer and kill Hummer and we will call it a peace.

GMC does not, cannot and never carried that image.

GMC trucks have always been about quality and durability. Professional Grade sums it up nicely, and the trucks will continue to sell to the suburban 'professional grade' clientele who don't want to be seen in a Chevy but can't afford/don't want the bling of an Escalade.

GMC is perfect just the way it is and I don't think it could ever be viewed as a formidable competitor to Land Rover or even Jeep.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I've had numerous experiences about the same thing. Just pisses me off. People, in general, have been pissing me off lately. I try to be a nice guy, but when some tree hugger blocks my way at the supermarket and demands I give their organization $20 to support their cause that I don't fully agree with and then tries to pull a guilt trip on me, thats where I draw the line. They have the freedom to have their beliefs, then I should have the freedom to tell that skanky gunted bitch to get the f@#k out of my way and refuse to support her organization.

Yeah, it's REALLY getting out of control.

I'm not sure if it's a backlash to the president or the generally more conservative previous generations or the effect of narrow minded academia or the environmental or just lazy people that have a 'cause' as opposed to a career.

What's sad is; the very people who accuse H2 owners et al. of being pretentious, seem to be some of the most pretentious and hypocritical people I know.

For instance; my afore mentioned friends expect me to sell my V8 classic cars (That get driven less that 500 miles a year) yet one of them hate handicapped people because they "ruin his designs" one of them has to burn lights in the apartment and have his computer on at all times among other things such as the window down/air or heat combo and he drives a larger, less maintained car than my Focus and drives it very spastically.

The other girl doesn't really believe in charity. She'd rather buy a $1000 piece of art to "support the local artists" than give money to anything. Now, I can certainly appreciate her affinity for art but hypocrisy is just that: hypocrisy.

Edited March 17, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Z-06]

Yeah, it's REALLY getting out of control.

I'm not sure if it's a backlash to the president or the generally more conservative previous generations or the effect of narrow minded academia or the environmental or just lazy people that have a 'cause' as opposed to a career.

No it is just the plain misuse of Freedom, Period.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm a bit confused by what you mean?

Is there really a way that you can misuse freedom? Wouldn't defining freedom negate the very reason for it, i.e. an oxymoron?

[Z-06]

I'm a bit confused by what you mean?

Is there really a way that you can misuse freedom? Wouldn't defining freedom negate the very reason for it, i.e. an oxymoron?

If that is the case then a mass murderer should also run free. That is his freedom to do what he wants to.

[K.C.]

Smallchevy, I think you are taking what he says too far. If I am deducing correctly, FOG's basis for freedom is based on the Constitution and laws. I doubt his logic includes mass murder.

Here's what I think is a misuse of freedom:

Not letting someone have their opinion.

Telling someone that their opinion is wrong.

Not liking someone because of their opinion.

Telling others how to spend their money in a free market economy.

Thinking that your opinion is greater than other's freedoms and feelings.

Oppresing others freedoms (which everyone does whether they mean to or not).

I think its appropriate that this topic of freedom is in the Hummer thread since its original use was to protect our rights to freedom. The Hummer brand should live on in this legacy, just as Jeep has.

[Z-06]

Smallchevy, I think you are taking what he says too far. If I am deducing correctly, FOG's basis for freedom is based on the Constitution and laws. I doubt his logic includes mass murder.

Here's what I think is a misuse of freedom:

Not letting someone have their opinion.

Telling someone that their opinion is wrong.

Not liking someone because of their opinion.

Telling others how to spend their money in a free market economy.

Thinking that your opinion is greater than other's freedoms and feelings.

Oppresing others freedoms (which everyone does whether they mean to or not).

I think its appropriate that this topic of freedom is in the Hummer thread since its original use was to protect our rights to freedom. The Hummer brand should live on in this legacy, just as Jeep has.

I whole heartedly agree with you. All these ideas are based on surmises that there is some limitation to one's freedom, be it respect to others or be it self-control, or be it to the respect or duty to the nation of USA or any free country as a whole.

Is there really a way that you can misuse freedom? Wouldn't defining freedom negate the very reason for it, i.e. an oxymoron?

FOG's idea just makes one think Freedom is nothing but uncontrollable urge of doing, liking and saying whatever you can since it does not have any fixed definition and that is where my analogy came into picture. If freedom is undefined then the murderer certainly can claim to be a free man without giving justifications of what he was doing. Limitlessness in limits or limits in limitlessness is what makes a human society grow over time.

[Brougham-Holiday]

Put a thoroughbred offroad vehicle in GMC brand which has capabilities of a Hummer and kill Hummer and we will call it a peace.

I agree 100% GMC is a strong established brand with a wide model range and a large dealer network. All the Hummer brand does is let GM have 3 of the same truck v 2. The current line up isn't even made of real Hummer, just redressed Chevrolet/GMC trucks.

Can we find out if Hummer has made GM any money and if so how much? Does anyone know if we can find out how much the development cost of the current Hummer line up was/is?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

FOG's idea just makes one think Freedom is nothing but uncontrollable urge of doing, liking and saying whatever you can since it does not have any fixed definition and that is where my analogy came into picture. If freedom is undefined then the murderer certainly can claim to be a free man without giving justifications of what he was doing. Limitlessness in limits or limits in limitlessness is what makes a human society grow over time.

Yeah, I guess I could've stated that better.

I'm talking about basic freedom such as freedom of choice and freedom of speech. There will always have to be boundaries but i guess the real question is; why are the boundaries being tightened?

The government just 'told' us that we are no longer allowed to buy big SUVs and powerful cars. California was trying to 'tell' its residents that they cannot use their thermostat at certain times. I am not comfortable with the direction this country and the enviro-hysteria is taking us.

Edited March 17, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Sixty8panther]

I for one, will miss the H2.

It's a free country, and even if gas goes to $4/gal if I had/have the $ to fuel it up

then damnit I should be able to buy one! I often times wonder why most American's

are so willing to have the government TELL them how to live their lives. CAFE sux!!!

[Sixty8panther]

What's funny is that a lot of Hummer haters sure as hell loved the division a few years ago when gas was cheap and the H2 was bankrolling the rest of GM.

I'm the same way in that the more people hate Hummer, the more I want one. I'm not sure if it's just because I thrive on confrontation or because I feel so insulted by people trying to tell me what to buy.

EXACTLY.

And KC: while I mostly agree with the gist of your rants PLEASE DO NOT

try to reduct the rich and beautiful history of Oldsmobile to wire-wheel

covers and stand-up hood ornaments!

Last time I checked THOSE Oldsmobiles sold, it was the quasi-Lexus

ones that looked like Gell-tabs that sunk the brand like the Titanic.

And what's wrong with stand up hood ornaments anyway?

Nothing says I'm proud to be a (Mercedes/Cadillac/Packard/RR...) better!

[AxelTheRed]

Whatever, I don't care what happens to the Hummer brand as a whole anyway. They can cut the whole pointless gas-sucking line for all I care. Set up Pontiac with the offroaders to legitamately compete with Jeep. Its supposed to be the performance brand, might as well make it the offroading brand too. Hell, doing that might keep it around a little longer.

The way things are going, that entire brand is probably going to see a massive sales drop off long before 2014.

Edited March 17, 2008 by AxelTheRed