Ever Been Attracted to the Opposite Orientation?

[Cory Wolfe]

But I never understood the "butch" lesbian.....or the "fem" gay guy.......

I'm GAY.....which means I want a MAN......if I wanted a woman, I'd be straight.....right? So what's the attraction to the "fem" guy? And on the lesbo front....isn't a girl a lesbian because she wants to be with a woman? So what's the attraction to the "butch" girl??

It's a good point, but in the end, I don't think it's anything about masculinity or femininity, but the true sex behind it.

Although, really masculine guys aren't that attractive to me. The huge muscles, forests of body hair, deep deep voice... It's completely unattractive. I've been attracted to both sides of the fence, but I find myself being attracted to someone right in the middle, slightly biased towards being feminine (a twink, if you will), but without the annoying personality. Now, if they honestly look like a girl, that's another story.

This is something of a mystery, isn't it?

My theory is that minds are attracted to minds and that the package those minds come in sometimes confuses the issue. In other words, sex is mental/emotional and the physical part just comes along for the ride.

That's a possibility. I think there's more to it, though. I've never found myself sexually attracted to a girl, even ones I had a real emotional connection with. This, all before I officially come to terms with myself being gay. I tried, too. I was hellbent on forcing myself to be attracted to girls. It just never worked though.

On the topic of this thread, I had a few girlfriends back in day. I'm sure a few of you who regularly attended the old, old chatroom we had might remember the ventures I had with Bekah. She, I was with at the height of my sexual confusion. It was cold of me to do this, but I honestly only started dating her in my attempt to "turn straight". I had this thought that if I had another girlfriend (my last one occurred before my confusion), it would make my problems go away. I basically thought I was having "gay" feelings because I didn't have a girlfriend. Again, massive failure. It didn't work.

I've never done anything more than a slight peck on the lips with a girl. I'm glad.

[deftonesfan867]

I'll admit that sometimes I've wondered what it would be like, but then I think about it more and well, it doesn't turn me on and I just couldn't see myself with another male. I do however have a strong relationship with my best friend Joseph. I've shared some of my deepest thoughts and secrets with him. I even cried when I first moved to Wisconsin because I knew I was going to miss my homie. I've even joked around and said if us two were ever gay that we would make a great couple

[The O.C.]

Although, really masculine guys aren't that attractive to me. The huge muscles, forests of body hair, deep deep voice... It's completely unattractive.

Oh, I could understand that. Look at your age. Most guys in and around your age don't have those beefy, hairy, deep voice traits.

For me, my "ideal" man (and Joe is certainly that) is someone a bit younger than me, say mid-to-late 20's, with a boyish look, but with manly traits thrown in for good measure like a bit 'o chest hair here and there, and a straight-acting type of "swagger" (i.e....not "twink".)

(Plus....I'm a sucker for nice legs.....and my man has some of the best I've ever seen.....not necessarily overly muscular, but nicely shaped, slightly hairy, etc.)

[The O.C.]

I'll admit that sometimes I've wondered what it would be like, but then I think about it more and well, it doesn't turn me on and I just couldn't see myself with another male. I do however have a strong relationship with my best friend Joseph. I've shared some of my deepest thoughts and secrets with him. I even cried when I first moved to Wisconsin because I knew I was going to miss my homie. I've even joked around and said if us two were ever gay that we would make a great couple

That makes sense.

Maybe you are somewhere on the "gay-scale"......more like a 3 or somethin'

I forget the psychologist, but he developed a scale from 1-10 and said that if 1 was "straight" and 10 was "gay" that 100% of the people fit between 1 and 10....but no one was EVER a 1 or a 10. You might be a 2 or a 9, but never a 1 or 10.

Interesting thought.....me...? If I can't be a 10, I'm DEFINITELY a 9.....

[Paolino]

My best friend and I in high school were inseparable. We had a very close relationship and experimented in junior high. We both enjoyed it, and we kept it up for a year or so. After he started dating a girl, the experimenting ended. It didn't take long for me to find a girlfriend myself, and once our relationship became serious and finally turned sexual, I knew that I was straight. He was my first "love" though, and I was still attracted to him, more on an emotional level than anything. Our girlfriends even made fun of the way we acted around each other.

Unfortunately, he passed away in a car accident the summer after we graduated. This may sound dumb, but I'm sorry I never told him I loved him when he was alive. I still think about him.

I had a friend like that--a guy friend... I mean, he felt like that about me, but he was totally straight. I of course, like a dumbass, fell in love with him. If he kissed me once, I swear, I probably would have been ruined for men for life.

I got used to it and hated when it grew back so a girl I know at MJ Capelli now keeps is up.

I had no idea what MJ Capelli was... all I knew is "capelli" means hair in Italian and I found it amusing. Now that I know it's a hair salon... it's not as funny LOL

I have a very close connection with my friend Catherine. She's my "Grace" if you will... she was the reason I came out--I couldn't bear hurting her, and we were starting something after a long few months of "heated" (I can't even think of what to call it), between us. To this day, I think if I was straight, we'd be married.

[ZL-1]

Question could go two ways.. so hell yeah I've been attracted to a lesbian!

Crap, you posted that first!

[ZL-1]

She died last week because of her drug use.

I'm sorry to read that, K.C.

[Oracle of Delphi]

This is something of a mystery, isn't it?

My theory is that minds are attracted to minds and that the package those minds come in sometimes confuses the issue. In other words, sex is mental/emotional and the physical part just comes along for the ride.

My mind to your mind, your mind to my mind, oh wait that's the Vulcan Mind Meld! :AH-HA_wink:

[NOS2006]

Crap, you posted that first!

Great minds think alike, sir!

[The O.C.]

My mind to your mind, your mind to my mind, oh wait that's the Vulcan Mind Meld! :AH-HA_wink:

F*ckin' Vulcans....only have sex every 7 years during Pon-Farr.....

I think I'd explode......

[Oracle of Delphi]

F*ckin' Vulcans....only have sex every 7 years during Pon-Farr.....

I think I'd explode......

That's OK, I'm a little to hairy I'm afraid! :AH-HA_wink:

[ZL-1]

Great minds think alike, sir!

Indeed they do, sir!

[The O.C.]

That's OK, I'm a little to hairy I'm afraid! :AH-HA_wink:

Awwww.....PCS.....I could trim 'dat $h! up for ya.....

....and we could have fun doing it......

[Oracle of Delphi]

No thank you, Mrs. PCS likes me just the way I am. Sweet, Lovable & Hairy! :AH-HA_wink:

[CARBIZ]

I went through the motions of dating girls in highschool, just to blend in. My closest friends knew I was gay. I dated one girl in grade 11 (hint: she was the Metal Queen of the mid-80s) because she was very proper (and actually quite beautiful, too) and I knew she wouldn't want me to 'put out.' I nearly went all the way with a girl when I was 15. She knew I was gay, she claimed to be bi and thought it would be fun. No amount of fantasizing got me through that ordeal.

I had a lot of close female friends in grade school, particularly grade 5 & 6. A psychiatrist my mother packed me off to in Vancouver (boy, would I like to meet that quack today!) assured my mother that I was straight. Yeah, right: I hung out with girls because I wanted to sleep with all my male friends! It was too much stress. As I got older, moved away from home (at 17), I sort of surrounded myself entirely in a 'gay world:' parties, clubs, the works. My only real contact with the straight world was my career life. At about that point, I had no real female friends. As I've grown older, I find myself not really liking female company that much. I get annoyed at the sexual inequality women have over men. I find it ridiculous to watch straight male co-workers fuss and fawn over girls half their age. And I also find myself resenting a world where the women demand 'equal pay for equal work,' but often end up not being able to hold up their end of the bargain, or are quick to retreat to the 'helpless-little-'ol-me' charade when it suits them - and the straight males let them.

When I moved to a small town and ran my own business for 11 years, being a bachelor, young (and - gosh!) handsome was a liability. I had female customers hitting on me all the time. (I have also since found out, usually by running into former customers in a gay bar in Toronto, that I had a lot of male secret admirers, too.) That proved to be a big liablity in a small town. In the early '80s when I worked at a GM dealership, I was out and didn't care. However, running a very high profile business in a small town, and having a lot of money sunk into it, I was not at liberty to be 'out,' although as the years progressed and my (now ex) BF of 10 years moved in with me in '91, I became out to everyone in town anyway. (If anyone witnessed the two of us in a grocery store together, bickering and whining, they would have known in a second we were a couple.)

I guess I have not really met any good female role models in my life. Being sexually curious very early in life also greatly influenced decisions (some regretable) that I made in my early years. In my experience, any of my male friends, 'straight' or otherwise, ended up in the sack with me, usually during camping trips, canoe trips or whatever. Didn't Kinsey suggest that 2/3 of males have had at least one homosexual experience in their life? Well, I must have met those 2/3 when I was in school and university.

THE OLD ADAGE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A STRAIGHT GUY AND A GAY GUY BEING 2 OR 4 BEER HAS PROVEN TO BE LARGELY TRUE IN MY BOOKS.

[turbo200]

I think this is related, if not, just ignore it.

In the beginning, attraction to a person is purely physical. Think about walking around in a public place where there are a lot of people. You scan the crowd and you can pick out various people you are attracted to. This is before you have even spoken to them. If you do speak to them and start to get to know their personality, the attraction begins to move from the physical to the mental/emotional. As the mental/emotional attraction begins to grow, it affects your physical attraction to the person. For me, if a person turns out to be someone whose personality is not 'attractive' to me, I also lose the physical attraction to them.

Now the thing that I've often wondered is if there have ever been studies done on people who are blind from birth and what impact that has on their sexual orientation. Since physical attraction is mainly visual, how does that affect your sexuality if you have never seen the physical characteristics of men versus women?

this fails to recognize the "soul connection". a lot of people refuse to believe this exists, because they deny the power of the soul to attract on its own. it does, and this is part of the first thing inwardly we are reacting to on a subconscious level. inside there is a soul that immediately recognizes traits about other souls, like when you automatically can tell a girl is bitchy or a guy is cocky and arrogant, it's just there and much deeper than that simple explanation I just gave. The most powerful attachments I've felt to woman [and maybe a couple guys friends] goes far beyond thier looks, though this of course is part of the package and ultimately is a huge determinant in who gets my attraction. I can think of one recent instance where the connection was so powerful and palpable well we had trouble talking to one another, being around each other, the sexual tension was thick in the room. she ended up going off to college, I thought she might be too young for me, but I should have given her a shot there would have probably been plenty I liked.

[turbo200]

going on with what I just said and tying it in to the original idea of this thread. this a lot of times goes back, well attraction exists for everybody, male to male, female to female. People are drawn to one another regardless of gender. This just happens. Men are drawn to alpha males, and this is how leaders are born. The stronger males, more powerful by nature by mannerism captivate the others and they all follow. Hopefully that person has the right things going on in them and is able to help the others become the best version of themselves through leadership.

With women it's exactly the same, only the role is reversed. there is no such thing as the typical alpha woman, that applies to males who want to teach and guide in everything and have thier opinions heard. the woman that draws attention is the one again with attractive qualities, qualities that males find appealing as well. she can listen, she can talk about fun things, she can turn the energy up, she knows how to hold her body well to keep things looking super attractive [ah the woman shape], and most of all she knows how to draw people through her openness. she seems to welcome you in and make everything at ease.

Anywho, I'm not trying to explain away all attractions within gender, just trying to give some perspective and say that there is definitely aspects of the personality and the person more to the point that appeal and draw people in, and that doesn't necessarily mean everyone who has these feelings is automatically gay or even bisexual.

mankind are meant to be friends. that's the way we're wired and it plays out in society.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I missed the woman that she used to be before drugs took that person away from everyone who loved her. She died last week because of her drug use.

Think of the good things and times and the two beautiful children she left for you to love.

[ocnblu]

Kaycee... I don't know what to say. I'm just sorry to hear your kids have lost their mother.

[scharmer05]

KC...I'm sorry for your loss. My Grandfather dealt with alcoholism most of his life and it wrecked the relationship I had with him, so I can understand the drug situation. I'm sorry for your family's loss. Remember the good times, forget the bad, and cherish the children she gave you.

[DetroitNut90]

I very unsuccessfully tried to like girls right up through 10th grade; it just wasn't meant to be. I'm much happier now that I'm out to my closer friends than I ever was through middle and early high school.

And KC: I'm so sorry for you and your kids' loss. I can definitely relate to the drug part...they've destroyed my dad's side of our family.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I can't say I've been interested in anyone but girls...

@K.C.- I really feel for your family, dealing with addictions is painful, and watching people self destruct at their mercy is equally painful as watching a beloved family member slip into Alzheimer's Disease. Addictions (not to drugs, but to drink and to gambling) have damaged many persons on both sides of my family, so much so, that I've made a life decision to abstain from all alcohol (except for Communion Wine, perhaps, but that's more of a rare technicality) as well as gambling. I'm doing this to protect my family from the anguish that other more distant relatives have brought. Besides, by popular "Designated Driver" custom, it also entitles me to all the Dr. Pepper and Sprite I can drink at parties.

I recently had the pleasure of getting to know a few female acquaintances better that I know through someone else at the Model UN this weekend, and I've got to say, as attractive as they are, they're alcoholics and awful crude, but they see this as a positive personality attribute... The whole path these girls are on is regrettable, but alot of people need a wake up call before they grow up I suppose.

[K.C.]

Thanks everyone on the well wishes. Drugs (Heroin in this case) change people. My children lost their mother and I lost a very good friend to drugs years ago when she chose her heroin addiction over them. Despite the distance and lack of communication, it's still shocking. We have each other. It'll just take time to get past this rough spot. This is the third rough spot, and they say things come in 3's.

Cheers guys, and thanks for the support. This has been a great thread.

[Croc]

I hear you all on the drugs thing...drugs are bad when people abuse them to fill some kind of void in their life--they use them as an escape from dealing with some root problem in a way that usually adds an addiction on top of the existing problem. It sucks. Recreational use in happy, well-adjusted people tends not to have the negative consequences to the same degree--just gotta be careful of that bad batch that can result in death or worse.

[regfootball]

this fails to recognize the "soul connection". a lot of people refuse to believe this exists, because they deny the power of the soul to attract on its own. it does, and this is part of the first thing inwardly we are reacting to on a subconscious level. inside there is a soul that immediately recognizes traits about other souls, like when you automatically can tell a girl is bitchy or a guy is cocky and arrogant, it's just there and much deeper than that simple explanation I just gave. The most powerful attachments I've felt to woman [and maybe a couple guys friends] goes far beyond thier looks, though this of course is part of the package and ultimately is a huge determinant in who gets my attraction. I can think of one recent instance where the connection was so powerful and palpable well we had trouble talking to one another, being around each other, the sexual tension was thick in the room. she ended up going off to college, I thought she might be too young for me, but I should have given her a shot there would have probably been plenty I liked.

the quickest way to find the soul connection is recognizing it in their eyes, then their smile, and if they respond to your sense of humor. then later it progresses. talking about semi serious things and then serious things.

in some cases its not always completely reciprocal, but you are able to get a somewhat measured response, even if its lukewarm.

And we all know there is probably more than one for everyone and it really sucks when you have to fight that battle at times. Being drawn to somebody extra, or wrong, perhaps, and knowing that for a variety of reasons, you can't or should not go anywhere with it. But sometimes it is plain as day in their eyes. i think its a little part of that soul connection thing turbo is talking about.

The thing that drives me insane is you feel like fire inside, yet its killing you at the same time. And you do and say stupid things, even though you know it can't go anywhere and that fact just multiplies your stupidity. You just hope in some small way the message you wish to get across connects in some very tiny way and just stays there untouched until one day they actually begin to understand what you might think about them.

what the hell was i just rambling about? ugh.

Edited March 6, 2008 by regfootball

[2005 EquinoxLS]

Nope. Only like women. Single women to be more exact. I am as straight as straight can be.

[scharmer05]

the quickest way to find the soul connection is recognizing it in their eyes, then their smile, and if they respond to your sense of humor. then later it progresses. talking about semi serious things and then serious things.

in some cases its not always completely reciprocal, but you are able to get a somewhat measured response, even if its lukewarm.

And we all know there is probably more than one for everyone and it really sucks when you have to fight that battle at times. Being drawn to somebody extra, or wrong, perhaps, and knowing that for a variety of reasons, you can't or should not go anywhere with it. But sometimes it is plain as day in their eyes. i think its a little part of that soul connection thing turbo is talking about.

The thing that drives me insane is you feel like fire inside, yet its killing you at the same time. And you do and say stupid things, even though you know it can't go anywhere and that fact just multiplies your stupidity. You just hope in some small way the message you wish to get across connects in some very tiny way and just stays there untouched until one day they actually begin to understand what you might think about them.

what the hell was i just rambling about? ugh.

one of your best

[The O.C.]

this fails to recognize the "soul connection". a lot of people refuse to believe this exists, because they deny the power of the soul to attract on its own. it does, and this is part of the first thing inwardly we are reacting to on a subconscious level. inside there is a soul that immediately recognizes traits about other souls, like when you automatically can tell a girl is bitchy or a guy is cocky and arrogant, it's just there and much deeper than that simple explanation I just gave. The most powerful attachments I've felt to woman [and maybe a couple guys friends] goes far beyond thier looks, though this of course is part of the package and ultimately is a huge determinant in who gets my attraction. I can think of one recent instance where the connection was so powerful and palpable well we had trouble talking to one another, being around each other, the sexual tension was thick in the room. she ended up going off to college, I thought she might be too young for me, but I should have given her a shot there would have probably been plenty I liked.

I TOTALLY agree.....I think the soul connection between Joe and I is what has made us so close so quickly. He truly is my "soul mate."

[The O.C.]

Thanks everyone on the well wishes. Drugs (Heroin in this case) change people. My children lost their mother and I lost a very good friend to drugs years ago when she chose her heroin addiction over them. Despite the distance and lack of communication, it's still shocking. We have each other. It'll just take time to get past this rough spot. This is the third rough spot, and they say things come in 3's.

Cheers guys, and thanks for the support. This has been a great thread.

I too wish you well.

Perhaps a loss to drugs is one of the hardest loss anyone can endure. We can only come out of our rough spots as stronger people. Don't ever forget that!

[The O.C.]

the quickest way to find the soul connection is recognizing it in their eyes, then their smile, and if they respond to your sense of humor. then later it progresses. talking about semi serious things and then serious things.

in some cases its not always completely reciprocal, but you are able to get a somewhat measured response, even if its lukewarm.

And we all know there is probably more than one for everyone and it really sucks when you have to fight that battle at times. Being drawn to somebody extra, or wrong, perhaps, and knowing that for a variety of reasons, you can't or should not go anywhere with it. But sometimes it is plain as day in their eyes. i think its a little part of that soul connection thing turbo is talking about.

The thing that drives me insane is you feel like fire inside, yet its killing you at the same time. And you do and say stupid things, even though you know it can't go anywhere and that fact just multiplies your stupidity. You just hope in some small way the message you wish to get across connects in some very tiny way and just stays there untouched until one day they actually begin to understand what you might think about them.

what the hell was i just rambling about? ugh.

Reg, you're gonna make me tear up......

[regfootball]

NEW DAY. what i wrote last night was crap. LOL.

[the_yellow_dart]

Don't say that REG, it made a lot of sense.

The armour plating that is regfootball cracked open and there was a guy with something emotional to say inside. :AH-HA_wink:

[jcgable]

This entire thread is a psych major's WET DREAM. I'm loving every bit of it. keep going kids.

[jcgable]

This posts hits home for me. I had a deeply intimate emotional relationship with a woman in my teens and early 20s. Being young, I thought that this was being "in love". We dated and had a sexual relationship, and once I met my former partner, I told her I was gay and she was surprisingly accepting of it and remained in my life until I removed her from it because of her recent drug problem. She was the mother of my two children. I missed the woman that she used to be before drugs took that person away from everyone who loved her. She died last week because of her drug use.

As for some of the posts, it shows that some straight folks still separate themselves from gay folks, and it's sad to see since we're all part of the same community. It really doesn't matter who are programmed to fall in love with. The fact that some are closed to deeply intimate friendships with someone of the same sex doesn't make you gay. It makes you human.

Camino, I like what you said about the lady who said that people are simply sexual. She sounds like a wonderful woman.

O.C., I can probably get kicked out of the "bear" culture for saying this, but I am with you on hairy backs. I like the hairy chest, stomach, legs, arms, and furry faces, but I wax the hair that has been growing in on my back and shoulders. I used to just pluck out what I could.

This has NOT been an easy month for you has it dear? I am so sorry.

[jcgable]

Now the thing that I've often wondered is if there have ever been studies done on people who are blind from birth and what impact that has on their sexual orientation. Since physical attraction is mainly visual, how does that affect your sexuality if you have never seen the physical characteristics of men versus women?

Unfortunately, there are very few studies regarding sexual orientation for a number of reasons. By and large, the psychological community is very open to examining sexuality. It is considered one of the final frontiers of evolutionary psychology because it ties in the relationships between all 3 evolved phases of the human brain (the reptilian-basic functions such as breathing, hunger, fight or flight, etc., the mammalian-maternal instinct, caretaking, community living, etc., and the emotional center-love, emotional attachment, and all non-instinctual urges and feelings). The issue, however, is there is very little funding to support any kind of psychological examination of sexuality for two reasons: The first is a lack of funding because it is still very much a taboo topic for many individuals, the second being that a lot of Gay advocacy groups oppose the idea of any studies because they feel it makes homosexuality appear as a disease. What these groups don't understand is that homosexuality has been off of the list of diagnosable ailments for well over 35 years.

From what I understand however, is that your external senses (such as smell, sight, hearing, etc.) do not affect your sexuality... theoretically. If sexuality was determined by sight, then there (THEORETICALLY) would be no blind gay people, which there are.

[A Horse With No Name]

haha You mean dikes? Yeah, they scare the $h! out of me. Those Gladiator lesbians... YIKES!

Actually I have been atracted to lesbians who were not "lipstick" lesbians...

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Some are hairy....some are smooth.....

My BF has the NICEST, red pepperoni nipples....with a shading of hair around them.....

(j/k.....now I'm REALLY trying to annoy Reg.....)

I remember a nice looking girl from college who had hair around her nipples. The answer is NO, NO, NO if those things have hair around them, and NO, NO, NO if they are attached to a man...

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

It's funny because I don't know what REALLY makes one "gay" or "straight."

Is it the overriding emotional feelings and attractions we have?

Or is it the sexual attraction?

Or is it a combination of both?

I'm more inclined to believe a combination. Lord knows....I LOVE sex with a man....every part of it. But I could NEVER be in a relationship with someone if I didn't have that emotional connection/feeling/desires as well......on the flip side, I could never see myself with a woman.....because, sex aside, I could never envision the same level of emotional connection with a woman as what I've felt before with men......

I find the same thing when it comes to women. I am probably the only guy on the planet who doesn't lust after a one night stand. Sex with the Mrs. is always best if we spend a hour or so talking and connecting first...

And actually about 75% of the friends I've had in life have been female. I could never imagine a close emotional relationship with a man. Enjoy going out and drinking beer with the guys or wrenching on cars or whatever, but for deep friendship I'm pretty much female only.

Actually, I only have a few "close" male friends and even then I much prefer my female friends to them.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I don't think any one person "seeks out" "homosexual" or "heterosexual" relationships.

I think it just "happens."

You fall in love with who you fall in love with. It's genetic. It's deep inside yourself. I don't think you have a choice what relationships you are gonna "seek out."

Maybe you are totally straight....but I'm glad you had the chance to feel some special emotions with your friend. Nothing but good can every come from that. You'll always have those memories. I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to tell him how you feel......

Look at the way gay teenage boys seek out other guys. What gay teenaged guy gets up in the a.m. and says "I want to be part of a persecuted and unpopular minority, and give up girls?"

It's biological all the way, baby.

chris

[A Horse With No Name]

interesting statement. i think i have a lot more women friends than guy friends, quite honestly, to me they are a heckuva lot more fun to talk with and joke with. certain types of them anyways. the ones who are not psychotic female princesses with major ego problems.

it makes me think about my guy friendships. love to talk sports, and of course about women, cars, sure. but i am not big into monster trucks, and action movies and shooting things with guns. but honestly, most days, if i didn't talk to any guys about anything, it would be no skin off my back. I really enjoy conversing with women more often.

to me, its easier to talk to women about emotional issues to a point. maybe for guys who prefer to talk to guys about emotional type stuff, then it might be natural to assume they may be drawn to that aspect of another person/guy if that is what they are in to.

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

anyone like chicks with hairy backs?

(touche', OC)

Maybe not hairy backs but I like the way some European gals don't always shave their legs/armpits...

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

This entire thread is a psych major's WET DREAM. I'm loving every bit of it. keep going kids.

Indeed...

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I went through the motions of dating girls in highschool, just to blend in. My closest friends knew I was gay. I dated one girl in grade 11 (hint: she was the Metal Queen of the mid-80s) because she was very proper (and actually quite beautiful, too) and I knew she wouldn't want me to 'put out.' I nearly went all the way with a girl when I was 15. She knew I was gay, she claimed to be bi and thought it would be fun. No amount of fantasizing got me through that ordeal.

I had a lot of close female friends in grade school, particularly grade 5 & 6. A psychiatrist my mother packed me off to in Vancouver (boy, would I like to meet that quack today!) assured my mother that I was straight. Yeah, right: I hung out with girls because I wanted to sleep with all my male friends! It was too much stress. As I got older, moved away from home (at 17), I sort of surrounded myself entirely in a 'gay world:' parties, clubs, the works. My only real contact with the straight world was my career life. At about that point, I had no real female friends. As I've grown older, I find myself not really liking female company that much. I get annoyed at the sexual inequality women have over men. I find it ridiculous to watch straight male co-workers fuss and fawn over girls half their age. And I also find myself resenting a world where the women demand 'equal pay for equal work,' but often end up not being able to hold up their end of the bargain, or are quick to retreat to the 'helpless-little-'ol-me' charade when it suits them - and the straight males let them.

When I moved to a small town and ran my own business for 11 years, being a bachelor, young (and - gosh!) handsome was a liability. I had female customers hitting on me all the time. (I have also since found out, usually by running into former customers in a gay bar in Toronto, that I had a lot of male secret admirers, too.) That proved to be a big liablity in a small town. In the early '80s when I worked at a GM dealership, I was out and didn't care. However, running a very high profile business in a small town, and having a lot of money sunk into it, I was not at liberty to be 'out,' although as the years progressed and my (now ex) BF of 10 years moved in with me in '91, I became out to everyone in town anyway. (If anyone witnessed the two of us in a grocery store together, bickering and whining, they would have known in a second we were a couple.)

I guess I have not really met any good female role models in my life. Being sexually curious very early in life also greatly influenced decisions (some regretable) that I made in my early years. In my experience, any of my male friends, 'straight' or otherwise, ended up in the sack with me, usually during camping trips, canoe trips or whatever. Didn't Kinsey suggest that 2/3 of males have had at least one homosexual experience in their life? Well, I must have met those 2/3 when I was in school and university.

THE OLD ADAGE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A STRAIGHT GUY AND A GAY GUY BEING 2 OR 4 BEER HAS PROVEN TO BE LARGELY TRUE IN MY BOOKS.

Odd when you say that you don't enjoy female company that much. A lot of people think that gay men are more feminine than strait men, when in fact I think the opposite is true.

I think it is very possible to be a strait guy and have a feminized brain, and I am that guy. Not that any one would know, because I am a large, burly construction worker (don't bring wax for the hair on my back, bring a John Deer tractor, please) in real life. But when my wife was pregant I found myself wanting daughters more than I wanted sons, and I really like being around my daughters MUCH more than being around my sons. It has only been within the last few years that as my sons have gotten interested in cars and a little older that I've really started enjoying being around them.

In high school I had lots of female freinds, and was part of a writing group that wrote poetry, etc. that was largely female. I liked my female teachers MUCH more than my male teachers. Also knew a lot of girls from church, the speech team, the debate team, etc.

That being said, I am an Electrician and work in a field that is 99% male, go figure. Imagine that I just like building things/working on things.

People joke about being a lesbian in a man's body, but sometimes I wonder a bit if I am that guy...

Which would explain my love of Miata's...

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

A wise woman once told me that she believed that human beings weren't homosexual, heterosexual, or bisexual, but that they were simply sexual.

Now I don't know that she was right, but I found the idea to be thought-provoking.

Exactly. Sex is a primal urge. Contrary to what the idiot religious fundamentalists tell us it is not something that is easily controlled or compartmentalized.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

LOL.....could be....

But then how do you explain the fact that I'm so turned off by any sexual thought of a woman......but sport an instant woody at the mere thought of kissing a guy? Or that I crave a man....but have never even wondered what it would be like with a woman.....and then finally the fact that of all the girls/women I'm met throughout my life, I've never had any sort of emotional or passionate connection with them?

If I felt equal parts for both men and women (bisexual?) I might agree with that theory.....but there are enough of us that recognize ourselves as "gay" as opposed to "bisexual" that I think explains it's more-or-less one-way or the other.....

Sexuality is a continuum (spelling sucks, sorry) from probably mostly pure strait to pure gay, with lots of shades of gay in between. Biologists tell us that we all start out essentially female and that a burst of testosterone starts the conversion process to "male" in the womb. Nature tends to like to experiment, and all of us are an experiment of nature.

I often think the people that the religious fundy's "cure" of being gay are merely bixexual.

Also, I went to a conservative Christian college and one of the guys in my dorm came up with the theory that all people are essentially bisexual in some way or another. In our late night dorm debate actually a lot of people agreed with him.

Chris

[K.C.]

the quickest way to find the soul connection is recognizing it in their eyes, then their smile, and if they respond to your sense of humor. then later it progresses. talking about semi serious things and then serious things.

in some cases its not always completely reciprocal, but you are able to get a somewhat measured response, even if its lukewarm.

And we all know there is probably more than one for everyone and it really sucks when you have to fight that battle at times. Being drawn to somebody extra, or wrong, perhaps, and knowing that for a variety of reasons, you can't or should not go anywhere with it. But sometimes it is plain as day in their eyes. i think its a little part of that soul connection thing turbo is talking about.

The thing that drives me insane is you feel like fire inside, yet its killing you at the same time. And you do and say stupid things, even though you know it can't go anywhere and that fact just multiplies your stupidity. You just hope in some small way the message you wish to get across connects in some very tiny way and just stays there untouched until one day they actually begin to understand what you might think about them.

what the hell was i just rambling about? ugh.

Great post reg. I totally agree. I am glad to see some emotion from you. You suddenly became more real to me after reading this post. When you mentioned the fire, it reminded me of the Johnny Cash/June Carter Cash (writer) song "Ring of Fire". You really do fall into a burning ring of fire. You go down down down and flames get higher, and it burns burns burns. It's so true.

I recently met a wonderful man named John. We met at a dog show and we've been in constant contact. I am currently going through a ring of fire right now. You just can't fight who you fall in love with, and to quote another song (for you straight guys), " What you can find in the eyes of a woman, is the man you want to be."

Edited March 6, 2008 by K.C.

[A Horse With No Name]

It's a good point, but in the end, I don't think it's anything about masculinity or femininity, but the true sex behind it.

Although, really masculine guys aren't that attractive to me. The huge muscles, forests of body hair, deep deep voice... It's completely unattractive. I've been attracted to both sides of the fence, but I find myself being attracted to someone right in the middle, slightly biased towards being feminine (a twink, if you will), but without the annoying personality. Now, if they honestly look like a girl, that's another story.

That's a possibility. I think there's more to it, though. I've never found myself sexually attracted to a girl, even ones I had a real emotional connection with. This, all before I officially come to terms with myself being gay. I tried, too. I was hellbent on forcing myself to be attracted to girls. It just never worked though.

On the topic of this thread, I had a few girlfriends back in day. I'm sure a few of you who regularly attended the old, old chatroom we had might remember the ventures I had with Bekah. She, I was with at the height of my sexual confusion. It was cold of me to do this, but I honestly only started dating her in my attempt to "turn straight". I had this thought that if I had another girlfriend (my last one occurred before my confusion), it would make my problems go away. I basically thought I was having "gay" feelings because I didn't have a girlfriend. Again, massive failure. It didn't work.

I've never done anything more than a slight peck on the lips with a girl. I'm glad.

Really feminine females are only so-so attractive to me. I kind of like tomboyish girls/women, to be honest. So I can relate to what you are saying.

Ideal women for me is either athletic or intellectual or musically talented.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

..and K.C., sorry to hear about the loss of your children's mother.

Chris

[K.C.]

This has NOT been an easy month for you has it dear? I am so sorry.

It's had its rough patches, thats for sure. But life is still good.

[04monteintimidator]

this fails to recognize the "soul connection". a lot of people refuse to believe this exists, because they deny the power of the soul to attract on its own. it does, and this is part of the first thing inwardly we are reacting to on a subconscious level. inside there is a soul that immediately recognizes traits about other souls, like when you automatically can tell a girl is bitchy or a guy is cocky and arrogant, it's just there and much deeper than that simple explanation I just gave. The most powerful attachments I've felt to woman [and maybe a couple guys friends] goes far beyond thier looks, though this of course is part of the package and ultimately is a huge determinant in who gets my attraction. I can think of one recent instance where the connection was so powerful and palpable well we had trouble talking to one another, being around each other, the sexual tension was thick in the room. she ended up going off to college, I thought she might be too young for me, but I should have given her a shot there would have probably been plenty I liked.

this is really weird because i know EXACTLY what you're talking about... it happened to me during this quarter of school... i had seen this one girl around campus before and had thought she was very... very attractive and then in my chemistry lecture one day i look across the lecture hall and there she is... as im leaving lecture i notice her walking only slightly in front of me... it is at this point that i can feel my heart beating faster, my breathing is quick and shallow and my blood literally felt like fire... it turned out she lives in the dorm right across from mine... but to this day all that has ever been exchanged between us is eye contact and a few smiles... ive walked back from lecture right next to her many many times but could never build up the courage to introduce myself... tomorrow is the last chem lecture and my final is on monday so on this campus of 50,000+ students even with her living right across from me i may never see her again... who knows what could have been... oh well

as far as the topic of the thread... its kind of an interesting question... as much of you know i am a gymnast so you can imagine i have a few gay friends, im really close to all of my friends regardless of gender/sexuality etc just because thats how i am... but anyway... at nationals last year one of my gay friends told me that he found me very attractive, and i wasnt upset or anything... he was being honest and i knew he wouldnt do anything about it because he respected me and my sexuality as i respected his... there was enough trust there that when he got locked out of his room that night i let him share a bed with me because i had one to myself... i can honestly say that there were never any thoughts of anything happening between us... at least on my end... but im definitely very close to him... to the point that i was very upset in february when the shootings at Northern Illinois University happened because he and many of my other friend go to that school and live seconds from campus... luckily noone i know was hurt in that tragedy but it was an absolutely terrifying 2 hours between when i heard about it and when i heard they were all okay, i even cried at one point which is not something i usually do... anyway i think in the end it just comes down to a respect for each other and the ability to say that you have emotional feelings for someone without being ashamed, because emotional feelings do not always constitute romantic feelings... for example, you love your mother and father much differently than you love your girlfriend or wife, so why is it a stretch to think that you cant love men in a way that is different from the way you love women?

Edited March 6, 2008 by 04monteintimidator