Other "Confirmed" Rumors

[dutch]

News from Vegas this week: La Crosse Super rolls out in 2007 Centieme (Lambda crossover0 launches next year... not in 2007 . You'll see it at NAIAS. It is a quantum leap over the Rendezvous. Seats 8! Holds true to the looks of the 2003 concept...only better. More muscular. Lexus RX.. look out! Rainier is done Terrazza is out after 2007 Plans for a RWD V8 flagship still being considered... but at least 4 years away. Same for Velite coupe. Debating new vs. Holden platform.

[!!!TED!!!]

All that sounds like a proper plan. Should be a good year for Buick in 06. Looking forward to Lambda.

[wildcat]

dutch: Much thanks for sharing this information.

[dutch]

dutch: Much thanks for sharing this information.

[post="31942"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Also talk of introducing a 5 seater crossover below Centieme. Buick has a vehicle like this in China that might be adapted for the US market.

[Alpha]

Thanks for the info...and at least Buick will have 3 vehicles until 2009...

[zoomtm]

where have you been alpha..havent seen you in a while :huh:

[Chazman]

Plans for a RWD V8 flagship still being considered... but at least 4 years away.  Same for Velite coupe.  Debating new vs. Holden platform.

[post="31927"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Interesting stuff there, dutch.

I wonder if Holden/Buick/Pontiac would be willing to foot the bill to update the VZ coupe to meet US crash standards?

[dutch]

Interesting stuff there, dutch.

I wonder if Holden/Buick/Pontiac would be willing to foot the bill to update the VZ coupe to meet US crash standards?

[post="31949"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Buick dealers may have to deal with a few years of only carrying 3 products, but there is definitely product in the pipeline. As one dealer put it, "I'd rather have 3 strong vehicles to play with thean 5 or 6 lukewarm offerings.". Lucerne will do great ($35K for fully loaded V8 on same platform as DTS) Centieme should finally live up to the Rendezvous initial promise of going toe-to-toe with Lexus RX.

[wildcat]

dutch: Which is the Chinese Buick that a possible "5-seater crossover" may be based? Is that what has been discussed previously here as a (Theta) Equinox rebadge for model year '09?

Is Centieme confirmed as the name of the Lambda crossover? If so, did they explain why they wanted to eliminate the name Rendezvous? Is it thought that the Lambda crossover is much "more" of a vehicle (not just a simple re-fresh), so they didn't want to use the name Rendezvous?

When they talked of the 5-seater and he RWD flagship, were images (drawings) shown? Or just talk?

Finally, can you shed any more light on the use of "Super" in other Buick models, or the use of "Reserve"?

Thank you very much!

[dutch]

dutch: Which is the Chinese Buick that a possible "5-seater crossover" may be based?  Is that what has been discussed previously here as a (Theta) Equinox rebadge for model year '09?

Is Centieme confirmed as the name of the Lambda crossover?  If so, did they explain why they wanted to eliminate the name Rendezvous?  Is it thought that the Lambda crossover is much "more" of a vehicle (not just a simple re-fresh), so they didn't want to  use the name Rendezvous?

When they talked of the 5-seater and he RWD flagship, were images (drawings) shown?  Or just talk?

Finally, can you shed any more light on the use of "Super" in other Buick models, or the use of "Reserve"?

Thank you very much!

[post="31955"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Don't know Buick's Chinese line-up... may be a Theta rebadge.

Centieme wasn't confirmed, but it won't be Rendevous. This vehicle is such a quantum leap over the R-vous that it really does demand a new name.

No images shown of any of the pipeline products - La Crosse Super, Lucerne & Lambda were there.

I think you can expect the return of "Super" to Buicks going forward (like Cadillac's V-Series or Saturn's Red Line). La Crosse looks like an entirely new vehicle with the front end and wheel tweaks.

[Croc]

The Rendezvous name needs to stay. I really REALLY hope they reconsider. I have a feeling they will get some feedback at the shows...

[Northstar]

This is some promising news for Buick. I really want to see the Lambda crossovers, as I'm hoping they can kick some tail for GM.

[Trimnell1]

dutch: How is the stance of the Buick Lambda? Does it sit high off the ground like the Saturn Outlook spy photos that we've seen or does it sit low to the ground like the Chrysler Pacifica? I hope that it's not like the Pacifica because it looks too much like a station wagon courtesy of its low stance.

[dutch]

dutch: How is the stance of the Buick Lambda?  Does it sit high off the ground like the Saturn Outlook spy photos that we've seen or does it sit low to the ground like the Chrysler Pacifica?  I hope that it's not like the Pacifica because it looks too much like a station wagon courtesy of its low stance.

[post="31984"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Stance is like the 2003 Centieme concept... except the production vehicle appears larger. And the front end treatment is a bit more masculine (think Velite or Lucerne) rather than feminine (La Crosse)

[buickguy]

This is exciting stuff for Buick. I don't like the Centieme name, but the concept is beautiful.

[Trimnell1]

Thanks dutch, I was looking at some of my Centieme photos and it rides off the ground higher than the Pacifica, which is great. I also remember an episode of Motorweek that I taped awhile ago that showed the Centieme in motion and it looked terrific. The front end is a little too round but I'm sure glad that the front end of the production version is more masculine and squared-off.

[ehaase]

The Rendezvous name needs to stay.  I really REALLY hope they reconsider.  I have a feeling they will get some feedback at the shows...

[post="31971"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree. The 1992 Camry was a quantum leap over the previous version. The 2000 Odyssey was a quantum leap over the previous version. The 2006 Avalon is a quantum leap over the previous version. The 2006 Hyundai Sonata is a quantum leap over the previous version. The 2002 Altima was a quantum leap over the previous version. The domestic automakers need to stop this nonsense of always renaming models. There is nothing wrong the with the Rendezvous name.

[thegriffon]

Don't know Buick's Chinese line-up... may be a Theta rebadge.

Centieme wasn't confirmed, but it won't be Rendevous.  This vehicle is such a quantum leap over the R-vous that it really does demand a new name.

No images shown of any of the pipeline products - La Crosse Super, Lucerne & Lambda were there.

I think you can expect the return of "Super" to Buicks going forward (like Cadillac's V-Series or Saturn's Red Line).  La Crosse looks like an entirely new vehicle with the front end and wheel tweaks.

[post="31959"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

There is not currently a crossover in China - just a 5-door version of the Daewoo J-body Excelle sedan dubbed HRV. A swb Theta was in the pipeline for Buick, would not be surprised if it debuts in China first. If so it may be similar to the S3X and Antara/Vue.

[Dsuupr]

The Buick lineup will seem so thin, but maybe not so when compared to other product lines out there. In the end, GM is better off building hot products for Buick rather than a bulk of so-so products.

[ehaase]

I would not want to see Buick sell any small crossover vehicles. Crossovers would sell better as GMC products than as Buicks or Pontiacs. Buick should just concentrate on the niche of traditional American cars. I like the updates planned for the LaCrosse, and the Lucerne looks better every day.

[caddycruiser]

Stance is like the 2003 Centieme concept... except the production vehicle appears larger.  And the front end treatment is a bit more masculine (think Velite or Lucerne) rather than feminine (La Crosse)

[post="31988"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hopefully that doesn't AGAIN end up meaning dorky and disproportionate, like the unfortunate snoze on the Lucerne...

Regardless, can't wait to see this thing! And further, I do understand renaming it if it really is such a MASSIVE leap over the vehicle it is replacing, but that does take some time for the people to adjust (G6, Lacrosse, etc.). Then again, if it's as nice as thought to be, people won't give 2 s**ts about the name http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[Cananopie]

I hope they keep Rendezvous as well- because the name earned it! Giving cars new names every time a new model comes out (which seems to be GMs plan for Buick) won't give Buick a good solid reputation that the LeSabre, Century, Regal, or Park Avenue gave Buick.

I've said it before- The Rendezvous has been THE vehicle that has kept Buick afloat at ALL during this "transition" period. Nobody expected the success the Rendezvous created- it was supposed to be the Aztek that people were supposed to go crazy over and Buick (once again) got the other vehicle... if the Rendezvous did as good as they predicted (and no one predicted it'd do this good) Buick would be very sunk. People love the Rendezvous- to get rid of its name is ridiculous because no matter WHAT GM will say the newer version is "leaps and bounds" ahead of the old one. GM is never going to admit that a car is worthy of keeping a name because "oh... well, it's not THAT much better than the older version"

And I'd never even consider driving a Rendezvous because I hate any type of SUV, but it definitely has earned its keep. The evolution of the Rendezvous would be fun to watch... not the 'new name game' every 5 years.

[Croc]

I agree. They kept Malibu. 'Nuff said.

[turbo200]

Rendevous should be kept, but it won't be hugely detrimental to sales to see it go away--this will be such a great car I can see it doubling on RDV sales, and getting conquests. dutch, thanks for all the info, great to read everything positive aboue where Buick is going. Like Chazman was saying, Buick/Pontiac/Holden could foot the bill to update the current GTOs structure for new crash standards. This could be an easy fix, and its platform is good enough to keep around. It would be wonderful to see some Buick and Pontiac RWDs sometime soon rather than having to wander through all the Lacrosses and G6s and wonder when the excitement and rebirth will finally happen-----in 2010. dutch.... on the updates on the Lacrosse, did they include a new headlight and interior design at all? How about chrome? Let's talk about chrome and decontenting. Will Buick continue to pretend like they are not supposed to be an upscale brand and not include chrome trim on thier cars? I'm being serious here......thanks for the info

[Northstar]

Maybe if they make the a Theta Buick they'll end up naming it Rendezvous. The new X-Over seems a bit bigger and I'm not sure if it's really a Rendezvous, it sounds like a lot more.

[ehaase]

I agree.  They kept Malibu.  'Nuff said.

[post="32246"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I remember reading that Lutz wished he had changed the Malibu name. Lutz always changed the names when he was at Chrysler, and he does the same thing at GM.

[evok]

Like Chazman was saying, Buick/Pontiac/Holden could foot the bill to update the current GTOs structure for new crash standards. This could be an easy fix, and its platform is good enough to keep around. It would be wonderful to see some Buick and Pontiac RWDs sometime soon rather than having to wander through all the Lacrosses and G6s and wonder when the excitement and rebirth will finally happen-----in 2010.

[post="32265"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Not so easy. The easy part is the sensors for the occupant detection system on the passenger side front. Than there are the air bags for out of position requirements. The hard part is getting the front structure up to both the Insurance institute frontal offset test and US NCAP. They would have to be good and 5 star.

Not to mention the vehicle would have to meet the Isurance institute side impact test. Have to get a good on that because GM has already agreed to it. Currently the GTO does not have side bags.

Not to mention that the fuel system would have to be redesigned for US standards. Meaning the fuel tank is currently in the trunk. That would not fly for more than a stop gap vehicle.

All of this needs to be designed and validated and it will cost money.

Also manufacturing cost will have to be taken into account because the product will not be common with zeta.

[pow]

The Catera, on which the GTO is based, received a "Good" rating for the IIHS frontal test, so it's fairly safe, if not class leading. The Monaro has side airbags, btw.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I would not want to see Buick sell any small crossover vehicles.  Crossovers would sell better as GMC products than as Buicks or Pontiacs.

Buick should just concentrate on the niche of traditional American cars.  I like the updates planned for the LaCrosse, and the Lucerne looks better every day.

[post="32094"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I would rather see Buick sell a compact crossover SUV wagon (car-based) than GMC or Buick. GMC really needs to stay truck-only, Pontiac needs to aim for sporty/performance-I think Buick would be the best division for this. Why? The Acura RDX will be coming out soon; Infiniti has its CX on the way; and the BMW X3 and Mercury Mariner are at least semi-popular. Buick would really be missing out if the premium car-based crossover SUV wagon segment booms in popularity, and I really am sick of seeing Buick not live up to its potential. And Chevy's getting a mainstream compact car-based SUV below the mid-size Equinox, and we can't have too much overlap because it will otherwise hurt GM again, and the executives need to learn something for a change.

[wildcat]

I'll be customer #1 for a "compact Buick crossover SUV wagon." (That's a mouthful!) People sometimes say Buick shouldn't have any small or compact vehicles, but I disagree. The market in general seems to be moving away from big, so please don't let Buick be limited to big. There are small and compact vehicles of all kinds, from economy to luxury, and there's no reason a Buick can't be smaller (it just has to have the same character traits: smooth ride, luxurious, power in reserve, etc.).

[ehaase]

I'll be customer #1 for a "compact Buick crossover SUV wagon."  (

[post="32524"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I don't think that both Buick and GMC need a compact crossover, since the same dealers will sell them, and I think that the GMC would be far more successful. Jeep is introducing compact crossovers, and GMC should have them also. Again, Buick/Pontiac/GMC will be one large division in the future, and overlap should be reduced as much as possible.

[Northstar]

It is my understanding that the planned GMC is a "sub-Theta" meaning it's pretty small; a Buick would be basically the same as the Equinox is size.

[jbartley]

I don't think that both Buick and GMC need a compact crossover, since the same dealers will sell them, and I think that the GMC would be far more successful.  Jeep is introducing compact crossovers, and GMC should have them also.  Again, Buick/Pontiac/GMC will be one large division in the future, and overlap should be reduced as much as possible.

[post="32605"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

i agree. GMC would be a better candidate.

a sportwagon would be more Pontiac/SAAB
with a luxury small-ute Cadillac

[Trimnell1]

Sorry to say this, but evok has stated that the GMC GMT-162 sub-theta program has been cancelled, perhaps with some or even all of the other sub-thetas. They've been sent back to the drawing boards because of cost overruns. This comes from that "other " forum where some of our insiders post on occassion.

[ehaase]

Sorry to say this, but evok has stated that the GMC GMT-162 sub-theta program has been cancelled, perhaps with some or even all of the other sub-thetas.  They've been sent back to the drawing boards because of cost overruns.  This comes from that "other " forum where some of our insiders post on occassion.

[post="42869"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Good. The Vue is small enough, and Toyota's new RAV4 is much larger.

[turbo200]

hmmm....but products liked the T2x were quite promising. I'm not sure GM needs that many small crossovers anyway, but I hope at least one brand sees the T2x become a reality, it would be perfect as a Pontiac or Saturn or Chevy obviously or maybe GMC as a stretch [Chevy already has too much, so it would be better as a Pontiac or Saturn].

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Good.  The Vue is small enough, and Toyota's new RAV4 is much larger.

[post="43155"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Ditto-GMC doesn't need its image further diluted as a truck company than the Acadia Lambda will already do. Give Chevy a compact car-based crossover SUV below the Equinox, move the VUE premium for now, add a Buick Rapid version to compete with Mercury Mariner and BMW X3 and call it a day.

[ehaase]

Give Chevy a compact car-based crossover SUV below the Equinox, move the VUE premium for now, add a Buick Rapid version to compete with Mercury Mariner and BMW X3 and call it a day.

[post="44896"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

My understanding is that the Pontiac Torrent may be transferred to GMC when the Equinox is redesigned. I do agree with this because I think that a GMC crossover will sell better than a Pontiac or Buick crossover. GMC has long been successful selling rebaged Chevrolets.

Because of the HHR, I don't know that Chevy needs a smaller crossover. I think that GM considers the HHR as a crossover.

I believe that the next generation Vue will have similar styling to the T2X.

[thegriffon]

They are being re-evaluated, not necessarily cancelled. The same number of crossovers is planned as before. That may mean only Cadillac and Saab get unique sheetmetal. The Vue will be similar to the 5-door Opel Antara, with only minor sheetmetal differences (mostly forward of the A-pillar) to the Chevrolet sold outside NA. The smaller GMC would have been more like the Xterra and Nitro, but that may now change.

[wildcat]

ehaase: You've made clear how you feel, but I was under the impression the Torrent would be dropped, and Buick [ not GMC ] would then receive a (likely) rebadge of the Equinox, ca.2009.

thegriffon: Is that being re-evaluated? Because if a smaller Buick crossover isn't coming, that will eliminate any hesitation for me to buy a Buick Enclave. Moreover, if there will be a smaller Buick crossover, is it more likely to be styled like a mini-Enclave or an Equinox with a Buick grille? Edited November 19, 2005 by wildcat

[ehaase]

You've made clear how you feel, but I was under the impression the Torrent would be dropped, and Buick [ not GMC ] would then receive a (likely) rebadge of the Equinox, ca.2009. 

See GMT177 at http://www3.sympatico.ca/tedkrygier/future.htm. I think this chart is fairly accurate. He has at least one good source for this chart. He just updated for the Cadillac and Saab TE platform vehicles, which Evok recently revealed at GMI.

Of course, anything beyond the 2008 model year and 2007 calendar year is probably subject to change. I have my doubts about GMX022, GMT962 (at leat the Buick portion), and GMX 276, but this is my uneducated guess.

[wildcat]

Edmunds.com seems to think Buick will get a "smaller" crossover, after Cadillac and Saab get one in 2008. If so, I hope it truly is smaller, 'cause there'd be no point for Buick to have two 7-passenger crossovers, unless they're otherwise very different from each other.

ehaase: Your post is logged in at 3:31 am (!) Get some sleep! ^_^ Edited November 22, 2005 by wildcat

[ehaase]

ehaase: Your post is logged in at 3:31 am (!)  Get some sleep! ^_^

[post="46792"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

At my age, I do not sleep as long or as well as I did when I was your age.