Astra test drive

[Satty]

I'll keep it brief. I really wanted to love this car, but came out underwhelmed. I drove a silver 3-door automatic with premium audio and performance tires. I had no problem with the car having "only" 138hp, but the automatic seemed very slow to react, the stick is a must for this car. The tires did surprisingly well in the ice/slush that was just about everywhere, I'm sure all-season rubber would have done better. The infamous cupholder that everyone seems to bitch about seems like a non-issue, a sing, good sized cupholder between the seats would work just fine for most people, it is far back there, but not a hassle to access and is low enough that even with the stick you're not going to knock your drink over with your elbow. Speaking of elbows, I hate cars that dont have armrests. Its not so much the place to rest my arm, its the storage thats useful. This car has very little interior storage, other than the decent sized glovebox. Outward visibility is an absolute bitch (on the 3-door, the 5-door is just fine) and access to the rear seat is tight. The trunk seems to be of a useful shape and size.

Verdict: A nice car, for sure, but for just under $21,000? Nope.

[PurdueGuy]

I think they're introducing a dealer option armrest soon, though some early buyers are getting them from sellers in europe.

[regfootball]

no compact is worth 21k. no civic, no mazda 3. except maybe the GTI or mspeed. civic should be a 15k car.

[PurdueGuy]

cars are only gonna get more expensive... thank inflation and CAFE.

[Satty]

Yep, the days of the $9,995 AC/auto Cavalier are long gone.

I didn't dislike the Astra, it just needs some tweaking.

[ZL-1]

Yep, the days of the $9,995 AC/auto Cavalier are long gone.

I didn't dislike the Astra, it just needs some tweaking.

Keep in mind people in NA get the car pretty far ahead in its life cycle, so having high expectations can end in disappointment. Let's see if the DeltaII Astra makes it to the US from day one. I hope it does.

Edited February 28, 2008 by ZL-1

[Blake Noble]

I'm going to go back to Saturn of Lexington and drive that black 3-door I looked at ...

[Oracle of Delphi]

I'm going to go back to Saturn of Lexington and drive that black 3-door I looked at ...

MMMM, I love the smell of waffles in the morning. Yeah, yeah, I know it's not you, it's your zodiac sign! :rotflmao: I'd say more like your wallet! It's OK you won't be the only one that eats waffles! :AH-HA_wink:

[ocnblu]

The Volkswagen Rabbit is a better buy. You get 170 hp/170 lbs torque, along with a long list of standard features, for $15,600. The 3-door Asstra starts at $18,495, and yes, I also noticed looking over my shoulder from the driver's seat to try to see something out the back of the car is like looking into a cave, you cannot see much.

[Blake Noble]

MMMM, I love the smell of waffles in the morning. Yeah, yeah, I know it's not you, it's your zodiac sign! :rotflmao: I'd say more like your wallet! It's OK you won't be the only one that eats waffles! :AH-HA_wink:

Calm down, calm down. I can hear you stain the fly and soil the seat of your Levis all the way over here.

Don't be sure it's my wallet speaking, by the way. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited February 29, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[thegriffon]

Keep in mind people in NA get the car pretty far ahead in its life cycle, so having high expectations can end in disappointment. Let's see if the DeltaII Astra makes it to the US from day one. I hope it does.

Nope, but there will only be a short delay.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Calm down, calm down. I can hear you stain the fly and soil the seat of your Levis all the way over here.

Don't be sure it's my wallet speaking, by the way. :AH-HA_wink:

Trust me I don't think about you in that way, however when you do buy your Opel FWD, Oops I mean Saturn, I'll see if I can get a thank you card sent to you, initialed by both CPF und PCS, truly a collector's item. :AH-HA_wink:

[Blake Noble]

Trust me I don't think about you in that way, however when you do buy your Opel FWD, Oops I mean Saturn, I'll see if I can get a thank you card sent to you, initialed by both CPF und PCS, truly a collector's item. :AH-HA_wink:

:rotflmao:

You just have to love Borger's sense of humor.

[Guest aatbloke]

no compact is worth 21k. no civic, no mazda 3. except maybe the GTI or mspeed. civic should be a 15k car.

This is why the US gets so few quality C-segment machines. Since Americans generally have the "small = cheap" psyche (with one or two exceptions), then all that will happen is domestic manufacturers producing sap (Cobalt, Ion), European and Japanese marques dumbing down products (original Focus, Lancer to some extent, and now Astra) and the Koreans flooding the US market with cars the rest of the world doesn't want.

There'll be few C-segment cars for the US-market with the same materials/equipment standards the Europeans and Japanese take for granted for less than $20-21K.

Edited February 29, 2008 by aatbloke

[Guest aatbloke]

The Volkswagen Rabbit is a better buy. You get 170 hp/170 lbs torque, along with a long list of standard features, for $15,600. The 3-door Asstra starts at $18,495, and yes, I also noticed looking over my shoulder from the driver's seat to try to see something out the back of the car is like looking into a cave, you cannot see much.

You also get that awful 2.5 litre 5-cylinder lump that gets poor fuel economy and which VW has the sense not to bother peddling to anyone else on earth.

Edited February 29, 2008 by aatbloke

[CARBIZ]

no compact is worth 21k. no civic, no mazda 3. except maybe the GTI or mspeed. civic should be a 15k car.

Try paying $18k for a base Cobalt or Civic and $23k for a Cobalt 2.4 or $26k for the Si. Canadians are getting a little tired of paying .65 prices when our dollar is above par.

Sure, in my market, most people lease and our lease payments are competitive, but all the manufacturers here have to lower their stickers and stop playing games with cash credits, zero financing, etc.

[regfootball]

This is why the US gets so few quality C-segment machines. Since Americans generally have the "small = cheap" psyche (with one or two exceptions), then all that will happen is domestic manufacturers producing sap (Cobalt, Ion), European and Japanese marques dumbing down products (original Focus, Lancer to some extent, and now Astra) and the Koreans flooding the US market with cars the rest of the world doesn't want.

There'll be few C-segment cars for the US-market with the same materials/equipment standards the Europeans and Japanese take for granted for less than $20-21K.

BECAUSE AMERICANS DO NOT WANT SMALL CARS

[The O.C.]

I think, even with the weaker 1.8L engine, I'd still take an Astra XR 3-door over a Cobalt Sport (former SS) Coupe.

There's really not alot anymore to compete with it. I like the Rabbit and it's torquey 2.5L engine (yes I've driven it) and I think if I was to buy something like this, it would be a close race between a Rabbit and the Astra 3-door.

Civic Si would appeal to me.....but you are moving up in price a bit.....you can get a well-equipped (fully-loaded?) stick-shift Rabbit or Astra for around $20K.

I fell in love with the '02 Focus SVT that I had for about a year.....and would love to see a spiritual replacement for it. GTIs are close to the mark, but a bit too expensive now to compete in that "affordable" hot-hatch class.

(edit: Actually if you are deft with your utilization of VW's "build to own" you can build a Rabbit with the 170hp 2.5L engine, 5-speed manual, and hot-looking 18-inch wheels and tires with a not-overly-cheesy optional bodykit. It's not a bad alternative.)

Edited February 29, 2008 by The O.C.

[Guest aatbloke]

BECAUSE AMERICANS DO NOT WANT SMALL CARS

Then you've absolutely no reason to bitch about escalating energy prices. It's far better to be part of the solution than to be part of the problem.

[regfootball]

the solution is to use techonolgy to make what we want to drive more efficient.

to drive something you don't want or can't use is wasteful.

[CARBIZ]

There are lots of fun cars to drive that get better than 30 mpg. Just not here. Nobody is a bigger fan of gas guzzling, RWD Detroit iron than me, but when it came time to actually buy a car last year, none of the gas guzzlers were in the running. I know were the price of gas is heading, and I don't want to spend half my monthly income just to get to work. A mass of 4,000 lbs is never going to attain 50 mpg, that just a fact of physics. With the direction that engine computers, high energy ignitions, direct injection and the effeciencies of transmissions are going, I believe we will have decent, family sedans that will seat 5 and get 35+ mpg and won't take 20 minutes to get to 60 mph. But they are going to have to shed mass, too.

[A Horse With No Name]

Exactly. Like I said in another thread, all GM needs to do is put some of the majic from the CTS, Solstice, Malibu, etc. into a really killer small car. The Astra is an enormous step in the right direction.

Chris

[Guest aatbloke]

the solution is to use techonolgy to make what we want to drive more efficient.

to drive something you don't want or can't use is wasteful.

When you end up paying $6/gallon and more, I think you'll find your comments to be somewhat meaningless.

[regfootball]

OHMYGOD GLOOM AND DOOM GLOOM AND DOOM

besides, when mpg goes up, so will the price of gas. we are getting charged for gas what exxon thinks we will pay. once price resistance is met, watch it go back down. this is all about exxon etc. maximizing profit. once GWB exits office, watch the price drop too. Heck, right before the election, we will see prices drop so that issue is less in the minds of voters.

if exxon figures it can only get 500 bucks a month out of people's pocketbooks before demand suffers, then that is where the price will be (assuming the feds dont add more taxes). If exxon thought they would be able to get 800/mo out of Joe Average's checkbook a month, they would be trying to do that right now.

If 1/2 our country starts driving Prius, then heck yeah gas will go up to 6 bucks. maybe more.

and families still will not want to have small family cars. small cars work for singles. you won't see family of four driving around in cobalts en masse. they will let their legislators know about it and when votes are threatened, phone calls will be made, and wham prices will moderate to a level that does not break people's backs.

[Guest aatbloke]

OHMYGOD GLOOM AND DOOM GLOOM AND DOOM

besides, when mpg goes up, so will the price of gas. we are getting charged for gas what exxon thinks we will pay. once price resistance is met, watch it go back down. this is all about exxon etc. maximizing profit. once GWB exits office, watch the price drop too. Heck, right before the election, we will see prices drop so that issue is less in the minds of voters.

if exxon figures it can only get 500 bucks a month out of people's pocketbooks before demand suffers, then that is where the price will be (assuming the feds dont add more taxes). If exxon thought they would be able to get 800/mo out of Joe Average's checkbook a month, they would be trying to do that right now.

If 1/2 our country starts driving Prius, then heck yeah gas will go up to 6 bucks. maybe more.

and families still will not want to have small family cars. small cars work for singles. you won't see family of four driving around in cobalts en masse. they will let their legislators know about it and when votes are threatened, phone calls will be made, and wham prices will moderate to a level that does not break people's backs.

All fine and dandy, except you're missing one pretty significant issue - supply and demand. Emerging economies such as India and China are creating soaring global demand while the rate at which accessible new reserves are being located is in decline. This spells an ongoing upward trend.

If the rest of the world can deal with many families driving around in fuel-efficient Cobalt sized vehicles en masse, then so can Americans. If they can't, they deserve to pay extra than the rest of the world for that privilege.

The choice is yours. Acting like a pillock about it though will get you nowhere.

Edited March 2, 2008 by aatbloke

[regfootball]

wow you are a big time pessimist you have no faith in our ability to get things done.

its been proven over and over, Americans only gravitate to small cars when forced by finances. By nature they do not like to get small cars.

Edited March 1, 2008 by regfootball

[Guest aatbloke]

wow you are a big time pessimist you have no faith in our ability to get things done.

its been proven over and over, Americans only gravitate to small cars when forced by finances. By nature they do not like to get small cars.

Big time pessimist? Perhaps the fact that both Honda and Toyota have both produced mainstream family hybrids for sale globally now for a decade - while the United States hasn't - veers me towards that opinion.

Still, there's a price to be paid in the end.

[regfootball]

LOL what are you smoking. please help to understand what 'honda family hybrid' you are talking about? the insight is a pop can for 2 (and a tight one, not for a family) and the accord hybrid not only had poor performance, it was expensive, got bad mpg, and got cancelled because NO ONE WOULD BUY ONE.

oh, i get it. you figured you could cram a kid or two under the hatchback. a little tight sure, as long as timmy doesn't mind NO SEAT BELT NO SEAT And having his face pressed against the glass.

"Brace yourself Timmy! there's a bump up ahead!!!!"

ford escape hybrid, now there is a legitimate family vehicle.

Edited March 1, 2008 by regfootball

[ZL-1]

Nope, but there will only be a short delay.

If it's just a few months, that's cool!

[Snate]

Regular market forces will make the decisions much easier. Gas will most likely crest $4 a gallon this summer and its only a matter of a few years before it hits $5. Even if people started driving less in the U.S. the excess supply would most likely be gobbled up in other areas of the world.

So in a nutshell, people are either going to be financial forced into smaller/more fuel efficient cars...or they are going to be rich.

[pow]

I'd love somebody to design a concept that reinvents the family car. Call it the Camry, Accord, Malibu, or whatever of 2020, but make it radically different from the space inefficient sedans we have now. Let consumers and the media see the possibilities of thinking outside the box. Execute it well, and then market a desire and need for such a vehicle. We need another "segment buster"..

[A Horse With No Name]

OHMYGOD GLOOM AND DOOM GLOOM AND DOOM

besides, when mpg goes up, so will the price of gas. we are getting charged for gas what exxon thinks we will pay. once price resistance is met, watch it go back down. this is all about exxon etc. maximizing profit. once GWB exits office, watch the price drop too. Heck, right before the election, we will see prices drop so that issue is less in the minds of voters.

if exxon figures it can only get 500 bucks a month out of people's pocketbooks before demand suffers, then that is where the price will be (assuming the feds dont add more taxes). If exxon thought they would be able to get 800/mo out of Joe Average's checkbook a month, they would be trying to do that right now.

If 1/2 our country starts driving Prius, then heck yeah gas will go up to 6 bucks. maybe more.

and families still will not want to have small family cars. small cars work for singles. you won't see family of four driving around in cobalts en masse. they will let their legislators know about it and when votes are threatened, phone calls will be made, and wham prices will moderate to a level that does not break people's backs.

We are out of the ordinary, but we usually cruise around in two small cars because with 5 children, at least two of them are usually going opposite directions.

We need families of four to drove Cobalts and Astras en masse, weather they want to or not.

And it isn't all envoronmental gloom and doom. Every time I buy gas I support a religion that I despise and people that hate me.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I'd love somebody to design a concept that reinvents the family car. Call it the Camry, Accord, Malibu, or whatever of 2020, but make it radically different from the space inefficient sedans we have now. Let consumers and the media see the possibilities of thinking outside the box. Execute it well, and then market a desire and need for such a vehicle. We need another "segment buster"..

Actually earlier versions of the Malibu, Accord, Camry, Etc. were in some ways more space efficient. A newer, more space efficient version shouldn't be difficult.

Which, getting back to the Astra is what I like about the Astra.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

LOL what are you smoking. please help to understand what 'honda family hybrid' you are talking about? the insight is a pop can for 2 (and a tight one, not for a family) and the accord hybrid not only had poor performance, it was expensive, got bad mpg, and got cancelled because NO ONE WOULD BUY ONE.

oh, i get it. you figured you could cram a kid or two under the hatchback. a little tight sure, as long as timmy doesn't mind NO SEAT BELT NO SEAT And having his face pressed against the glass.

"Brace yourself Timmy! there's a bump up ahead!!!!"

ford escape hybrid, now there is a legitimate family vehicle.

I will agree with you here, even though I am going off topic. The Escape Hybrid is brilliant.

Chris

[Guest aatbloke]

LOL what are you smoking. please help to understand what 'honda family hybrid' you are talking about? the insight is a pop can for 2 (and a tight one, not for a family) and the accord hybrid not only had poor performance, it was expensive, got bad mpg, and got cancelled because NO ONE WOULD BUY ONE.

oh, i get it. you figured you could cram a kid or two under the hatchback. a little tight sure, as long as timmy doesn't mind NO SEAT BELT NO SEAT And having his face pressed against the glass.

"Brace yourself Timmy! there's a bump up ahead!!!!"

ford escape hybrid, now there is a legitimate family vehicle.

Honda's Civic IMA hybrid sedan and Toyota's Prius are the two family saloon cars I am referring to. Granted, if your family weights two tonnes a piece and lives on a constant diet of McDonalds and other such rubbish, then yes you would have some space problems. Ford's Escape is a legitimate family vehicle, but unfortunately it and its sister Mazda Tribute failed in many global markets. For starters, it wasn't particularly well built. Ironically, the hybrid model uses patented Toyota technology licenced to Ford.

Like I said, wait until you're paying upwards of $6/gallon. You may think that'll never happen, but you'd be wrong. It's not a case of if, but when. Then again, five years ago Americans would never have dreamed that parts of the country would now be seeing $4/gallon plus. In the past year alone bulk oil prices have doubled, but don't kid yourself into thinking the march upwards can't continue.

Like I said, it's easy to bury your head in the sand and act like a pillock about it. I've spent enough years in the motor industry to understand the reality.

Edited March 2, 2008 by aatbloke

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually as an aside I have a friend whose family is rather large and they all fit rather well in a Prius.

...and aatabloke, your right, $6 a gallon is coming.

Chris

[Oracle of Delphi]

Actually as an aside I have a friend whose family is rather large and they all fit rather well in a Prius.

...and aatabloke, your right, $6 a gallon is coming.

Chris

Oh yes it is, welcome to Europe's prices. :AH-HA_wink:

[GMTruckGuy74]

Acting like a twat about it though will get you nowhere.

Like I said, it's easy to bury your head in the sand and act like a twat about it. I've spent enough years in the motor industry to understand the reality.

As a moderator here at C&G, I am going to kindly ask you not to use adjectives such as what I've bolded in your two replies above. It will only encourage others to respond to you in similar fashion and it does not bode well for your level of maturity. I will thank you in advance for your compliance.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Oh, $4+per gallon of gas is for sure coming soon. As barrels of oil continue to trade at prices above $100 (I believe it recently went as high as $102/barrel), the cost for the consumer is sure to come much sooner than many of us would like. At this time, I would like to make a special note to both the US Dept of the Interior and the the Dept of Tourism - get ready for your "gloom and doom" reports. As gas prices increase, consumers that have to watch their gas costs (i.e. lower & middle class Americans that live paycheck-to-paycheck and need the extra $$$ just to be able to get to work) will be cutting back on their frivilous holiday/vacation travels. Not only have I reconsidered my decision to purchase a full-size pickup next year, I am already planning cutbacks on travels this year - including family trips, car shows, and business trips that I pay out of pocket for. While I am not ready to make a mini-car purchase, and don't forsee it anytime soon - I'll be one of the few that will sacrifice travel due to the rising gas costs. Let's see how Las Vegas, the Disney World Resorts, shore towns, and many other tourist attractions handle the loss of revenues because of similar people like me cutting back due to rising fuel costs. Maybe when business owners feel the pinch, legislators in Washington will react.

[Guest aatbloke]

As a moderator here at C&G, I am going to kindly ask you not to use adjectives such as what I've bolded in your two replies above. It will only encourage others to respond to you in similar fashion and it does not bode well for your level of maturity. I will thank you in advance for your compliance.

Thank you for your concern. Firstly, the word is a noun in this case, not an adjective.

I wasn't making direct reference to the poster, I was speaking in the third party - "if you want to act" being "if one wants to act" and a coloquialism. That's what differentiates it from mere directed slander.

Here in Britain, the use of such words has no bearing on the level of an individual's maturity; they are used to enforce a point in a common-or-garden, down-to-earth manner using our unique brand of subtle ironic humour. With respect, I occasionally forget how Americans are far more direct and straight-laced in their use of language, obvious in their use of humour, and puritanical in their beliefs - as evidenced often by their television shows - so I can see how such verbiage there would be viewed simply as trite teenage vulgarity. My apologies for the evident misunderstanding and in the interests of Anglo-American détante, I've edited both posts concerned!

Edited March 2, 2008 by aatbloke

[Oracle of Delphi]

Where in the UK are you from? I've been to London, Newcastle (have even picked up some Geordie), Manchester, Liverpool, Coventry, and Bath. I have also been to Scotland and Wales too.

[regfootball]

UK folks are generally sour on US folk, in addition to not quite getting how US families pack up and go on trips that mean cargo area is required. Since you can cross the UK in a short amount of time, its no wonder one could be lulled into thinking something as fragile and piddly as a prius would be adequate for trips. I'd love to see a prius make it through a blizzard without getting blown off the road. Or be capable of handling 2 adults, 3 kids, and pack k plays, strollers, tents, coolers, luggage, christmas presents, bicycles, etc. just goes to show someone who doesn't understand how families like to travel.

how bout 2 adults and 4-6 kids and their hockey gear travelling to tournaments?

[Guest aatbloke]

UK folks are generally sour on US folk, in addition to not quite getting how US families pack up and go on trips that mean cargo area is required. Since you can cross the UK in a short amount of time, its no wonder one could be lulled into thinking something as fragile and piddly as a prius would be adequate for trips. I'd love to see a prius make it through a blizzard without getting blown off the road. Or be capable of handling 2 adults, 3 kids, and pack k plays, strollers, tents, coolers, luggage, christmas presents, bicycles, etc. just goes to show someone who doesn't understand how families like to travel.

how bout 2 adults and 4-6 kids and their hockey gear travelling to tournaments?

Ah, the old "USA is bigger" mentality chestnut. I have to smile at the ignorance but then again, having lived over there for eight years I did come across quite a bit of the same naivety. Many Europeans drive across the continent; go to Greece and you'll fine a plethora of UK registered cars there as you will anywhere else around continental Europe. But is it necessary to have a vehicle to size of Vermont powered by the engine of the QE2? Er, no. Caravanning is a big British pastime particularly, and many caravanners will haul their machines around France and Spain for the annual family holiday. But do those people need a Chieftain tank? No again.

As for the rest of us, with superb budget airlines such as easyJet, Ryanair, Volare and the likes you can hop around Europe by plane for next to nothing these days.

But yes, hauling no fewer than six children and their ice hockey paraphernalia is everyday stuff, even for Americans ... and strangely enough, of all the winters I spent in north eastern Ohio, the only vehicles I saw being towed out of ditches or being placed upright after rolling over in snowstorms were all large SUVs and trucks, driven by idiots who thought that three tonnes of pig-iron plus four-wheel-drive can allow them to weave around traffic at 70mph in three inches of snow and make them somehow impervious to accidents, all while rather carelessly forgetting (or not knowing in the first place) that they had a much higher centre of gravity than anybody else.

Ultimately, when oil hits $200 a barrel, who's going to be up the creek without a paddle? The Prius driver or the Expedition driver? Hardly rocket science.

Last of all, I'm curious as to how people in the UK are "sour on US folk." What a bizarre statement.

Edited March 3, 2008 by aatbloke

[Guest aatbloke]

Where in the UK are you from? I've been to London, Newcastle (have even picked up some Geordie), Manchester, Liverpool, Coventry, and Bath. I have also been to Scotland and Wales too.

Weybridge, Surrey. Family ancestry in Scotland

[Oracle of Delphi]

Weybridge, Surrey. Family ancestry in Scotland

Fancy that, I am in my niece's wedding in July, she is marrying a Scot and we will all be dressed in Scottish Kilts. The wedding is in Edinburgh. I'm thinking of driving from Switzerland where I live now, in my Pontiac Grand Prix GXP, come July.

[haypops]

Last of all, I'm curious as to how people in the UK are "sour on US folk." What a bizarre statement.

Don't take offense at what Reg says. You should read what he says about California. :AH-HA_wink:

[Guest aatbloke]

Fancy that, I am in my niece's wedding in July, she is marrying a Scot and we will all be dressed in Scottish Kilts. The wedding is in Edinburgh. I'm thinking of driving from Switzerland where I live now, in my Pontiac Grand Prix GXP, come July.

A kilt wedding is great fun, but I hope it isn't a windy day! A pan-continental drive will also make it an event worth look forward to.

[Guest aatbloke]

Don't take offense at what Reg says. You should read what he says about California. :AH-HA_wink:

No worries. The last think I expected when we were in San Francisco was fog shrouding the Golden Gate ... talk about a piece of England!

[Z-06]

A kilt wedding is great fun, but I hope it isn't a windy day! A pan-continental drive will also make it an event worth look forward to. OR NOT

[Guest aatbloke]

"OR NOT"

Your rationale being? Assuming there even is one?