CNN / Money rips ASTRA

[CARBIZ]

astra should have a 180hp 2.4 option so it can be fun 0-60 in nearly 9 seconds is not fun

Perhaps, but at $4.40 a gallon (what we are paying as of today up here) and with ever tightening 'carbon taxes' looming, 0-60 in 9 seconds may very soon seem like a luxury. I think my (then) new Rampage was around the 12 second mark in 0-60 back in '83 and I am still here.

[regfootball]

Perhaps, but at $4.40 a gallon (what we are paying as of today up here) and with ever tightening 'carbon taxes' looming, 0-60 in 9 seconds may very soon seem like a luxury. I think my (then) new Rampage was around the 12 second mark in 0-60 back in '83 and I am still here.

i think after the US election this fall, all the whacko leftists will move on to trying to extort their agenda on Obama. i think they will finally be up to using their media force tactics on things they think they would then have an easy time with that they haven't been able to do under bush, universal heath care, ending iraq, raising taxes, etc. and they will turn away from this global warming BS big time.

they only put so much effort into GW now because they don't have an actual opponent standing in their way, like if they were trying to fight a war. instead, they are fighting a cause. They inventing the big green thing to pacify their need to fight something until they feel they can get a like minded individual in office to ride on bigger issues.

point being, i think some of this incessant crap about taking down the auto industry will go away some I think.

and trust me. if anyone ever tries to go big time with 'carbon taxes' you will begin to see REAL SERIOUS resistance from the really money folks in this country. they will not let that happen.

Edited February 22, 2008 by regfootball

[Guest aatbloke]

"Anyone who gets 20 mpg (American) with the Cobalt would have to be doing brake stands!" "Having driven the Cobalt on and off for the past 3 years, I managed to average 29 mpg (Imperial), with mostly city and some city highway driving."

29mpg imperial translates to about 24.6mpg US, which would make sense if there's some highway driving involved because it benefits from the power-to-weight ratio.

A 2 litre Focus gets around 22-23mpg (US) in strict urban driving. A Cobalt's 2.2 I'd imagine would be less, between 19 and 22mpg tops, and given your 24.6mpg US with a combined usage but leaning towards urban use, then those estimates would stand to reason. That said, it would be a huge improvement over the old Cavalier's unit - I rented several there and saw no more than 17-19mpg (US) in town. I'm aware from owners of the latest Lancer that they see no more than 22-23mpg in urban driving from its 2 litre MIVEC.

Edited February 22, 2008 by aatbloke

[CARBIZ]

"Anyone who gets 20 mpg (American) with the Cobalt would have to be doing brake stands!" "Having driven the Cobalt on and off for the past 3 years, I managed to average 29 mpg (Imperial), with mostly city and some city highway driving."

29mpg imperial translates to about 24.6mpg US, which would make sense if there's some highway driving involved because it benefits from the power-to-weight ratio.

A 2 litre Focus gets around 22-23mpg (US) in strict urban driving. A Cobalt's 2.2 I'd imagine would be less, between 19 and 22mpg tops, and given your 24.6mpg US with a combined usage but leaning towards urban use, then those estimates would stand to reason. That said, it would be a huge improvement over the old Cavalier's unit - I rented several there and saw no more than 17-19mpg (US) in town. I'm aware from owners of the latest Lancer that they see no more than 22-23mpg in urban driving from its 2 litre MIVEC.

You're forgetting a major factor in the over all efficiency of a powertrain: the transmission. Why would the Impala be at the top of its class in fuel economy with the 3.4 engine (I'm talking the last generation), while the Alero with the same motor got atrocious mileage: the transmission gears and programming. I actually was getting better mileage with the heavier and larger Malibu a couple years ago than with the Cobalt, which had the same 2.2 motor. Go figure.

GMNA's automatics are just so damned efficient. That also explains why my current Optra (which does not have a GM-built tranny) gets comparably worse mileage than the more powerful Cobalt. Every driver is different, to be sure, but I have changed my cars on average every 4 -5 months for the past 11 years. One of the first things I do when I get a 'new' vehicle that I am unfamiliar with, is top the tank up, zero out the odometer and run at least two tanks to see what kind of mileage and range I can get. This has also proven to be effective when customers whine and bitch about how 'poor' their mileage is. I can get an extra 50km on a tank in the Spring/Fall than what I would get right now when the temperature dips to - 10 celsius regularly.

Hell, I remember I bought a 13 year old K-car (as a winter beater) a few years back and was appalled that it was getting 25 mpg! It was gutless (0-60 probably measured in hours) and had horrible mileage, but it was ancient (although in immaculate shape) and had a ghastly old 3 spd automatic. I also had a Mazda Protege with a stick that got horrible gas mileage, but then the way that vehicle was geared, the tach was spinning at 3,500 rpm at 110 km/hr! No wonder the mileage was awful. The Cobalt auto, by comparison, will sit at a much more leisurely 2,400 rpm at 110.

[Guest aatbloke]

"You're forgetting a major factor in the over all efficiency of a powertrain: the transmission. Why would the Impala be at the top of its class in fuel economy with the 3.4 engine (I'm talking the last generation), while the Alero with the same motor got atrocious mileage: the transmission gears and programming. I actually was getting better mileage with the heavier and larger Malibu a couple years ago than with the Cobalt, which had the same 2.2 motor. Go figure."

Trust me, I'm not forgetting anything. Of course gearing is very important. But your observed Cobalt fuel consumption figures have basically corroborated what I was saying all along.

[Cory Wolfe]

Perhaps, but at $4.40 a gallon (what we are paying as of today up here) and with ever tightening 'carbon taxes' looming, 0-60 in 9 seconds may very soon seem like a luxury. I think my (then) new Rampage was around the 12 second mark in 0-60 back in '83 and I am still here.

12? Hell... I'm lucky if I can hit 60 in 16 seconds, all the while getting 8 mpg.

Edited February 22, 2008 by blackviper8891

[RjION]

I don't drink and drive so cup holders don't hold any cups for me. They do hold change and other things.

The 1.8L engine is the main thing I do not like and that alone will keep me from buying the car, and my 2.4L auto ION sedan is averaging 26.79 in town.

Having an armrest/console is a must for me

Other quirks are easy to get used to

The standard display to some is ugly and to me not needed.

Edited February 24, 2008 by RjION

[Blake Noble]

The Aura needed an oil change yesterday, so, while I was at the Saturn dealership, I looked at a three-door Astra XR with a five-speed manual, 18 inch wheels, and painted in good old black. It was like someone sent one down to Saturn of Lexington spec'd out the way I would buy one, trying to sway me away from my love of rear-drive cars with V6 engines (or larger).

I must say, after checking it out, I'm actually a little smitten with it. There's something about it that I like that I can't put my finger on. And I find this odd because, well, I hate compact cars with front-wheel drive.

Would I put money down for one? I don't know. Before, I would have given a resounding "Hell no!" but ... as I sat there in it, it managed to click with me, the low seating position, the feel of the shift knob in my palm, the seeming feeling of a high beltline. The Camaro comes out in less than a year, and the car I looked at stickered at nineteen-grand. The Camaro probably won't sticker much more than that, so ...

I'll admit, this is quite confusing to a guy who hates front-drive cars and pretty much swore up and down that he wasn't going to buy one for his first new car. But now ... I guess it's sort of like trying on your wife's little red dress, liking it, and then realizing that you might want to be a woman. It's scary.

I'm itching for a test drive now, pretty bad.

Edited February 25, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[FAPTurbo]

The Aura needed an oil change yesterday, so, while I was at the Saturn dealership, I looked at a black, three-door Astra XR with a five-speed manual, 18 inch wheels, and painted in good old black. It was like someone sent one down to Saturn of Lexington spec'd out the way I would buy one, trying to sway me away from my love of rear-drive cars with V6 engines (or larger).

I must say, after checking it out, I'm actually a little smitten with it. There's something about it that I like that I can't put my finger on. And I find this odd because, well, I hate compact cars with front-wheel drive.

Would I put money down for one? I don't know. Before, I would have given a resounding "Hell no!" but ... as I sat there in it, it managed to click with me, the low seating position, the feel of the shift knob in my palm, the seeming feeling of a high beltline. The Camaro comes out in less than a year, and the car I looked at stickered at nineteen-grand. The Camaro probably won't sticker much more than that, so ...

I'll admit, this is quite confusing to a guy who hates front-drive cars and pretty much swore up and down that he wasn't going to buy one for his first new car. But now ... I guess it's sort of like trying on your wife's little red dress, liking it, and then realizing that you might want to be a woman. It's scary.

I'm itching for a test drive now, pretty bad.

Aren't you the leader of the 'RWD Mafia'? I smell mutiny.

[Blake Noble]

Aren't you the leader of the 'RWD Mafia'? I smell mutiny.

[Oracle of Delphi]

The Aura needed an oil change yesterday, so, while I was at the Saturn dealership, I looked at a black, three-door Astra XR with a five-speed manual, 18 inch wheels, and painted in good old black. It was like someone sent one down to Saturn of Lexington spec'd out the way I would buy one, trying to sway me away from my love of rear-drive cars with V6 engines (or larger).

I must say, after checking it out, I'm actually a little smitten with it. There's something about it that I like that I can't put my finger on. And I find this odd because, well, I hate compact cars with front-wheel drive.

Would I put money down for one? I don't know. Before, I would have given a resounding "Hell no!" but ... as I sat there in it, it managed to click with me, the low seating position, the feel of the shift knob in my palm, the seeming feeling of a high beltline. The Camaro comes out in less than a year, and the car I looked at stickered at nineteen-grand. The Camaro probably won't sticker much more than that, so ...

I'll admit, this is quite confusing to a guy who hates front-drive cars and pretty much swore up and down that he wasn't going to buy one for his first new car. But now ... I guess it's sort of like trying on your wife's little red dress, liking it, and then realizing that you might want to be a woman. It's scary.

I'm itching for a test drive now, pretty bad.

What about the Camaro, I smell waffling, and I don't mean the kind that comes with Maple syrup either!

Edited February 24, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Blake Noble]

What about the Camaro, I smell waffling, and I don't mean the kind that comes with Maple syrup either!

Knew I'd eventually hear your opinion on everything.

Well, I'm a Libra, and, thusly acute indecision is a disease I'm apt to battle with from time to time. So don't blame me, blame my nature.

But, oh, I don't know, the Astra and Camaro are apples and oranges and I don't suspect that the eventual, possible back to back test drive will have the Astra come out on top.

Edited February 25, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[GMTruckGuy74]

What about the Camaro, I smell waffling, and I don't mean the kind that comes with Maple syrup either!

Oh, I do like the way the G5 GT coupe looks and I'm sure it gets up pretty well and rides nice... BUT, when the time to buy comes, would I decide to plunk my money down on the G5 over the G8 GT? I really don't think so :AH-HA_wink:

[sciguy_0504]

The picture of the Ion interior made me laugh and cover my eyes at the same time.

[MyerShift]

CUPHOLDERS?! What a lame reason not to choose or like an automobile!

I've driven two cars with NO that's 0 cupholders folks. One with one, one with four, and another (my current- a 2008 Volkswagen Golf (Rabbit)) has three with those crazy bottle holders in the doors for a technical total of 5.

Cars With No Cupholders:

1987 Buick Skyhawk (I don't count those circles molded into the glovebox lid; they don't count)

1993 Chrysler LeBaron Convertible

Cars With One Cupholder:

1997 Chevrolet Monte Carlo Z34

Cars With Four CH:

1996 Plymouth Breeze

Cars with Three CH:

2008 Volkswagen Golf

No one needs cupholders, they are a minor convenience item to me.

[siegen]

No one needs cupholders, they are a minor convenience item to me.

No one needs anything really, including cars. How much of a convenience cup holders are will vary from person to person. Given it is a design feature that certainly doesn't cost much, and doesn't have a negative impact on the interior as long as it is designed well, there is no reason not to include at least one cup holder per occupant. Wouldn't that seem logical?

[Croc]

I need cupholders. And a lot of them. It's funny, the biggest complaint I have with my 2001 Aurora is the poorly-designed cupholders (they let condensation fall on the console right where the seat heater switches are).

It's not a huge annoyance, but one of those "geez, how was this not caught during testing?" issues.

That said, considering that's my biggest complaint with the thing, it's a damn good car.

[A Horse With No Name]

Oh, I do like the way the G5 GT coupe looks and I'm sure it gets up pretty well and rides nice... BUT, when the time to buy comes, would I decide to plunk my money down on the G5 over the G8 GT? I really don't think so :AH-HA_wink:

G8 Gt is a sweet ride, if I could afford one it would be in the garage...

Chris

[daves87rs]

I need cupholders. And a lot of them. It's funny, the biggest complaint I have with my 2001 Aurora is the poorly-designed cupholders (they let condensation fall on the console right where the seat heater switches are).

It's not a huge annoyance, but one of those "geez, how was this not caught during testing?" issues.

That said, considering that's my biggest complaint with the thing, it's a damn good car.

It's funny you say that..

If I get a decent size drink in the Cobalt, the cup rests right against the ac/heat switch. Then I had to make a quick stop-and it dripped out on the switch...left me thinking why someone would put cupholder that close....

[Robert Hall]

It's funny you say that..

If I get a decent size drink in the Cobalt, the cup rests right against the ac/heat switch. Then I had to make a quick stop-and it dripped out on the switch...left me thinking why someone would put cupholder that close....

In my Jeep, the cupholders are right behind the two shifty thingys... with a loose-fitting cup of coffee or bottle of water, I know I've spilled content into the shifty thingys over the years several times when I've had to make a hard stop or go over a bump. The tranny and xfer case seem to still work ok, though..

[daves87rs]

In my Jeep, the cupholders are right behind the two shifty thingys... with a loose-fitting cup of coffee or bottle of water, I know I've spilled content into the shifty thingys over the years several times when I've had to make a hard stop or go over a bump. The tranny and xfer case seem to still work ok, though..

I hoping so..

It would suck not having ac during the summer....

[A Horse With No Name]

In my 66 Mustang Fastback, I dumped HOT HOT HOT coffee all over myself once, no cupholders.

In our Safari van my teenage daughter was driving and she got on the gas a little hard, the HOT HOT HOT coffee still went right on my lap. Even with cupholders.

Either way I get screwed!

Or rather, not for about 4 days after until I had healed up... in both cases.

Maybe like the Astra ad says I shouldn't mix multi tasking and driving.

Chris

Edited April 10, 2008 by 66Stang

[SuperSport623]

no cupholders in the nova, my legs get to hold a drink... not always fun with an ice cold or scalding hot drink...

[Robert Hall]

In my 66 Mustang Fastback, I dumped HOT HOT HOT coffee all over myself once, no cupholders.

Maybe like the Astra ad says I shouldn't mix multi tasking and driving.

Chris

So true... I learned long ago with my '87 Mustang GT that driving, shifting, drinking coffee, eating a bagel and talking on the phone at the same time is difficult. That car has no cupholders either. I had one of those craptastic cheapo ones that hung on the door.

[daves87rs]

In my 66 Mustang Fastback, I dumped HOT HOT HOT coffee all over myself once, no cupholders.

In our Safari van my teenage daughter was driving and she got on the gas a little hard, the HOT HOT HOT coffee still went right on my lap. Even with cupholders.

Either way I get screwed!

Or rather, not for about 4 days after until I had healed up... in both cases.

Maybe like the Astra ad says I shouldn't mix multi tasking and driving.

Chris

Ow!

[MyerShift]

No one needs anything really, including cars. How much of a convenience cup holders are will vary from person to person. Given it is a design feature that certainly doesn't cost much, and doesn't have a negative impact on the interior as long as it is designed well, there is no reason not to include at least one cup holder per occupant. Wouldn't that seem logical?

Smartest thing I've heard in a long time.

A cupholder for each person although technically makes sense, isn't really purposeful as the car is generally used for one person: the driver. More often than not, people drive alone. I'm not counting families for which the parents need to find a "new hobby" obviously.

[daves87rs]

Smartest thing I've heard in a long time.

A cupholder for each person although technically makes sense, isn't really purposeful as the car is generally used for one person: the driver. More often than not, people drive alone. I'm not counting families for which the parents need to find a "new hobby" obviously.

I guess it would depend on the car too...

While a minivan may need a dozen cupholders, a G5 might only need two.

I think a lot depends on the car's purpose.

[ocnblu]

If someone buys a case of beer for a Friday night blowout at the trailer, there should be a cupholder for each can of Pabst Blue Ribbon in the Iroc. Anything less is just so inconvenient.

[regfootball]

Tapping a retro market

By TOM DAYKIN, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

April 18, 2008

MILWAUKEE - The beer that made Milwaukee famous hopes to stage a comeback by returning to a brewing formula discarded more than 30 years ago.

Schlitz had been available only in cans for several years until the brand's owner, Pabst Brewing Co., began selling it in bottles last year in the Twin Cities and Tampa, Fla.

That bottled version of Schlitz, which uses a traditional recipe last used in the early '70s, is aimed at older baby boomers who remember the beer from its glory days, before Jos. Schlitz Brewing Co. cheapened the formula.

This month, 10 Chicago taverns and liquor stores began carrying the bottled version.

The "new" brew, dubbed Schlitz "Classic 1960s Formula," carries a more "full-bodied taste," with a bit more flavoring from hops than Schlitz in cans, which remains unchanged, said Kyle Wortham, a brand manager at Pabst, based in suburban Chicago.

"It tastes like a real beer," Wortham said about classic Schlitz.

In the Twin Cities, a highly unscientific survey Friday found that out of three liquor stores surveyed, one carried bottled Schlitz: the Cellars in Roseville.

So far, sales have been disappointing, said Rod Olson, manager of the store. Olson began carrying the beer last summer, and in the first two months, despite prominent in-store displays, he sold only a case and a half -- three 12-packs.

Part of the problem, he said, is Pabst's pricing. At $9.99 for a 12-pack and $5.99 for a six-pack, it's more expensive than Budweiser, about the same as Michelob and almost as expensive as more upscale brews such as Samuel Adams. "It's just overpriced," he said.

Unlike most beers, classic Schlitz isn't being marketed to people ages 21 to 35, who buy more than half the beer sold nationwide.

Instead, Pabst is selling bottled Schlitz as a sudsy comfort food for men in their 50s and early 60s. Those drinkers mostly came of age in the 1960s, when Schlitz was advertised as the beer with "gusto."

A series of Web-based ads, which can be viewed at schlitzgusto.com, feature a man in his 50s. Each spot provides a definition of gusto.

One ad shows a bar scene with a 20-something looking at his cell phone, as the narrator says gusto is "instant messaging -- face to face." The young man then moves aside to show two baby boomers yukking it up at the bar over a couple of beers.

The tag line for the ads: "Go for the gusto. Your Schlitz is back."

Can enough older drinkers be lured back to Schlitz to make the brand's relaunch worth the investment?

Pabst Brewing, which counts Old Style, Old Milwaukee and Pabst Blue Ribbon among its lineup of inexpensive beer brands, has seen sales volume erode for several years.

Last year, Pabst Brewing sold 6.1 million barrels, down 6.2 percent from 6.5 million barrels in 2006, according to trade publication Beer Marketer's Insights. In 2000, Pabst sold 10.8 million barrels.

Separate sales figures for Schlitz were not available, but the trends for most mainstream, full-calorie beers are not promising. The cheaper versions of those full-calorie beers -- brands such as Schlitz, Milwaukee's Best and Busch -- have seen sales drop a combined 18.9 percent over the past five years, according to Beer Marketer's Insights.

But Schlitz has its devotees who appreciate the traditional recipe, said Jerry Glunz, general manager of Louis Glunz Beer Inc., a Chicago-area wholesale distributor. Glunz Beer used a horse-drawn wagon Monday -- the 75th anniversary of the end of prohibition on beer in America -- to deliver classic Schlitz to bars and liquor stores in the city's Lakeview neighborhood and found 20 people waiting at the first stop.

People in their 50s and 60s still drink a lot of mainstream beer, he said.

"They're not looking for microbrews, they're not looking for imports," said Glunz, who plans to expand sales of classic Schlitz throughout Chicago.

Pabst's approach is a good idea, said Harry Schumacher, who operates Beer Business Daily, an Internet-based trade report.

"They have nothing to lose," Schumacher said. "It's not a big financial outlay. If it works, there could be a huge upside. If it doesn't work, they'll likely sell some beer anyway."

Staff writer Casey Common contributed to this report.

© 2008 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.

Edited April 21, 2008 by regfootball