09 ACURA RL

[Robert Hall]

I know, I don't see any point in comparing Mazda to Acura. There is the one obvious comparison, and that is the CX-7 and RDX, mainly because they are similar in size and powerplant. But they are very different and compete in different segments. Reg likes to compare the two brands a lot though.

The S2000 is similar to the RX8 in that it is about handling and balance, except it takes it to a much higher level. The RX8 has a back seat, adding the extra weight, which puts it at a disadvantage. However, the S2000 is a convertible, adding weight and putting it at a disadvantage to hard tops.

The S2000, though, being a 2 seater convertible, is a pure sports car, by definition. The RX8 is a nice sports coupe. I wouldn't compare them, kind of an apples-to-oranges thing..

[Cory Wolfe]

The RX8 has been overrated from the start.

Here I found a nice video (all manual transmissions).

The late Integra Type R (RSX Type S) even beat it. The '00-'04 S2000 left it in the dust. I wouldn't even want to see it up against an S2000 CR on the track. That would be embarrassing.

In an actual MT comparison between the RX8 and S2000 (and the 350Z) back in 2004, it certainly wasn't far behind and actually won the comparison with the S2000 finishing last. I won't back Reg's silly argument, but the RX8 deserves more merit than alot of people will give it.

2004 S2000 vs 2004 RX8

0-60......... 5.8 . vs 6.0

1/4 mi...... 14.19 @ 99 vs 14.49 @ 95

100-0....... 338 vs 318

60-0........ 118 vs 115

Slalom..... 68.6 vs 68.1

Skidpad... .90 vs .87

Figure 8.... 26.0 @ .71 vs 26.1 @ .70

Yeah, the S2000 sure does spank it...

I agree with it being an apples to oranges comparison, though. Ones a two seat roadster that starts at $35k and the other is a four door, four seat sports coupe that starts at $27k. The S2000 should spank it, even if it barely does in reality, especially for the added cost.

Edited February 14, 2008 by blackviper8891

[Cory Wolfe]

Yeah those cars were built like rocks. It is possibly the last 90's Honda that continued unchanged in production until 2004, alongside the NSX. Honda wasn't Honda anymore after they dumped the double-wishbone suspension, the classical Honda interior materials, and switchgear, and the bullet-proof reliability. Now, my mechanic tells me, that most Hondas, after 2000 MY are not what they used to be. Esp, after Honda introduced the new 5 speed automatic transmission, it's been having major problems. It's gotten so bad with their new trannys that this was opened: http://www.hondatransmissionsettlement.com

Anyway, I'm currently car hunting for my mom, she needs a nice car to replace her rusting, high mileage 94 Accord. I was seriously considering a 99-04 3.5 RL, like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-3-5RLC...tem330211230942

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Leather-Sun...tem320216352882

Black on black preferably

What do you think BlackViper?

Well, I more or less meant before the MCE, but I do agree. I like those RLs, they looked classy. Course, I think I'd take a Legend coupe over either of them.

[siegen]

The S2000 should spank it, even if it barely does in reality

Barely? 1:09 vs 1:12 is more than just barely, it's very significant. After 4 laps, the S2000 and RX8 aren't even in the same sections of the racetrack. The timed acceleration runs only tell part of the story, its on the track where both of the cars excel in handling and balance. Agreed that the S2000 is more hard core and should therefor spank the RX8. As it does, and more than just barely. If you really need the 4 seats, you can always stuff the kids in the trunk. :AH-HA_wink:

[Cory Wolfe]

Barely? 1:09 vs 1:12 is more than just barely, it's very significant. After 4 laps, the S2000 and RX8 aren't even in the same sections of the racetrack. The timed acceleration runs only tell part of the story, its on the track where both of the cars excel in handling and balance. Agreed that the S2000 is more hard core and should therefor spank the RX8. As it does, and more than just barely. If you really need the 4 seats, you can always stuff the kids in the trunk. :AH-HA_wink:

I didn't just post acceleration runs. There was a figure 8 time in there, too.

As well, I wouldn't call that video you posted a stellar example to judge a vehicles ability by. Top Gear, with their single professional driver, the Stig, providing the lap times is better (though not best) to use. The RX8 they tested had an identical time to an M3 and a 350Z on their course. If you took away the other vehicles and left the S2000 and RX8 battle it out, there wouldn't such a difference as shown in the vid you posted. The RX8's main downfall is its poorer power to weight ration compared to the S2000, but it reaches peak torque at much lower RPMs than the S2000. The RX8 is renown for its handling and perfect weight distribution. Remove the weight difference from these two vehicles being designed for separate purposes and you may see a different vehicle come out on top.

Regardless, I love both the S2000 and RX8, but calling the latter overrated in a comparison like this is just silly. As I said, one's a two seat roadster that starts at $35k and the other is a four door, four seat sports coupe that starts at $27k. For $8k, you could easily modify the RX8 to outdo an S2000 at everything... And still have an uncompromising car.

Edited February 14, 2008 by blackviper8891

[siegen]

As well, I wouldn't call that video you posted a stellar example to judge a vehicles ability by. Top Gear, with their single professional driver, the Stig, providing the lap times is better (though not best) to use.

However Top Gear tests different cars in different racing conditions. Different temperature, humidity, sometimes in the wet. They tested an NSX-R in a downpour, subtracted 3-sec from the time, and put it on their wall of lap times.

[Dsuupr]

If the car is built as crappy as the TL in my garage I'm sure the Acura dealers will make a fortune in repairs.

Just a few things I'm bringing in the TL for on Monday. Some are just questions, but things that even the most basic of cars have nowdays. Others are flat out crappy build issues.

1. Dash wavy and looks warped

2. Rear bumper is not on correctly

3. Car had blue smoke coming out of it when started it up in morning

4. How do I get the lights to light up when key fob is used at night or when exiting the car at night?

5. How do I get the doors to delay lock to get things out of the back?

6. How do I get the trunk to open so I don’t get my hands dirty?

7. Where is the IPOD plug in?

8. Why does the stereo not get good reception?

9. Where is the gas mileage indicator? What shows me how many miles I have left on the tank?

10. There is a rattle coming from the center dash

[vonVeezelsnider]

If the car is built as crappy as the TL in my garage I'm sure the Acura dealers will make a fortune in repairs.

Just a few things I'm bringing in the TL for on Monday. Some are just questions, but things that even the most basic of cars have nowdays. Others are flat out crappy build issues.

1. Dash wavy and looks warped

2. Rear bumper is not on correctly

3. Car had blue smoke coming out of it when started it up in morning

4. How do I get the lights to light up when key fob is used at night or when exiting the car at night?

5. How do I get the doors to delay lock to get things out of the back?

6. How do I get the trunk to open so I don’t get my hands dirty?

7. Where is the IPOD plug in?

8. Why does the stereo not get good reception?

9. Where is the gas mileage indicator? What shows me how many miles I have left on the tank?

10. There is a rattle coming from the center dash

You're a better and more patient father than I would be if that was MY son's car.... I'd send it to the crushers and give him a CTS...

[longtooth]

All of Honda's product is looking like Origami these days. Bonsai baby. love the dancin' banana. good show

[G. David Felt]

WOW, That is the ugliest Mid Life Update I have seen. Very Bland and clearly lacking in design DNA and Conservative.

O'h wait, that is right, most conservatives seem to want to support the asian and european automakers rather than their own counteries builders.

That Fake Plastics Gray wood reminded me of the exact same interior fake wood GM put in so many cars and trucks and has taken $h! for being cheap. Amazing how every American builder can be blasted for cheap looking interiors and yet the asian companies do it and they get praised for superior job.

[big blue]

This is really strange but after looking at the RL on Acura's website. Their front shot of the car actually doesn't abhore me anymore. Maybe I'm already starting to get used to the design, not that I'd buy it by any means. Or maybe the photoshop lighting is playing tricks on me. Granted it might be less of a shock to look at it now, but its still obviously not high-class looking with that grille.

Yeah those cars were built like rocks. It is possibly the last 90's Honda that continued unchanged in production until 2004, alongside the NSX. Honda wasn't Honda anymore after they dumped the double-wishbone suspension, the classical Honda interior materials, and switchgear, and the bullet-proof reliability. Now, my mechanic tells me, that most Hondas, after 2000 MY are not what they used to be. Esp, after Honda introduced the new 5 speed automatic transmission, it's been having major problems. It's gotten so bad with their new trannys that this was opened: http://www.hondatransmissionsettlement.com

Anyway, I'm currently car hunting for my mom, she needs a nice car to replace her rusting, high mileage 94 Accord. I was seriously considering a 99-04 3.5 RL, like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-3-5RLC...tem330211230942

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Leather-Sun...tem320216352882

Black on black preferably

What do you think BlackViper?

Bleh, I have a 2002 Accord with 4 transmissions replaced under warranty but its not under the recall years of 2000-2001

I'm actually considering this car for myself in the future. They are definitely classy looking, and are great quiet cruisers. Granted I would love to get a Legend but the cars are so old now, its difficult to find one with low mileage. I'm also looking at used Lucerne's as their depreciation is a benefit for me. I can find some only a a year or two old that are under 19k. I'm still debating on if I want a new or used car, as the new Malibu is definitely one of the contenders for a new car.

I'm only 22 btw, but I value the quietness of a car after a long days work. Maybe having a hypersensitive ear condition might do it too. I'm also big on handling, not so much power as long as its adequate. Currently I'm leaning towards the 3.5RL and I think this largely ignored Acura would be a fine fit for most people.

That Fake Plastics Gray wood reminded me of the exact same interior fake wood GM put in so many cars and trucks and has taken $h! for being cheap. Amazing how every American builder can be blasted for cheap looking interiors and yet the asian companies do it and they get praised for superior job.

Actually the RL features real wood.

Edited February 15, 2008 by big blue

[siegen]

If the car is built as crappy as the TL in my garage I'm sure the Acura dealers will make a fortune in repairs.

Just a few things I'm bringing in the TL for on Monday. Some are just questions, but things that even the most basic of cars have nowdays. Others are flat out crappy build issues.

1. Dash wavy and looks warped

2. Rear bumper is not on correctly

3. Car had blue smoke coming out of it when started it up in morning

4. How do I get the lights to light up when key fob is used at night or when exiting the car at night?

5. How do I get the doors to delay lock to get things out of the back?

6. How do I get the trunk to open so I don’t get my hands dirty?

7. Where is the IPOD plug in?

8. Why does the stereo not get good reception?

9. Where is the gas mileage indicator? What shows me how many miles I have left on the tank?

10. There is a rattle coming from the center dash

What year is your TL? If it's still under warranty, the blue-smoke, rattle, and dash should be fixed. Sounds like you have a lot of questions about your car's features. Hopefully the dealer can get you straightened out. (Btw, good job making it sound much worse than it is though ).

[siegen]

That Fake Plastics Gray wood reminded me of the exact same interior fake wood GM put in so many cars and trucks and has taken $h! for being cheap. Amazing how every American builder can be blasted for cheap looking interiors and yet the asian companies do it and they get praised for superior job.

How can you judge the "cheapness" of trim by a picture? Real wood is offered as part of the Tech package (I believe), and real wood used to be standard on the base RL prior to the MSRP being lowered. Acura switched to fake wood for cost reasons obviously.

The one thing I don't like about the RL's interior in particular is the foot e-brake. Would have liked to see something more elegant incorporated -something operated by hand preferably. Or perhaps an electronic e-brake.

[big blue]

How can you judge the "cheapness" of trim by a picture? Real wood is offered as part of the Tech package (I believe), and real wood used to be standard on the base RL prior to the MSRP being lowered. Acura switched to fake wood for cost reasons obviously.

The one thing I don't like about the RL's interior in particular is the foot e-brake. Would have liked to see something more elegant incorporated -something operated by hand preferably. Or perhaps an electronic e-brake.

Ah I've forgotten about the lower MSRP version, well I doubt the press pics are of a lower end RL so my earlier statement still rings true

[Intrepidation]

My friend's sister bought a band new TL...handsome car really...but within the first week of ownership the transmission had to be replaced. At least it was under warranty.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Yeah, the TL is a lemon... Dssupr is not the only one, and yes, it is that bad if for the sole reason that crap like transmission failures, chipped paint, wavy dash etc.. are happening to everyone.

@Dssupr- if there is a AUX jack, it should be in the glove box, if not, in the center console. Outside of GM that is where most manufacturers put theirs.

[Polish_Kris]

If the car is built as crappy as the TL in my garage I'm sure the Acura dealers will make a fortune in repairs.

Just a few things I'm bringing in the TL for on Monday. Some are just questions, but things that even the most basic of cars have nowdays. Others are flat out crappy build issues.

1. Dash wavy and looks warped

2. Rear bumper is not on correctly

3. Car had blue smoke coming out of it when started it up in morning

4. How do I get the lights to light up when key fob is used at night or when exiting the car at night?

5. How do I get the doors to delay lock to get things out of the back?

6. How do I get the trunk to open so I don’t get my hands dirty?

7. Where is the IPOD plug in?

8. Why does the stereo not get good reception?

9. Where is the gas mileage indicator? What shows me how many miles I have left on the tank?

10. There is a rattle coming from the center dash

Oh My Gosh! Knit-picker! Sell it if you really don't like it!

At the same time, you actually own a Japanese car? Your signature on your account says that people are idiots for buying Japanese cars. WTF?

[Polish_Kris]

My friend's sister bought a band new TL...handsome car really...but within the first week of ownership the transmission had to be replaced. At least it was under warranty.

I read into the Lemon-Aid books, and it claims Honda can't figure out themselves why their trannies are fu*king up. Sounds like Chrysler's minivans... pretty bad.

[Dsuupr]

Oh My Gosh! Knit-picker! Sell it if you really don't like it!

At the same time, you actually own a Japanese car? Your signature on your account says that people are idiots for buying Japanese cars. WTF?

If you would have read my earlier post you would realize we took this car from our "kid" to help out. He was given a BIG amount of crap for buying it in the first place. It's a 3 year lease and he is upside down by over $10,000 (you know great honda resale value) so we are helping him out. For the record I DON'T like the car. And I'm just as picky with my HHR as I am with the tl. I buy GM cars because I know the quality is there.

[Dsuupr]

What year is your TL? If it's still under warranty, the blue-smoke, rattle, and dash should be fixed. Sounds like you have a lot of questions about your car's features. Hopefully the dealer can get you straightened out. (Btw, good job making it sound much worse than it is though ).

I am just as mean about my GM cars if they don't perform. Infact I would most likley be yelling at GM on the phone if my car blew any blue smoke or had crooked body panels and a wavy dash. NONE of our newer GM products have had these issues. This is the type of crap GM made in the 80s and 90s not today. honda on the other hand seems to have picked up where GM left off.

[Polish_Kris]

He was given a BIG amount of crap for buying it in the first place.

How old is you son? Maybe he happens to like Acuras, what's wrong with that? Why would you give someone especially your son crap for buying what he wants. Okay, you say you buy GM because you are convinced the quality is there. Fair enough, would you second guess if GM was a Japanese company? Buying cars for political reasons, or for personal product liking?

[vonVeezelsnider]

How old is you son? Maybe he happens to like Acuras, what's wrong with that? Why would you give someone especially your son crap for buying what he wants.

Why don't you re-read his sig...

[Robert Hall]

Why don't you re-read his sig...

Sounds like he's got some issues w/ his offspring.

My sister got some flack from my folks (hard core Ford buyers) back in the '80s when she bought Datsun Z's (4 in a row), and I got a bit of flack (esp. from my redneck brother) when I bought a BMW and then a Jeep...

[Cory Wolfe]

Why don't you re-read his sig...

With is a bunch of BS, none the less.

[regfootball]

compared to the RL, the mazdaspeed 6 my buddy gave me a ride in a few weeks ago, for less than half the price, pretty much spanks the RL all over.

[Robert Hall]

compared to the RL, the mazdaspeed 6 my buddy gave me a ride in a few weeks ago, for less than half the price, pretty much spanks the RL all over.

The Mazda 6 is not bad, but the interior isn't anything special.. the RL is all about the interior.

[regfootball]

The Mazda 6 is not bad, but the interior isn't anything special.. the RL is all about the interior.

sure. if an extra 20-25 grand for an interior that still doesn't match up to the germans.

[Polish_Kris]

Why don't you re-read his sig...

Yeah, yeah, yeah the usual old-school, "if you buy a Jap car, you are an idiot," "betrayer of this country," and "I'm smarter than you, because I support the domestics," yada yada yada blah blah blah, as I said before, being a car enthusiast for the cars is one thing, but being a car enthusiast for political reasons is another. Sometimes this "patriotism" goes too far. Hello, this is the 21st century, this is an open market, and open economy, where companies are owned by share holders.

Sounds like he's got some issues w/ his offspring.

My sister got some flack from my folks (hard core Ford buyers) back in the '80s when she bought Datsun Z's (4 in a row), and I got a bit of flack (esp. from my redneck brother) when I bought a BMW and then a Jeep...

Yeah and the Datsuns are still probably on the road, and so is your 80s Bimmer, maybe the Jeep too :AH-HA_wink:

With is a bunch of BS, none the less.

Thank you!

[Intrepidation]

Buy whatever you like just don't be base your decision on undeserved/blind bias. That's how I look at it.

[Polish_Kris]

Buy whatever you like just don't be base your decision on undeserved/blind bias. That's how I look at it.

Thank you!

[Dsuupr]

I would have agreed with you on buying what you like 15 years ago, but with a 10 trillion dollar debt I know it's time we changed our thinking. For the past few years Bush has pulled billions of dollars from schools, and 90% of his spending has come from foreign investment. This isn't good stuff and unless you are a total dumbass you would realize this does affect not only the amount you are taxed but also your specific life (roads, police, fire department, schools military, more taxes, etc.).

Automobiles are the biggest single imported product that adds to our trade deficit which as of 2006 was almost $800,000,000 a year (total deficit added from imports per year). Like your own personal budget, running on credit can only last so long before it has a very negative long term effects.

Something else to consider. Everytime GM, Ford or Chrysler lays someone off, it's your tax dollars that are paying for the person's unemployment. At this time GM has more employees in the US than ALL of the foreign companies combined. I for one am not wanting money that could go to a new car or my kids school to go to a guy who was just layed off because of downsizing.

I'm guessing that those that don't try to purchase from countries with fair trade practices, generally are more concerned with themselves than others. I for one am concerned about our country and the people that live in it.

Once our trade deficit equals out with the Asian countries and they start playing fair trade, then I will be more open to buying cars they make. For the record; I am not against European cars in general, as we don't run the deficit issue with them as we do with Asian countries.

[Dsuupr]

How old is you son? Maybe he happens to like Acuras, what's wrong with that? Why would you give someone especially your son crap for buying what he wants. Okay, you say you buy GM because you are convinced the quality is there. Fair enough, would you second guess if GM was a Japanese company? Buying cars for political reasons, or for personal product liking?

He's 21.

When he took home the Audi TT I was ok with it. It's not about quality, it's about the deficit, lost US jobs (3,000,000 lost in manufacturing since 2000), and schools being in a financial crisis that is very important in our family.

I am not a believer in the mushy crap the Baby Boomers started. I do believe in equality among the races, sexes, etc., but that doesn't mean I can't stand up for my beliefs and let people know when they do something I believe is wrong. It's no different than those making comments about me being pro American purchase. They are standing up for what they believe and that's ok. Better than being a push over wimp when it comes to what you believe in. Changing the world start at home.

[Robert Hall]

Yeah and the Datsuns are still probably on the road, and so is your 80s Bimmer, maybe the Jeep too :AH-HA_wink:

Thank you!

Maybe...the '77, '82, and '86 Zs may still be running around Phoenix, but I doubt it...her last one, a '90 Turbo, was totalled in '92 then she moved on to a Saab, then an Acura, then Mercedes-Benz. My '96 BMW is still in fine shape, as is my daily driver '00 Jeep..

[Polish_Kris]

I would have agreed with you on buying what you like 15 years ago, but with a 10 trillion dollar debt I know it's time we changed our thinking. For the past few years Bush has pulled billions of dollars from schools, and 90% of his spending has come from foreign investment. This isn't good stuff and unless you are a total dumbass you would realize this does affect not only the amount you are taxed but also your specific life (roads, police, fire department, schools military, more taxes, etc.).

Automobiles are the biggest single imported product that adds to our trade deficit which as of 2006 was almost $800,000,000 a year (total deficit added from imports per year). Like your own personal budget, running on credit can only last so long before it has a very negative long term effects.

Something else to consider. Everytime GM, Ford or Chrysler lays someone off, it's your tax dollars that are paying for the person's unemployment. At this time GM has more employees in the US than ALL of the foreign companies combined. I for one am not wanting money that could go to a new car or my kids school to go to a guy who was just layed off because of downsizing.

I'm guessing that those that don't try to purchase from countries with fair trade practices, generally are more concerned with themselves than others. I for one am concerned about our country and the people that live in it.

Once our trade deficit equals out with the Asian countries and they start playing fair trade, then I will be more open to buying cars they make. For the record; I am not against European cars in general, as we don't run the deficit issue with them as we do with Asian countries.

He's 21.

When he took home the Audi TT I was ok with it. It's not about quality, it's about the deficit, lost US jobs (3,000,000 lost in manufacturing since 2000), and schools being in a financial crisis that is very important in our family.

I am not a believer in the mushy crap the Baby Boomers started. I do believe in equality among the races, sexes, etc., but that doesn't mean I can't stand up for my beliefs and let people know when they do something I believe is wrong. It's no different than those making comments about me being pro American purchase. They are standing up for what they believe and that's ok. Better than being a push over wimp when it comes to what you believe in. Changing the world start at home.

I see what you're saying, and didn't mean to be rude because I had so many arguments with narrow-minded domestic humpers who would insult and laugh at everyone who drove an import. I don't believe that especially with cars, you should get so political. I live in Canada, and we have a strong economy here, however from what I know, The US is entering a recession, which is going to hurt our exports. But, that's okay, China, and india's demand for our resources will compensate for the loss I travel to Buffalo almost every week, my girlfriend studies there, and I see what was once a beautiful, industrial super power, is now collapsing, and rotting. I see the abandoned industry in Niagara Falls, NY, and some ares of Buffalo. It's sad, but you know what? There is nothing you can do about it. Buying one Malibu over an Accord wont make a difference. You guys have stupid politicians in Washington, worried about what's going on in the middle-east, and your own country is falling to $h!. You guys don't even have free health care! Take a trip to Fort Erie, Ontario, which is across the river from Buffalo, and you'll see nothing but New York plates at the hospital parking lot, because people love the fact they don't have to sell their house to stay a week in the hospital. However, I gotta love the States for the shopping, you guys seriously know how to slash prices on brand named products, which is good for our CDN dollar, so in a way, we Canadians are contributing to your economy, but still doesn't make a difference. Hey Dspuur, have you considered moving up here? P.S. don't over the fact that your country is in debt, it's not your fault, it's not your son's fault, it's your government's!

Edited February 18, 2008 by Polish_Kris

[Intrepidation]

I agree that are idiot politicians have screwed this country over for pointless foreign policies and personal agendas, then believe that the economy is great and the country is doing fine. It;s not, anyone with half a brain can see it. Nevertheless, I won't let some f@#ktard's mistakes ruin my desire to purchase something I like because it doesn't come from here. Not like it's any real concern, most of the cars I want are made buy Detroit, but someday down teh road if I have the money you can bet your ass I'd love to have GTR sitting in my garage next to my Challenger and Camaro.

[siegen]

compared to the RL, the mazdaspeed 6 my buddy gave me a ride in a few weeks ago, for less than half the price, pretty much spanks the RL all over.

Are you drunk?

[Cory Wolfe]

As others are saying and I've said in the past, you can't blame the buying public. It's the government. The entire political system and the politicians who run it are f@#ked up. Everyone has the right to buy what they want. Someone should not have to say "Hmm... I really like product A while product B really turns me off. Product A isn't American owned or made, so I'm going to have buy product B to make up for my neighbor buying product A." If someone likes something, that is all that should matter, especially in the realm of enthusiasts. The reason why we're enthusiasts in the first place is because we like certain vehicles. How many people here appreciate it when someone exclaims to them that buying GM is a stupid purchase?

[The O.C.]

He's 21.

When he took home the Audi TT I was ok with it. It's not about quality, it's about the deficit, lost US jobs (3,000,000 lost in manufacturing since 2000), and schools being in a financial crisis that is very important in our family.

I am not a believer in the mushy crap the Baby Boomers started. I do believe in equality among the races, sexes, etc., but that doesn't mean I can't stand up for my beliefs and let people know when they do something I believe is wrong. It's no different than those making comments about me being pro American purchase. They are standing up for what they believe and that's ok. Better than being a push over wimp when it comes to what you believe in. Changing the world start at home.

Well, we wouldn't have to bitch about the trade deficit from Japan........if.....the Big 3 had the foresight to build the kind of cars that people wanted to buy in the first place. They didn't see it....and as a result of the crap quality and uncompetitive design and engineering that consumers in this market had to choose from over the last 30 years, we are facing the problem we are today.

The Japanese were simply smart enough to see the trends emerging in this country....and they took advantage of it...! Yet our own companies couldn't see what was emerging and only NOW are we getting products from them that are anywhere as desirable or competitive with our Asian and European friends. And we still have a LONG way to go product-wise....

The GM-only fans on this site would argue that there are many people like them that would ONLY buy GM or domestic....and that any of those GM or domestic choices are as desirable or more desirable as their imported counterparts. However, sales and market-share trends in this country....still today even.....would tend to disagree with them.

A car purchase is HARDLY a political decision......

Edited February 19, 2008 by The O.C.

[intrigued]

I guess I'm in the minoritry with Dsuupr here. I'm a car enthusiest and there are a bunch of cars that I like that are not GM cars but i'd never get, not because I think they're crap but because I belive that a difference can still be made by me purchasing a good domestic car every now and again.

It goes back to the quote "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country."

Yes I am very disapointed with how our country is being run. The war in Iraq, irresponsiable spending, lack of quality public education in many areas to name a few. Jobs being lost and an incrediable trade defict and politicans who all have agendas.

But i come back to this quote and I realize that our country has been in these sitations before and if enough people say, "I'm going to buy american because our dumbass politicans aren't smart enough to impose a fair trade reform." Than we can start helping ourselves regardless of what our politicans do or don't do. it's like the people who don't vote then complain about the goverment. They have no right to complain unless they to the intrest to help choose the leader messing things up.

People think have the right to spend their money on whatever they want but it really pisses me off when they use the excuse, "this system is so broken that it doesn't matter that I buy this or do that. How can I make a differnce?" that's just defeatist, rationalistic bull crap. If everyone says that of course it will stay broken. I may be fighting an unwinnable uphill batle but i'll be damned if I don't do my tiny infentesimal part to try and fix it

[The O.C.]

People think have the right to spend their money on whatever they want but it really pisses me off when they use the excuse, "this system is so broken that it doesn't matter that I buy this or do that. How can I make a differnce?" that's just defeatist, rationalistic bull crap. If everyone says that of course it will stay broken. I may be fighting an unwinnable uphill batle but i'll be damned if I don't do my tiny infentesimal part to try and fix it

It may be alot less than you are making it out to be.

Look at my recent post in The Lounge. I just got an '07 Audi A4 from my ex....and I compare the virtures to my '07 CTS Sport. For ME (and I recognize I am by no means a majority) the Audi fits my needs best.

Politics nor loyalty to one's country has nothing to do with it......it's simply a preference.

I think MOST people make their decisions in car-buying based upon the same assumptions. I don't think politics plays a part as much as we'd like to think it does.

[Dsuupr]

I guess I'm in the minoritry with Dsuupr here. I'm a car enthusiest and there are a bunch of cars that I like that are not GM cars but i'd never get, not because I think they're crap but because I belive that a difference can still be made by me purchasing a good domestic car every now and again.

It goes back to the quote "ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country."

Yes I am very disapointed with how our country is being run. The war in Iraq, irresponsiable spending, lack of quality public education in many areas to name a few. Jobs being lost and an incrediable trade defict and politicans who all have agendas.

But i come back to this quote and I realize that our country has been in these sitations before and if enough people say, "I'm going to buy american because our dumbass politicans aren't smart enough to impose a fair trade reform." Than we can start helping ourselves regardless of what our politicans do or don't do. it's like the people who don't vote then complain about the goverment. They have no right to complain unless they to the intrest to help choose the leader messing things up.

People think have the right to spend their money on whatever they want but it really pisses me off when they use the excuse, "this system is so broken that it doesn't matter that I buy this or do that. How can I make a differnce?" that's just defeatist, rationalistic bull crap. If everyone says that of course it will stay broken. I may be fighting an unwinnable uphill batle but i'll be damned if I don't do my tiny infentesimal part to try and fix it

Well put. I couldn't agree more.

[Polish_Kris]

But i come back to this quote and I realize that our country has been in these sitations before and if enough people say, "I'm going to buy american because our dumbass politicans aren't smart enough to impose a fair trade reform."

That's been the reason to dislike Japan on many topics on this board, because "Japan does not let the US to sell their cars there". Maybe there is no demand for US cars there. Maybe that's what they believe. I'm sure if there was demand for Buicks and Chevys, I'm sure there would be no hesitation to market them there.

[Robert Hall]

That's been the reason to dislike Japan on many topics on this board, because "Japan does not let the US to sell their cars there". Maybe there is no demand for US cars there. Maybe that's what they believe. I'm sure if there was demand for Buicks and Chevys, I'm sure there would be no hesitation to market them there.

They sell a few Caddies there, though..aren't Cadillacs the car of choice of successful Yakuza?

[siegen]

They sell a few Caddies there, though..aren't Cadillacs the car of choice of successful Yakuza?

Anata wa Cadillac desu ka

Edit: It looks like GM does sell some cars in Japan, although only a small selection. GM Japan. That's news to me.

Edited February 20, 2008 by siegen

[Robert Hall]

Anata wa Cadillac desu ka

Edit: It looks like GM does sell some cars in Japan, although only a small selection. GM Japan. That's news to me.

Interesting..I wonder if they will sell the Camaro there. I know the Astro has a cult following in Japan, but I don't know if it was ever officially sold there.

(interestingly, the only 1:24th scale model kits made of Astros are from Fujimi, a Japanese model company).

[Polish_Kris]

I know the Astro has a cult following in Japan, but I don't know if it was ever officially sold there.

Grey market importing.

[intrigued]

there were several attempts to break into japan in volume but the government there stopped any large attempt by "inspecting" cars that were imported for months on end at the docs and tariffed the hell out of them so it became impratical to try and sell and markey in bulk. If the US pulled off the gloves and played by the same rules Japan would loose crap loads of money on their imported models. That would cause one of two things to happen. They build all their cars and components here in the US so while not ideal at least a decent amount of US citizens are employed, or number 2 they are forced to give us the same unrestricted access to their markets. I think some of the new GM products could do very well there if they werent handycapped by the japanese government.

Also while I made a very clear declaration about how I look at car buying I don't belive it is nessasary for everyone to buy for patriotic reasons. I think it is important that people become educated consumers and try and make sure that if they decide on an import that they will make sure they ship US more in other areas of their lives. I don't shop donmestic everything, I just make sure that Most of what I buy is homegrown. It's the defeatist people who say "it's not my fault the governments f-ed up so why should I give a crap when I know what's going on cause its their fault" group that pisses me off.

And by far and large Europe practices far trade with the US unlike asian countries. If they're playing fair it's okay to buy it in my book.

[titan]

"ACCORD AWD BROUGHAM"

must be a lot of ricers living in assisted living these days. all grown up they say!

LOL. Hilarious...

[smk4565]

I agree there is a trade deficit problem, which the government has done nothing to help.

However, it has nothing to do with the Detroit 3's problem. If they are upset that sales are down and they have to lay people off they should build better cars.

American cars don't sell in other countries because the build quality isn't good enough and the fuel efficiency is too low. American companies also lack quality small cars, which is what other countries by.

[Intrepidation]

This thread probably has more posts than there will be buyers this year of the RL.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Dodgefan