How do you define manhood?

[A Horse With No Name]

Question for C&Gers. How do you personally define being a man?

Just read an interesting book about boys which had as a Thesis that boys today lack positive male role models and have trouble defining what it means to be a man. The book got me thinking.

So:

How do you define being a man?

To our younger members-do you find a lack of older men that you look up to? Do you agree or disagree with the idea that there are few positive male role models? Do you think todays definition of manhood is different than your fathers?

To our gay members-a serious question-how do young gay teens/young gay adults adjust to manhood? Do you think manhood is defined differently (other than sexual choice) for gays and non gays?

To our older members-do you think that young men today have a harder time defining "manhood" than when you grew up?

Any feedback-thoughts would be highly sought after.

THANKS!

Chris

[Drew Dowdell]

I think gay people will define "manhood" quite differently if you asked the general population. Here on the other hand most of the gay guys seem to be of the more masculine type. I think being a "man" has definitely changed since the time of my father's and grandfather's coming of age.

Today there is much less emphasis on gender roles. It's ok for a man to be a stay at home, work at home, dad while the wife goes to the office every day. In gay relationships, the typically masculine and feminine chores can be split up any which way.

I highly doubt you'll find anyone able to put a single definition on what it is to be a man other than having a penis.

[NOS2006]

A man is something that is different to everybody. I really can't pinpoint what a "man" is and I'm not sure that I've reached that point in my life. I do believe I could go out on my own and live off of what I've got, but I'm not sure I possess that extra something that would make me a "true man."

I guess until I go through something really difficult and come out of it okay, or until my father tells me so, I won't view myself as a man.

Good question though.. really good question.

[SuperSport623]

Driving a V8? :AH-HA_wink:

im not sure... as a teen, theres really not many positve male role models i can think of... my dad had a big influence on me though..

i guess ill feel accomplished when i start making a real living for myself, and have a family to take care of

[schuby87]

A man does stuff like this on a regular basis...

http://www.manoverse.com/2007/12/10/manlie...-headline-ever/

I find it easier to see qualities in people that I dont want to see in myself.

[regfootball]

i'm pretty shallow. i hear the word MANHOOD and the first thing that pops in my head is what sort of humorous punchline I can come up with, so I'll just pass on this topic........

[Robert Hall]

I sort of define it in a similar way I would to being an adult--taking responsibility for your behaviour, being financially responsible, being professional in your manner and public persona.

[04monteintimidator]

I sort of define it in a similar way I would to being an adult--taking responsibility for your behaviour, being financially responsible, being professional in your manner and public persona.

+1

as well as being strong enough to defend what you think is right, i feel like far too many people these days are witness to injustices or various other wrongs that they could stop if they wanted to but just let it happen because they are afraid to stand up for the little guy, victim, etc

[vonVeezelsnider]

I sort of define it in a similar way I would to being an adult--taking responsibility for your behaviour, being financially responsible, being professional in your manner and public persona.

[XP715]

Being independent and being a good provider for yourself and your family (if applicable).

[Croc]

I like what the Jewish tradition views as "becoming a man" with the bar mitzvah. To me, they got it right over 6,000 years ago.

[daves87rs]

I sort of define it in a similar way I would to being an adult--taking responsibility for your behaviour, being financially responsible, being professional in your manner and public persona.

x2

[Cory Wolfe]

If you can take it like man...

[jcgable]

Respect is what defines manhood. A man's ability to respect his neighbor, respect his partner and family, and respect the world around him. It is once he lives his life in a positive manner to the best of his abilities that he truly can be considered a man.

[loki]

I sort of define it in a similar way I would to being an adult--taking responsibility for your behaviour, being financially responsible, being professional in your manner and public persona.

sounds good to me.

+1

as well as being strong enough to defend what you think is right, i feel like far too many people these days are witness to injustices or various other wrongs that they could stop if they wanted to but just let it happen because they are afraid to stand up for the little guy, victim, etc

don't want to debate this, but would the "don't taze me bro" guy fit that description (sorry first one that pooped in my head), since his fellow students just sat and watched?

[jcgable]

sounds good to me.

don't want to debate this, but would the "don't taze me bro" guy fit that description (sorry first one that pooped in my head), since his fellow students just sat and watched?

There is a really long psychological explanation for this-too long to post. It essentially provides an explanation of an individuals mentality while they are in a mob or group. Inaction is considered to be the most prudent course of action to take.

Edited February 1, 2008 by jcgable

[zhawk]

When you take responsibility for yourself and those who look to you for support and nurture.

When you accept responsibility for your words, thoughts, and deeds.

When you are willing to do what is right even though it may be the tough road.

When you accept that there is more out there that needs your care than your own little 'world'.

When you accept that you can't do all of this alone, that we are here together.

Then you are a man.

I was raised to accept that it was my responibility to take care of my family. At first my wife didn't understand that viewpoint. But after a long discussion she came to realize that I wasn't telling her that she didn't (or shouldn't) have a commitment to me, our family, our relationship. I just knew that I had an unshakeable commitment to giving her and our kids the best possible future that I could. Now, we have the same commitment to each other. Makes for a pretty good marriage.

[K.C.]

Agree, the term manhood is a vernacular term. I define manhood as:

having "outdoor plumbing".

having a strong code of ethics and following them.

being responsible for your actions and your decisions.

showing the people you love how you feel about them.

taking care of yourself and no being destructive.

[91z4me]

Well to most people it would be the plumbing but genetically it would be the presensce of the SRY gene, but it may actually appear on an X chromosome, theoretically someone can have XX sex chromosomes and be genetically and physically male. At the same time w/out the proper hormones at the proper times an XY male w/ the SRY gene will appear externally female.

Medically it gets complex but philosophically I think being a man is when you realize that YOU are responsible for your own live. Any past experience doesn't define you, but instead YOU define yourself and are responsible for yourself. Once that happens you are prepared to start doing 'man things' like entering into a true and proper long term relationship or think about having children.

[CARBIZ]

When I was a kid, growing up in the late '70s, holding hands with my BF on the streets of Toronto and someone would yell out, "FAG," (always after they passed us and about 3 paces away before they would turn, of course!), I would hurl back,"I AM MORE OF A MAN THAN YOU WILL EVER BE AND MORE OF A WOMAN THAN YOU WILL EVER GET."

Served me well then and now.

I think that if the 'sexual revolution' of the past 50 years (still ongoing, IMO) has taught us one thing, that is that definitions are constantly changing and even blurring. I look at the younger people of today, with their pants crotches down to their knees and their untied runners and shake my head, but I realize that they are only trying to find their way in the world. When I was in grade 13 (1980) and guys started wearing a little make-up (punk), that was a revolution in of itself, but really those guys were just saying, "F$#k you, you can't pigeon-hole me."

The definitions of man and woman are in flux, which I suspect is making it more difficult to date these days. Just like buying a car when there were only 4 or 5 makes and a half dozen 'types' of vehicles was easier, everything is more complicated today. But I am glad to see an end to a lot of the hypocrisy and double standards that existed in the false world of 50 years ago.

[RichW5]

I sort of define it in a similar way I would to being an adult--taking responsibility for your behaviour, being financially responsible, being professional in your manner and public persona.

My two step-sons are 30 and 36 respectively. I do not consider them to be men, because they do not accept responsibility for their actions, nor are they financially responsible.

Both have had DUI's in the past year and because they have no money, they hit their mother (and me) up for money to pay court costs and for lawyers.

The 30 year old has cost his mother (and me) about $45K in the nine years we've been married. Fights between him and his girlfriend (Mother of his 6 year old son) resulted in him being arrested more times than I can count. There were lawyer costs and court costs and money spent on sh*t he didn't need, but had to have. He was also without a drivers license for at least 9 years due to an accident with marijuana found in the car. Needless to say, there were 4 or 5 arrests for driving without a license. He is currently living in our basement, which he did finish for us, with a bedroom, bathroom and family room.

The 36 year old is jealous of his brother and has a Napolean complex due to being only 5"9". Two years ago, he bought a new house that was bigger than ours, financed partially by his mother. He has to have a F250, Mustang GT, $2000 pool cues, a Honda SuperHawk and more than a few guns, yet he asked his mother to pay his heating bill recently, because he and his wife couldn't make the payment. Now his wife is pregnant and I honestly believe the baby will be more mature than it's parents.

The only good thing is my 6 year old grandson is a wonderful kid. He believes in saving his money and always helps around our house, which he calls his house. His mother is also broke and doesn't clean house so he has to. He recently asked , when can I decide where I want to live?

I believe that the 6 year old will be a man in my eyes before either his father or his uncle.

Just my thoughts on what makes a man!

[Dsuupr]

A man is someone who takes responsiblity for his actions, will protect his friends and family at the cost of his own life or happiness, and one who is willing to stand for what he believes in, but is willing to accept when he is wrong.

Being a man has nothing to do with sex. I find is sad that we put more emphasis on sex than actual love. It goes to show how screwed up we really are.

A real man will not have sex with a women unless he is willing to hand that women his entire paycheck to take care of the child that might come out of her.

[CARBIZ]

A man is someone who takes responsiblity for his actions, will protect his friends and family at the cost of his own life or happiness, and one who is willing to stand for what he believes in, but is willing to accept when he is wrong.

Being a man has nothing to do with sex. I find is sad that we put more emphasis on sex than actual love. It goes to show how screwed up we really are.

A real man will not have sex with a women unless he is willing to hand that women his entire paycheck to take care of the child that might come out of her.

I respectfully disagree: we don't put enough emphasis on sex. Somehow it has been 'enshrined' as sacred when, in fact, all animals do it. The trouble begins because we leave adolescents and children to their own devices, then when they fumble around in relationships they don't have a clue what they are doing. Religion (and I don't want to sidetrack this discussion, but this point needs to be made) has confused the issue by elevating sex to some revered status. Their are millions of ruined marriages everywhere because the sex has died in the relationship. Why is that? Could it be that the two involved were not sexually compatible in the first place? There is so much beyond the 'missionary position,' but we are supposed to be ashamed to discuss it. That is why in my earlier post I mentioned that I am glad we are finally seeing an end to moral hypocrisy.

It serves no one to brush sex under the carpet, but then it would largely depend on whether you believe 'love' and 'sex' are divine or merely natural processes of the firing of neurons, etc. Moral relativism may scare some, but the world order (and definitions of man and woman) imposed by the Church over the past 2,000 years has hindered progress on so very many fronts.

[A Horse With No Name]

Interesting discussion guys, THANKS!

Chris

[deftonesfan867]

When you please your partner mentally and physically :AH-HA_wink:

[siegen]

If you can drive a Smart without losing confidence, you're manly.

If you need to run and jump back into your Camaro immediately after to feel ok with yourself, uhh..... you might be a redneck. lol (that and you need to have your manliness checked)

[A Horse With No Name]

I can drive a Miata without loosing manliness, does that count? (but I still like Camaro)

Chris

[CARBIZ]

If you can drive a Smart without losing confidence, you're manly.

If you need to run and jump back into your Camaro immediately after to feel ok with yourself, uhh..... you might be a redneck. lol (that and you need to have your manliness checked)

If you can drive a Smart car and not lose confidence, you need to be checked into a mental hospital.

I see WAYYY too many of them around here and I can't help but smirk every time I see one!

Oh, and Chris, I hate to burst your bubble, but the Miata is the official car of Church St. (along with the Civic and Mazda 3) :gay:

Edited February 2, 2008 by CARBIZ

[A Horse With No Name]

Maybe I need to hang out on church street then.

Chris

[makfu]

sounds good to me.

don't want to debate this, but would the "don't taze me bro" guy fit that description (sorry first one that pooped in my head), since his fellow students just sat and watched?

No.

His behavior was such that most people in the auditorium were probably confused or shocked that he would get up and begin ranting at Senator Kerry. The campus public safety officers did the right thing and, frankly, the student got exactly what he deserved for his outrageous behavior. That a number of immature college students (and yes, I have nothing but contempt for most college students) then began whipping up protest in feigned indignation is a perfect example of the LACK of maturity in much of today’s academic society.

Which brings me to the broader point; being a responsible adult (more than just manhood) means not just taking responsibility for ones actions or taking action that is in the best interest of one’s family, community and country, but it also means doing so in a measured and thoughtful fashion. Because of the relative immaturity of the Baby Boomer and later generations, and it's "I want it now" mentality, too many people think that being "heard" is all that matters and "he who shouts loudest" is the winner. To create real change requires a lot of REAL work, something that the "don't taze me" kid doesn't understand. It means learning how to properly articulate yourself, it means structured and civilized debate, it means you might have to spend MANY years working towards a goal and, in some cases, you might have to sacrifice your life to a cause.

Sadly, the post-boomer western world thinks answers to the world’s problems come about by yelling the loudest, concocting ridiculous conspiracy theories, doctoring the truth and cheap sound-bite solutions. That much of the population lives in a state of arrested development, with regards to maturity, is a seriously problem that calls into question what it means to be an adult, rather than just manhood.

[CARBIZ]

I hear the music from "It's All Been Done Before.." Just like reality TV, college campuses, politics...everyone thinks it is necessary to act more and more outrageous to get noticed. All the hard work has already been done. What is left? The younger generation is having to make up its drama because it's already been done. The trouble is, with all the screaming, most people are no longer listening.

Maybe being a man is just learning to say things like "Thank you," and 'please,' and 'sorry.'

[daves87rs]

A man is someone who takes responsiblity for his actions, will protect his friends and family at the cost of his own life or happiness, and one who is willing to stand for what he believes in, but is willing to accept when he is wrong.

Being a man has nothing to do with sex. I find is sad that we put more emphasis on sex than actual love. It goes to show how screwed up we really are.

A real man will not have sex with a women unless he is willing to hand that women his entire paycheck to take care of the child that might come out of her.

Also agree with this....