NY 2008 Preview: Production Pontiac ST pickup to appear

[Robert Hall]

I see your point. Pontiac should eschew this, the G8, and the Solstice and dedicate itself to making FWD fleet specials. That'd be a much more successful strategy.

Well, that is the strategy that been working for years now..

[regfootball]

So there should be no reason the G8 SW could be too.

I find it hard to believe that these couldn't find 5-10k homes/yr. 5 series space, solid RWD perfomance at sub-1 series pricing---seems to be a no-brainer to me.

I haven't priced a G8, but I'm assuming that even with a modest premium, there could be a space for sub30k SWs.

Nah, that would make Pontiac relevant again as a source of unique performance.

Let's rebadge another Chevy for them!

this, we can agree on, 100%

[zetaman]

I know the 4 door Crewman is going to be shown at Chicago, now I hear that the Ute may also only be shown in Chicago and not in NY. I also hear GM Bean Counters are looking at the pros and cons of bringing the Pontiac ST to the USA once again. Remember what happened when they looked at the Sportwagon? Just thought y'all should know so your not caught by the short hairs once again.

Shameless scaremongering, PCS!! Really, that’s almost beneath you :AH-HA_wink: Btw, your sig: TICK-TOCK! Don't forget GM is a business, it's not here for anyone's personal self gratification! is a little odd. Aside from the fairly obvious pleonasm don't you think good business fulfills a need and makes the customer feel gratified? Shouldn't that be GM's mission?

A user on another site, MonaroSS, has produced a few chops of how a Crewman might look – def worth a look

MonaroSS Crewman renderings

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

GM must have collective dementia. Dull Australian styling coupled with 2 seat impracticality wrapped up in a damaged brand not known for pickups is a recipe for failure. Who besides the cheap-beer swilling (not that that's a bad thing btw), tank-topped greasy hillbilly maxxed out on his limited credit will even care about such a beast?

Has GM ever heard of the Subaru Baja, which only sold 30,000 units in 4 years? How did its own 2 seat SSR do? Will this dog cannibalize Solstice sales? Is GM trying to kill Pontiac?

LOL...

Putting all factual arguments aside (Price different, purpose, marketing, etc)

I guess those same "cheap beer swilling... greasy hillbillys" are the same people buying Ridgelines, right?

[daves87rs]

So there should be no reason the G8 SW could be too.

I find it hard to believe that these couldn't find 5-10k homes/yr. 5 series space, solid RWD perfomance at sub-1 series pricing---seems to be a no-brainer to me.

I haven't priced a G8, but I'm assuming that even with a modest premium, there could be a space for sub30k SWs.

Nah, that would make Pontiac relevant again as a source of unique performance.

Let's rebadge another Chevy for them!

True-not to mention that the wagon was a looker...the issue is going to be price....

[Intrepidation]

GM must have collective dementia. Dull Australian styling coupled with 2 seat impracticality wrapped up in a damaged brand not known for pickups is a recipe for failure. Who besides the cheap-beer swilling (not that that's a bad thing btw), tank-topped greasy hillbilly maxxed out on his limited credit will even care about such a beast?

Has GM ever heard of the Subaru Baja, which only sold 30,000 units in 4 years? How did its own 2 seat SSR do? Will this dog cannibalize Solstice sales? Is GM trying to kill Pontiac?

So you're insinuating that people who like this car, are redneck inbreds? That's not ignorance at all.

This will not fail like the Baja because 1.) it has history, anyone with half a brain and any interest at all in classic cars will know this is the El Camino's spiritual successor. There's a cult following for these things and people will know doubt be itching to be able to buy a new one again.

2.) It looks far better than the Baja

3.) It's a more fuel efficient, nimble alternative to a small truck.

4.) Sales expectations are not that high, so it doesn't have a massive quota to meet annually.

[buyacargetacheck]

So you're insinuating that people who like this car, are redneck inbreds? YES!!! That's not ignorance at all.

This will not fail like the Baja because 1.) it has history, anyone with half a brain and any interest at all in classic cars will know this is the El Camino's spiritual successor. There's a cult following for these things and people will know doubt be itching to be able to buy a new one again. Sorta like the Pontiac Monaro was the spiritual successor to the original Goats??? Huh huh

2.) It looks far better than the Baja If you say so.

3.) It's a more fuel efficient, nimble alternative to a small truck. More fuel efficient than a Tacoma??? The ST won't be positioned against "small trucks."

4.) Sales expectations are not that high, so it doesn't have a massive quota to meet annually. It will be an unqualified success then. All 25 customers will no doubt be happy campers.

[buyacargetacheck]

Actually the only guy I personally know here in LA (furrin car land) who owns a Ridgeline actually works in a beer factory. All American Army National Guardsman with foreign experience. A real patriot:)

LOL...

Putting all factual arguments aside (Price different, purpose, marketing, etc)

I guess those same "cheap beer swilling... greasy hillbillys" are the same people buying Ridgelines, right?

[Intrepidation]

You're an ignoramus who half the time pulls "facts" and "statistics" out of his ass without actually researching.

The Baja looked like what it was, a plastic cladded, pudgy outback.

The ST is an alternative, kind of like how the Ridgeline is expect unlike the Ridgeline, it doesn't look like ass. I wouldn't down teh V6 ST would get better mileage than a Tacoma, and naturally it'll handle better than and BOD truck...of course the Tacoma's chassis tuning is rubbish anyway.

You should really go back to the hole in the ground from whence you came, until you have something meaningful to contribute.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

GM must have collective dementia. Dull Australian styling coupled with 2 seat impracticality wrapped up in a damaged brand not known for pickups is a recipe for failure. Who besides the cheap-beer swilling (not that that's a bad thing btw), tank-topped greasy hillbilly maxxed out on his limited credit will even care about such a beast?

Ignorance materializes.

I suppose I'm an evil far worse than the ST/El Camino buyer you describe because I'm considering buy not one, but two Camaros, and finding a way to convert a compact truck to V8 power on top of that. Do me, and everyone else, a favor and pull your head on out your ass and take one deep breath in.

Has GM ever heard of the Subaru Baja, which only sold 30,000 units in 4 years? How did its own 2 seat SSR do? Will this dog cannibalize Solstice sales? Is GM trying to kill Pontiac?

How would this cannibalize Solstice sales? Again, ignorance materializes.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Shameless scaremongering, PCS!! Really, that’s almost beneath you :AH-HA_wink: Btw, your sig: TICK-TOCK! Don't forget GM is a business, it's not here for anyone's personal self gratification! is a little odd. Aside from the fairly obvious pleonasm don't you think good business fulfills a need and makes the customer feel gratified? Shouldn't that be GM's mission?

A user on another site, MonaroSS, has produced a few chops of how a Crewman might look – def worth a look

MonaroSS Crewman renderings

Nothing of the sort Sir. I am just warning my C&G brothers and sisters of what's going on internally at good old GM. It doesn't do my heart good to see you so nervous, how do I know your nervous you may ask, just by the content of your post. It's OK, I will hold your hand as well, when Holden comes crashing down, even though your main site is GMOUTSIDENEWS. Yes der Bö®gÉr is a very compassionate man indeed. :AH-HA_wink: You know after all is said and done, we should get together and have a pint and a laugh, I'm sure we would have a very stimulating conversation indeed. Give my love to MonaroSS and a BIG kiss to JoeT from me, no tongue though please!

G'day M8t, Bö®gÉr starts to sing as he walks away "Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda Who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda, with me And he sang as he watched and waited 'til his billy boiled, "Who'll come ..."

Edited January 27, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[turbo200]

This will find more buyers than some are speculating here. Many who've bought the GTO did not buy it because of practicality. they bought it for performance, pure and simple. The same will be done in this case. That and the stealth quality of a limited edition performance....pickup! This will do big, and it will especially be big in southern states....like California. [and by big I mean it will meet thier expectations...probably between 12-15k customers per year.

[regfootball]

we all seem to forget. it's ok for audi to sell 8,000 A3's a year, and hurrah for that. So i see no reason why GM can't commit to only maybe 10k of these.

[buyacargetacheck]

No doubt two Camaros would look better than one in front of your doublewide.

Both the Solstice and ST are commuter vehicles at best and toys at worst. No one will know about the ST because Pontiac won't advertise it nationally (for long if at all) because of the low volumes. So, the natural buyer will be the dude who comes in to look at a Solstice but ends up digging the ST. More likely, the ST will find few buyers and a sales run here of about 3 years. About the same time Chief Pontiac hangs up his headdress for good.

Ignorance materializes.

I suppose I'm an evil far worse than the ST/El Camino buyer you describe because I'm considering buy not one, but two Camaros, and finding a way to convert a compact truck to V8 power on top of that. Do me, and everyone else, a favor and pull your head on out your ass and take one deep breath in.

How would this cannibalize Solstice sales? Again, ignorance materializes.

[Intrepidation]

Nothing of the sort Sir. I am just warning my C&G brothers and sisters of what's going on internally at good old GM. It doesn't do my heart good to see you so nervous, how do I know your nervous you may ask, just by the content of your post. It's OK, I will hold your hand as well, when Holden comes crashing down, even though your main site is GMOUTSIDENEWS. Yes der Bö®gÉr is a very compassionate man indeed. :AH-HA_wink: You know after all is said and done, we should get together and have a pint and a laugh, I'm sure we would have a very stimulating conversation indeed. Give my love to MonaroSS and a BIG kiss to JoeT from me, no tongue though please!

G'day M8t, Bö®gÉr starts to sing as he walks away "Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda Who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda, with me And he sang as he watched and waited 'til his billy boiled, "Who'll come ..."

If you want to show compassion for your "brothers and sisters" you shouldn't be advocating trying to kill Holden, or at the very least you should keep advocate to Zeta alive.

No doubt two Camaros would look better than one in front of your doublewide.

Both the Solstice and ST are commuter vehicles at best and toys at worst. No one will know about the ST because Pontiac won't advertise it nationally (for long if at all) because of the low volumes. So, the natural buyer will be the dude who comes in to look at a Solstice but ends up digging the ST. More likely, the ST will find few buyers and a sales run here of about 3 years. About the same time Chief Pontiac hangs up his headdress for good.

Your logic is well, retarded at best, stupid at worst. People won't cross shop a tiny roadster and a large pick-up car. They neither compete with it other nor do they compete in the same segment, or price bracket, or anything for that matter. If you'd pull your head out of your ass and stop using immature stereotypes to attempt to get your misguided points across, and maybe think before you type, you might realize this.

The ST can easily carve out a niche for itself. Someone who is single, married but with no kids, or looking for a second car that can carry weekend project materials or what have you and larger objects that wouldn't fit in a sedan, but doesn't want a sluggish truck that handles like, a truck, would be interested in it. Plus all of the El Camino enthusiasts that are dying to get their hands on one.

[cletus8269]

Has GM ever heard of the Subaru Baja, which only sold 30,000 units in 4 years? How did its own 2 seat SSR do? Will this dog cannibalize Solstice sales? Is GM trying to kill Pontiac?

i think that flopped cause it was an uglier turd than the ridgeline. In fact i think the joker that designed that hunk of trash is probably responsible for the raping and pillaging that has turned the wrx into the abomination it is now...

as for the ssr, being not only scalped by dealers but also being underpowered the first year just set it up to be a near modern day edsel. the 6.0s had the muscle but it was too late by then. the 2006 models may be desirable in 10 or 15 years since only like 8000 were made. this thing will be what the ssr had dreams about being.

[Oracle of Delphi]

This will find more buyers than some are speculating here. Many who've bought the GTO did not buy it because of practicality. they bought it for performance, pure and simple. The same will be done in this case. That and the stealth quality of a limited edition performance....pickup! This will do big, and it will especially be big in southern states....like California. [and by big I mean it will meet thier expectations...probably between 12-15k customers per year.

California is not a Southern state, it's a Western state. Here is what historically is considered The South which includes the Border States (striped area) of Delaware, Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri. West Virginia (had seceded from Virginia after Virginia seceded from the Union) which had a vast numbers of their population fight for the South, even though their state stayed technically in the Union.

Dark Blue states = Union

Light Blue states = Claimed by Union

Orange states = Confederacy

Yellow states = Border states (former Slave states that stayed in the Union but sent troops to fight for the Confederacy)

Tan states = Claimed by the Confederacy.

Kansas = No Mans Land

[Chevy Nick]

As someone else stated, there is a very stong cult-following of the El Camino. There is a crowd out there that love that thing.

Kansas = No Mans Land

still true to this day

Edited January 27, 2008 by Chevy Nick

[cyclonic]

Yes!! Am so happy fou guys, especially you Camino! I'll have one in black, lowered, 20 inch multispoke racing wheels, limo tint...

[Camino LS6]

Yes!! Am so happy fou guys, especially you Camino! I'll have one in black, lowered, 20 inch multispoke racing wheels, limo tint...

Thanks Cyclonic.

I have been waiting for over twenty years for this opportunity and intend to take it now that I have the chance. Despite what those of lesser intellect might say, the ST will sell out as long as it is offered. Holden can only build a limited number of them for export to us and all will sell without a fight. The run may be short due to the kings of idiocy in Washington, but while available, the ST will be a hot product.

Like it or not, El Camino fans are legion. The vehicle was introduced in 1959 for two model years on the full size Chevy platform and then re-introduced in 1964 on the then new Chevelle platform. El Camino then ran all the way to 1987 (with a few 1988s built), having outlasted the legendary Chevelle and its successor, the Malibu. Only the end of the RWD G-body ended El Camino's production run. To liken it to a one-off like SSR, or a compact joke like Baja shows a level of ignorance that would do well to keep its mouth shut.

The ST will sell automatically, much as Pontiac mistakenly thought the new GTO would. Unlike the GTO which struggled to make a connection with its earlier namesakes, the ST's bodyshape and running gear say El Camino in an unmistakeable way. And that is all it has to say to sell out its limited production each year.

[buyacargetacheck]

It's obvious you've never sold cars before. Yes, there are buyers who research everything up and down and know exactly what they want. However, this group is much smaller than the group that is easily swayed by professional persuaders to buy something that's in stock or has a good deal. Left-brained versus right-brained people. It's easy to imagine dealers pushing STs that are piling up like cord wood on buyers who are disappointed to find that the Solstice they wanted (turbo or whatever) isn't available in the right color, price whatever. Nobody leaves the dealership with old wheels and everybody rides.

El Camino enthusiasts? The question is how many "El Camino enthusiasts" find this ST to be an emotional equivalent to the EC of their youth AND who are in the market for a 2 seat car AND who have money/credit? Not many is the correct answer. I remember when the El Camino and Ranchero were cancelled - a total non-event friend. Nobody cried.

Your logic is well, retarded at best, stupid at worst. People won't cross shop a tiny roadster and a large pick-up car. They neither compete with it other nor do they compete in the same segment, or price bracket, or anything for that matter.

Plus all of the El Camino enthusiasts that are dying to get their hands on one.

[Oracle of Delphi]

It's obvious you've never sold cars before. Yes, there are buyers who research everything up and down and know exactly what they want. However, this group is much smaller than the group that is easily swayed by professional persuaders to buy something that's in stock or has a good deal. Left-brained versus right-brained people. It's easy to imagine dealers pushing STs that are piling up like cord wood on buyers who are disappointed to find that the Solstice they wanted (turbo or whatever) isn't available in the right color, price whatever. Nobody leaves the dealership with old wheels and everybody rides.

El Camino enthusiasts? The question is how many "El Camino enthusiasts" find this ST to be an emotional equivalent to the EC of their youth AND who are in the market for a 2 seat car AND who have money/credit? Not many is the correct answer. I remember when the El Camino and Ranchero were cancelled - a total non-event friend. Nobody cried.

You make me look like a saint! :AH-HA_wink:

[buyacargetacheck]

I do what I can.

You make me look like a saint! :AH-HA_wink:

[Satty]

Again, I ask, what guarantee is there that they will all sell and sell at a profit? Thats what GM needs and thats what traditional pickups and midsize sedans do.

[CaddyXLR-V]

It's obvious you've never sold cars before. Yes, there are buyers who research everything up and down and know exactly what they want. However, this group is much smaller than the group that is easily swayed by professional persuaders to buy something that's in stock or has a good deal. Left-brained versus right-brained people. It's easy to imagine dealers pushing STs that are piling up like cord wood on buyers who are disappointed to find that the Solstice they wanted (turbo or whatever) isn't available in the right color, price whatever. Nobody leaves the dealership with old wheels and everybody rides.

El Camino enthusiasts? The question is how many "El Camino enthusiasts" find this ST to be an emotional equivalent to the EC of their youth AND who are in the market for a 2 seat car AND who have money/credit? Not many is the correct answer. I remember when the El Camino and Ranchero were cancelled - a total non-event friend. Nobody cried.

Sir, I know you were looking for a Corvette ZR1, but since we don't have the color you want, we have a nice Silverado that fits your needs. Nope, don't think that works. I'm sure the Tribute is cannibalizing MX5 sales as we speak.

Edited January 27, 2008 by CaddyXLR-V

[Intrepidation]

It's obvious you've never sold cars before. Yes, there are buyers who research everything up and down and know exactly what they want. However, this group is much smaller than the group that is easily swayed by professional persuaders to buy something that's in stock or has a good deal. Left-brained versus right-brained people. It's easy to imagine dealers pushing STs that are piling up like cord wood on buyers who are disappointed to find that the Solstice they wanted (turbo or whatever) isn't available in the right color, price whatever. Nobody leaves the dealership with old wheels and everybody rides.

El Camino enthusiasts? The question is how many "El Camino enthusiasts" find this ST to be an emotional equivalent to the EC of their youth AND who are in the market for a 2 seat car AND who have money/credit? Not many is the correct answer. I remember when the El Camino and Ranchero were cancelled - a total non-event friend. Nobody cried.

You might get more credit in your postings if you didn't pull figures out of your ass in every post you make. Anyone who knows about the El Camino can easily make the connection to the ST. The shape is right, the power is right, the RWD is right.

Not to mention that the Ute (and Commodore) have already reviewed rave reviews from the press, so it's easy to recommend it. It might be different if the cars were middle-of-the-road but they are not, they are excellent.

Once again, you should really think before you type, and for once gets some real facts.

[Camino LS6]

El Camino enthusiasts? The question is how many "El Camino enthusiasts" find this ST to be an emotional equivalent to the EC of their youth AND who are in the market for a 2 seat car AND who have money/credit? Not many is the correct answer. I remember when the El Camino and Ranchero were cancelled - a total non-event friend. Nobody cried.

The answer is, more than enough.

Check out the number of members NECOA has, and you may begin to understand. Some people never understood the El Camino and never will - that's fine. However more than enough do to cover the measly possible production run of 5-10k units per year. If you think otherwise, you are a fool.To a great many people, the El Camino is an icon of the first order. much like the Corvette. And, like the Corvette, it needed very little advertising to meet its sales projections. El Camino was never a piece of bland sedan transportation, it has always been a statement of individuality. Its utility and flexibility, though significant, were never its main draw. Passion is what always sold the El Camino, and passion is what will sell the ST.

If you don't get it, that's fine, take the zero and go home.

[Intrepidation]

[Camino LS6]

*bump*

Just because I'm so happy that the ST is coming!

And to the naysayers:

[pow]

I think fuel economy is key to whether or not a car-based pickup, like the ST, would sell. A V6 should definitely be available, and if it can get the same 17/25 mpg as the G8 V6, that will be impressive for a relatively heavy, V6-powered truck. Hopefully we'll eventually see a more efficient DI 2.8, mated to a six-speed, or a clean diesel.

Edited January 27, 2008 by empowah

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I think fuel economy is key to whether or not a car-based pickup, like the ST, would sell. A V6 should definitely be available, and if it can get the same 17/25 mpg as the G8 V6, that will be impressive for a relatively heavy, V6-powered truck. Hopefully we'll eventually see a more efficient DI 2.8, mated to a six-speed, or a clean diesel.

I agree 100%

I'm sure it'll sell to enthusiasts initially, but it needs more than that to stay afloat.

Hopefully GM cn successfully market and promote the vehicle as a true truck alternative. The promotion for some of the new vehicles is pretty good, but this is GM that we're talking about so I have my doubts.

[regfootball]

The answer is, more than enough.

Check out the number of members NECOA has, and you may begin to understand. Some people never understood the El Camino and never will - that's fine. However more than enough do to cover the measly possible production run of 5-10k units per year. If you think otherwise, you are a fool.To a great many people, the El Camino is an icon of the first order. much like the Corvette. And, like the Corvette, it needed very little advertising to meet its sales projections. El Camino was never a piece of bland sedan transportation, it has always been a statement of individuality. Its utility and flexibility, though significant, were never its main draw. Passion is what always sold the El Camino, and passion is what will sell the ST.

If you don't get it, that's fine, take the zero and go home.

my dad had an elcamino when i was young. it was fun. neighbor has an SSR. it was fun. Some folk like fun sporty pickups. GM will sell enough of these to people that want to haul motocross bikes or an ATV or pull a jet ski with. $h!, this is the type of vehicle they buy just to use as pace cars and stuff.

there really is no reason for them to not do this. anyone pissing and moaning about this is basically just a sour curmudgeon. Did anyone ever stop to think that perhaps this is called a Pontiac G8 (just like the car) so that MAYBE it won't need to be certified for sale separately then (basically saving them a lot of the money to have to do that)?

Which also leads me to think that the wagon has GOT to be here at some point. I will be upset if we just get the truck and not the wagon.

[regfootball]

I think fuel economy is key to whether or not a car-based pickup, like the ST, would sell. A V6 should definitely be available, and if it can get the same 17/25 mpg as the G8 V6, that will be impressive for a relatively heavy, V6-powered truck. Hopefully we'll eventually see a more efficient DI 2.8, mated to a six-speed, or a clean diesel.

a fuel efficient truck that's fun to drive? Yeah, if it had an import badge on it the press would laud it.

the FE on this will be better than the canyon and SSR and full sizers, etc. it will be better than most SUV's. So in a time where fuel economy is the deal, this truck could very well be viewed in that regard.

It could resonate very well with a market that wants a truck, but gets car mpg. Can you imagine 25 highway mpg with v8 power, pulling a jet ski or hauling some bikes? Or some tools and stuff?

Edited January 27, 2008 by regfootball

[jcgable]

Wasn't this slated to be a GMC model or did I miss something?

[Duncan]

a fuel efficient truck that's fun to drive? Yeah, if it had an import badge on it the press would laud it.

the FE on this will be better than the canyon and SSR and full sizers, etc. it will be better than most SUV's. So in a time where fuel economy is the deal, this truck could very well be viewed in that regard.

It could resonate very well with a market that wants a truck, but gets car mpg. Can you imagine 25 highway mpg with v8 power, pulling a jet ski or hauling some bikes? Or some tools and stuff?

Assuming the ST is successful - and I don't think that's a difficult scenario, despite some of the weak arguments raised earlier - it'll be a fine experimental success to tell GM that they ought to bring over the Crewman as well.

I can almost guarantee that on day one, lots of prospective buyers will be asking their dealers, "when can I get one with four doors?"

This also helps to solve the problem of what other products GM might be able to give Oshawa.

[thegriffon]

Except that there is no Crewman for this pickup, and the version to be shown in Chicago is nothing like the 2-door Ute.

[Duncan]

Except that there is no Crewman for this pickup, and the version to be shown in Chicago is nothing like the 2-door Ute.

Lots of Pontiac dealers sell GMCs, right?

Oh, wait. All those buyers are gonna switch to Pontiac Solstices instead. My bad, sorry.

[hyperv6]

I think fuel economy is key to whether or not a car-based pickup, like the ST, would sell. A V6 should definitely be available, and if it can get the same 17/25 mpg as the G8 V6, that will be impressive for a relatively heavy, V6-powered truck. Hopefully we'll eventually see a more efficient DI 2.8, mated to a six-speed, or a clean diesel.

The V6 is a important player as many El Camino's were used as work vehicles int he past. They were used by many managers on work sites for light hauling when it was needed. We still have a few in this area with names on the door.

I myself want to replace a Sonoma ZQ8. I only drive it because they discontinued the Camino. It is as much a car as it is a truck.

I refuse the Colorado as it is a pure piece of junk with the interior it has and the poor styling.

The SSR was a failure brcause the Damn thing was $45,000-$50,000 dollors. If I wanted to pay that much for a 2 seater It would be a Vette. IF the SSR had been $25,000-$30,000 new I would have looked at it. But there is no Chevy truck worth $50,000 SS Silverado or SS Trailblazer included.

I think if GM had to do this car from scatch it would have been a poor move as if they sold all they can It is like the Magnum wagon and has a limited base of 30,000-40,000 Buyer. Now if it has to come in form someplace else and most of the work is already done it is a no brainer to bring it in. GM had little to lose as little is invested. Little risk involved here.

As for it being a Pontiac vs Chevy. It could be a Saturn for all I care as long as it is good looking and available I will go to that dealer. At least at Pontiac it will get more attention and not get lost in the crowd of the many models at Chevy. The ideal choice might be Chevy but at this time it is not the best choice. Pontiac needs product and Chevy does not. If you really like this car enough to buy it You will not be upset because it has been so long since you could buy this kind of car/truck.

If Ford brings in their UTE it could put a lot of focus on the this class of vehicle and what better than to have GM be the first to fire a shot vs being a few years behind like on the Camaro.

If Chevy had a good small truck the ST would be a very hard sell but as of now Chevy does not have a good small truck.

[pow]

If the ST is similar to the Ute, here's how they'll compare...

Omega Ute Manual / Colorado Regular Cab 2.9 Manual

Box length: 73.9" / 72.8"

Box width: 57.2" / 57.2"

Box width, wells: 47.5" / 42.6"

Box height: 19.7" / 18.6"

Box opening: 49.4" / 52.4"

Engine: 3.6L V-6 / 2.9L I-4

Horsepower: 265 / 185

Torque, lb-ft: 251 / 190

Transmission: 6M / 5M

Fuel economy: 17/25 (G8 V6 auto) / 18/24

Curb weight, lbs: 3772 / 3303

Payload, lbs: 1709 / 1547

Towing, lbs: 3527 / 2400

The G8 starts at $27,595, well-equipped; I don't know how profitable it is. A base Colorado is $15,570, with absolutely no equipment. I'd imagine there will be a "work truck" version of the ST, with 16-in steel wheels.

[ocnblu]

Thanks for posting the comparative specs, empowah, but a "work truck" version of a Pontiac ST? I highly doubt that would materialize here. They'll need to be of a higher trim content to maximize profits and fit with Pontiac's brand mission.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

No doubt two Camaros would look better than one in front of your doublewide.

Both the Solstice and ST are commuter vehicles at best and toys at worst. No one will know about the ST because Pontiac won't advertise it nationally (for long if at all) because of the low volumes. So, the natural buyer will be the dude who comes in to look at a Solstice but ends up digging the ST. More likely, the ST will find few buyers and a sales run here of about 3 years. About the same time Chief Pontiac hangs up his headdress for good.

A two-seat roadster is like a pickup truck how? How in the hell do they even begin to target the same customer in the first place? (Oh yeah, I can fit my Can-Am ATV in the back of a Solstice, no problem.) Your logic is irrelevant. But, what can I expect from an absolute idiot who bases his ignorant stereotypes on watching reruns of My Name is Earl.

Edited January 28, 2008 by YellowJacket894

[pow]

Also, does anyone know the percentage of compact trucks sold that are regular cabs? I noticed that a bench seat option isn't available on the Ute, limiting seating to 2.

[GMTruckGuy74]

It should help a bit.

I too have my suspicions that we haven't heard the last of a Zeta wagon.

First off, congrats Camino on your wish coming true. I'm sure you've been doing nothing but day-dreaming about colors and options, and any mods you can perform ASAP!

Second, please PM me the e-mail addresses of the "right" :AH-HA_wink: people at GM that you've been bombarding to make this a reality for you. I need to send them 15-20 e-mails a day to make the G8 Sportswagon a reality for me. I cruised through a not-to-far-away GMC dealership's lot today to take in all of their Sierras (surprisingly, they've already begun to cut-back on their usual stock amount ). Looking at the fuel economy ratings, and realizing gas prices will exceed $3-$4 soon, made me very depressed on the fact I may not end up with what I really want. However, the option of a G8 Sportwagon could make that depression go away

I too have my doubts that the G8 Sportwagon is a dead issue. GM, please don't make me wait too much longer... I'm beggining here!

[Robert Hall]

A two-seat roadster is like a pickup truck how? How in the hell do they even begin to target the same customer in the first place? (Oh yeah, I can fit my Can-Am ATV in the back of a Solstice, no problem.) Your logic is irrelevant. But, what can I expect from an absolute idiot who bases his ignorant stereotypes on watching reruns of My Name is Earl.

Of course, My Name is Earl is probably the only reference most people under 35 have to El Caminos, since their hasn't been one in over 20 years...

[cletus8269]

Of course, My Name is Earl is probably the only reference most people under 35 have to El Caminos, since their hasn't been one in over 20 years...

simple solution, said people need to go to this exotic thing called a "car show". from what i understand about these events, they have a lot of older cars and what not that you just dont see anymore. plus the people there are said to have the uncanny ability to tell you all sorts of ins and outs and history on the vehicles. oh wait you said under 35... doubt they'll see elkys and the like at a nopi meet. nevermind...

[hyperv6]

Thanks for posting the comparative specs, empowah, but a "work truck" version of a Pontiac ST? I highly doubt that would materialize here. They'll need to be of a higher trim content to maximize profits and fit with Pontiac's brand mission.

There was no work version before and no need for one now. Many Construction company owners like their Caminos and bought them loaded. The bed was there just to carry what they needed and not be saddled with a full size truck. But on the other hand full size trucks or SUV's back then were not as nice either.

The Camaino has to be compared to a loaded Colorado. That would price them very close. The Camino diappeard due to the increased sales of the S10.

What would be interesting is to see how the younger people under 40 years will take to the new car since they were never offered anything like this since they have been driving. The action life style would be the way to market this. How about the offical Vehicle of the X games and put a Bike in the back.

[Oracle of Delphi]

There was no work version before and no need for one now. Many Construction company owners like their Caminos and bought them loaded. The bed was there just to carry what they needed and not be saddled with a full size truck. But on the other hand full size trucks or SUV's back then were not as nice either.

The Camaino has to be compared to a loaded Colorado. That would price them very close. The Camino diappeard due to the increased sales of the S10.

What would be interesting is to see how the younger people under 40 years will take to the new car since they were never offered anything like this since they have been driving. The action life style would be the way to market this. How about the offical Vehicle of the X games and put a Bike in the back.

Wasn't the action lifestyle how they marketed the Pontiac Aztek? I love when History repeats itself.

[Camino LS6]

Wasn't the action lifestyle how they marketed the Pontiac Aztek? I love when History repeats itself.

Wishful thinking there.

The ST has the advantage of not being butt-ugly, and it can also perform, and oh yeah, actually carry the toys those with an "active lifestyle" want to take with them.

The ST will sell out easily each year.

Oh, and the under 35 crowd?

Many of them already plan on making this purchase.

Why?

Because they want to replace their El Caminos. :AH-HA_wink:

[Intrepidation]

So Camino, are you gonna debadge and it rebadge it as an EL Camino?

[Camino LS6]

So Camino, are you gonna debadge and it rebadge it as an EL Camino?

If I could afford to buy two I would.

But I love Pontiac and El Caminos, so the ST works for me as is.

Tempting though.