EDMUNDS 'FOLLOW UP' TAHOE HYBRID TEST

[regfootball]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...photopanel..1.*

so Edmunds gets sharp tongued at GM for making a hybrid.

they test it for a lousy 887 miles to come up with a final verdict on mpg, and most of it HIGHWAY where the greatest mpg gains in hybrids are in town. They would not test a prius the same way.

again, biased edmunds. but read it and get your own take.

they can't stand how well executed it drives so they rigged the story to find as many ways to talk negatively about it as they could.

[Intrepidation]

It actually liked it, read the end of it.

In a lot of ways, the 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid shows just how far hybrids have come, because there are no real performance or packaging liabilities that come with the fuel-saving technology. But as we've said before, there's a price to be paid for hybrid enthusiasm, and it happens to be $9,100 in this case. This reminds us that the hybrid is a matter of feeling good about what you're driving, in the same way that people also feel good about lots of horsepower or flashy wheels.

And it's hard not to feel good about preserving seven-passenger capacity and serious towing capability while saving 149 gallons of fuel every year.

They're just saying it's expensive, but go on to say that you get lots of standard equipment and there's also the tax credit.

[RJB]

I love the technology, and the fact that you can still haul alot around. But I do agree the cost of entry is very steep, even with a tax credit this is one pricey vehicle. As you see this technology become more widespread for the consumer obviously the costs will go down over time.

[enzl]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...photopanel..1.*

so Edmunds gets sharp tongued at GM for making a hybrid.

they test it for a lousy 887 miles to come up with a final verdict on mpg, and most of it HIGHWAY where the greatest mpg gains in hybrids are in town. They would not test a prius the same way.

again, biased edmunds. but read it and get your own take.

they can't stand how well executed it drives so they rigged the story to find as many ways to talk negatively about it as they could.

I don't know what article you were reading.

It's not a gushing love letter, but it's certainly a positive piece.

In fact, being critical of the idea of Hybridizing a huge truck that many of its buyers don't truly need in the first place is a legitimate question. And with the preponderance of 24" rims I see on these types of vehicles regularly, the idea of spending extra to be 'green' seems to be something the author is supporting.

Reg, I think you're being a little oversensitive on this one. The questioning of the wisdom of 5' soccer moms driving these things around, even with a 20% increase in efficiency, is certainly legitimate given the fact that our countrymen are fighting in foreign lands to preserve the supply of gas...and the author doesn't even dig that deep on the issue.

[regfootball]

50% efficiency if used in town which is where most Prius were tested by the press for the gaudy mpg numbers

[enzl]

50% efficiency if used in town which is where most Prius were tested by the press for the gaudy mpg numbers

I think you're making a generalization that is difficult to supprt...I have found that most of the auto press has been somewhat critical or at least objective when it comes to the cost/benefit analysis of the Prius...now, the mainstream press is a different story---but that's more of a case of non-car people trying to write a story about something they know nothing about.

IIRC, a bunch of the major motoring rags have been critical of the Prius for not meeting the pre08 EPA numbers in Long term tests...

As for the Edmunds' use of mostly highway travel, isn't it possible that like most of us, the tester took a highway to get home or to and from work? Also, the issue of the Tahoe's efficiency in general weighs heavily on the buyer's planned use.

Regardless, I would say the tone of the piece is positive...which is indicative of the direction most GM press is going these days.

[siegen]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...photopanel..1.*

so Edmunds gets sharp tongued at GM for making a hybrid.

they test it for a lousy 887 miles to come up with a final verdict on mpg, and most of it HIGHWAY where the greatest mpg gains in hybrids are in town. They would not test a prius the same way.

again, biased edmunds. but read it and get your own take.

they can't stand how well executed it drives so they rigged the story to find as many ways to talk negatively about it as they could.

They drove it 40% city, 60% hwy, and it returned 19.3mpg (a bit lacking from the 21/22 rating). It's only 887 miles, which isn't nearly enough to get a good idea of what the vehicle will achieve over its lifetime, but that hasn't stopped you from criticizing the RDX's test-drive mileage. :AH-HA_wink:

For towing capability, passenger hauling, and mileage, there is nothing equal to the Tahoe hybrid, except maybe a diesel minivan.

[VenSeattle]

questioning of the wisdom of 5' soccer moms driving these things around, even with a 20% increase in efficiency, is certainly legitimate given the fact that our countrymen are fighting in foreign lands to preserve the supply of gas...

I thought they were fighting terrorism... oh yeah... oops.

I agree with your perspective more than the stated argument.

[regfootball]

it's so sweet.....I have a stalker........

[enzl]

it's so sweet.....I have a stalker........

nah, you're just misinformed more than most here. :wink:

[pow]

For towing capability, passenger hauling, and mileage, there is nothing equal to the Tahoe hybrid, except maybe a diesel minivan.

Uhh, have you ever tried sitting in the third-row of a Tahoe? The lack of a footwell means your knees are level with your face; a Lambda, a GL320 CDI, any minivan, even a Highlander Hybrid would be better suited for carrying seven people.

The Tahoe Hybrid's primary strength or selling point seems to be towing.

[regfootball]

car and driver got 19 mpg. what a midsize car gets. but they jump in the piling on bit to say

"12 mpg is woeful, and 19 mpg isn't much to write home about either"

WTF? they increased their tahoe test mileage from 12 to 19 and it's NOT something to write home about? 50% better mileage? WTF?

on the mercedes GL which has gotten them like 21 mpg

"It makes you wonder why other automakers aren't fitting diesel engines into trucks"

well no f-king $h!, dumbasses, we JUST got clean diesel, and diesel is NOT CHEAP, either for the engine or the fuel. Plus, the left coasters keep raising the emissisons so no fricking diesel will pass without adding a bunch of expensive crap on the car. (your blessed mercedes JUST GOT THE BLUETEC!!!) AND we've had E85 and have had diesel in our pickups and just NOW you discover diesel? What a bunch of dumbasses. And like GM doesn't have a new diesel in the works?

They say it saves 300 gallons a year. 5 year payback (did they factor in the extra equipment in the hybrid)?

quicker payback than you'll see in a Prius or a Civic hybrid.

On one test loop that averaged 43 mph, they got 23 mpg with the tahoe hybrid compared to 18 for a similar yukon.

People, 23 mpg for a vehicle like this is VERY GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and its ok for a WRX to get 17? but 19 is not good for a tahoe?

Edited January 26, 2008 by regfootball

[siegen]

Uhh, have you ever tried sitting in the third-row of a Tahoe? The lack of a footwell means your knees are level with your face; a Lambda, a GL320 CDI, any minivan, even a Highlander Hybrid would be better suited for carrying seven people.

The Tahoe Hybrid's primary strength or selling point seems to be towing.

What I meant was doing all three things at once. Each thing as itself is not astonishing.

I take it the rear axle eats into the 3rd row seat room quite a bit... Whelp, time for GM to go unibody! :AH-HA_wink: :AH-HA_wink:

[regfootball]

tahoe is a truck. a real truck. that uses a frame.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I don't know what article you were reading.

It's not a gushing love letter, but it's certainly a positive piece.

In fact, being critical of the idea of Hybridizing a huge truck that many of its buyers don't truly need in the first place is a legitimate question. And with the preponderance of 24" rims I see on these types of vehicles regularly, the idea of spending extra to be 'green' seems to be something the author is supporting.

Reg, I think you're being a little oversensitive on this one. The questioning of the wisdom of 5' soccer moms driving these things around, even with a 20% increase in efficiency, is certainly legitimate given the fact that our countrymen are fighting in foreign lands to preserve the supply of gas...and the author doesn't even dig that deep on the issue.

3 words: Freedom Of Choice

Small but critical fuel economy improvement

LMFAO... That right there tells me that the write up is 'fixed' It doesn't surprise me though... After all, Edmunds is on the SUV hating left coast and they would NEVER want to spread the virtues of a Tahoe hybrid. They don't want people to have the freedom to choose the Tahe Hybrid, it's against their personal agendas.

And why the hell would you test a Tahoe Hybrid on the highway 60% of the time? (Where the system probably isn't even working) Is this a review of the aerodynamics?

I'll tell you why; to skew the results of the test in your favor. I don't remember reading any 'mostly highway' mileage tests for the Prius.

Compromised approach angle

Yeah.... Because Tahoe Hybrid owners are definitely going to be hitting the dunes on the wekends.

The hybrid Tahoe will never get the respect that it deserves in the media and that's because this whole mess isn't about saving the environment, it's about controlling the buying dollars, interests, opinions and consumption of the american public. That's not even considering it from the anti-Detroit perspective.

Edited January 26, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[enzl]

3 words: Freedom Of Choice

Perhaps I've got a couple of additional years of 'perspective'---but freedom of choice doesn't mean society or individuals automatically approve of all choices---there are many curbs on freedom of choice: taxes, zoning regs, laws---for excellent reasons.

I choose to believe that my actions may intentionally or accidentally impact others and guide my choices accordingly. Most others do, too.

But, obviously, you are free to chose to believe otherwise! In the future, when others (be it family, co-workers or neighbors) are dependent upon your choices, you might revise that opinion.

[pow]

Perhaps I've got a couple of additional years of 'perspective'---but freedom of choice doesn't mean society or individuals automatically approve of all choices---there are many curbs on freedom of choice: taxes, zoning regs, laws---for excellent reasons.

I choose to believe that my actions may intentionally or accidentally impact others and guide my choices accordingly. Most others do, too.

But, obviously, you are free to chose to believe otherwise! In the future, when others (be it family, co-workers or neighbors) are dependent upon your choices, you might revise that opinion.

And I quote...

I agree 100%

That's individualist attitude I'm referring to when I always complain about 'spoiled americans'

I'm all for freedom of choice and being an individual, but at what point is it going to become detrimental to our well being. I, for one, think we've already passed it.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

And I quote...

And your point is?

How is buying a hybrid Tahoe detrimental to our society?

Last I heard the whole point of buying a hybrid was so everyone could live in a bed of roses and such? Buying a hybrid SUV or riding a hybrid GM bus just amplifies the savings.

[enzl]

And your point is?

How is buying a hybrid Tahoe detrimental to our society?

Last I heard the whole point of buying a hybrid was so everyone could live in a bed of roses and such? Buying a hybrid SUV or riding a hybrid GM bus just amplifies the savings.

Wow. Hypocritical is one thing.

Forgetting you just took nearly the opposite position 1 hour before.

Priceless.

And to clarify for you, since reading comprehension is not your forte: I was speaking of the hypothetical Soccer Mom driving one of these by herself...I would think that an alternative 'choice' might be something a hell of a lot more efficient than either a Tahoe or Tahoe Hybrid--since we are at war to feed our appetite for fossil fuels.

It's about dumb choices idiots make and the rest of us who have to live with them. It's the fact that you probably lie within the former group and are clueless as to your membership.

Perhaps a quick read of the 'tragedy of the commons' might enlighten you, FoG?

Edited January 26, 2008 by enzl

[gm4life]

Could be worse. Could be better... But could have been so much worse...

[regfootball]

And your point is?

How is buying a hybrid Tahoe detrimental to our society?

Last I heard the whole point of buying a hybrid was so everyone could live in a bed of roses and such? Buying a hybrid SUV or riding a hybrid GM bus just amplifies the savings.

camry or tahoe hybrid, same mpg. but its still demonic to drive the tahoe. can't decide if it's because it's an SUV or if it's because it's not a toyota.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Wow. Hypocritical is one thing.

Forgetting you just took nearly the opposite position 1 hour before.

Priceless.

My point one hour ago was the idea that at some point our freedom of choice becomes a bad thing. As of right now I really don't see how buying an SUV is detrimental to our well being. What? Because of the THEORY of global warming? Oh, that's right I guess you're one of the people who buys into everything he reads. You sure don't waste any time taking a small minded approach with your judgement of people. Is it because of the war? The war isn't over oil and it never was. It was about "overthrowing a dictator and eliminating terror" Of course, I guess that's a matter of opinion and what agenda your pushing. And we all know that differing opinions are not allowed in your little world.

And to clarify for you, since reading comprehension is not your forte: I was speaking of the hypothetical Soccer Mom driving one of these by herself...

Once again, what's the problem? Unless, of course, you use the war as an excuse to be an environmentalist.

I would think that an alternative 'choice' might be something a hell of a lot more efficient than either a Tahoe or Tahoe Hybrid--since we are at war to feed our appetite for fossil fuels.

Oh... THERE IT IS! It's not the argument that is flawed, just your logic.

It's about dumb choices idiots make and the rest of us who have to live with them. It's the fact that you probably lie within the former group and are clueless as to your membership.

Really? You know that much about my lifestyle to classify me as an idiot that makes dumb choices? Oh, that's right, I forgot about your habit of openly stereotyping people based on identities that they build online. Identities that are as fake as the reality that you apparently dwell in.

For the record; I drive a Ford Focus... Chalk another gross miscalculation up to enzl and his excellent judgement.

FWIW, I knew you were sore about losing your little war that you tried to wage on me, but seriously, it's just getting funny now. I've suceeded in making you a troll becuse your 'passion' overrides your logic! How great is that!

Edited January 27, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Intrepidation]

Children, behave

It wasn't a negative review, whether some believe it or not. AT the same time though it wasn't as positive as say, the Sequoia's review, or Land Cruiser and such. This is in light of the fact that neither SUV brings nothing new to the table whereas the Tahoe Hybrid does.

That and, they should have tested the Tahoe Hybrid in the city more, where many of these things will spend much of their lives, and where all Hybrid systems work there best.

Still, they didn't say it sucked, quite the opposite. The system was very seamless and impressive and packaged very well. It gives improved fuel economy (or more importantly, less fuel consumption, not saving money), while still being able to haul a family, their gear, and a boat.

It's just really expensive (although they do mention it's basically fully loaded which explains some of the price and there's a tax rebate).

[enzl]

My point one hour ago was the idea that at some point our freedom of choice becomes a bad thing. As of right now I really don't see how buying an SUV is detrimental to our well being. What? Because of the THEORY of global warming? Oh, that's right I guess you're one of the people who buys into everything he reads. You sure don't waste any time taking a small minded approach with your judgement of people. Is it because of the war? The war isn't over oil and it never was. It was about "overthrowing a dictator and eliminating terror" Of course, I guess that's a matter of opinion and what agenda your pushing. And we all know that differing opinions are not allowed in your little world.

Once again, what's the problem? Unless, of course, you use the war as an excuse to be an environmentalist.

Oh... THERE IT IS! It's not the argument that is flawed, just your logic.

Really? You know that much about my lifestyle to classify me as an idiot that makes dumb choices? Oh, that's right, I forgot about your habit of openly stereotyping people based on identities that they build online. Identities that are as fake as the reality that you apparently dwell in.

For the record; I drive a Ford Focus... Chalk another gross miscalculation up to enzl and his excellent judgement.

FWIW, I knew you were sore about losing your little war that you tried to wage on me, but seriously, it's just getting funny now. I've suceeded in making you a troll becuse your 'passion' overrides your logic! How great is that!

You're missing the entire point.

Which, quite frankly, isn't surprising.

Ignorance truly is bliss.

[pow]

Back to the vehicle again - Edmunds limiting their drive route to only city driving would've resulted in poorer mileage, because the point of a dual-mode hybrid is a direct mechanical path of electricity through a set of fixed gears (the second mode). Unlike most full hybrids, the Tahoe Hybrid actually gets slightly better fuel economy on the highway.

[regfootball]

most test numbers i have seen for the hoehy have been in the 19-22 range.

HY-HOE

Edited January 27, 2008 by regfootball

[pow]

most test numbers i have seen for the hoehy have been in the 19-22 range.

HY-HOE

Edmunds: 19.3 mpg, combined

C&D: 18 mpg, combined, 70 miles

USA Today: 18.2 mpg, combined, 250 miles

Motor Trend: 17.7 mpg city "first drive", 18.2 over three tankfuls, combined

Granted the rags don't pay for their own fuel, so the capabilities they're interested in are likely speed and power, not economy. Hybrids respond well to a different driving style.

Here's a more real-world, prospective-buyer/driver example from the GreenHybrid.com forum; a GM engineer invited a current Escape Hybrid owner for a test drive.

Well, since I was the co-pilot on Pravus Prime's 2-Mode drive, I'll go ahead and add a few things. I'll answer a couple of Bob's questions, but I'll leave the bulk of them for Pravus Prime, since it is his perspective as a 3rd party that is more important.

First, I provided the vehicle for Pravus Prime's test drive (surprise, surprise). When I picked up the vehicle, I reset the Avg. Fuel Economy display so that it would only give the results of my time with the vehicle from Friday through Monday. When I handed Pravus the keys, I had achieved an 18.9 mpg average.

We went on the route that Pravus described. When we returned to the starting point 40 miles later, he had improved the average up to 19.3 mpg. I would describe his driving style on the route as "actively applied common sense". We did not disrupt the flow of traffic, we did not get any horn honks, scowls, or one-finger salutes.

As Pravus reported, we were only able to get EV up to about 18 miles per hour and engine off on decel occurred religiously at 20 miles per hour. After the test drive I spent a little time trying to figure out why we could not get EV up to 28 miles per hour as advertised . I discovered that we drove the whole time with the transfer case engaged. The AWD was set to AUTO. I turned the switch to 2WD and I was immediately able to drive EV up to EXACTLY 28 miles per hour. Engine off on decel happened at EXACTLY 30 miles per hour every time. Between that, and using some of the driving tips I picked up from Pravus, I was able to achieve 19.8 mpg avg by the time I turned the vehicle in. That's compared to a sticker rating of 20 / 20.

[regfootball]

no, C/D got 19 overall. look in the mar 08 issue. a lot more than 70 miles. one part of their test leg they got 23 i believe. read the article.

Edited January 27, 2008 by regfootball

[enzl]

Allocations on the HyHoe based on previous years' Tahoe sales, according to our inventory manager.

Looks like rural and fleet guys will make out well, regardless of total sales regarding # available.