Thought Provoking

[Camino LS6]

Something to think about!!

Very interesting statistics

Subject: A little gun history

You read the contents of this message and

decide for yourself the validity of the information!

Thought you might appreciate this .

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.

From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

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China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

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Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

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It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! In the state of Victoria alone, homicides

with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!

It will never happen here?

I bet the Aussies said that too.

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it. You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens. Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late! The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson. With guns, we are 'citizens'. Without them, we are 'subjects'. During W.W.II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

[vonVeezelsnider]

Very Interesting... Yet nothing has happened in Sweden

[loki]

most of the examples you give is democide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

that same up tick, up talk about in aussie land, is supposedly happening in the UK.

"less guns" doesn't mean it's safer.

not having gun control is how we became a country and what the founders prolly thought about with the 2nd amendment.

[Camino LS6]

I found that on the web without sources cited, so I can't vouch for it.

But, I have always believed that the 2nd ammendment was put there to protect us from the worst excesses of our own government.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Yeah, try to take my guns from me....

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Why has our world seemingly been overrun by people that want to dictate our lives for the "greater good"

These people need to leave me alone and let me live my life. Otherwise I might become one of those 'criminals'

[ZL-1]

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

Who wrote this one? Are there people that really believe the deportations and mass killings would not have happened if German people could bear arms?

Edited January 26, 2008 by ZL-1

[CaddyXLR-V]

Gun Control is part of the reason I don't want to leave AZ to move closer to my parents in CA.

[Sixty8panther]

The 2nd Amendment is THE most important, esp. because the longevity

of the 1st directly depends on the 2nd. Just like Charlton Heston said:

From my cold, dead henads!

[Drew Dowdell]

I'd like to see you stand up to the Army's 21st battle division with your twelve gauge.

If you want to bare arms, go for the good stuff.

Tzar Bomba - Largest nuclear device ever detonated.... and was tested at only 1/2 it's designed yield.

[frogger]

Growing up in a country/city where guns are only something you see cops wearing or watch in movies/TV shows, its really weird for me when I spend time in Raleigh, NC where most of my work associates seem to carry them in their gloveboxes or center console.

[Camino LS6]

I'd like to see you stand up to the Army's 21st battle division with your twelve gauge.

If you want to bare arms, go for the good stuff.

Tzar Bomba - Largest nuclear device ever detonated.... and was tested at only 1/2 it's designed yield.

There is a certain level of impracticality to the use of nuclear weapons when quelling internal rebellion. :AH-HA_wink:

[Drew Dowdell]

There is a certain level of impracticality to the use of nuclear weapons when quelling internal rebellion. :AH-HA_wink:

I'm talking about using it to defend against the government.

[A Horse With No Name]

The counter arguement could be made also. There are a jillion people bearing arms in Packistan and Afghanistan, crime is obscenely common, and more guns won't change things.

But I believe in the right to bear arms and like sixty eight said, from my cold dead hands.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I could think of several creative uses for the Nuke though....

Chris

[CARBIZ]

I'm a big supporter of the Second Amendment. I truly believe every American has the right to bear any arms that were readily available in when the Constitution was ratified in 1791.

Try robbing a 7-11 with a musket that takes 20 seconds to re-load and is nearly 4 feet long! Ha!

I am sure that Madison and others would be absolutely horried at Uzis and pistols that are readily available today.

Honestly, I will never understand some people's paranoia about having to own a gun. There simply is no rational reason for owning one in a modern society. Flame away, but owing a gun and living in a condo makes as much sense has having a hay bailer parked in the driveway.

[Robert Hall]

Honestly, I will never understand some people's paranoia about having to own a gun. There simply is no rational reason for owning one in a modern society. Flame away, but owing a gun and living in a condo makes as much sense has having a hay bailer parked in the driveway.

Agreed...I've never owned a gun, never had a reason to...I've always viewed the US gun fixation as a strange rural Republican thing that I will never understand...

[Camino LS6]

Agreed...I've never owned a gun, never had a reason to...I've always viewed the US gun fixation as a strange rural Republican thing that I will never understand...

Well, you are not alone - a great many people don't understand. That doesn't mean that the private ownership of guns is a negative thing, it only means that understanding is in short supply.

Also, to classify gun ownership as a "rural Republican thing " is to miss the scope of things completely.

My position is simple, I don't currently have a use for a gun - so I don't have one. However, if it looks like that right is likely to be taken away, I will secure one immediately.

I take the restriction of personal freedom quite seriously.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Who wrote this one? Are there people that really believe the deportations and mass killings would not have happened if German people could bear arms?

I think Mussolini wrote it!

[ZL-1]

I think Mussolini wrote it!

Since the thread is about guns, it must have been someone of Mussolini's caliber

[CaddyXLR-V]

I'm a big supporter of the Second Amendment. I truly believe every American has the right to bear any arms that were readily available in when the Constitution was ratified in 1791.

Try robbing a 7-11 with a musket that takes 20 seconds to re-load and is nearly 4 feet long! Ha!

I am sure that Madison and others would be absolutely horried at Uzis and pistols that are readily available today.

Honestly, I will never understand some people's paranoia about having to own a gun. There simply is no rational reason for owning one in a modern society. Flame away, but owing a gun and living in a condo makes as much sense has having a hay bailer parked in the driveway.

Because it's fun to just go out for target practice? Just like I own a jet ski because I like to go jet skiing. Whats wrong with owning a gun as a hobby?

[Lamar]

Since the thread is about guns, it must have been someone of Mussolini's caliber

[rimshot]

[ZL-1]

[rimshot]

errrrr.... since English is not my native language, I'll need an explanantion on that one

[Lamar]

errrrr.... since English is not my native language, I'll need an explanantion on that one

You know how, in some old comedies, when someone told a joke or made a pun, you would hear a really short drum solo (usually a snare drum, then a cymbal)?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The reason I own a gun is simple...

People have been getting robbed and shot around my school, so I figure I'll not be a victim. Especially since I average leaving studio at 2-3 in the morning a lot of times.

And my hometown is overrun with drugs and violence now ('wannabe' gangstas and their 'gang wars') so I figure I'll not be a victim.

As far as the rural Republican thing. I'm a country boy at heart and an independent/moderate by nature that currently lives in the main arts district of (5 mins outside of) one of the largest and fastest growing cities in America.

It's hardly my political affiliation or upbringing that inspires my gun ownership.

(Not to mention I'm a huge dude, so if someone is going to fight me, they're going to probably pull some sort of weapon)

Edited January 28, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

If you really don't want guns falling into the wrong hands, improve the economy. That way I'll be more inclined to go to work to put new speakers in my car then mug an old woman to pay for food.

WMJ FTW!!!

[Lamar]

As far as the rural Republican thing. I'm a country boy at heart and an independent/moderate by nature that currently lives in the main arts district of (5 mins outside of) one of the largest and fastest growing cities in America.

Nicknamed "Queen City"?

[Intrepidation]

Katana FTW!

[ZL-1]

You know how, in some old comedies, when someone told a joke or made a pun, you would hear a really short drum solo (usually a snare drum, then a cymbal)?

Thx!

[the_yellow_dart]

I want to see gun control here. I've thought about why - and also, why would my answer be different from everyone else's here?

I think ultimately the reason is that I trust my government. I really can't see the Canadian government committing any kind of slaughter like those listed above. Therefore I want to see the guns gone so things like what happened on Yonge Street just earlier this month don't happen anymore.

Here's some background on the Yonge Street incident. Basically, Canada has a gun registry system. For your gun to be legal, you have to register it in your name and take classes on how to use one. This was supposed to prevent people from using them for crime, because they would be traced through the registration system and caught. Well this incident that happened was this - two guys got kicked out of a strip club about 2am. They apparently were really upset about being kicked out, taking issue with the bouncer who did it. They left the front of the club and went to one of their cars and got a gun, properly registered in his name. They came back, intending to shoot the bouncer. Instead, a 40-year-old father who was walking home down the street from a different bar got in the way of the shot and was killed.

Even our mayor is calling for gun control after that incident. I think it's a pretty clear example that people will be stupid no matter what you try to do to make them accountable.

I don't trust the American government. That is one of the reasons I could never see myself living there. It's also the reason that I would want the right to bear arms if I did live in the US.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Nicknamed "Queen City"?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I want to see gun control here. I've thought about why - and also, why would my answer be different from everyone else's here?

I think ultimately the reason is that I trust my government. I really can't see the Canadian government committing any kind of slaughter like those listed above. Therefore I want to see the guns gone so things like what happened on Yonge Street just earlier this month don't happen anymore.

Here's some background on the Yonge Street incident. Basically, Canada has a gun registry system. For your gun to be legal, you have to register it in your name and take classes on how to use one. This was supposed to prevent people from using them for crime, because they would be traced through the registration system and caught. Well this incident that happened was this - two guys got kicked out of a strip club about 2am. They apparently were really upset about being kicked out, taking issue with the bouncer who did it. They left the front of the club and went to one of their cars and got a gun, properly registered in his name. They came back, intending to shoot the bouncer. Instead, a 40-year-old father who was walking home down the street from a different bar got in the way of the shot and was killed.

Even our mayor is calling for gun control after that incident. I think it's a pretty clear example that people will be stupid no matter what you try to do to make them accountable.

I don't trust the American government. That is one of the reasons I could never see myself living there. It's also the reason that I would want the right to bear arms if I did live in the US.

I agree and disagree...

I mean, I don't trust or like the government but that's beside the point in my mind. (I mean, after all, who am I and why the hell would they care; right?)

Guns worry me, especially with the new 'gangsta/no tolerance' culture really taking hold of the youth here in america. But I don't think the solution is making people give up their guns because then only the criminals will have guns. I think the solution is better economic conditions, more opportunity, more 'class' in our pop culture/media and better education on all fronts.

I'd also like to see the thumbprint technology incorporated in guns as fast as possible. For those of you who watch the History Channel or have seen "Shoot 'em up" you know what I'm talking about.

[jcgable]

It is now time for Jonathon's completely uncertified lesson on the 2nd Ammendment (As narrated by Academy Award Nominee Samuel L Jackson):

Contrary to popular belief, the second amendment was not included in the United States constitution as a measure to ensure people's protection from crime. Rather, it has a much more unconventional purpose. Immediately prior to the beginning of the revolutionary war, the British sought to curtail a possible uprising by forcing individuals to give up their arms. They claimed it was to curtail crime, but the purpose was rather obvious. Therefore, after Britain ceded control over the colonies and the Federal Government was created, the constitution was made with a provision guaranteeing the right to bear arms so that in the event that the federal government became oppressive, people could more easily overthrow the government. What is more interesting, is that these demands were meant to also increase the power of each individual state. The militias would likely have issues with funding themselves by government means, so if a state had to protect itself from the power of the federal government, these weapons could be used to do so. Therefore, any form of gun control issued by Federal mandate goes against the constitution's original purpose.

Now that said, I am against gun control in it's purest form, but I am in favor of much more strict measures of restricting who is allowed to carry a gun. It is far too easy to gain access to one, and I am certain that "crimes of passion" would be almost certainly be curtailed if things such as a mandatory 3-7 day waiting period was introduced and tougher restrictions as to who is allowed access to weaponry is put into place.

On one final note, crime rates do usually increase right after gun control is introduced. That said, assuming Australia is in it for the long haul, the crime rate will drop over time as more and more guns become confiscated and arms are harder and harder to gain access to. The number of repeat offenses from those who attempt to commit violent crimes with guns will probably dissipate very quickly over the next 10 or so years.

[Drew Dowdell]

It is far to easy to acquire a gun. If I should have to take weeks of classes, pass a written test, and pass a competency test in order to drive a car, I should have to do the same with a gun.

Like cars, guns should have to be inspected yearly for proper maintenance. Historic guns not able to pass inspection should be disabled from firing. There should also be a yearly registration fee and gun owners should be required to carry additional liability insurance of a specified minimum amount.

One should have to present a gun license to buy one... none of these under the table cash deals at the gun shows.

Caught with a gun but without the above requirements. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Now... if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to welding my centrifuge.

[Drew Dowdell]

In 3/4 time..

[GUITEAU]

What a wonder is a gun!

What a versatile invention!

First of all, when you've a gun- *click*

Everybody pays attention.

When you think what must be done,

Think of all that it can do:

Remove a scoundrel,

Unite a party,

Preserve the Union,

Promote the sales of my book,

Insure my future,

My niche in history,

And then the world will see

That I am not a man to overlook!

Ha-ha!

[GUITEAU,BOOTH,CZOLGOSZ]

And all you have to do

Is squeeze your little finger.

Ease your little finger back-

You can change the world.

Whatever else is true,

You trust your little finger.

Just a single little finger

Can change the world.

[A Horse With No Name]

The youth culture was brought up, that is a HUGE part of the problem also. When kids play Grand Theft Auto and kill people at random on the video games and live in a culture of violence...

Chris

[Camino LS6]

It is far to easy to acquire a gun. If I should have to take weeks of classes, pass a written test, and pass a competency test in order to drive a car, I should have to do the same with a gun.

Like cars, guns should have to be inspected yearly for proper maintenance. Historic guns not able to pass inspection should be disabled from firing. There should also be a yearly registration fee and gun owners should be required to carry additional liability insurance of a specified minimum amount.

One should have to present a gun license to buy one... none of these under the table cash deals at the gun shows.

Caught with a gun but without the above requirements. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Now... if you'll excuse me, I need to get back to welding my centrifuge.

Meh, I grew up with guns so they really don't faze me.