Awesome! A 350hp C7 Corvette!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industr...-green-instead/

Well, it looks like my reality of not owning a new car and instead relying on classic is getting closer every hour.

[vonVeezelsnider]

[deftonesfan867]

How do we know this information is correct tho?

[Robert Hall]

Reading the article, if it could lose 300-400lbs, then 350hp is plenty... going on a diet is a good thing for sports cars..

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Yeah, but it's the Corvette... Where is the weight going to come from, the car is already very efficient.

Oh, and a few more tidbits to make you guys as unhappy as me

1) If an Alpha Camaro is approved, it likely wont feature a V8

2) Even more 'insiders' are now predicting the death of the V8 around 2014-2015

3) Wagoner believes that it will only take about 12 years to transform our roads into lame, "humming" electric and fuel cell cars.

Yay! No more fun cars! One more reason for me to shoot myself and end this miserable existence.

[Chevy Nick]

It's just bull$h! speculation.

[ocnblu]

Pupils dilated, speaking in Mr. Rogers voice while trying to cover up German accent: "How about a nice Corsa diesel automatic?" :AH-HA_wink: Edited January 22, 2008 by ocnblu

[Toyota.vs.GM]

Look for the Corvette to lose weight but not power(if anything it will gain some more power) also don't be surprise to see a Corvette hybrid :AH-HA_wink: .

[Camino LS6]

Ugh!

Just disgusting.

[zabolots]

going on a diet is a good thing for sports cars..

It's a good thing for MOST cars, especially those sold by GM. The new cars are great but damn they're heavy.

At least they've acknowledged the problem and are starting to address it when designing new cars.

[mustang84]

It's the Corvette! The one car in GM's lineup that should have no compromises is being compromised! I have no problem with dropping weight, but dropping horsepower is like taking two steps forward, then three steps backward.

If 20 years from now "climate change" turns out to be nothing more than a god damn natural cycle, I'm going to ridicule GM like none other. This is bull$h!.

[z28luvr01]

A 350hp Corvette isn't the end of the world - we're not talking about the emasculated 190hp Corvettes of the late 70s/early 80s. The Corvette made do with 350hp as recently as 2004. If the C7 were to have the same hp rating it'd likely be several hundred pounds lighter and probably tip the scales at well under 3,000 pounds (I'm going to put my money on 2800 and change). That would likely give us a faster, much more agile Corvette that *might* actually end up being more affordable.

[NOS2006]

You know, getting the weight to a sub-3000 Kappa-like number is absolutely fine with me. It would allow us to have a less powerful car (say 400 HP base, 500 HP Z06, 600 HP ZR1) though it would probably be a little more expensive due to the use of CF, magnesium, and aluminum.

Just by making the IP leather or PUR would be much lighter than the current thick foam/vinyl it is now. Using a simple steel or aluminum bar for the IP support beam would be cheaper and easier to use than the current Magnesium beam while keeping weight low and stability at its prime. There are many ways to save weight (and money) while maintaining quality I'm sure..

How much does a leaf spring setup weigh in comparison to a strut/spring setup?

Edited January 22, 2008 by NOS2006

[Camino LS6]

The single leaf in a Vette is considerably lighter than two struts would be.

[loki]

what if a next gen 5.xL has power like the 09 hemi's will have? ~380. just use VVT and add DI. it could get 400hp out of something in the ~5.5L area. would something like that be so bad?

[Satty]

The Lotus Exige S does 0-60 in 4.1 with 220hp.

Lotus also has a prototype Exige that runs on E85 and packs 260+hp and goes 0-60 in 3.8.

Some people are just stuck on horsepower numbers, performance doesn't seem to really matter.

Edited January 22, 2008 by Satty

[makfu]

How do we know this information is correct tho?

Short answer: we don't.

Long answer: it likely isn't correct or major details are wrong. We are at least 2 years away, and probably closer to 3.5 years from seeing the C7. These blogs and magazines have little idea what is really going on, but need to fill print. At best, they speak to some "insider", which is usually somebody only loosely associated with a given product, who reiterates ideas being floated (at this stage, there are likely multiple power train and, possibly, platform options still under consideration). At worst, the articles about future product are speculative fabrication, something that is rampant in today’s blogosphere. For historical context, go back and look at speculative product roadmaps which were 24 or more months out that were published by the major auto rags over the last 20 years. Almost all of it is substantially incorrect with regard to details or outright wrong (and I have 15 years of Automobile and 20 years of Car & Driver to back that assertion up).

When they do get it right, it’s largely due to logical extrapolation as most of these journalists have no real access to comprehensive product development plans or anyone who does (that isn’t in fear of major reproductions for violating NDA’s).

[NOS2006]

what if a next gen 5.xL has power like the 09 hemi's will have? ~380. just use VVT and add DI. it could get 400hp out of something in the ~5.5L area. would something like that be so bad?

If we can make the same numbers with smaller V8s (4.7, 5.5, etc.) then why not do it? It saves weight, packs the same power in a smaller package, shows our technology improving, and the MPGs would probably be comparable inch-for-inch.

Some people are just stuck on horsepower numbers, performance doesn't seem to really matter.

+1

[Z-06]

A technologically strong, efficient and lighter Corvette will be a boost to GM's image.

There are two ways to increase performance, going more hp, or going light. I prefer the second route.

Absolute HP numbers mean nothing. If with modern technology and DI if this new V8 will give 30mpg, and yet produce the numbers they are quoting in a lighter package, I am all for it.

Given that the European influence is already making GM heavier and porkier, this will come as a welcome relief.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I have no problem with a little less power...

But the Z06 dropping 155 horsepower just isn't going to cut it.

The article states that the car will likely be slower than current models, so those of you who think performance will be better might want to re-read. If the car actually does perform better with less power, then great!

One positive note from the article: It discusses a 4.7L V8 which might confirm that GM is still investing in V8s (Unlike Chrysler, apparently)

[Z-06]

But the Z06 dropping 155 horsepower just isn't going to cut it.

Again pure horsepower numbers are irrelevant. Like someone mentioned earlier, the strength of the car is reflected in how the power is transferred to do its duty. A less powerful yet more dynamic Z06 can blow off a lot of time on the current Z06 on a racetrack.

The Lotus as a matter of fact was number one on VIR when C&D performed their tests, granted the bread and butter Vette had issues, and that the sticky Yokos had given traction advantage to the Lotus. The point is a lighter car that was able to dance with a car twice as powerful is noteworthy.

[NOS2006]

Here are some numbers...

SIZE -- STOCK -- w/ D.I.*

6.2L -- 436 HP -- 504 HP

5.5L -- 387 HP -- 447 HP

4.7L -- 330 HP -- 382 HP

*based on 3.6L VVT D.I. engine's estimated 15.6% gain over base 3.6L VVT engine

Now imagine where these numbers could be if we came out with DOHC / VVT engines...

Edited January 22, 2008 by NOS2006

[Robert Hall]

I have no problem with a little less power...

But the Z06 dropping 155 horsepower just isn't going to cut it.

The article states that the car will likely be slower than current models, so those of you who think performance will be better might want to re-read. If the car actually does perform better with less power, then great!

There is a lot more to performance than simply acceleration..with a sports car, handling is way more important...and less weight is definitely a good thing for handling.

[Z-06]

*based on 3.6L VVT D.I. engine's estimated 0.156% gain over base 3.6L VVT engine

Now imagine where these numbers could be if we came out with DOHC / VVT engines...

Not trying to be an ass, but it is 0.156 times or 15.6% gain.not 0.156%, it will give ridiculously small numbers gain.

[Satty]

Would anyone really have a hug problem with a remade Corvette in the mold of the Exige/Elise? Keep it FE/RWD, but make it smaller and lighter. Keep the V8, but make it as small and light as possible while using every available technology. The C6 weighs about 3200lbs, which isn't bad, but imagine 2700lbs or 2300lbs or hell, go for the gold and get it down to the 2000lbs of the Exige. With 350hp any of those would be absolute rockets.

[Z-06]

Would anyone really have a hug problem with a remade Corvette in the mold of the Exige/Elise? Keep it FE/RWD, but make it smaller and lighter. Keep the V8, but make it as small and light as possible while using every available technology. The C6 weighs about 3200lbs, which isn't bad, but imagine 2700lbs or 2300lbs or hell, go for the gold and get it down to the 2000lbs of the Exige. With 350hp any of those would be absolute rockets.

Or a 3200 lb CTS and 3400lb CTS-V.

[NOS2006]

Not trying to be an ass, but it is 0.156 times or 15.6% gain.not 0.156%, it will give ridiculously small numbers gain.

I'm dumb.

Would anyone really have a hug problem with a remade Corvette in the mold of the Exige/Elise? Keep it FE/RWD, but make it smaller and lighter. Keep the V8, but make it as small and light as possible while using every available technology. The C6 weighs about 3200lbs, which isn't bad, but imagine 2700lbs or 2300lbs or hell, go for the gold and get it down to the 2000lbs of the Exige. With 350hp any of those would be absolute rockets.

I would have to have it a little bigger than the Exige, so maybe Solstice-size, especially if the rumor is true that Kappa II will grow a bit. Hopefully we can make the chassis of Kappa II lighter and be able to incorporate as much CF and light-weight materials as possible and throw the Corvette on that chassis. That would cut those 2860 lbs down even more, which would already be significant improvement with 300 lbs shaved (not counting the weight of the engines).

Edited January 22, 2008 by NOS2006

[Z-06]

I'm dumb.

Exige:

Wheelbase: 90.6"

Length: 149.5"

Width: 68"

Height: 46.5"

Curb Weight: 2015 lbs.

Solstice:

Wheelbase: 95"

Length: 157.2"

Width: 71.3"

Height: 50.1"

Curb Weight: 2860 lbs.

Corvette:

Wheelbase: 106"

Length: 175"

Width: 73"

Height: 49"

Curb Weight: 3179 lbs.

I would have to have it a little bigger than the Exige, so maybe Solstice-size, especially if the rumor is true that Kappa II will grow a bit. Hopefully we can make the chassis of Kappa II lighter and be able to incorporate as much CF and light-weight materials as possible and throw the Corvette on that chassis. That would cut those 2860 lbs down even more, which would already be significant improvement with 300 lbs shaved (not counting the weight of the engines).

Good comparo. Can you put the MX5 numbers with it? That is another car that is light on the feet but lacks serious powertrain. If they put the M3speed engine in it, they may be upto something.

Edited January 22, 2008 by smallchevy

[NOS2006]

Done and much tidier.

[pow]

Who knows... maybe the side-effects of climate change would be more fun-to-drive, better handing cars.

[pow]

Even Formula 1 is changing... imagine regenerative braking capturing energy for an "overboost" while passing. I'm excited.

http://blogs.reuters.com/blog/2007/07/27/f...one-goes-green/

[ZL-1]

One positive note from the article: It discusses a 4.7L V8 which might confirm that GM is still investing in V8s (Unlike Chrysler, apparently)

My guess is the 4.7L V8 is one of the GenV engine that appeared on the UAW memo: 5 OHV engines and one 6.2L DOHC if memory serves me.

Edited January 22, 2008 by ZL-1

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Again pure horsepower numbers are irrelevant. Like someone mentioned earlier, the strength of the car is reflected in how the power is transferred to do its duty. A less powerful yet more dynamic Z06 can blow off a lot of time on the current Z06 on a racetrack.

The Lotus as a matter of fact was number one on VIR when C&D performed their tests, granted the bread and butter Vette had issues, and that the sticky Yokos had given traction advantage to the Lotus. The point is a lighter car that was able to dance with a car twice as powerful is noteworthy.

Once again, read the article again and then read my post again. The performance WILL NOT BE THE SAME according to this source.

And I'm pretty sure they're right. You can't just drop that much power and expect 300 pounds worth of weight savings to compensate for it.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Would anyone really have a hug problem with a remade Corvette in the mold of the Exige/Elise? Keep it FE/RWD, but make it smaller and lighter. Keep the V8, but make it as small and light as possible while using every available technology. The C6 weighs about 3200lbs, which isn't bad, but imagine 2700lbs or 2300lbs or hell, go for the gold and get it down to the 2000lbs of the Exige. With 350hp any of those would be absolute rockets.

I would support that.

I've always been a Lotus fan! They do amazing things with very little. (Monetary and otherwise)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Electric F1 cars.

Yay! (As I load the gun)

[Robert Hall]

Once again, read the article again and then read my post again. The performance WILL NOT BE THE SAME according to this source.

And I'm pretty sure they're right. You can't just drop that much power and expect 300 pounds worth of weight savings to compensate for it.

Again, though, that source is probably just spewing BS...no one really knows what the C7 is going to be like outside of GM...wait a few years and see..

Edited January 22, 2008 by moltar

[Northstar]

The thing is that the loss in power won't gain that much fuel economy. How about dropping weight and keeping the same power? The C5 got 17/25 with the A4 and 18/28 with the M6, had 350HP and weighed 3250lbs. The C6 debuted with 400HP, got 18/26 with the auto and 18/28 with the manual, and weighed 3200lbs. The 2008 model gets 15/25 and 16/26, but that's under the new regulations. The Z06 gets 15/24 with 505HP. I think it's quite clear that weight has more to do with MPGs than power, when talking about a gasoline-only powered vehicle.

[gm4life]

This is bull$h!. Total bull$h!. I doubt any of it is true... And its stupid speculation but total bull$h!.

[Intrepidation]

There's a lot of technology that can be applied to get big numbers from saller engines. Mercedes new 4-cylinder gas engine is a fine example of that.

[NOS2006]

There's a lot of technology that can be applied to get big numbers from saller engines. Mercedes new 4-cylinder gas engine is a fine example of that.

Elaborate much?

[loki]

Elaborate much?

thier dies/otto concept, i'm 99% positive this is what he's talking about

[loki]

from http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/auto...ws/4220723.html

At the 2007 Frankfurt Motor Show next month, Mercedes-Benz will officially pull the wraps off its DiesOtto engine design. The engine uses every known weapon in the company’s techno arsenal, including an eccentric crankshaft, variable compression ratio (from 7:1 to 14:1), variable valve timing, variable valve lift, direct gasoline injection and twin turbocharging. Under most conditions, this gasoline engine uses compression ignition like a diesel—then spark ignition takes over at higher speeds and higher loads. With all these technologies working together, a 1.8-liter, 4-cylinder engine can make 241 hp and 296 lb.-ft. of torque, and accelerate a large luxury car such an S-Class from 0-62 mph in 7.5 seconds while emitting very few NOx emissions or CO2. Sounds like the best of all worlds to us: performance and efficiency. —Jim McCraw

[NOS2006]

thier dies/otto concept, i'm 99% positive this is what he's talking about

Can I at least get a link? lol

[thegriffon]

Y'all are being panicked about nothing. Rick Kranz has a better explanation in an Automotive News article:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...p;rssfeed=rss01

The 150 hp drop was purely used to as an example to demonstrate the effect of lowering the weight on performance. No hp or engine size targets have been set. Instead Tom Wallace, vehicle line executive for the Corvette, says the aim will be to maintain performance standards but improve economy, probably by cutting weight, which could allow the same performance numbers from a smaller, less powerful engine.