More Zeta : Crewman Ute as GMC

[Camino LS6]

More Zeta info from Go Auto:

Come in Crewman

BIGGER AND

BETTER IN ’08

By BYRON MATHIOUDAKIS in DETROIT

GENERAL Motors product czar Bob Lutz has revealed that GM is set to display a VE-based SUV in the form of a four-door utility.

Speaking to Australian media at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit this week, Mr Lutz hinted that it might herald the unexpected return of the Crewman dual-cab ute in Australia, not to mention a new export opportunity to the United States for Holden.

“We will have a ute concept at the NY show, but that is going to be badged GMC,” he said. “That is a global design study – and a very interesting study in that it is a GMC toughlooking four-door ute that could then obviously be badged as a Holden for Australia.”

In the style of the old VY/VZ Crewman – but beefed up to look more like a US-style pick-up truck – the as-yet unnamed concept vehicle, which is understood to have been designed in Melbourne, will debut at the upcoming New York International Auto Show in March.

“It is very tough looking, with a sport-utility look that is very low, very aggressive looking, a blend between a sport utility and the classic Australian four-door ute,” Mr Lutz enthused.

GoAuto understands that Holden has played a significant role in the development of this vehicle, which uses the global Zeta architecture. Furthermore, if the New York motor show public reacts positively enough, a production version of the concept is likely in the near future.

However, Mr Lutz was also quick to water down speculation that a Crewman will be a sure thing.

“It is not targeted for production at this point,” he emphasised.

Asked whether it will be a replacement for the recently departed VZ Crewman – a car that Holden said was emphatically not on the cards at the ute’s launch last August – Mr Lutz said it was up to Holden to reveal that sort of information.

“You’re going to have to ask (new Holden chairman and managing director) Mark Reuss whether (a VE Crewman) is dead or not, but this concept is basically a reprisal of the Crewman in a more modern form.”

Mr Lutz did explain that the controversial fuel economy legislation that will come into effect might help the VE ute and Crewman’s cause in the US.

“We said to Holden’s designers that if we really have to get much better fuel economy in full-sized pick-up trucks, and we have to go away from framed vehicles to get the lower mass of unitised vehicles, wouldn’t you like to do a really tough-looking Crewman, but that is much lighter than a conventional GMC fullsized pick-up,” he said.

“The first time you see it, you might go ‘Whoa! I’m not sure I like this!’… because it is so tough and masculine looking.

“But the longer you look at the proportions the more right it looks for the type of image that it is trying to portray.”

Meanwhile, the regular VE ute may also get a guernsey at the NY show.

“It’s something that is under consideration, but it can’t be confirmed right now,” Mr Lutz said on the subject.

However, despite speculation that the VE ute may be introduced as a long-awaited successor to the Chevrolet El Camino, Mr Lutz said that it would make more sense as either a Pontiac or GMC-badged vehicle.

GMC previously offered a rebadged version of the El Camino, called the Sprint.

“If we did it, we would want to keep it in the same franchise, and I think that if there is any enthusiasm for that kind of vehicle in the United States, if we brought it, the expectation for that kind of vehicle by the American public would probably be as a Chevrolet, because it would be a reprise of the late and lamented El Camino,” Mr Lutz said.

“But that is the last thing we would do because Chevrolet has been blessed with so

many great products that we are at the limit to what the dealers can focus on.

“So if we put any more stuff in the Chevrolet channel it is not going to result in any more sales because we are at the outer edges of what the dealer personnel can understand and stock and explain and sell.

“And so it would be somebody else other than Chevrolet, and then the question is: would you give it to Pontiac or GMC?

“And that makes very little difference because they are in the BPG (Buick/Pontiac/GMC) channel, where Buick is at the top of that with near-luxury vehicles … and the idea is that Buick would never have something overtly truck-like while GMC is all overtly truck-like with nothing that resembles a passenger car.

“Pontiac would be focused on sporty, high performance passenger type of vehicles, and that’s where the ute fits, that’s where the G8 fits, and that’s where the Pontiac Solstice fits – and that’s how we want to focus that channel.”

Mr Lutz admitted that the fact there is already a Pontiac G8 sedan nosecone that already fits the VE Ute probably helps Pontiac’s case.

“That would be the logical thing to do, since we have already designed all the sheetmetal and it mates right up to the cowl; that would be another reason to go Pontiac because it is all done. No additional investment (is necessary).

“If we decide to take that it would be as currently sold in Australia – a two-door. But the one we will be displaying (at New York) will be the (Crewman-style) concept.”

Quote:

NEW HOLDEN CONCEPT

GENERAL Motors global product boss Bob Lutz has revealed that Holden is putting the finishing touches on a concept car to be shown at the Melbourne International Motor Show next month. Not wishing to steal Holden’s thunder, Mr Lutz would not give any details away about what the concept might be, other than to say that it is one of the best he has ever seen. “(Holden) are working on a design down there that is going to knock everybody’s socks off,” Mr Lutz said. “And I am extremely proud of the design. It will emerge as one of GM Holden’s proudest moments. It is really terrific.” A Holden spokesperson refused to elaborate. Stay tuned.

[Camino LS6]

I've been advocating this type of vehicle for How long now?

This concept is a no-brainer for production.

On a personal level though, it may eliminate my chances for a true El Camino-style vehicle.

Z: can you get The Chevelle Project back up so we can all see what we are talking about here?

[NOS2006]

Easy to convert a GMC to a Chevy though, it's just badge-work...

Great to hear that we might be getting both the G8 ST and a GMC Crewman Ute. Badass.

[z28luvr01]

I've been advocating this type of vehicle for How long now?

This concept is a no-brainer for production.

On a personal level though, it may eliminate my chances for a true El Camino-style vehicle.

Z: can you get The Chevelle Project back up so we can all see what we are talking about here?

At your service

http://www.cheersandgears.com/underground

[Camino LS6]

On this one point in all of the Zeta mess, I congratulate GM for actually utilizing the platform the way it should be done. Zeta has a ton of potential variants built into the design and all should be used across the portfolio. With The Chevelle project we demonstrated how this could be done on the last-gen platform from Holden. Granted, we contained all of the ideas to Chevrolet. Extrapolated to the entire global portfolio, the possibilities are near-endless.

One permutation of the platform perhaps is less well-conceived. As much as I like the new Camaro, its eventual move to Alpha may make more sense. A lighter RWD platform,could really set it apart. A more appropriate use for Zeta may have been a new Chevelle, as was considered at one point. That said, Camaro offered a better Buzz to kick start things, so I can see why it got the nod.

So, from an AWD crew-cab crossover to a pony car, zeta has a better reach than any other GM platform. To waste that would be a crime.

[Camino LS6]

Thanks Z!

[Camino LS6]

Here's a more direct link:

http://www.cheersandgears.com/underground/chevelle/home.htm

Check out our "Independence Series" to see our take on an AWD crossover based on the last gen Crewman.

[Camino LS6]

Independence Series link:

http://www.cheersandgears.com/underground/...ce/overview.htm

[z28luvr01]

A Crewman-like vehicle is a no-brainer for both the US and Holden. With the GMT-355s getting more outclassed by the day, it makes sense for GM to just cut their losses with them and replace them with a lighter weight, more efficient, as roomy, as capable Zeta=based vehicle that can handle the occasional trip to Home Depot. That's the kind of innovative thinking that'll allow GM to clear the CAFE hurdle while still providing desirable vehicles (and not wasting Zeta).

I'd seriously be all over one of these if it came to production.

it's interesting that despite the fact that a certain sect in GM is clearly calling for Holden's demise, GM still seems to value the brand, appointing a valued future executive as its head, and giving it stunning concepts.

[turbo200]

yes a Zeta SUV makes sense in so so many different ways. If they can use expensive materials to get the weight down, offer a more hardcore handling setup, a very profitable and perhaps fuel-efficient lightweight Cadillac SRX would be possible and awesome, with real Cadillac proportions.

Additionally, I've also suggested Escalade should go to a lighter weight platform that would offer all the space of the current Escalade, maybe more, a traditional shape and yet be able to gain some more tension in the design.....something to continue to compete wiht the Range Rover, but offer a third row like the Escalade does, and retain all the imposing presence. Key to that imposing presence is exterior bulk, though, and Caddy would need to find a platform suitable for all these things

Edited January 16, 2008 by turbo200

[Camino LS6]

A Crewman-like vehicle is a no-brainer. With the GMT-355s getting more outclassed by the day, it makes sense for GM to just cut their losses with them and replace them with a lighter weight, more efficient, as roomy, as capable Zeta=based vehicle that can handle the occasional trip to Home Depot. That's the kind of innovative thinking that'll allow GM to clear the CAFE hurdle while still providing desirable vehicles (and not wasting Zeta).

I'd seriously be all over one of these if it came to production.

For most people, this and a wagon based on it, would be a better choice than an SUV of any size.

Put that in your CAFE pipe and smoke it.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Apparently we're doing the compliment sandwich thing with Zeta today....

First the news of the never confirmed Monaro/GTO and now the good news that we might get 2 Utes...

1) I hope the GMC version is styled differently from the ST

2) I certainly hope it isn't the future of all large trucks... Some of us need to actually USE a truck for truck things such as camping, towing, running over Toyota Yari, etc.

[Camino LS6]

Apparently we're doing the compliment sandwich thing with Zeta today....

First the news of the never confirmed Monaro/GTO and now the good news that we might get 2 Utes...

1) I hope the GMC version is styled differently from the ST

2) I certainly hope it isn't the future of all large trucks... Some of us need to actually USE a truck for truck things such as camping, towing, running over Toyota Yari, etc.

I doubt that there is any real worry there. The GMC would look very different simply due to its configuration - even before the brand cues are added. As far as real trucks go, that is a given that they will stay around. This does have the potential to get the casual truck/SUV user into something more sensible though.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

For most people, this and a wagon based on it, would be a better choice than an SUV of any size.

Put that in your CAFE pipe and smoke it.

That fascinates me about Lutz comments...

He says "We need to learn to build enthusiasm around cars that will get us to that 35 MPG target" or whatever...

Then in the same breath, they cancel the G8 wagon. WELL BOB, YOU EVER THINK OF APPLYING THAT IDEA TO SUVS? YOU CAN BRING THE G8 WAGON OVER AND LAUNCH A CAMPAIGN TO GET ALL THOSE SUV DRIVERS EXCITED ABOUT THE EXCITEMENT DIVISION AND MAKE THAT 35MPG TARGET EASIER!

But, I'm sure the SUVs are still money in the bank, where the wagon doesn't gross as much and (depending on currency) could even swing into the negative.

Maybe something else played into the wagon story. Lutz is blaming it on demand and CAFE, but maybe, just maybe, capacity is limited and GM wanted to export more Utes instead of exporting the Ute and the wagon.

They could probably X amount of Utes and wagons or X amount of 2 different types of Utes. Me thinks the business side might be coming out now. And I don't think the story of Zeta or the G8 wagon is over.

Edited January 16, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Camino LS6]

That fascinates me about Lutz comments...

He says "We need to learn to build enthusiasm around cars that will get us to that 35 MPG target" or whatever...

Then in the same breath, they cancel the G8 wagon. WELL BOB, YOU EVER THINK OF APPLYING THAT IDEA TO SUVS? YOU CAN BRING THE G8 WAGON OVER AND LAUNCH A CAMPAIGN TO GET ALL THOSE SUV DRIVERS EXCITED ABOUT THE EXCITEMENT DIVISION AND MAKE THAT 35MPG TARGET EASIER!

But, I'm sure the SUVs are still money in the bank, where the wagon doesn't gross as much and (depending on currency) could even swing into the negative.

Maybe something else played into the wagon story. Lutz is blaming it on demand and CAFE, but maybe, just maybe, capacity is limited and GM wanted to export more Utes instead of exporting the Ute and the wagon.

They could probably X amount of Utes and wagons or X amount of 2 different types of Utes. Me thinks the business side might be coming out now. And I don't think the story of Zeta or the G8 wagon is over.

Any Holden production on top of the G8 is very limited. Probably no more than 10k units. Anything more would have to be built elsewhere, Oshawa perhaps.

I think the GMC would require that sort of volume.

[z28luvr01]

This presents a scenario that I've long advocated - the sharing of production of GMNA and Holden Zetas between Elizabeth and Oshawa as market demands and currency values shift. This quote here is particularly interesting:

“That is a global design study – and a very interesting study in that it is a GMC toughlooking four-door ute that could then obviously be badged as a Holden for Australia.”

So, the "Crewman" is being designed from the ground up as a GMC but could possibly be rebadged and given to Holden also. Stateside production of the Crewman would allow every one sold as a Holden to be sold at a nice profit in Australia (given the current value of the USD$). Depending on the volume, that could offset the potential losses incurred by building a Ute in Elizabeth and shipping it here.

[Drew Dowdell]

Zeta North America/Europe = Build at Oshawa

Zeta Asia/Pacific = Build at Elisabeth

why is this difficult?

[Camino LS6]

The key is getting domestic Zeta lines up and running.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Not going to happen, GM do Brasil, is in complete control of midsize trucks world wide now. The crewman is considered a truck in the eyes of GM. Good try though, I imagine this was put out so the folks at Holden don't riot.

Didn't I tell you 2008 would be fun?

[Camino LS6]

Not going to happen, GM do Brasil, is in complete control of midsize trucks world wide now. The crewman is considered a truck in the eyes of GM. Good try though, I imagine this was put out so the folks at Holden don't riot.

Didn't I tell you 2008 would be fun?

So, you really are that stupid over at GME?

That little crap from Brazil won't cut it- ever.

[turbo200]

so they cancelled the G8 wagon and ute now? that's pathetic

[Camino LS6]

so they cancelled the G8 wagon and ute now? that's pathetic

The Ute isn't cancelled - at least not yet.

Depends on how much power the morons have grabbed.

[Oracle of Delphi]

So, you really are that stupid over at GME?

That little crap from Brazil won't cut it- ever.

They are doing Canyon and Colorado updates now along with Hummer. What does GME have to do with GM do Brasil? :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

They are doing Canyon and Colorado updates now along with Hummer. What does GME have to do with GM do Brasil? :AH-HA_wink:

You tell me.

They can have the Canyon/ Colorado, we need the Ute instead. The 355s are dead in the water here and you know it.

[Oracle of Delphi]

You tell me.

They can have the Canyon/ Colorado, we need the Ute instead. The 355s are dead in the water here and you know it.

That would be a good reason to update them, would it not?

[Camino LS6]

That would be a good reason to update them, would it not?

If you want to waste money. They need to go away - no update will save them.

[Oracle of Delphi]

The Ute isn't cancelled - at least not yet.

Depends on how much power the morons have grabbed.

I don't think anyone has grabbed any power, all these announcements are coming from Mr. Lutz.

[Camino LS6]

I don't think anyone has grabbed any power, all these announcements are coming from Mr. Lutz.

Right.

[Camino LS6]

Ignoring the PCS distraction for a moment, this idea's time has certainly come and should have debuted at NAIAS.

[z28luvr01]

If you want to waste money. They need to go away - no update will save them.

It's weird how investing into Zeta and developing more efficient vehicles off and giving it to as many markets as possiblet to gain economy of scale makes no sense, yet sinking money into the GMT-355s (which will never be as efficient or desirable as even the worst Zeta vehicles) makes perfect sense.

Whoever's calling the shots on these decisions is a few cards short of a full deck. I don't know who it is, but it isn't Lutz.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm gonna call on the GMT355 thing.

Sure, they'll be updated. But anyone with a brain can see that they are too small to compete with the market that the Ute(s) would appeal to. It would take a whole redesign for that to happen and, with things the way they are, I doubt GM would be willing to sink that money into the platform as opposed to just spreading the Zeta variants around.

I don't think anything has really changed, honestly. GM do Brazil has had control of small trucks for a while, the G8 wagon and RWD Impala were never given the official greenlight. And the GTO/Monaro was never even more than a thought.

PCS is just having fun with things that were going to happen anyway. To think that Lutz is losing ground is remiss IMO, because if he were, I think he'd resign and I don't think his buddy Reuss would be in line to replace him.

Like it or not, even an enthusiast like Lutz (and you and me) knows whats good for business and what is a waste. The key to it is walking that fine line in the middle. I'm still confident that GM leadership can do that as long as they don't get too irrational.

Here's a thought: maybe some of these peripheral programs are being put on hold to dump more resources into the Volt. Once we have that little mileage jewel and it's 'friends' we maybe can put some of these programs back on the map.

[Drew Dowdell]

the 355s should play on the global scale, not just here in the US.... and for that reason should be updated.. especially if they'd include the 2.9 liter diesel.

[Toyota.vs.GM]

I'm gonna call on the GMT355 thing.

Sure, they'll be updated. But anyone with a brain can see that they are too small to compete with the market that the Ute(s) would appeal to. It would take a whole redesign for that to happen and, with things the way they are, I doubt GM would be willing to sink that money into the platform as opposed to just spreading the Zeta variants around.

What is called GMT-700 :AH-HA_wink: Edited January 16, 2008 by Toyota.vs.GM

[ZL-1]

What is called GMT-700 :AH-HA_wink:

Are we playing Jeopardy?

[K.C.]

Ok, this makes sense. I'd love a Crewman ute. It would be the perfect truck for me. Despite my postings to the contrary, I do love the Zeta cars and am rooting for them to come here, but I am afraid they can hurt GM. I think the Crewman would be the perfect model for families who need a light duty truck, and would be more fuel efficient in V-6 form than the tradition full sizers. To GM I say, "Bring it on over!"

[GMTruckGuy74]

Where's the "This thread is useless without pictures" smiley? Though GM may not be ready to show the entire truck until March, they still should have released one of their "artist's renderings" with the announcement, even if it was just a "tease" shot.

[Z-06]

the 355s should play on the global scale, not just here in the US.... and for that reason should be updated.. especially if they'd include the 2.9 liter diesel.

Yes 355's need to be updated along with the TrailBlazer.

[Camino LS6]

I have a pretty good idea of what it will look like. :AH-HA_wink:

Maybe I should talk NOS into a Chop.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I don't think anything has really changed, honestly. GM do Brazil has had control of small trucks for a while

Really? Perhaps you should read this, they are in charge of way more than small trucks, they now are in control of all mid-sized trucks as well, which is why Lutz referred to Brazil as being in charge of HUMMER.

Link: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...9&hl=brazil

[Camino LS6]

The only question which matters is who controls GM do Brasil.

Last time I checked, GM was still run from the US.

[Oracle of Delphi]

The onbly question which matters is who controls GM do Brasil.

Last time I checked, GM was still run from the US.

Keep checking! :AH-HA_wink:

[Drew Dowdell]

Keep checking! :AH-HA_wink:

Head Office:GENERAL MOTORS CORP300 Renaissance CenterDetroit MI United States 48265Phone:313-556-5000Fax:313-556-5108Website: http://www.gm.com

[Oracle of Delphi]

Head Office:GENERAL MOTORS CORP300 Renaissance CenterDetroit MI United States 48265Phone:313-556-5000Fax:313-556-5108Website: <a href="http://www.gm.com" target="_blank">http://www.gm.com</a>

Means nothing where it's located, as a matter of fact it's incorporated in Delaware, also means nothing. What matters is, where is the power base? Now that's the question?

[Robert Hall]

I doubt if this will ever make it here..PCS and his evil minions will prevent it.

[Camino LS6]

The ultimate power base are the customers - remember that.

[ocnblu]

The Crewman Ute, here as a GMC, sounds terrific (I cannot wait to see it!), but I also support a true midsize pickup truck from GM sold in many countries, which, through a simpler design, could be sold for less money than the Zeta-based vehicles. GM do Brasil has been building S-10 pickups for ages... Hummer H3 is based on GMT355... why can't they engineer the NG platform... it's the same as Holden engineering the awesome Zeta platform... GM's "homeroom" concept, where engineering for a given platform is concentrated in a specific region of the world.

[derrado]

Means nothing where it's located, as a matter of fact it's incorporated in Delaware, also means nothing. What matters is, where is the power base? Now that's the question?

Well, the power base certainly isn't Brazil. And this is NA market stuff we're talking about. I don't think anyone other than NA GM management and GM Holden cares if a GMC Crewman is sold in NA.

Yes, GM Brasil probably wants to make sure it has a big market for its trucks but... it's crazy to infer from that some conspiracy to keep Zeta out of the US.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

GM is ran from North America...

It's ridiculous to even think otherwise. Even if other "factions" gained control (which I highly doubt) the stock is still american and the final decision still comes here.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Really? Perhaps you should read this, they are in charge of way more than small trucks, they now are in control of all mid-sized trucks as well, which is why Lutz referred to Brazil as being in charge of HUMMER.

Link: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...9&hl=brazil

Same difference.

The question is; do they have anything better than Zeta that can be implemented in a timeframe conducive to CAFE. The answer is no as far as I know. They might control the design of the trucks, but they're not GMNA product planners.

[Drew Dowdell]

Means nothing where it's located, as a matter of fact it's incorporated in Delaware, also means nothing. What matters is, where is the power base? Now that's the question?

the dollars/euros in my pocket?

I put my money where my mouth is. I purchase GM vehicles new. I'm not some guy who will only spend $800 on a 1977 land yacht. I intend to buy a diesel CTS when I get to Germany.

GM keeps this up and I'll become that guy who only buys GM, but only ones that are 20 years old and the CTS-D will be my last new car from them.

We're ultimately the ones with the power. If GM's goal is 12% market share your ideals are certainly the way to do it.