Bunnell: B-P-G may each add smaller vehicle

[wildcat]

To help GM meet new U.S. fuel-economy standards, Buick, Pontiac, and GMC may each add a new smaller vehicle.

According to Jan. 15, 2008 news reports, "Potential additions include a sedan shorter than the Buick LaCrosse, a crossover sport-utility vehicle more compact than the GMC Acadia and a Pontiac small car," said Jim Bunnell, general manager for the division that includes the three brands.

The U.S. regulations "have thrown everything on its head," Bunnell said. "We most likely will need smaller market entries to get in line."

For Buick, could this be the NG Chinese Excelle, due later this year? Have there been rumors that it will be re-named "Skylark"?

[VenSeattle]

Sounds good to me... just don't recreate the "rebadge" fiasco from the past... as Lutz said in previous statements, the 35mpg CAFE is not happening all at once, it's in phases. They don't need to rush cookie-cutter brand-eroding products into the dealerships. After all the work they've done and ground regained, please don't let them do this.

I look forward to learning more of the "Skylark" compact Buick for China. Hopefully it'll exceed expectations and be imported/manufactured here for the US market.

[Brougham-Holiday]

Our local dealer said he would love to have a Skylark to sell to older customers who want a Buick but can't afford the LaX.

[GMTruckGuy74]

Well, maybe this means Alpha for Pontiac after all, and I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that the Pontiac Torrent will become the GMC Terrain (hopefully a lot different than the rebadged VUE being sold in the Middle East).

[VenSeattle]

Our local dealer said he would love to have a Skylark to sell to older customers who want a Buick but can't afford the LaX.

If done tastefully, I'd consider one as a commuter and keep my Park Avenue a few more years (I only have 45k miles so far and she's a 2003) and then trade her in for a replacement in addition to having the Skylark.

Maybe/possibly we could just use the Skylark as a replacement for the Sebring? hmmm...

[ZL-1]

Well, maybe this means Alpha for Pontiac after all

Or maybe it means either Pontiac G2 or Pontiac G3.

[Z-06]

Or maybe it means either Pontiac G2 or Pontiac G3.

G2.5

[Camino LS6]

Looks like a bleak future.

[ZL-1]

G2.5

that looks like a mobile phone model: something like Motorola G2.5

[PurdueGuy]

Looks like a bleak future.

how can more options be a bleak future? Good small cars are the best way to meet the CAFE crap. Otherwise, it means high tech fuel saving tech forced on everyone across the board, pushing prices up for everyone, and likely making maintenance more complex and expensive. GM offering good small cars and people buying them is the best way to ensure that the other cars can continue to exist and you get to have what you want.

[Camino LS6]

how can more options be a bleak future? Good small cars are the best way to meet the CAFE crap. Otherwise, it means high tech fuel saving tech forced on everyone across the board, pushing prices up for everyone, and likely making maintenance more complex and expensive. GM offering good small cars and people buying them is the best way to ensure that the other cars can continue to exist and you get to have what you want.

I might believe that if the zeta product line wasn't being gutted and placed on the altar of stupidity.

[Z-06]

that looks like a mobile phone model: something like Motorola G2.5

Or a software update.

[Z-06]

I might believe that if the zeta product line wasn't being gutted and place on the altar of stupidity.

Although I do not have a strong affinity for zeta. I definitely agree with you that GM is being extremely shortsighted about killing the Zeta.

[PurdueGuy]

I might believe that if the zeta product line wasn't being gutted and placed on the altar of stupidity.

good point.

[Brougham-Holiday]

G2.5

What the Iron Dukes back for 2009 lmao!

[ZL-1]

Or a software update.

Although I do not have a strong affinity for zeta. I definitely agree with you that GM is being extremely shortsighted about killing the Zeta.

In Business speak, maybe they're 'reassessing', not 'killing'

[Camino LS6]

In Business speak, maybe they're 'reassessing', not 'killing'

In other words, they are dicking around - again

Cars like this should have been here in the 90s.

[ZL-1]

In other words, they are dicking around - again

Cars like this should have been here in the 90s.

One dicks around with gf or bf depending on sexual orientation. This is just about cars!

GM has new fuel economy rules to comply with, as a US maker they'll never want to be in the position where they have to pay huge CAFE fines (also whatever money they make has to be used in product not in paying fines). I'd like to see RWD cars too, but I understand where GM is coming from a business standpoint. Out of curiosity: would you be happy with an Alpha car?

[Camino LS6]

One dicks around with gf or bf depending on sexual orientation. This is just about cars!

GM has new fuel economy rules to comply with, as a US maker they'll never want to be in the position where they have to pay huge CAFE fines (also whatever money they make has to be used in product not in paying fines). I'd like to see RWD cars too, but I understand where GM is coming from a business standpoint. Out of curiosity: would you be happy with an Alpha car?

No.

Zeta is exactly what I've been waiting for for years. It is the perfect size for me.

I'll just bail out on new cars if these don't materialize.

[VenSeattle]

Okay... well, back onto small cars for Buick, Pontiac, & GMC... the off-topic subject is being strung across several other topics as it is...

I hope the Skylark comes. Remember the article that stated Buick was getting Alpha? I'm wondering if that was a misquote or not... Delta or Alpha... doesn't matter to me. I would like to see a compact Buick again.

[Camino LS6]

Why not a Cadillac STS V6 instead? With its absurd discounts (between $5k-$10k depending on where you're at) an STS with a few options is not going to be much more expensive than a loaded G8.

I just don't care for the Cadillac style : I can respect it, but it doesn't turn me on. Luxury cars have never been my thing.

Also, I flat can't stand sedans - so even the G8 is out for me.

Give me a RWD, v8-powered, manually shifted, coupe, convertible, wagon, or Ute in Pontiac form and I'm there.

[Camino LS6]

Add "under 40k" to the recipe.

[Camino LS6]

Okay... well, back onto small cars for Buick, Pontiac, & GMC... the off-topic subject is being strung across several other topics as it is...

I hope the Skylark comes. Remember the article that stated Buick was getting Alpha? I'm wondering if that was a misquote or not... Delta or Alpha... doesn't matter to me. I would like to see a compact Buick again.

Sorry about the thread hijack, Ven. I'm just royally PO'd right now.

A small Buick would make some sense, as would an Alpha Pontiac and the Torrent going to GMC. None of them for me, thanks - but I can see the logic.

[Z-06]

One dicks around with gf or bf depending on sexual orientation. This is just about cars!

GM has new fuel economy rules to comply with, as a US maker they'll never want to be in the position where they have to pay huge CAFE fines (also whatever money they make has to be used in product not in paying fines). I'd like to see RWD cars too, but I understand where GM is coming from a business standpoint. Out of curiosity: would you be happy with an Alpha car?

What if they gripe and say RWD Alpha is dead because of "Fuel Economy"? We will see nothing but FWD small POS.

GM needs to survive through the CAFE, but they are becoming extra defensive.

[ZL-1]

What if they gripe and say RWD Alpha is dead because of "Fuel Economy"? We will see nothing but FWD small POS.

GM needs to survive through the CAFE, but they are becoming extra defensive.

I think people are, in general, overreacting. GM needs to have a balanced product portfolio and to me that includes RWD, FWD and AWD products. Those RWD, FWD and AWD products will come and what's happening is GM is making business decisions in a context where the company has taken big hits over the last 30 years and does not have money to throw at anything that moves. If Toyota wants to please itself engineering a new V-10 or V-12, they have the cash to do it. GM cannot afford that, it needs to prioritize. Lutz prioritized the GMT900s, the Lambdas, and the rewoked Malibu ahead of the RWD cars, didn't he?

On the subject of the small-car issue, a Buick below the LaCrosse might be interesting. Maybe Buick and Saturn+Saab would make an interesting set of brands: One offering American flavoured cars, the other two as the Euro-DNA brands. That pairing, and Buick's relevance in China might justify overlaping brands as premium offerings (premium in the sense of being between volume Chevrolet and luxury Cadillac).

Edited January 15, 2008 by ZL-1

[Camino LS6]

I think people are, in general, overreacting. GM needs to have a balanced product portfolio and to me that includes RWD, FWD and AWD products. Those RWD, FWD and AWD products will come and what's happening is GM is making business decisions in a context where the company has taken big hits over the last 30 years and does not have money to throw at anything that moves. If Toyota wants to please itself engineering a new V-10 or V-12, they have the cash to do it. GM cannot afford that, it needs to prioritize. Lutz prioritized the GMT900s, the Lambdas, and the rewoked Malibu ahead of the RWD cars, didn't he?

On the subject of the small-car issue, a Buick below the LaCrosse might be interesting. Maybe Buick and Saturn+Saab would make an interesting set of brands: One offering American flavoured cars, the other two as the Euro-DNA brands. That pairing, and Buick's relevance in China might justify overlaping brands as premium offerings (premium in the sense of being between volume Chevrolet and luxury Cadillac).

I'd rather see them actually make an effort at getting B-P-G right than flipping brands around again.

[ZL-1]

I'd rather see them actually make an effort at getting B-P-G right than flipping brands around again.

Depends on what right means and on how much money it takes to do that.

[Northstar]

I'm not sure how I feel about a smaller Buick. I'd rather see a TE-based Buick than a Delta-based Buick. I think it would light up the sales charts (think how well the Enclave would sell if it was priced from $26-36k instead of $33k-43k), though I guess GMC is going to have the Theta SUV. I'd rather see GMC get something more truck-like (GMT355 based?) and let Buick have the crossover vehicle. Even if the GMC was Theta-based still, the Buick would be more upscale on TE and the GMC could still pretend to be more rugged, a la the Patriot or Nitro.

As for the Pontiac, if the small car is not Alpha-based, might as well just kill the brand, I say.

[Camino LS6]

Depends on what right means and on how much money it takes to do that.

Well they certainly haven't tried yet. One car here and there won't get the job done.

[Z-06]

I think people are, in general, overreacting. GM needs to have a balanced product portfolio and to me that includes RWD, FWD and AWD products. Those RWD, FWD and AWD products will come and what's happening is GM is making business decisions in a context where the company has taken big hits over the last 30 years and does not have money to throw at anything that moves. If Toyota wants to please itself engineering a new V-10 or V-12, they have the cash to do it. GM cannot afford that, it needs to prioritize. Lutz prioritized the GMT900s, the Lambdas, and the rewoked Malibu ahead of the RWD cars, didn't he?

On the subject of the small-car issue, a Buick below the LaCrosse might be interesting. Maybe Buick and Saturn+Saab would make an interesting set of brands: One offering American flavoured cars, the other two as the Euro-DNA brands. That pairing, and Buick's relevance in China might justify overlaping brands as premium offerings (premium in the sense of being between volume Chevrolet and luxury Cadillac).

Z, I am not denying that they need to have a Balanced portfolio. A RWD large car with limited number of bodies including coupes, pickup bed, wagon would have made a perfect balance in US. There is a market for RWD large cars.

With this decision they are going back to square one where they did not have any strategy. Small cars are good. But they will not be seen until at least 2012 (the way GM development works). They have already invested a lot in the Zeta, and the volume is not going to come unless some cars find their way into US. Australia, middle east and China cannot support the Zeta platform into profitability.

The way this news sounds like that it is in conceptual phase, so forget getting that platform in next year. Plus, some wise guy in GM will also think, hey we already have Delta II in advanced design phase, why not blob these three more in "since RWD<FWD in fuel economy" and out will go the Alpha.

[K.C.]

I'm all for a small end Buick, if it meets the expectations that the Enclave has set.

[VenSeattle]

I'm all for a small end Buick, if it meets the expectations that the Enclave has set.

I think that's completely do-able.

Look at a potential competitor... like the Camry 4-cyl. It ranges from the $18.5k CE to the $25k XLE.

I think if Buick had a premium compact sedan that's smaller than Camry, approx 200hp 4-cyl, higher quality materials, additional available features*, and Enclave inspired styling then Buick would have a strong contender in the market.

Buick's standard longer warranty, standard Quiet-Tuning, standard Turn-by-Turn navigation, standard XM radio, & standard OnStar would only improve its chances.

*Additional available features could include:

AWD (All-Wheel Drive), Memory leather seats, Xenon headlamps, automatic headlamps, LED tail lights, Satellite navigation... What ever you do, please use the same vendor as Enclave for the interior wood trim. It's at least convincing.

[Oracle of Delphi]

As for the Pontiac, if the small car is not Alpha-based, might as well just kill the brand, I say.

Be careful what you ask for!

[Northstar]

Be careful what you ask for!

Why? I would rather Pontiac was killed than sell boring FWD sedans and stupid minivans and SUVs like they have for the past 10 years with the exception of the Firebird, GTO, Solstice, and now G8. There's no point to have a Pontiac lineup consisting of FWD sedans and coupes and the Solstice and G8. Sky already is a better Solstice and the G8 could go to Buick or Chevy.

[wildcat]

Maybe something for Pontiac is coming from Brazil. Chevy can't get everything, can it?