California Seeks Thermostat Control

[regfootball]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/us/11con...mp;partner=IWON

Next year in California, state regulators are likely to have the emergency power to control individual thermostats, sending temperatures up or down through a radio-controlled device that will be required in new or substantially modified houses and buildings to manage electricity shortages.

The proposed rules are contained in a document circulated by the California Energy Commission, which for more than three decades has set state energy efficiency standards for home appliances, like water heaters, air conditioners and refrigerators. The changes would allow utilities to adjust customers’ preset temperatures when the price of electricity is soaring. Customers could override the utilities’ suggested temperatures. But in emergencies, the utilities could override customers’ wishes.

Final approval is expected next month.

“You realize there are times — very rarely, once every few years — when you would be subject to a rotating outage and everything would crash including your computer and traffic lights, and you don’t want to do that,” said Arthur H. Rosenfeld, a member of the energy commission.

Reducing individual customers’ electrical use — if necessary, involuntarily — could avoid that, Dr. Rosenfeld said. “If you can control rotating outages by letting everyone in the state share the pain,” he said, “there’s a lot less pain to go around.”

While the proposals have received little attention in California, the Internet and talk radio are abuzz with indignation at the idea.

[NOS2006]

Chaos? Yeah, something like that.

[Camino LS6]

California: Individual freedom ends here.

[NOS2006]

California: Individual freedom ends here.

Speaking of:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/four-states-to...s-licenses.html

Bull$h!!

[Camino LS6]

Speaking of:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/four-states-to...s-licenses.html

Bull$h!!

The worst kind of bull$h! at that.

[loki]

The worst kind of bull$h! at that.

they put them in passports, you can break the chip with a hammer and it's supposed to still be legal.

if this happens, will it be in commercial places? i bet not. this is horrible. your house becomes part of state property if this happens. and next they'll require remote switches for lights, then water use, then you won't be able to flush or take a shower at your own will.

if you don't have control of what you do in your house, more taxes will come cause i wouldn't expect to pay any sort of energy bill for it.

california's law makers are so socialist.... *shakes head*

[siegen]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

- Benjamin Franklin

[Camino LS6]

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

- Benjamin Franklin

QFT

[Sixty8panther]

Disgusting, another reason I need to hoarde a bunch of classic GM cars,

move to Maine, build a big cabin in the woods and live off the grid.

[Drew Dowdell]

"Willkommen nach Deutschland"

Those three words will never sound so sweet.

[CARBIZ]

Tsk, tsk, boys and girls. Ever heard the term 'trial balloon?' Our legislators are finally waking up to the fact that we have not invested in energy infrastructure in, like 30 years. Our nuclear power plants are ancient, our coal fired plants are Public Enemy #1 and natural gas is going to become as expensive as powdered gold - where is the future electricity going to come from and who is going to pay for it?

The future looks grim, indeed. YOUR government is bankrupt in Iraq; my government is bankrupt conducting itself like a First World power. (Example: headline news today - Ottawa has spent over $1million trying to deport 1 illegal Indian, who has learned to work the system for 3 years). So, since neither of our governments have any money left, where are the roads, airports and power plants of the 21st century going to come from? Greenpeace and the Sierra Club block everything and tie them up in the courts until the price tag triples!

This idea of 'smart' meters has been raised here. The idea makes a lot of sense, actually. Rather than the utility having to arbitrarily decide which sectors of the city to 'black-out' or 'brown-out' (as happens in Brazil a lot), people who have installed 'smart meters' (which, BTW, also give them reduced electricity rates - the carrot and stick approach), will have their power reduced.

Listen, I don't want to preach like a Greenpeacer, but when you travel ANYWHERE else in the world, you will see that their electrical power consumption is much less than hours. Hell, the hotels in Brazil even have motion sensors in the hallways - try walking into a darkened hallway at 1 a.m. when you are drunk in a strange city!

Pick your poison, boys and girls, because as long as our governments fund everything EXCEPT the nuts and bolts of what they should be funding, we are going to be losing our freedoms and luxuries one by one. Mark my words.

[Drew Dowdell]

hey, I'm all for smart metering and smart thermostat control. Smart metering isn't available in my area. I've been looking into home automation for a while now as a way to control utility costs.

Left the house and left a light on? Log on to your house's webpage and turn it off. I have the web on my phone.

Not going home right after work? Change the web thermostat so that the place heats up later. Timers can't do that.

I already have the desire <as do many others> to control my utility usage. What I don't want is the utilities controlling my usage.

[CARBIZ]

Well, then, in the intereste of almighty Freedom, 20 cents a kw/hr oughta do it. Won't see many lights left on after that!

Like it or not, either prices will dictate our actions, or the government will. Either way, we had better 'voluntarily' start cutting back on all our energy use now, or have it forced on us. (possibly by China.)

[Drew Dowdell]

Well, then, in the intereste of almighty Freedom, 20 cents a kw/hr oughta do it. Won't see many lights left on after that!

Like it or not, either prices will dictate our actions, or the government will. Either way, we had better 'voluntarily' start cutting back on all our energy use now, or have it forced on us. (possibly by China.)

Or, we could... ya know... invest in new, clean, renewable technology.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Remember what I was preaching a few weeks ago about Politics and Environment mixing to become ONE CENTRAL government that controls everything?

Look no further than this, for it is the beginning of the end.

Soon everything will be regulated by the government, and ya know what that means right? CORRUPTION: meaning we (the working class) will all get screwed whilst the upper crust continues to "widen the financial spread" and live comfortably. I've been schooled in this for many years through my studies in Sociology. It's pretty scarey and ironically funny to see it finally happening.

Should've never involved politics in environment, it created a whole new, very potent weapon for those who want to control us. They can't do it with military force, but they CAN convince us to turn on our instincts and "do what's best for eveyone". I swear to God, the public is so ignorant that it's as easy as coaxing a 3 year old to put up his toys.

Just as the bible waiving naysayers predict... It appears that we WILL be controlled by one central government via computer chips and barcodes. These will be used to keep us 'in our places' at the bottom of the ladder.

P.S. Anybody want to buy gun? I can get anything you want. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited January 11, 2008 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Drew Dowdell]

What a wonder is a gun!

What a versatile invention!

First of all, when you've a gun- *click*

Everybody pays attention.

And all you have to do

Is squeeze your little finger.

Ease your little finger back-

You can change the world.

Whatever else is true,

You trust your little finger.

Just a single little finger

Can change the world.

[PurdueGuy]

There are just short of 100 applications for new nuclear power construction permits being prepared to be filed with the NRC. How well those go through, get approved, and becoming real, working power plants will tell a lot about our energy future. Personally, I'm sitting pretty here in SE Idaho @ 5 cents per kw/hr. The new nuclear plant rated "most likely to succeed" in the bunch will be in SW Idaho. We don't really need all that electricity - a lot of it will be sold to Cali and others that can't keep up with themselves. :wink:

Despite being a pretty good situation energy-wise, I am still looking at ways to conserve. Burnt out light bulbs are generally being replaced in my house with compact fluorescents (though the warm-up period bugs me). I'm insulating the garage (it's about half done as of 15 minutes ago). I'm all for the gov't pushing conservation in the right ways such as incentives to upgrade to higher efficiency appliances and such (though those incentives usually come from the power companies - a win-win situation). I am not in favor of the gov't controlling how my house runs. At least let me pretend I own it, even if not paying my taxes would prove otherwise.

Edited January 11, 2008 by PurdueGuy

[Drew Dowdell]

There ya go... export market for Idaho.

[Camino LS6]

Time to formulate a backup plan for going underground.

I cannot accept this level of intrusion.

[loki]

Remember what I was preaching a few weeks ago about Politics and Environment mixing to become ONE CENTRAL government that controls everything?

Look no further than this, for it is the beginning of the end.

Soon everything will be regulated by the government, and ya know what that means right? CORRUPTION: meaning we (the working class) will all get screwed whilst the upper crust continues to "widen the financial spread" and live comfortably. I've been schooled in this for many years through my studies in Sociology. It's pretty scarey and ironically funny to see it finally happening.

Should've never involved politics in environment, it created a whole new, very potent weapon for those who want to control us. They can't do it with military force, but they CAN convince us to turn on our instincts and "do what's best for eveyone". I swear to God, the public is so ignorant that it's as easy as coaxing a 3 year old to put up his toys.

Just as the bible waiving naysayers predict... It appears that we WILL be controlled by one central government via computer chips and barcodes. These will be used to keep us 'in our places' at the bottom of the ladder.

P.S. Anybody want to buy gun? I can get anything you want. :AH-HA_wink:

"beginning of the end" ...it's been coming for at least 20 years.

the rest of what you said, sounds like russian communism ( minus the last 2 things ) if that happens there is a simple remedy, but the work to become great again will be arduous.

[Cory Wolfe]

Wood furnaces FTW.

[daves87rs]

I'm partly with Drew on this one-I would love to control my house away from home....

CFLs, and a few solar panels will be on our future house...

[Oracle of Delphi]

Makes me warm and fuzzy that 90% of the time I travel on my EU (German) passport and not my US one.

[RichW5]

I think this is communism ................ then again, since the step-son moved back into our house the water bill has doubled (two showers a day at 1/2 hour each, plus all his dirty laundry), the gas bill has gone up 40% (heating the basement were he lives) and electricity has gone up 40% also (Xbox, computer and TV left on all the time, even when he goes to work).

If I could get the state of Illinois to accept the blame for restricting electric, gas and water, I could be happy again. The wife wouldn't blame me for driving out her poor (30 year old) baby. The step-son and I get along OK, but he will never learn responsibility (how to be a real man) unless he has to pay all his expenses on his own.

[deftonesfan867]

Come to California, where we'll tell you how to live your life while filming a porno staring you wife!

[regfootball]

Come to California, where we'll tell you how to live your life while filming a porno staring you wife!

yeah, LMAO!

[76ChevyTrucker]

I'd love to see a lot of older powerplants, be they nuclear, coal, CNG, or hydro-electric, get rebuilt and upgraded instead of just out and out building new. Sure you're going to need to completely replace a plant here and a plant there, but woudln't upgrading the equipment inside be a little more feasible than breaking new ground somewhere else for a plant?

[Intrepidation]

Nothing like trying to control people's freedom of ambient temperature in their own homes.

One more reason to hate California.

[mustang84]

God, this reminds me of the book "The Fountainhead" where everything was done in the name of the common good. It's a great read for those who value individualism over collectivism.

Thankfully the gestapo haven't taken over my state's government yet.

Someday when I can afford to design my own home, I want to make it as energy independent from the grid as possible. Natural ventilation, geothermal heating and cooling, controlled daylighting, maybe even solar energy.

[RichW5]

Apparently, the commission that proposed taking over California's thermostats has felt the "Heat". I heard they dropped the proposal yesterday.

Now .... the homeowners of California should find out who these people are and protest to the "Governator" and their representatives. Their presence on the commission should be "Terminated".