GM @ NAIAS '08: Cadillac CTSv - Overview

[Drew Dowdell]

The CTS needs a diesel that averages 27-28 mpg or a hybrid version that does the same. If they offered both together they would blow away the competition.

Delivering 184 kW / 250 hp of power and a monstrous 550 Nm / 406 ft-lbs of torque (compare this to the 155 kW / 210 hp and 526 Nm / 400 ft-lbs of the new Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec), the oil burner is built to match Cadillac's performance-oriented brand character. But Cadillac is likely to be far from the only brand in GM's stable which will eventually get to take advantage of this new engine; it can be installed in a longitudinal or transverse layout and can be adapted to a wide range of two- or four-wheel-drive vehicles so expect it to pop up all over.

Bluetech does 23/32... keep that in mind.

[Z-06]

Coming back to the subject.

Does anybody have an idea of how many CTS-V's is GM rumored to produce every year?

[NOS2006]

Ahh, I don't remember.. Someone said what the number is at work the other day, but I don't remember.

[Z-06]

Ahh, I don't remember.. Someone said what the number is at work the other day, but I don't remember.

Realistically I see them selling about 4-5k annually. But with the amount of goodies this car has compared to its predecessors while taking care of the wheel hop, and now automatic I think people willl embrace it more.

[dado]

Realistically I see them selling about 4-5k annually. But with the amount of goodies this car has compared to its predecessors while taking care of the wheel hop, and now automatic I think people willl embrace it more.

I think i've read that limit will be 7000 annually..but i'm not sure.

Edited January 11, 2008 by dado

[smk4565]

Bluetech does 23/32... keep that in mind.

BMW's diesel (335d or 535d) is 23/33 mpg and has 265 hp and 425 lb-ft. Only 66 dBA interior noise at 70 mph, that is Lexus LS460 level.

The Camry 4-cylinder is 21/31 by comparison to the diesels. I think diesel will be a big hit.

[Drew Dowdell]

BMW's diesel (335d or 535d) is 23/33 mpg and has 265 hp and 425 lb-ft. Only 66 dBA interior noise at 70 mph, that is Lexus LS460 level.

The Camry 4-cylinder is 21/31 by comparison to the diesels. I think diesel will be a big hit.

So Cadillac's is right in line.

[smk4565]

why would DOHC engine be requirement for E class, A6 etc competition(concerning V8 engines)?

Refinement. Ever notice that every Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti, and Acura has DOHC engines (SOHC for the Benz V12).

[smk4565]

So Cadillac's is right in line.

I thought you meant Mercedes Bluetec which averages about 27 mpg.

Is Cadillac's diesel 50 state emission compliant? If so, they should put it on sale during the 2008 calendar year.

[dado]

Refinement. Ever notice that every Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti, and Acura has DOHC engines (SOHC for the Benz V12).

And you think GM can't make new ohv refined enough for this class?

[smk4565]

And you think GM can't make new ohv refined enough for this class?

Nope. Even the best pushrod won't be as refined as the best DOHC engine. The Northstar is an average DOHC engine at this point and is still more refined than any GM pushrod. Even the Malibu had to go DOHC only because the pushrod couldn't match Honda and Toyota in refinement.

[The O.C.]

If you won a CTS-V in a contest... it couldn't compete with an M5 and an E63 because you got it for free.... right? If you want to go down that route, why do you never see the Z4 and SLK compared to a Corvette?? They base around the same price but the 'Vette would positively pwn both of them. So why don't you see those comparos? Because it doesn't make any F#$%ing sense to compare dissimilar vehicles that just happen to share a price point!

I'm trying to figure out how this is any more of an expensive interior than what is available in the CTS. No 40gig hard drive? No sky view sunroof? No pop up Nav? *scoff* I'm sure you'll counter with the 97 way power seats.... but that doesn't matter to me because the CTS seats already fit me perfectly.

The Benz is even worse.... is that a Passat?

So yea.... if those are $80k interiors, I'll stick with the $63k interior in the CTS thanks.

How the hell would you know? The old CTS ran with the old M3 to the point where the differences between the two were up to driver error.

What your pics don't show is that the M5 dash/door panels are covered in stichted leather. The CTS and CTS-v is stitched (but nicely grained soft-touch) plastic....not leather. I'm not dissing the CTS interior AT ALL....in fact, the v-Series is hot.....but having been in tons of 3- and 5-series....whether you like the actual styling, the interior finish is absolutely first class on everything from the headliner to the plastics below the dash.

The C-Class, on the other hand, is put together really well......but really does use many inferior finishes and feels cheap in comparison to just about any other competitior (CTS, 3, A4, etc.)

[The O.C.]

okay itemized list here we go:

1. arent those like $20 at bestbuy now?

2. are you driving a car or are you watching the latest dvd release

3. WTF its called window tint

4. already touched on that one in a previous post

5. whatever, a draw i guess but i still think they for sissies

6. there is one its called a windshield, you look out and well heads up.

7. have people become this lazy i mean really... does anyone still drive out there who can afford $45K cars?

8. its calld f#&*^$ pay attention to what you are doing. you shouldnt be shaving drinking coffee checking stocks and trying to find something good on the radio... drive already.

9. Advanced auto, sams club, target, the list goes on... an aftermarket one will probably have more of the stuff you'll really need with quality that you can depend on.

10.are there really 14 different directions a freakin seat needs to move? i can only think of 6... 8 if you inflate the stupid things... back, forward, tilting back and forward, and raising and lowering the back of the seat... my dads 94 z28 accomplishes this quite well.

11. isnt there a 5 yr 100K warranty out now? besides since the last time i read in the paper GM is trying its best to get out of the redzone this would quite effectively put them in chapter 11 in those 4 paid years.

12. do people still keep vehicles 12 yrs? im asking cause i dont know but the last time i heard it was a rare occasion when a vehicle got paid off.

13. again with the laziness... there are levers. you pull them then you let go when its in the right spot.

14. see #3

15. see #13

16. nothing wrong with the power plant... check

17. if it'll stop the whining

18. why so the transmission has something to do when it gets bored? 7...8...7...8... get my point?

19. al gore wants a caddy? i thought he was into yotas... thats what his son got busted high on pain meds speedin in 6 months ago.

20. so we took a few steps back to make it easy on bmlexbenz... thats fine, at least make it fair for them.

after all that would be put on the cars the wish for a caddy not being in the 30's and being in the 50's and 60's would be fulfilled and the average joe would be sayin well piss at one time i could afford a caddy but now i guess we'll just go buy BUICKS

LORD I've never seen such spin in all my life.....!

OMG....do you work for GM PR?

[The O.C.]

because they share the same idiotic notions you do that price dictates class rather than size, performance, and features.

Most people, even at this level, shop price/payment than they do vehicle size.

Let's put this controversy at REST.

If ANYONE has access to consumer cross-shop data......or Cadillac trade-in data......or Cadillac cross-shop data......bring it on. I'll bet ANYONE on here that the facts will show that CTS, when cross-shopped with Europeans, is cross-shopped more among 3-series, C-class, and A4 as opposed to 5-series, E-Class, or A6.

[cletus8269]

LORD I've never seen such spin in all my life.....!

OMG....do you work for GM PR?

nope but everytime this cat signs in and checks out a caddy thread it becomes a lexus does this MB does that bmw has all hour... it just gets really old seeing the same post. my list is just how i feel. maybe i am just too easy to please when it comes to a vehicle. when i see a cts-v rolling down the hwy the first thing i think about is not "i wonder how i can talk on my phone find out how to get to the grocery store keep my butt warm while moving the seat 30 different directions", its "man i'd like to wring that out on the track for a day". maybe i focus too much on the driving experience, not the creature comforts that most look for in a house.

Edited January 12, 2008 by cletus8269

[turbo200]

it's that smk expects whatever vehicle Cadillac releases to do EVERYTHING everyone else does, when everyone else doesn't even do all that he expects of Cadillac.

SMK: learn to love the car and just go with it. The CTS has its flaws, however, not chief among them is a lack of features. in its price class, competing against the 3-series and C-class, it offers more than enough features and has been clearly recognized as so. A hybrid and a diesel are coming, much like they are coming to Audi, Lexus, and BMW, regardless if one of those companies has one here or there [read: just because Lexus has the LS 400h does not mean Cadillac is at a loss for not having one on the CTS]

Edited January 12, 2008 by turbo200

[turbo200]

But notice even Cadillac said BMW was their benchmark and what they aimed for. They admit they are chasing BMW rather than being a leader at performance/luxury.

Saying a car is your benchmark does not mean you are shooting for second best. This is flawed logic on your part. As are several other statements in this thread.

"If the CTS wants to compete in the 48k-70k price range, it needs to offer stuff to compete in this price range."

"Even the Malibu switched from pushrod to DOHC because it wasn't as refined" [or something to that extend]

These are some pretty idiotic comments, and you are quickly losing respect. I admire your need to question everything and demand more from Caddy, but pulling crap out of the air is not the way to do this.

CTS is what it is. It's a helluva nice 35k-48k car. It offers a lot of what the more expensive cars offer at a significantly lower price, along with one dramatic and sweet looking design. Is it perfect? NO. You could choose to complain that it's too heavy, that's valid. You could say the interior finish isn't as great as it should be. That's valid. You could choose to say some interior elements are still old GM style [rear armrest, door panels, painted plastic center console]. you could even say the design is just refined as opposed to standout.

But complaining about a lack of hybrid, diesel, rear heated seats, yada yada yada. Look if the CTS had these features it would cost 60k. It doesn't and therefore doesn't...offer those features. Don't bitch about things that aren't there.

[Imaj]

Sweet

[smk4565]

What your pics don't show is that the M5 dash/door panels are covered in stichted leather. The CTS and CTS-v is stitched (but nicely grained soft-touch) plastic....not leather. I'm not dissing the CTS interior AT ALL....in fact, the v-Series is hot.....but having been in tons of 3- and 5-series....whether you like the actual styling, the interior finish is absolutely first class on everything from the headliner to the plastics below the dash.

The C-Class, on the other hand, is put together really well......but really does use many inferior finishes and feels cheap in comparison to just about any other competitior (CTS, 3, A4, etc.)

I 100% agree. BMW's styling isn't the best, but the materials are first rate. And that picture is the 2005 M5 interior, they have given it a slight upgrade for 2008. The C-class interior has way too much gray plastic, it one of the weakest interiors in the entry-lux class.

[smk4565]

My main point is people can't compare a CTS to a 5-series or a CTS-V to an M5 because of feature content. I agree that if the CTS added all the stuff on my original list it would cost $60,000, which is what a 5-series costs. Then they would be more comparable. I just think Cadillac needs a car that is in the $48-65,000 range that is like the A6, 5-series, E-class and Jaguar XF. Whether that is the CTS when it gets the MCE or a totally new car, doesn't matter to me. They also need a small car that can compete performance wise with the 335i, which I know is coming, but it can't come soon enough.

The CTS is still a car I'd test drive, I like the exterior look, but hate the plastic grille, the interior layout I am not a big fan of and my knee hits the console. The old CTS I thought hat a perfect driver seating position and I loved the console angled to the driver and every control was exactly where it should have been. Problem was the materials were low rent.

The Jaguar XF is my current favorite car. I also just read the new Jaguar 5.0 liter V8 makes 470 hp naturally aspirated, so with the supercharger output would be as high as 600 hp, though the production car will likely be tuned down.

[Drew Dowdell]

Nope. Even the best pushrod won't be as refined as the best DOHC engine. The Northstar is an average DOHC engine at this point and is still more refined than any GM pushrod. Even the Malibu had to go DOHC only because the pushrod couldn't match Honda and Toyota in refinement.

incorrect and incorrect.

1. LT-1... in the Roadmaster and Fleetwood, one the the smoothest, quietest engines you could buy.

2. If you hadn't noticed, GM is consolidating engine lines. They are throwing their money at the HF family because of tools like you who whine about DOHC incessantly.

[Drew Dowdell]

What your pics don't show is that the M5 dash/door panels are covered in stichted leather. The CTS and CTS-v is stitched (but nicely grained soft-touch) plastic....not leather. I'm not dissing the CTS interior AT ALL....in fact, the v-Series is hot.....but having been in tons of 3- and 5-series....whether you like the actual styling, the interior finish is absolutely first class on everything from the headliner to the plastics below the dash.

The C-Class, on the other hand, is put together really well......but really does use many inferior finishes and feels cheap in comparison to just about any other competitior (CTS, 3, A4, etc.)

my comments weren't on quality, but rather style... and neither the C65 nor the M5 blow open the styling doors.

[Drew Dowdell]

My main point is people can't compare a CTS to a 5-series or a CTS-V to an M5 because of feature content.

But it will be based on performance... and that's what these cars are about. Do you really think that M5 owners buy their car for the 20-way power seats... or the kick in the ass performance?

How lame would it be when a CTS-V beats an M5 and the owner comes up with "Oh yeah!? Well, I have 20-way power seats and rear door sunshades!"

Focus on what is important with this type of car. CTS-V production is limited to 7,000 per year. Cadillac will sell every one without discount.

[jlbunting]

This car is sweet.

Also, finally it has BLUETOOTH!

This CTS-V has everything I would ever want in a car.

Now all I need is the money; maybe in a couple of years.