GM @ NAIAS '08: Cadillac CTSv - Overview

[Chris_Doane]

For release: Jan. 14, 2008, 12:01 a.m. EST (embargo has been broken by other outlets)

2009 CTS-V: CADILLAC’S ULTIMATE EXPRESSION OF PERFORMANCE AND LUXURY

*Full Photo Gallery HERE*

*Powertrain press release HERE*

*Technology press release HERE*

DETROIT – As the new CTS sport sedan earns accolades and new owners, Cadillac takes the next leap forward by premiering the 2009 CTS-V, the brand’s ultimate expression of performance and luxury.

Launching in the fourth quarter of 2008, the all-new CTS-V intends to combine the serious performance of an elite sports car with the poise and elegance of a prestigious luxury sedan. Part of Cadillac’s acclaimed V-Series of high-performance models, CTS-V delivers an estimated 550 horsepower (410 kW). More than just power, CTS-V also includes a comprehensive suite of technical and design enhancements, including Magnetic Ride Control, an industry-first Performance Traction Management program and the addition of a new automatic transmission with paddle-shift control.

“The CTS-V represents the full extension of our design, technology and performance capabilities,” says Jim Taylor, Cadillac general manager. “The V-Series takes the award-winning CTS sport sedan and elevates it to a position within the club of the world’s most exclusive and capable cars.”

As an all-new version of the CTS sport sedan was prepared for 2008, Cadillac engineers and designers began to scheme a new CTS-V that would reach much higher in terms of performance and luxury. Through the original CTS-V, Cadillac proved it could develop a very potent, high-performance sedan. The challenge for the 2009 model was enhancing every aspect in a comprehensive manner, along with reaching higher performance limits.

Several key technical and design elements combine to transform the already highly capable CTS into the new V-Series. Like the existing CTS, the V-Series is the product of an intensive development process across North America and Europe, including famed test tracks and millions of miles of road. Supporting Cadillac’s ongoing global expansion, the 2009 CTS-V is planned to be offered outside North America for the first time, including exports to Europe, the Middle East and Asia.

Sophisticated technical enhancements

The 2009 Cadillac CTS-V features the world’s fastest-reacting suspension technology, Magnetic Ride Control (MRC). It uses shocks controlled by electro-magnets, rather than mechanical valves, greatly accelerating response time. Electronic sensors at all four wheels literally “read the road” every millisecond, making constant adjustments to damping to create virtually instantaneous and extremely precise control of body motions. This is of particular benefit for a high-performance sedan, helping to keep the car very composed during hard cornering, acceleration, braking and other dynamic maneuvers.

MRC technology first appeared on the Cadillac STS performance sedan and has been used on some of the world’s most celebrated cars, including the Chevrolet Corvette and a select few European sports cars.

Enabling the precise control expected in a high-performance sedan, the CTS-V features Performance Traction Management system, borrowed from championship racing teams. This technology uses advanced electronics to manage engine torque for optimal traction during acceleration. In situations such as acceleration from a stop or exiting corners, Performance Traction Management regulates torque delivery for the best possible launch.

Performance Traction Management uses the same sort of electronics as stability control programs such as Cadillac’s StabiliTrak system, but applies it in a different manner. Rather than monitoring and controlling wheel slip to assist in stopping or slowing the car, PTM regulates torque delivery to instantly match the available tire grip for maximum acceleration.

CTS-V also includes sophisticated braking and tire systems, in partnership with two companies renown for high-performance technology: Brembo and Michelin. Brembo brakes are at all four corners and include powerful, six-piston calipers in the front and four-piston calipers in the rear. Michelin worked with Cadillac engineers to develop its acclaimed Pilot Sport 2 (PS2) summer tire for CTS-V and its 19-inch wheels.

And, of course, there is the matter of power. It has increased nearly 35 percent for the ’09 CTS-V, via a new 6.2L LSA supercharged V-8 engine generating an estimated 550 hp (410 kW) and 550 lb.-ft. (745 Nm) of torque. The engine delivers this power with remarkable refinement. A sixth-generation Eaton supercharger minimizes the added noise previously associated with supercharged engines, and tightly controls intake air temperature for optimal performance.

Transmission choices include either a six-speed manual or an exclusive, six-speed automatic with steering-wheel-mounted paddle shifters. It is the first automatic offered on the CTS-V.

Accentuated design elements

The 2009 CTS-V extends Cadillac’s acclaimed design language, both inside and out. The V-Series includes all the elements of the CTS sport sedan’s well received cabin, while adding some elegant and purposeful accents.

V-Series will offer Recaro performance driving seats, providing excellent support for spirited driving and adding to the luxurious and purposeful interior. These new, 14-way adjustable performance seats include pneumatic bolster controls in the seat cushion and backrest.

A microfiber material is added to the steering wheel, seats and shifter, providing the soft feel and luxurious appearance of suede without suede’s inherent drawbacks of difficult care and moisture sensitivity. These accents on the steering wheel, seat inserts and shifter are elegant to the touch and help support high-performance driving.

The car’s integrated center stack is trimmed with a new Obsidian material that is also applied to the center console and door trim. Just like every CTS, the V-Series includes a hand-stitched instrument panel, door trim and center console. Leading-edge infotainment features, including a 40-gigabyte hard drive, advanced navigation system with a “pop-up” screen and Bose digital surround audio, extend to the V-Series, as well as factory-installed Bluetooth capability.

The exterior of the new CTS-V amplifies the assertive stance and elegant details of the standard car, and communicates the car’s remarkable capabilities. The dihedral Cadillac grille is larger to enable more air intake and features a satin finish. The raised hood encompasses the supercharged engine, and new front and rear fascias identify the vehicle as a V-Series. The car’s 19-inch wheels enhance its stance on the road.

The founding member of the V-Series, CTS-V was initially offered in 2004 and sold primarily in North America through the 2007 model year. The supercharged STS-V and XLR-V were added in 2006 to make the V-Series an exclusive trio of models all capable of zero-to-60 acceleration in less than five seconds with enhanced overall performance and luxury features.

# # #

[Chris_Doane]

Well that embargo didn't last...

[Drew Dowdell]

jack those wheels off the G8 concept?

[SuperSport623]

those wheels look good on the V!

[thegriffon]

Well that embargo didn't last...

The Australian response to embargo breakers has been to attach the publication date to the copyright license (i.e. you will not have a license to publish photos or press releases until the embargo date)—publish before the embargo date and you're in breach of copyright and will be sued. While that won't stop anyone writing an original article revealing all the details, there can't be any photos, and who's going to read an article on the 9-4X etc. without photos to show what it actually looks like?

[thegriffon]

The reasoning is by breaking an embargo publications are seeking an advantage over the competition that will give them an economic gain (in readership and associated magazine/newspaper purchases and advertising revenue), and that gain will be forfeited if it is the result of a copyright breach. If a complaint is made search engines will also remove a site from their listings if it is posting illegal material (including copyright breaches, although in practice this almost never happens).

[NOS2006]

Ahhhh LSA, skeet! haha

550 HP sounds amazing, I just wish they didn't try to restrict the sound of a "supercharged engine." I love that whine!

[Chris_Doane]

Ahhhh LSA, skeet! haha

550 HP sounds amazing, I just wish they didn't try to restrict the sound of a "supercharged engine." I love that whine!

The first NOSgasm of the car show season!

[NOS2006]

Oooh, actually those were number four and five.

One through three NOSgasms came at the introduction of the ZR1.

*seriously trying to hold back number six*

[Chris_Doane]

Oooh, actually those were number four and five.

One through three NOSgasms came at the introduction of the ZR1.

*seriously trying to hold back number six*

Oops....forgot about those.

[regfootball]

The first NOSgasm of the car show season!

ewe. it got my monitor!

[Robert Hall]

Hmmm...one of these, a ZR1, an Enclave and an '10 Camaro convertible would nicely fill out my win-the-lottery, all-GM dream car garage...

[Newbiewar]

how much...?

[smk4565]

The question is will it cost $82,900 to compete with the M5 (GM says in the press release M5 and E63 are the competitors)? Or will it be priced around $62-65,000 and get compared with the M3 which is much lighter and more agile. It doesn't have an $82,000 car interior, and it can't handle with an M3 that is 750 pounds lighter. The same CTS vs 335i or 535i argument exists.

From a styling standpoint, I like the base car's grille more this looks too much like the old one. I like the wood better than the black stuff that replaced it, and I am not a big fan of the G8 concept wheels.

[Camino LS6]

Well, there's a surprise.

[jasaero]

The question is will it cost $82,900 to compete with the M5 (GM says in the press release M5 and E63 are the competitors)? Or will it be priced around $62-65,000 and get compared with the M3 which is much lighter and more agile. It doesn't have an $82,000 car interior, and it can't handle with an M3 that is 750 pounds lighter. The same CTS vs 335i or 535i argument exists.

From a styling standpoint, I like the base car's grille more this looks too much like the old one. I like the wood better than the black stuff that replaced it, and I am not a big fan of the G8 concept wheels.

Wow! You have odd taste!! About 90% of posts, EVEN on BMW enthusiast forums, prefer this interior over the M5. I would say more than 50% of the posts I have read in various forums actually make it sound like they actually think this is the new benchmark for all other interiors to be judged by!!

[Z-06]

The reasoning is by breaking an embargo publications are seeking an advantage over the competition that will give them an economic gain (in readership and associated magazine/newspaper purchases and advertising revenue), and that gain will be forfeited if it is the result of a copyright breach. If a complaint is made search engines will also remove a site from their listings if it is posting illegal material (including copyright breaches, although in practice this almost never happens).

In paper age it would have made sense to breach these embargoes for extra sale in publications. In internet age, this "time advantage" is very short. For example when I read about the CTS-V almost all publications had put the photos on their respective websites only to clutter the knowledge of who broke it first (in few minutes i.e. prior to the others). Yeah the breach can be found, but it is not worth it in pursuing.

The one option I see is that to make the files "active" automatically after the auto manufacturer's official release time and then give it to the publications to use them. Till that time, not even the publications can unlock the pictures and use them. This will render breaking embargoes useless.

[NOS2006]

Wow! You have odd taste!! About 90% of posts, EVEN on BMW enthusiast forums, prefer this interior over the M5. I would say more than 50% of the posts I have read in various forums actually make it sound like they actually think this is the new benchmark for all other interiors to be judged by!!

Having benchmarked the 5-Series, CTS, and multiple other vehicles in this class, I'd say the CTS and Mercedes C350 are the new standard in quality while the CTS is the new stand-alone leader in design.

[Drew Dowdell]

The question is will it cost $82,900 to compete with the M5 (GM says in the press release M5 and E63 are the competitors)?

If you won a CTS-V in a contest... it couldn't compete with an M5 and an E63 because you got it for free.... right? If you want to go down that route, why do you never see the Z4 and SLK compared to a Corvette?? They base around the same price but the 'Vette would positively pwn both of them. So why don't you see those comparos? Because it doesn't make any F#$%ing sense to compare dissimilar vehicles that just happen to share a price point!

Or will it be priced around $62-65,000 and get compared with the M3 which is much lighter and more agile. It doesn't have an $82,000 car interior,

I'm trying to figure out how this is any more of an expensive interior than what is available in the CTS. No 40gig hard drive? No sky view sunroof? No pop up Nav? *scoff* I'm sure you'll counter with the 97 way power seats.... but that doesn't matter to me because the CTS seats already fit me perfectly.

The Benz is even worse.... is that a Passat?

So yea.... if those are $80k interiors, I'll stick with the $63k interior in the CTS thanks.

and it can't handle with an M3 that is 750 pounds lighter.

How the hell would you know? The old CTS ran with the old M3 to the point where the differences between the two were up to driver error.

[Z-06]

Here you go comparison of old CTS-V with respect to the old M3 and M5.

For example, in a ride-and-handling round-robin tour of our 10Best test loop, the Cadillac's rather aggressive suspension tuning trailed the more supple M5 in ride quality but wasn't as hard-edged as the M3. On the other hand, we rated its steering feel and response on a par with the BMWs', and we were impressed with the high threshold of Cadillac's stability-control system—much more willing to allow a little sliding than that of either BMW, and much less intrusive when it did intervene. We were even more impressed that GM allows the option of shutting down the system.

Certainly, there's more to public-road driving than max cornering speeds and late braking. And in the realm of livability, the Cadillac gives a very good account of itself. The front buckets don't offer quite as much lateral support as the M5's, but their range of adjustability is good, and if they give anything away in terms of all-around comfort, the distinction is academic. The M3's seats, in contrast, reflect the sportier nature of the car—almost raceworthy, but difficult to adjust and even harder to achieve long-distance comfort. We could wish that the Cadillac's steering column had a telescope feature as well as tilt, but no one reported any difficulties with achieving an optimal driving position.

In terms of general comfort and self-indulgence, the CTS-V is a clear winner. It's roomier than the M5, particularly in the rear, the electroluminescent instruments look good and scan better, the interior styling looks more contemporary than the aging BMW layouts, and the Caddy's audio system makes the BMW units sound very ordinary indeed.

Honestly as much as I do not want to say this, I have to, sometimes you have to ignore comments from people who cannot improve or change.

[smk4565]

The M5 interior is nothing great either (the above pic is the 05 interior, they made it a little better for 08). The 5-series also came out in fall 2003, it is near the end, where as the CTS is brand new, the 5-series will be all new in a year or so. The Mercedes C-class has a garbage interior. The E-class though has better materials than the CTS does, despite the hard seats. The CLS is pretty nice and they make that in AMG tune as well. The Ford Focus also has a hard drive to store songs in, the CTS can't live off having a hard drive as cutting edge. Using top quality leather, aluminum, wood, carpet, etc make a good interior. Jaguar XF is an example.

The CTS interior is good for entry level luxury cars, but lacks heads-up display, lane departure warning, Bluetooth, adaptive cruise control, heated steering wheel, 7.1 surround sound, etc. The mid-level cars like the 5-series, E-class, CLS, Jag XF have that stuff. I don't really care for BMW styling inside or out, but I recognize that they use quality materials and their cars have the best handling/driving/steering. BMW sales were up 6.7% in 2007, Mercedes and Lexus were up 1.8% and Cadillac was down 5.7%. BMW is doing something right.

If the CTS-V is priced around $63,000 like the M3, people will compare it to an M3, just like the CTS DI is compared to the 335i. The M3 is 3500 pounds, 4200-4300 for a CTS-V, that is a bad mismatch on a curvy road. The Corvette performs near the low end Ferraris because of it's low weight. I don't understand why GM understands that with the Vette, but not with Cadillac. Giving up on a DOHC V8 and not having diesel and hybrid CTS on sale this year also show they don't understand the luxury market.

[Robert Hall]

If the CTS-V is priced around $63,000 like the M3, people will compare it to an M3, just like the CTS DI is compared to the 335i. The M3 is 3500 pounds, 4200-4300 for a CTS-V, that is a bad mismatch on a curvy road. The Corvette performs near the low end Ferraris because of it's low weight. I don't understand why GM understands that with the Vette, but not with Cadillac. Giving up on a DOHC V8 and not having diesel and hybrid CTS on sale this year also show they don't understand the luxury market.

It will be interesting where the pricing ends up...from what I've read recently, the new M3 is going to be closer to $75k.

[cletus8269]

im sorry but why the #%$^ would a heated steering wheel be important? i still laugh at the heated seats in my dads 1500 but have begun to accept them, but a steering wheel? lets find a better reason to complain or i'll bring up the fact its raining here on my day off. thats a more logical thing to whine about.

Edited January 10, 2008 by cletus8269

[Z-06]

If the CTS-V is priced around $63,000 like the M3, people will compare it to an M3, just like the CTS DI is compared to the 335i. The M3 is 3500 pounds, 4200-4300 for a CTS-V, that is a bad mismatch on a curvy road. The Corvette performs near the low end Ferraris because of it's low weight.

To the contrary I can say how can 3500lb Ferraris handle as good as a 3100lb corvette? My lumina is 3200lb it should handle as well as a corvette then as per your analogy. Or the Bentley continental gt with its 5000 lb weight should handle like my company's Chevy Silverado.

Weight is detrimental, but no way can you say it will hamper a car's handling.

[Robert Hall]

im sorry but why the #%$^ would a heated steering wheel be important? i still laugh at the heated seats in my dads 1500 but have begun to accept them, but a steering wheel? lets find a better reason to complain or i'll bring up the fact its raining here on my day off. thats a more logical thing to whine about.

Heated seats are great in the winter...I'd like to have a heated steering wheel so I wouldn't have to wear gloves at startup after the car has sat out during a long cold day.. I'd like to have cooled seats and a cooled steering wheel as well.

[Robert Hall]

To the contrary I can say how can 3500lb Ferraris handle as good as a 3100lb corvette? My lumina is 3200lb it should handle as well as a corvette then as per your analogy. Or the Bentley continental gt with its 5000 lb weight should handle like my company's Chevy Silverado.

Weight is detrimental, but no way can you say it will hamper a car's handling.

The important thing is how the weight is distributed...

[Z-06]

The important thing is how the weight is distributed...

Absolutely, and how the suspension is set also helps handling.

[Lamar]

The Ford Focus also has a hard drive to store songs in

Uh, no it doesn't.

[Z-06]

The CTS interior is good for entry level luxury cars, but lacks heads-up display, lane departure warning, Bluetooth, adaptive cruise control, heated steering wheel, 7.1 surround sound, etc.

Through other perspective- Smaller European cars offer the same amount of luxury contents as you have mentioned. Will you thus compare them to these fancied cars you have mentioned?

[Drew Dowdell]

The M5 interior is nothing great either (the above pic is the 05 interior, they made it a little better for 08). The 5-series also came out in fall 2003, it is near the end, where as the CTS is brand new, the 5-series will be all new in a year or so. The Mercedes C-class has a garbage interior. The E-class though has better materials than the CTS does, despite the hard seats. The CLS is pretty nice and they make that in AMG tune as well. The Ford Focus also has a hard drive to store songs in, the CTS can't live off having a hard drive as cutting edge. Using top quality leather, aluminum, wood, carpet, etc make a good interior. Jaguar XF is an example.

You're harder to catch than a fly with chopsticks! Your points are all over the place and you try and dodge and duck every time I pwn you <which is just after most of your posts>. You said the CTS doesn't have an interior to stack up against the M5 and C65.... well I posted pics of that and you reply with "well the M5 is old... a new one will be here soon". Perhaps... but it isn't here yet and the CTS-V is still superior to both of them today. Where is the stitched leather dash? Where is the pop up nav on the M5? Why is the iDrive still in there... Cadillac's interface has been praised for being the most intuitive. Look at all that flat black plastic on that Benz!

Oh wait... you dodged and ducked.... it's the CLS that the CTS-V is inferior to now? Looking at pics of the CLS interior.... I just don't buy that. It's nice and all but doesn't break any styling ground.

And what of the weight of the CLS63? It's 4200lbs! Oh NoooS! Better not take it into any curves! This thing is a drag racing machine only.

The XF has a very nice interior but isn't even in the same league as these cars performance wise. It makes 420hp out of it's supercharged version. 130hp less than the CTS-V.

The M3 is 3500 pounds, 4200-4300 for a CTS-V, that is a bad mismatch on a curvy road.

Does that mean a CLS <4200> and a curvy road are a bad mismatch? The M5<4100>? M6 Convertible <4400>? Audi S6 <4500!!>?

Giving up on a DOHC V8 and not having diesel and hybrid CTS on sale this year also show they don't understand the luxury market.

Oooor... maybe they understand it better than you do. It wouldn't take GM very long at all to sell a CTS diesel in the US. It's already for sale in Europe.

but you're right... they just don't understand the luxury market.... they're being pummeled by all those luxury hybrid cars <total: 1>, and luxury diesel cars <total: 1> on the market today.

[deanh8]

/\ owned

[smk4565]

The 420 hp in the XF is the middle engine. The XF-R will have over 500 hp from a new DOHC V8.

I am not convinced that the CTS-V interior is any better than the STS-V interior, and the STS-V failed to compete with the M5 and E63. The Audi RS6 has 580 hp and no one considers that to be a benchmark car. But notice even Cadillac said BMW was their benchmark and what they aimed for. They admit they are chasing BMW rather than being a leader at performance/luxury.

Comparing the CTS to the 5-series is like comparing the G8 to the CTS. The G8 is rear drive, has leather seats and the same V6 and offers a V8 that is faster than a CTS DI for a lot less money, but there is a big difference in materials in a G8 and in a CTS. The same holds true for CTS and 5-series, they may have similar size and power/drivetrain, but there is a difference. I wish they would improve the CTS interior, load it with technology, put a $47,000 base price on the CTS and blow the 5-series away but Cadillac is afraid it seems of the higher end luxury market.

Cadillac could sell 750,000 cars a year if they were what they used to be, (1902-1959 era), but what they are now is a tier 2 luxury brand. I'd rather see them tier 1 and leading the way, not competing with Lincoln and Acura as to who can crank more power from a V6 because they are too gutless to make a V8 or V12 or a legit S-class competitor.

Edited January 11, 2008 by smk4565

[Z-06]

[smk4565]

but you're right... they just don't understand the luxury market.... they're being pummeled by all those luxury hybrid cars <total: 1>, and luxury diesel cars <total: 1> on the market today.

But Lexus has 3 hybrids: RX, GS and LS. Mercedes has E class and GL class diesel. BMW has 2 diesels going on sale during 2008 and X6 hybrid and 5-series diesel are coming soon.

[balthazar]

I was parked next to a very recent E500 with '4-Matic' (for a long while I dismissively thought this referred to a 4-spd automatic; I wonder how many non-enthusiasts assume the very same thing- dumb-ass name), and I as I was on the phone, spent a good 10 minutes looking over the interior. While I don't recall everything, a few details stood out: there was a smooth, shiny plastic knob on the inside side of the front seats, just above average elbow height. The placement was bizarre to say the least, and the quality was commercial airline grade... maybe; it was almost painful to look at. If this large knob is some sort of manual front seat adjustment, the placement is a horribly unfunny joke; the driver would have to reach with his left hand under his right arm to grasp the knob, that is; if he could even bring himself to touch it.

Same deal with the rear door door lock knobs- they're on the rearward edge of the door, requiring either another under-arm reach or an extremely acrobatic twist and elbow-hike just to grasp it. This is cheapness exemplified; placing the lock button right over the latch instead of putting it where decades of cars have- where the rear passengers can actually reach it. There, it's also out of reach of small children in the back.

There were numerous other details that surprised me, given that according to some, this car is practically beyond criticism. In other words, if failed miserably to live up to it's hype. What would a prev gen e500 go for anyway, ballpark?

[cletus8269]

But Lexus has 3 hybrids: RX, GS and LS. Mercedes has E class and GL class diesel. BMW has 2 diesels going on sale during 2008 and X6 hybrid and 5-series diesel are coming soon.

everything is either coming or is rumored. look there is no way to convince a diehard fan that another brand is superior to that which they will kill in the name of. you might as well be in a mustang forum on a soap box preaching the camaro gospel... you are going to get just as far there saying what has been said on this thread. state an opinion and be done or state something thats not rehashed from a previous post thats reworded. theres no way to convince someone set on what they believe.

[NOS2006]

The 420 hp in the XF is the middle engine. The XF-R will have over 500 hp from a new DOHC V8.

Well, for one, it's 416 HP, and no XF-R has been officially released to the public in any way. And, if you want to just speculate, then speculation says the V8 won't be new, but a modified version of the current supercharged 4.2L engine, probably just with a bigger supercharger.

I am not convinced that the CTS-V interior is any better than the STS-V interior, and the STS-V failed to compete with the M5 and E63. The Audi RS6 has 580 hp and no one considers that to be a benchmark car. But notice even Cadillac said BMW was their benchmark and what they aimed for. They admit they are chasing BMW rather than being a leader at performance/luxury.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I know engineers who worked on both the CTS and STS-V interiors and each and every one say the CTS is better in all ways. The CTS interior is the benchmark of its class and the STS isn't even close. The CTS has a much better design and feel to all of it. Its intent from the get-go was to be the class leader, and it attained that; the STS's design was just to get the car by. You can tell that just by comparing the interior of the NA market STS to the Chinese market STS.

Oh, and here's your ADD (yes, Attention Deficit Disorder) kicking in. The RS6 having 580 HP and not being a benchmark car is the new issue? Um, just think about it, what's that saying about Audi and the technology of its engine? Obviously, even with 580 HP, it isn't that great a car to have every other car in its class compared to it. Pay attention.

Aaaand back to the regularly scheduled Cadillac vs. BMW debate. Of course Cadillac set out for BMW. They also set out for Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus, and others. They didn't target just the M5. To say they're chasing BMW is wrong because obviously, even if they don't realize it, BMW is now behind the game when it comes to the CTS. You can't chase the people that are behind you in the race. Process of elimination tells you that, hey, they're chasing you!

Comparing the CTS to the 5-series is like comparing the G8 to the CTS. The G8 is rear drive, has leather seats and the same V6 and offers a V8 that is faster than a CTS DI for a lot less money, but there is a big difference in materials in a G8 and in a CTS. The same holds true for CTS and 5-series, they may have similar size and power/drivetrain, but there is a difference. I wish they would improve the CTS interior, load it with technology, put a $47,000 base price on the CTS and blow the 5-series away but Cadillac is afraid it seems of the higher end luxury market.

The 5-Series and CTS are in the same class and are different makes. The G8 and CTS are in different classes and made by the same company. You're retarded. Pontiac is a performance brand, Cadillac isn't, though it does have its performance V-Series line of vehicles. Therefore, the G8 requires balls-to-the-walls engines whereas the CTS doesn't. Its two V6 engines are more than sufficient, and when they add the diesel and V-Series LSA engine, it'll be even better.

CTS and 5-Series vehicles are similar, basically because they're in the same class. What is the big difference you're speaking of? You kind of lost me; you didn't clarify anything at all. Oh, and the CTS has been called out as the class-leader in technology, too.

Oh, and Cadillac's not afraid of the higher-end luxury market. Just because they don't target it with the CTS doesn't mean anything. By the way, the 5-Series isn't the high-end of the luxury market.

Cadillac could sell 750,000 cars a year if they were what they used to be, (1902-1959 era), but what they are now is a tier 2 luxury brand. I'd rather see them tier 1 and leading the way, not competing with Lincoln and Acura as to who can crank more power from a V6 because they are too gutless to make a V8 or V12 or a legit S-class competitor.

Cadillac isn't a Tier 2 luxury brand. This is a pointless argument.

What this means to you: Even if you win in the Special Olympics, you're still retarded.

[smk4565]

$31,600 is the blue book value of a 2004 E500 4-matic. A new E550 is $60,500 base price without all wheel drive. The last generation E-class had window controls in the middle by the shifter, but the current car has just the shifter and no switches in the middle. Mercedes puts seat controls on high on the door.

[smk4565]

I know the 5-series isn't a high end car, I stated earlier it is middle range. BMW has the 6 and 7 series priced higher, just like M-B has the CLS and S-class. Cadillac doesn't have a $100,000 sedan.

Here is why the CTS is not in the same class as the 5-series and E-class:

CTS base price $33,000, E-class is $51,000.

CTS needs to offer (they can be options) Bluetooth, 15 speaker 7.1 surround, power rear sunshade, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, head up display, adaptive cruise control, lane departure/blind spot warning, tool and first aid kit, at least 14 way power seats, 4 years paid for maintenance, 12 year rust warranty, power tilt/telescoping steering wheel, rear side window sunshades, electronic parking brake, a 380+ hp DOHC V8, a diesel, a 7 or 8 speed automatic, a hybrid. And that is to just get even.

To leap ahead I'd say diesel V8 possibly with belt-alternator light hybrid to really boost fuel economy, messaging seats like the S550 has, tri-zone climate control, 6 year/100k mile bumper to bumper warranty.

In response to NOS, I am not sure of how the CTS is ahead of the 5-series aside from USA sales, but the 5-series is a lot more expensive. The 5-series is the known standard and benchmark that other companies compare to. The Jaguar XF-R will have a 5.0 liter V8 with a supercharger.

Cadillac right now is tier 2, I wish they weren't but they are. CTS is $33k, STS and DTS are $43-44k. (sounds like Acura TL and RL) The XLR is $78k, but doesn't sell and depreciates quickly. To be a tier 1 brand they need a $48k base price sedan and an $85k base price sedan.

Edited January 11, 2008 by smk4565

[smk4565]

CTS and 5-Series vehicles are similar, basically because they're in the same class.

Why do all the car magazines compare the CTS to the 3-series, C350 and G35?

[Cory Wolfe]

I know the 5-series isn't a high end car, I stated earlier it is middle range. BMW has the 6 and 7 series priced higher, just like M-B has the CLS and S-class. Cadillac doesn't have a $100,000 sedan.

Here is why the CTS is not in the same class as the 5-series and E-class:

CTS base price $33,000, E-class is $51,000.

CTS needs to offer (they can be options) Bluetooth, 15 speaker 7.1 surround, power rear sunshade, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, head up display, adaptive cruise control, lane departure/blind spot warning, tool and first aid kit, at least 14 way power seats, 4 years paid for maintenance, 12 year rust warranty, power tilt/telescoping steering wheel, rear side window sunshades, electronic parking brake, a 380+ hp DOHC V8, a diesel, a 7 or 8 speed automatic, a hybrid. And that is to just get even.

To leap ahead I'd say diesel V8 possibly with belt-alternator light hybrid to really boost fuel economy, messaging seats like the S550 has, tri-zone climate control, 6 year/100k mile bumper to bumper warranty.

In response to NOS, I am not sure of how the CTS is ahead of the 5-series aside from USA sales, but the 5-series is a lot more expensive. The 5-series is the known standard and benchmark that other companies compare to. The Jaguar XF-R will have a 5.0 liter V8 with a supercharger.

Cadillac right now is tier 2, I wish they weren't but they are. CTS is $33k, STS and DTS are $43-44k. (sounds like Acura TL and RL) The XLR is $78k, but doesn't sell and depreciates quickly. To be a tier 1 brand they need a $48k base price sedan and an $85k base price sedan.

I've never seen such a baseless post.

[Lamar]

Why do all the car magazines compare the CTS to the 3-series, C350 and G35?

Because they're slow too?

[cletus8269]

Here is why the CTS is not in the same class as the 5-series and E-class:

CTS base price $33,000, E-class is $51,000.

CTS needs to offer (they can be options)1. Bluetooth, 2. 15 speaker 7.1 surround, 3. power rear sunshade, 4. heated steering wheel,5. heated rear seats,6. head up display, 7. adaptive cruise control,8. lane departure/blind spot warning,9. tool and first aid kit,10. at least 14 way power seats,11. 4 years paid for maintenance,12. 12 year rust warranty, 13. power tilt/telescoping steering wheel, 14. rear side window sunshades, 15.electronic parking brake,16. a 380+ hp DOHC V8, 17.a diesel, 18. a 7 or 8 speed automatic, 19. a hybrid. 20. And that is to just get even.

okay itemized list here we go:

1. arent those like $20 at bestbuy now?

2. are you driving a car or are you watching the latest dvd release

3. WTF its called window tint

4. already touched on that one in a previous post

5. whatever, a draw i guess but i still think they for sissies

6. there is one its called a windshield, you look out and well heads up.

7. have people become this lazy i mean really... does anyone still drive out there who can afford $45K cars?

8. its calld f#&*^$ pay attention to what you are doing. you shouldnt be shaving drinking coffee checking stocks and trying to find something good on the radio... drive already.

9. Advanced auto, sams club, target, the list goes on... an aftermarket one will probably have more of the stuff you'll really need with quality that you can depend on.

10.are there really 14 different directions a freakin seat needs to move? i can only think of 6... 8 if you inflate the stupid things... back, forward, tilting back and forward, and raising and lowering the back of the seat... my dads 94 z28 accomplishes this quite well.

11. isnt there a 5 yr 100K warranty out now? besides since the last time i read in the paper GM is trying its best to get out of the redzone this would quite effectively put them in chapter 11 in those 4 paid years.

12. do people still keep vehicles 12 yrs? im asking cause i dont know but the last time i heard it was a rare occasion when a vehicle got paid off.

13. again with the laziness... there are levers. you pull them then you let go when its in the right spot.

14. see #3

15. see #13

16. nothing wrong with the power plant... check

17. if it'll stop the whining

18. why so the transmission has something to do when it gets bored? 7...8...7...8... get my point?

19. al gore wants a caddy? i thought he was into yotas... thats what his son got busted high on pain meds speedin in 6 months ago.

20. so we took a few steps back to make it easy on bmlexbenz... thats fine, at least make it fair for them.

after all that would be put on the cars the wish for a caddy not being in the 30's and being in the 50's and 60's would be fulfilled and the average joe would be sayin well piss at one time i could afford a caddy but now i guess we'll just go buy BUICKS

Edited January 11, 2008 by cletus8269

[dado]

why would DOHC engine be requirement for E class, A6 etc competition(concerning V8 engines)?

Yes it would be nice if Cadillac make 5.0 l v8 DOHC engine with 380 hp. But same power could be achieved probably by using DI, vvt, 3v heads on same ohv displacement engine. And if we look at the new BMW V8 engine it is equip with Turbochargers. So why GM couldn't develop engine based on LS engine but with smaller displacement (around 5.0 l) put DI, VVT, 3valve heads with around 400 hp..of if they need bigger power they could put turbochargers on it (but this is engine between V series and v6 so it doesn't need 500 hp).

If i understand some people don't want small block because you can find same engine in chevy and pontiac and Cadillac is more expensive(one of the reason). But even northstar wasn't just in cadillac.

We don't know what will GM do but they need V8 engine for their top non-v models. Maybe something based on next gen LS but design just for cadillac wouldn't be so bad .

Edited January 11, 2008 by dado

[Drew Dowdell]

But Lexus has 3 hybrids: RX, GS and LS. Mercedes has E class and GL class diesel. BMW has 2 diesels going on sale during 2008 and X6 hybrid and 5-series diesel are coming soon.

Oh no... I was off by 1 in each category if you include cars that aren't even in production.... I was only counting cars but fine. Escalade Hybrid.

Isn't it telling that even to an enthusiast the GS400h is so forgettable?

Cadillac is already producing a CTS diesel. It is just not yet certified for sale in the US.

[Drew Dowdell]

Why do all the car magazines compare the CTS to the 3-series, C350 and G35?

because they share the same idiotic notions you do that price dictates class rather than size, performance, and features.

[Drew Dowdell]

CTS needs to offer (they can be options) 1. Bluetooth, 2. 15 speaker 7.1 surround, 3.power rear sunshade, 4.heated steering wheel, 5.heated rear seats, 6. head up display, 7. adaptive cruise control, 8.lane departure/blind spot warning, 9. tool and first aid kit, 10.at least 14 way power seats, 11. 4 years paid for maintenance, 12. 12 year rust warranty, 13. power tilt/telescoping steering wheel, 14. rear side window sunshades, 15. electronic parking brake, 16. a 380+ hp DOHC V8, 17. a diesel, 18.a 7 or 8 speed automatic, 19. a hybrid. And that is to just get even.

1. Available at your Cadillac dealer

2. A quick google search for "surround sound CD" and the first hit I come up with for a place that sells them is on page 3. I guarantee none of your current CDs have surround. - Red Herring

3. I hate these things, I wouldn't even want a manual one.

4. Red Herring - wear driving gloves... it's far classier.

5. I suppose ok on this one, Lincoln had it in the LS. I would be a minor upgrade that Cadillac could charge tools like you extra for.

6. You know, Cadillac used to offer heads up displays... before BMW or Mercedes ever did. They got blasted in the press for them... I'm not surprised they're a bit shy about including them even though they're cool now that BMW and Benz are doing them. I guess Cadillac should go back to column shift also.

7. eh

8. I suppose this is the reason I hate upper end BMW drivers yaking on the phone and drifting in and out of their lanes. shut up and drive. The visibility out of the CTS is already excellent and the mirrors are large. use your eyes.

9. My CTS came with a first aid kit... I dunno if it was dealer supplied or what, but I have it. The tool kit is what the blue OnStar button is for.

10. The seats fit me right the first time. Like Ron Popeil, I set it and forget it.

11. no thanks, pre-paid maintenance plans are notoriously a rip off. I'll take the $5k off the purchase price thanks. Cool that you fell for it though.

12. How many people are actually going to take their BMW in for rust repair after 11 years....? I mean come on. It's probably the 3rd owner by then and the warranty is invalid anyway.

13. fine, I'll give you this one... it really could use a telescoping wheel.

14. complete red-herring

15. Has it.

16. yeah, they could put a 380hp V8 in... or they could put a better performing, 400hp, V8 from the previous generation CTS-V and tune it more for luxury over sport.

17. already have a 2.9 liter diesel being built, just not yet certified for the US.

18. I will put up the GM 5-speed or 6-speed up against any of the 7 or 8 speeds from the competition in terms of reliability or smoothness.

19. So... wait... even though none of the competition offers both diesel and hybrid.... Cadillac has to offer both... just to stay even? How many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

[Casket Demon]

ewe. it got my monitor!

Oooo...it tastes like Cinnamon.

[smk4565]

All those luxury features I listed, Lexus, BMW or Mercedes offers. The 5-series has an optional 20 way seat; Mercedes has power head rests. Personally, I wouldn't pay for power sun shade, lane departure, or adaptive cruise control, but the other brands offer it. The Lexus GS is an 8 speed, the E-class is a 7-speed, the 5-series is going 8 speed on the new model. 8 speeds may not give much more benefit than 6, but it's a marketing tool and gives exclusivity. If the CTS wants to be in the $48-70k sedan class they have to offer that stuff. Even the Toyota Avalon has adaptive cruise control.

The CTS needs a diesel that averages 27-28 mpg or a hybrid version that does the same. If they offered both together they would blow away the competition.

The 5/100,000 is powertrain only, certified used Cadillacs have a 6/100,000 bumper to bumper, why not just make that standard on new cars if the car is truly reliable. BMW has a 12 year rust warranty, Cadillac's is 6 years. Saab even does free maintenance for 4 years, Cadillac should too. The long warranties help resale value because the car will sell with fewer discounts when new and be more desirable after 4-5 years on the used market because it will still be under warranty while other cars are not.

[Drew Dowdell]

The 5/100,000 is powertrain only, certified used Cadillacs have a 6/100,000 bumper to bumper, why not just make that standard on new cars if the car is truly reliable. BMW has a 12 year rust warranty, Cadillac's is 6 years. Saab even does free maintenance for 4 years, Cadillac should too. The long warranties help resale value because the car will sell with fewer discounts when new and be more desirable after 4-5 years on the used market because it will still be under warranty while other cars are not.

The dealer will be more than happy to charge you $12,000 for 4 years maintenance and 12 years rust protection if you're that worried about it and must have a car that is priced the same as the BMW.

Do you ever realize the idiocy of what you're saying... or are we just wasting bandwidth here?