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UTT OHH, Zeta Platform in question

Oracle of Delphi

By Oracle of Delphi
in The Lounge

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Oracle of Delphi Newbie

Oracle of Delphi

Posted
Posted (edited)

As promised the GM SHOW is about to begin, hey kids? The Börger and his friends within GM now have the keys to the kingdom.

Here is something else you can gnash your teeth on. 2008 promises to be even more fun, the economy will play a big part, people will not be buying cars in 2008 like they did before.

Got your popcorn ready? It's going to be a great show.

Oh and I want to thank those here that gave me the inspiration to help bring GM Europe's vision of GM to life. You know who you are. :scratchchin:

Oh and TICK-TOCK! :AH-HA_wink:

Just some light reading, enjoy: http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/04/gen...rearwheeld.html

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
GMTruckGuy74 Newbie

GMTruckGuy74

Posted
Posted
Here is something else you can gnash your teeth on. 2008 promises to be even more fun, the economy will play a big part, people will not buying cars in 2008 like they did before.

So are you saying that GM will be sweetening the deals to move product in 2008 to those that will be in the market? Because if that's true, I'm hoping to cash in when the Envoy lease expires on or before the summer!!!

ocnblu Newbie

ocnblu

Posted
Posted
So, you and your buddies are running the great Bob Lutz out of town, only to replace his promising vision with your own dull, gray, tiny, FWD bitter pill. I am not impressed, Borger. <_<
z28luvr01 Newbie

z28luvr01

Posted
Posted

This is an old article and we've already moaned and groaned over it. Still, I don't doubt it's the case.

I have some interesting thoughs on this subject, and you'll probably get to read them by the time the weekend's out. Oh, and :smilewide:

XP715 Newbie

XP715

Posted
Posted

No Zeta platform, eh? Well then it looks like it's time to find myself a little shop because I see rebuilding a lot of old Cadillacs and Chevy trucks in my future. If GM isn't going to build vehicles that appeal to me then I'll just have to redo the ones they used to build to ready them for daily service again.

Drew Dowdell Grand Master

Drew Dowdell

Posted
Posted

From the article:

So it comes down to the matter of fuel economy. Or as Lutz says: "We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from" RWD cars.

:bs: Sorry, this is just FUD. While I do believe there is a difference in economy between FWD and RWD, it's not great enough that there couldn't be a substantial improvement for both.

As much as I like Lutz, I have to call him out on this as either a lie or intentional FUD. They do know how to get 30% better CAFE mileage from RWD cars. It's called FlexFuel. It's called 2-mode Hybrid. It's called new diesel technology. It's called E-Flex.

The Volt comes out in 2010. The new CAFE regs hit 35mpg in what..2022? If GM can't expand E-Flex technology to cover full size sedans in 14 years, they should really just close up shop now and sell the whole thing off.

edit: for those of you who don't read SlashDot.org, FUD means "Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt"

Camino LS6 Newbie

Camino LS6

Posted
Posted
No Zeta platform, eh? Well then it looks like it's time to find myself a little shop because I see rebuilding a lot of old Cadillacs and Chevy trucks in my future. If GM isn't going to build vehicles that appeal to me then I'll just have to redo the ones they used to build to ready them for daily service again.

+1

No German or Korean mini-mobiles will ever pollute my driveway.

Z-06 Newbie

Z-06

Posted
Posted
From the article:

:bs: Sorry, this is just FUD. While I do believe there is a difference in economy between FWD and RWD, it's not great enough that there couldn't be a substantial improvement for both.

As much as I like Lutz, I have to call him out on this as either a lie or intentional FUD. They do know how to get 30% better CAFE mileage from RWD cars. It's called FlexFuel. It's called 2-mode Hybrid. It's called new diesel technology. It's called E-Flex.

The Volt comes out in 2010. The new CAFE regs hit 35mpg in what..2022? If GM can't expand E-Flex technology to cover full size sedans in 14 years, they should really just close up shop now and sell the whole thing off.

I totally agree.

Z-06 Newbie

Z-06

Posted
Posted

Agreeing to drive Opel minis and micros with no RWD enjoyment of powertrain, is like surrendering the freedom and independence this country has given its citizens.

Yes, the driving habits should change no doubt, but not by force from the outsiders, the force should be from within.

vonVeezelsnider Newbie

vonVeezelsnider

Posted
Posted

Ya Know... At this point, I could really care less if Zeta happens or not... I mean FWD or RWD or even AWD I could care less. All I want is a BIG, AMERICAN, CAR. Is that so hard? I am really wary of talk of replacing the Impala with EPII or cutting it altogether, what does this do for me? Take Impala out of the picture. When I go to buy a car from GM, I'll have the following choices based on my own criteria: DTS Replacement, Lucerne Replacement, Regal. Hoping that the new Regal is a real Buick and not a warmed over Lexus that looks like a Buick, a relatively base model one will be in my grasp (I Hope).

With the moving of Buick upmarket, There will not be anything to directly replace the Impala should it be discontinued. Just like the LeSabre, the Impala is a premium American family sedan, not a Near-Luxury or Luxury Car. If there is equivalent offering to the current Lucerne CX in the new large Buick sedan as a result of the move upmarket, than the Impala has to stay, because there is no more brand overlap, and it won't be splitting sales with the other similarly priced W-Bodies or the Lucerne CX, this increasing sales quite a bit methinks. Weather the NG Impala is a Zeta, a Modified-to-fit-a-6-Speed G-Body, or an EPII that somehow doesn't drive like a Malibu, it needs to be there.

Oracle of Delphi Newbie

Oracle of Delphi

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
I hope GM doesn't succumb to those German surrender monkeys.

You know Oldsmoboi, I am sure there are many German members of C&G, either in Germany or German by decent that would not find your comment funny. After all you wouldn't say the N word would you or call the Japanese a Jap or a Gay person a Faggot would you? So German surrender monkeys is equally offensive! :scratchchin:

Here maybe this will open up your mind, http://www.gmeurope.tv

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
Drew Dowdell Grand Master

Drew Dowdell

Posted
Posted
You know Oldsmoboi, I am sure there are many German members of C&G, either in Germany or German by decent that would not find your comment funny. After all you wouldn't say the N word would you or call the Japanese a Jap or a Gay person a Faggot would you? So German surrender monkeys is equally offensive! :scratchchin:

Here maybe this will open up your mind, http://www.gmeurope.tv

Apparently my targeting sensors have pinpoint accuracy. The comment was meant specifically for your consumption. :AH-HA_wink:

vonVeezelsnider Newbie

vonVeezelsnider

Posted
Posted (edited)
The issues at hand are far larger than the fate of Impala.

I know, I know. We need the Camaro, we need a Pontiac version with 1977 Firebird Retro Cues, we need an Impala that is a retro throwback to 1965 or 1966 (all these will sell dammit, RWD or not for the Impala), we need to move G8 Production to the good old USA or at Least Canada, this decision on the Impala at the end of the day has the possibility to make or break at least one division: Pontiac.

Edited by vonVeezelsnider
Camino LS6 Newbie

Camino LS6

Posted
Posted
I know, I know. We need the Camaro, we need a Pontiac version with 1977 Firebird Retro Cues, we need an Impala that is a retro throwback to 1965 or 1966 (all these will sell dammit, RWD or not for the Impala), we need to move G8 Production to the good old USA or at Least Canada, this decision on the Impala at the end of the day has the possibility to make or break at least one division: Pontiac.

Much larger than even all of that.

Oracle of Delphi Newbie

Oracle of Delphi

Posted
  • Author
Posted
So are you saying that GM will be sweetening the deals to move product in 2008 to those that will be in the market? Because if that's true, I'm hoping to cash in when the Envoy lease expires on or before the summer!!!

Oops, missed this question earlier, sorry!

It's doubtful, in 2008 you will see GM slow production or even halt production on models that are not selling. That way it won't have to rely on rebates to move vehicles. :thumbsup:

Oracle of Delphi Newbie

Oracle of Delphi

Posted
  • Author
Posted
This is an old article and we've already moaned and groaned over it. Still, I don't doubt it's the case.

I have some interesting thoughs on this subject, and you'll probably get to read them by the time the weekend's out. Oh, and :smilewide:

I'm sure you do, but what is, is. I look forward to reading your story. :AH-HA_wink:

Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

Posted
Posted

Real Germans do not preach the anti-RWD bull&#036;h&#33;.

REAL Germans drive BMW M6s and tool around town in a big body diesel Benz.

FUTURE_OF_GM Newbie

FUTURE_OF_GM

Posted
Posted (edited)

Honestly.... I'm just tired of the smoke and mirrors.

I want GM or the industry to tell me exactly where we stand and exactly what that means I WILL NOT be able to buy.

If Congress just single handedly euthanized the american auto industry (Which I'm sure was the intent of AT LEAST half of it' members as well as MOST of the 'green' lobbyists) then I want to know.

I want a promise from SOMEONE that we will continue to innovate and do our best to have a CHOICE to buy what we want instead of taking the easy road out and giving up (Which is what it means to be an american now)

I have no problem driving classics for the rest of my tenure, but I want to know now so I can prepare a fleet of cars and an arsenal of guns.

As far as Pontiac, which is the elephant at the top of the thread that no one wants to talk about, it does not need Zeta to survive as long as Alpha pulls through and GM continues to put effort into the division. The Zeta volume is minimal in the first place. I personally think GM can still pull Zeta off, and I don't know what the damn big deal is. We have flex fuels, diesels, electricity, d.o.d. and a lot of other fuel saving technologies at our expense -AND- CAFE is already measured higher than window stickers. As someone else said, if GM can't meet this improvement with a bit better mix of product (Which should be here from a sales/business standpoint anyway) then they might as well just close up shop now.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted (edited)
Real Germans do not preach the anti-RWD bull&#036;h&#33;.

REAL Germans drive BMW M6s and tool around town in a big body diesel Benz.

Maybe the wealthy...average Germans probably drive FWD Golfs, Polos, Vectras, Astras, Corsas, Focuses, Mondeos, etc...the typical European mainstream models.

Edited by moltar
z28luvr01 Newbie

z28luvr01

Posted
Posted
I'm sure you do, but what is, is. I look forward to reading your story. :AH-HA_wink:

The time is fast approaching. I hope you still have your popcorn ready. I personally prefer Jujyfruits or Dots to popcorn. It will be a great read.

As the old saying goes: TICK-TOCK :AH-HA_wink:

z28luvr01 Newbie

z28luvr01

Posted
Posted

You're close, BV. Think of a word that rhymes with tick, then you'll know the word that describes this wizard to which PCS refers. :D

Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted
You're close, BV. Think of a word that rhymes with tick, then you'll know the word that describes this wizard to which PCS refers. :D

Dick? Rick Waggoner?

Guest YellowJacket894

Guest YellowJacket894

Posted
Posted

Well, all I have to say is I had better get the keys to my goddamned Camaro before the &#036;h&#33; hits the fan. :AH-HA_wink:

Z-06 Newbie

Z-06

Posted
Posted
Maybe I better look into getting rid of the AURA lease sometime before the end of 2008 if I want to get myself a GMC Sierra Crew Cab Z71 4WD? :scratchchin:

Do it because we may probably see Lambda based Pickup because of CAFE.

GMTruckGuy74 Newbie

GMTruckGuy74

Posted
Posted
Do it because we may probably see Lambda based Pickup because of CAFE.

I'm sure I recall that at one point, GM was working on a Lambda pickup design. Maybe because of the new CAFE regs, GM will dust off those shevled plans and introduce these new "pickups" to the market? Those consumers that will need the full-size, BOF trucks will still be able to get them, but those that will only require the use of a pickup occasionally and/or want a more car-like ride & features, the Lambda pickups will be for them (much like now how those that need a Yukon/Yukon XL buy them, and those not needing those specific capabilities buy the Acadia/Enclave).

I'm not making light of your suggestion, but we must realize that the GM we all love and know will have to adjust for the future. If that means more mainstreamed pickups coming to market that get better gas mileage and work for the majority of pickup buyers that don't necessarily need a full-size, BOF pickup, so be it. The Canyon pales in comparison to the Sierra, so maybe a bit larger but more efficient Lambda may take it's place in the market?

I'll still going to do what I can to get a Sierra though!!! :P

regfootball Community Regular

regfootball

Posted
Posted (edited)

wasn't VW's truck the first unibody pickup? LOL. I think there would be a market for small pickups if still done right. My BIL in CA has a nifty simple extended cab ranger. I would assume he got it for a good price because he doesn't want to spend a lot on a car or need to drive a lot.

GM and FOrd screwed the pooch on their compact trucks, abondoning any sort of good effort on them. A lambda truck may be what a lot of folks need out of a pickup and you can bet they will be lot classier than the ridgeline.

chevy could use a little unibody FWD/AWD delta based pickup and a mid size pickup done a heckuva lot better than the colorado.

imagine a little chevy diesel truck. 40mpg, chugga chugga!

Edited by regfootball
ocnblu Newbie

ocnblu

Posted
Posted (edited)

Sweet, it has a gun rack. :AH-HA_wink:

I personally wouldn't mind the Montana being sold here (as long as it is an addition to the lineup, and not a replacement for anything), with a freshened-up front end and interior, AWD availability and a little diesel as an option, with 2.2 and 2.4L Ecotec power along as options as well.

Edited by ocnblu

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