US aid in Domestic automakers?

[razoredge]

I love Canadians ! They are our brothers!

I made more income in 3 years selling product to Canadians than I did in 10 years prior getting screwed by my own.

If theres so much oil in Canada why do we even deal with those other people ? How much fuel do they burn just getting the stuff to our ports ?

Socialized healthcare ? I dont know ? How about a strong, healthy, well balanced economy in which our incomes through employment support a much less perverted health care system ?

Ey ?

Dumb, dumber and dumbest

Government Help ? Many of these conversations made over the last month would have never occured if our Government was doing its job. Serve and Protect its citizens. Rather ,it has been off here, and off there serving and protecting our adversaries, somewhat for US, who BTW really do hate us. Sure some of it was necessary or seemed so but somehow in the end it always seems more questionable than necessary and damn expensive. Thats the downside of being the leading power. Still and all while being this leader, police officer, great crusader, we needed to keep our eye on the game at home. Theres no excuse for alot of whats going on here.

In America

Why are we worried about declining... in anything ?

[I hope GMRULES again]

Canada Has No Military - with the teeney amount of money they send on defense , it is basically the Boy Scouts - armed and a few planes . The massive taxation blasted on the Canadian system makes the US an attractive place to emigrate to . This is the United States , home of the rugged individual , we have proof that 40 years of a welfare state has basically destroyed us . We are supposed to be a constitutional state - where in the heck does it say in the constitution that my FIFTY PERCENT of my labor be spent on college tuition for suburbanites and needles for junkies , farm subsidies , horrible schools , unionized floor sweepers with better bennies than GM employees ever could hope for . And hey Canada , thank you for the EZ entry asylum system that allows terrorists to live really close to NY , Whiney losers .

[post="30766"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Somebody is in a bad mood. We don't need a powerful military because we tend not to invade other weak countries for no reason except maybe for their oil, therefore we don't have a lot of enemies. I can think of better ways to go into debt for 80 billion. I think you should be worrying about the terrorists who live in New York as oppossed to the ones who live close to New York.

[Petra]

There can be no winner in this debate. There, I just saved you 5 pages of angry, inflammatory and unnecessary posts. Now, can we try and get back on topic here?

[Newbiewar]

There can be no winner in this debate. There, I just saved you 5 pages of angry, inflammatory and unnecessary posts. Now, can we try and get back on topic here?

[post="31236"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

i hope so...

why wont USA help out one the worlds largest corperations? and one a very large supplier of jobs

[Newbiewar]

i hope so...

why wont USA help out one the worlds largest corperations? and one a very large supplier of jobs

[post="31312"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

canada is willing to help GM... Canada wants GM to open plants, they are willing to pay GM to do things here or there, employee so many people... Canada is willing to help GM why isnt USA willing to?

[CARBIZ]

Unfortunately, Canada is becoming a bit of a whore in this respect. Toyota just turned ground on an $800 million dollar plant in Woodstock and by the looks of things about a $120 million dollars of that is coming from the federal and provincial government. Prop up Woodstock and shut down Oshawa. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What would make sense is if both Ottawa and Washington passed a law that forbade all states/provinces from subsidizing these welfare corporations.

[sciguy_0504]

Ok, so explain to me why the US is heading for half a Trillion dollar defecit and the Medicare Canadian government is heading for a 5 billion surplus? Even it's poorest provinces are begining to register surplus'
But then again, because I can recieve free medicare, I am too lazy to find out which provinces are in the red!  :lol:

[post="30660"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You can live in your own socialist paradise up north but you should ask yourself this question: if Medicare Canada is heading for a $5 billion surplus are you paying too much in taxes or is the government being stingy with what services it will pay for?

I refuse to pay for health insurance for anyone other than myself - rich, poor, white, black, legal, illegal, man, woman.

[sciguy_0504]

Somebody is in a bad mood. We don't need a powerful military because we tend not to invade other weak countries for no reason except maybe for their oil, therefore  we don't have a lot of enemies. I can think of better ways to go into debt for 80 billion. I think you should be worrying about the terrorists who live in New York as oppossed to the ones who live close to New York.

[post="31111"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Maybe the U.S. should invade Canada? It's weak and there's no other reason to invade it except oil.

[Cremazie]

Maybe the U.S. should invade Canada?  It's weak and there's no other reason to invade it except oil.

[post="31728"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Come on over, have a beer! You ever see Canadian Bacon? Hilarious movie http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

You can live in your own socialist paradise up north but you should ask yourself this question: if Medicare Canada is heading for a $5 billion surplus are you paying too much in taxes or is the government being stingy with what services it will pay for?

Our taxes are too high, I don't think you'll find a Canadian that would argue any differently. To go along with what you are saying, if I lived in the states I would undoubtably be better off.

[I hope GMRULES again]

Maybe the U.S. should invade Canada?  It's weak and there's no other reason to invade it except oil.

[post="31728"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Don't forget about our fresh water, that could be #2 on Bush's list. We also have real beer and the legal drinking age is 18. :lol:

[razoredge]

You can live in your own socialist paradise up north but you should ask yourself this question:  if Medicare Canada is heading for a $5 billion surplus are you paying too much in taxes or is the government being stingy with what services it will pay for?

I refuse to pay for health insurance for anyone other than myself - rich, poor, white, black, legal, illegal, man, woman.

[post="31725"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You have so much to learn :rolleyes:

[sciguy_0504]

You have so much to learn  :rolleyes:

[post="31820"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Like what?

Don't give me some long winded speech on "growing up" and "living in the real world." Explain to me why I should have to pay for health insurance for others and rely on people to pay for mine.

[haypops]

Like what?

Don't give me some long winded speech on "growing up" and "living in the real world."  Explain to me why I should have to pay for health insurance for others and rely on people to pay for mine.

[post="31878"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Because that's how insurance works. Do you have insurance on your home, car, etc.?

[sciguy_0504]

I said "should" but I meant "be forced." I elect to get insurance from a company for myself (and yes, I rely on others) but if the government supplies any type of insurance I am forced to pay for it, something I refuse to do.

[haypops]

I said "should" but I meant "be forced."  I elect to get insurance from a company for myself (and yes, I rely on others) but if the government supplies any type of insurance I am forced to pay for it, something I refuse to do.

[post="32290"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The government forces you to get liability insurance n your car and your mortgage broker forces you to buy title insurance on your car. Furthermore if you buy your home with less than 20% down payment the lender also requires PMI, the cruelist insurance of all.

[razoredge]

You always pay , it doesnt matter one way or the other you always pay. some % of tax's go for welfare. many on welfare live better than the working poor. I dont know who pays for their health issues and givin birth to all em babys ? At least it wont be you imigration - very expensive burdon on our government, their health issues are also takin care of but at least it wont be you ? medicaid - now here one not to bitch about. I dont know entirely howe it works but it takes care of the retired folks that worked hard their whole life for peanuts and have no way what so ever to pay for their doctors visits. Many can hardley afford their inflated property tax's. I have no problem with medicaid for the retired working poor. They had a large hand in making what was once great about America. Not the ribbon cutters, bottle breakers & champagne toasters.

[sciguy_0504]

The government forces you to get liability insurance n your car and your mortgage broker forces you to buy title insurance on your car.  Furthermore if you buy your home with less than 20% down payment the lender also requires PMI, the cruelist insurance of all.

[post="32293"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You can spin it any way you want in order to make a socialist national health care system seem great but I stand by what I said: I won't pay for it. The day the some liberal institutes a national health care policy is the day I leave and unlike the Bush bashers who claimed they'd flee after he was reelected I'll stand by my word.

[razoredge]

You can spin it any way you want in order to make a socialist national health care system seem great but I stand by what I said:  I won't pay for it.  The day the some liberal institutes a national health care policy is the day I leave and unlike the Bush bashers who claimed they'd flee after he was reelected I'll stand by my word.

[post="32386"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:lol: yes indeed a little wet behind the ears yet. :lol:

Nobody spun anything, we just told you whats really going on. Got a job yet ? :lol:

[CARBIZ]

I used to be a big socialist but as I get older (and gain wealth) my views are hardening. NObody deserves a free ride, but it strikes me that in this day and age medical care SHOULD be a right. How that is paid for is clearly a controversial subject, but the real problem is whether you want an elected official in Ottawa/Washington to make decisions about your health, or an unelected paper pusher at a private health center. Capitalism and competition sound great on paper, but we all know that corporations, as a general rule, will cut corners any way they can. (Insert your favorite corporate scandal here: Enron, Bhopal, Love Canal, Three Mile Island). Like it or not, the government is forced to intervene anyway. We also know that government pork barreling and graft sucks up a lot of money. Which is better? I, personally, am undecided. Both systems have pros and cons. Perhaps a hybrid system is the answer?

[CaddyXLR-V]

:lol: yes indeed a little wet behind the ears yet.  :lol:

Nobody spun anything, we just told you whats really going on. Got a job yet ?  :lol:

[post="32502"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Do you make comments like that just to aggrevate people? Seems like you do. Stop assuming anyone who isn't old doesn't know anything. I'm sure his beliefs have nothing to do with his age, mine don't have anything to do with my age either.

Are you relying on SSI yet? :lol:

[haypops]

Carbiz: Thanks for the reasoned reply. I have a little personal anectodote that may shed a little light on the situation that you question. A nurse that works for my daughter held a second similar Emergency Room position at an HMO in addition to the private pay hospital where they worked togetnher. This HMO was the very same one that Mrs. Clinton modeled her proposed national program after. That nurse relayed that the patients at the HMO just didn't have the severe medical conditions that the private pay patients exhibited. To make an automotive analogy it is like getting the oil changed on your car. You don't want to pay the $25 for an oil change several times a year but you do it because it saves thousands of dollars by year's end. National health care is like an oil change for society. You can pay a little now, or a lot later.

[regfootball]

Perhaps a hybrid system is the answer?

[post="32508"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Leave the Prius out of this

[regfootball]

if we have socialized health care, watch the borders get overrun with folks coming into our country illegally

[razoredge]

Do you make comments like that just to aggrevate people? Seems like you do. Stop assuming anyone who isn't old doesn't know anything. I'm sure his beliefs have nothing to do with his age, mine don't have anything to do with my age either.

Are you relying on SSI yet?  :lol:

[post="32514"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It says what it says xlr, it is what it is. The comments were immature and very green. Glad to see your still holding each others hands. :unsure:

[razoredge]

if we have socialized health care, watch the borders get overrun with folks coming into our country illegally

[post="32528"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Would that be something new ?

[sciguy_0504]

:lol: yes indeed a little wet behind the ears yet.  :lol:

Nobody spun anything, we just told you whats really going on. Got a job yet ?  :lol:

[post="32502"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Actually, I have a job and I'm going to college. http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[Cory Wolfe]

:blink: Is it me, or is razor throwing out alot of personal attacks? Discriminating based on one's age? And doing as CaddyXLR pretty much said? IMO, it sure does look like it...

[The O.C.]

if we have socialized health care, watch the borders get overrun with folks coming into our country illegally

[post="32528"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Our borders are ALREADY overrun with folks coming into our country illegally.....(at least here in California, and I'm sure Texas and south Florida....)

[haypops]

Our borders are ALREADY overrun with folks coming into our country illegally.....(at least here in California, and I'm sure Texas and south Florida....)

[post="32885"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And they get free medical care too.

[The O.C.]

:blink: Is it me, or is razor throwing out alot of personal attacks? Discriminating based on one's age? And doing as CaddyXLR pretty much said? IMO, it sure does look like it...

[post="32546"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Sure.....Razor can have whatever opinions he wants....just as all of us can.

However, to me, it seems like he's constantly grasping at whatever straws he can because more-or-less, he keeps fighting a battle of opinion that is very difficult for him to defend.....

The world's a different place now and the U.S. is not the only major economic power in the world. We are also seeing the unprecedented fact that now even so-called "third-world" nations are becoming major worldwide economic powers (Korea, China, etc.)

This country can NEVER go backwards to try to recapture the economic status we've enjoyed for so many decades. The U.S.A. can never remain complacent....The Big Three remained complacent for too many decades in the face of import competition.....and look at what that protectionist attitude got them....

The United States will continue to develop and build upon our economic vitality...but it won't be by ignoring the rest of the world....

[Hogans_Heroes]

Saving the X (Auto) Industry: “The X industry is sick. The X industry is dying. It must be saved. It can be saved only by a tariff, by higher prices, or by subsidy. If it is allowed to die, workers will be thrown on the streets. Their landlords, grocers, butchers, clothing stores, and local motion pictures will lose business, and depression will spread in ever-widening circles. But if the X industry, by prompt action of Congress is saved – ah then!” – Henry Hazlitt (or, as his friends liked to call him "H.H.") :)

[razoredge]

Jeeze boys give me a break. Its like your talking to each other about me and a what am I supposed to say? Kinda like one of those clicky things. Well, Im never one to take anything lyin down and am always up for a challange so deal with my edgyness.

I said sciguy has alot to learn, which he does, which all younger dudes do or did. Much like I have much more to learn in the next 20 years, get over it. What I said to sciguy, I said to him not anyone else, and I was not wrong. We all including OC just mentioned the already existing socialized benefits within this country that we do have to contribute to. Most of them have always been in effect in this country, however they have been severely abused in more recent times.

It was perhaps rough saying green and wet behind the ears but I was getting wore down by the insistance that things are any different than what they are. It took me along time to get wore down by all this insistance too so give me a break. Im too am tired of all the firing out "socialist" "communist" "protectionalist", if someone fires, Im fireing back in grand 'ol American fashion.

For cryin out loud do you guys have children ? If you do and dont care about this countrys position in the world or are willing to concede to a bunch of corporate propaganda which only benefits a few in this country well, I believe you are sick.

If you believe I am grasping at straws, so be it. I am not grasping at straws. I actually live down here in the pits, work hard am uninsured and am a non union member of the working poor. I have performed in work areas that I enjoy and few can handle and was gaining ground until some industries went global. Which actually meant they went Anti USA and their money was no longer accessible by myself and many others no matter how hard one worked. I have watched the balance of the scale become increasingly heavy on one side while ignoring the other. No its not all bad but you can damn well be sure I'll be pushing for a better world for all of us - that deserve it, that is. Many I believe are golden and dont need more but they are takin more out of "our" hides. Its doesnt seem like anything hard to explain to me nor does it feel like Im grasping at straws.

I do read everyones post and usually absorb what they are saying but I refuse to see the world down the global one way street. Global does not benefit me or "my kind". Therefore alittle protectionalism or social conscience would better benefit myself and millions like me, and I believe many that are yet to be born. Perhaps if you dont think so than maybe your calling the Japanese stupid ? Now we all know better than that. Perhaps we should start following by their lead ?

Carry on :unsure: Edited October 23, 2005 by razoredge

[Fiero88]

Saving the X (Auto) Industry:
“The X industry is sick. The X industry is dying. It must be saved. It can be saved only by a tariff, by higher prices, or by subsidy. If it is allowed to die, workers will be thrown on the streets. Their landlords, grocers, butchers, clothing stores, and local motion pictures will lose business, and depression will spread in ever-widening circles.  But if the X industry, by prompt action of Congress is saved – ah then!” – Henry Hazlitt (or, as his friends liked to call him "H.H.") :)

[post="32906"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

if'n X industry means GM yep your right it's sick.... sick by it's own doing it's die'n or at least here in our land it is, over elsewhere I think they be thrivin' but thats on other book I think. The meds GM is giving itself to stop the symptom is going to kill it's whole body but what ya think those college boys sure know mor than I do. I'd think if we just rolled up and played it as dum as mexico, china, jaapan koorea or any of those other forign named coutries we would come out of this mess stil a tick'n tic/toc tic/toc course our democrcy probably take a sizeable hit ooooppps it's not a democrcy now is it.. I had teach once told me that said it was somethin' else, da*ned if'n I remember somethin to do with it all be a sham because we don't elect with our vote or somethin like that. them politicians run the country for the rich and keeps us blinded with all the mumble jumbo, hocus pocus suff and the trinkets from our capitalist friends... oh well enough ramblin' I sure wish we could focus on the reel problems facin us and quit shootin at people we don't even know.

[Hogans_Heroes]

... Edited October 24, 2005 by Hogans_Heroes

[evok]

if'n X industry means GM  yep your right it's sick.... sick by it's own doing it's die'n or at least here in our land it is, over elsewhere I think they be thrivin' but thats on other book I think.  The meds GM is giving itself to stop the symptom is going to kill it's whole body but what ya think those college boys sure know mor than I do.  I'd think if we just rolled up and played it as dum as mexico, china, jaapan koorea or any of those other forign named coutries we would come out of this mess stil a tick'n  tic/toc tic/toc  course our democrcy probably take a sizeable hit  ooooppps it's not a democrcy now is it.. I had teach once told me that said it was somethin' else, da*ned if'n I remember somethin to do with it all be a sham because we don't elect with our vote or somethin like that.  them politicians run the country for the rich and keeps us blinded with all the mumble jumbo, hocus pocus suff and the trinkets from our capitalist friends...  oh well enough ramblin'  I sure wish we could focus on the reel problems facin us and quit shootin at people we don't even know.

[post="33084"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

HUH

[Flybrian]

HUH

[post="33293"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

What? You've never been to Koorea or Jaapan?

[evok]

What? You've never been to Koorea or Jaapan?

[post="33295"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I am still trying to locate them on a map. Even mapquest.com seems to be confused. I have also tried bablefish to translate the post. That site is baffled as well.

[haypops]

I am still trying to locate them on a map.  Even mapquest.com seems to be confused. 

[post="33298"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I realise that this isn't the point of this thread of posts(what is the point?) but I have gotten several bad results from mapquest lately and much prefer google maps.

[Fiero88]

razor, yur rite these boys sur hav a prblm readin and writin' they can't even reply with a full thalt. "..." "huh" tic/toc tic/toc

[CaddyXLR-V]

razor, yur rite these boys sur hav a prblm readin and writin'

they can't even reply with a full thalt.

"..."
"huh"
tic/toc tic/toc

[post="33394"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes, I guess we all forgot to take the foreign language of Jibberish in school. I see your the master of it though.

[Fiero88]

Yes, I guess we all forgot to take the foreign language of Jibberish in school. I see your the master of it though.

[post="33429"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Ain't it jibberish the stuff you all feedin people too?
The UAW jibberish is workers givin up $2,000 to $3,000 a year and still not paying anything into the cost of the healthcare plan you all so complain about. It sure doesn't make since to me. If I was a UAW worker I would demand any money I paid in be set aside for my healthcare expense. $2000 to $3000 a year is alot more than most of you that are bitchin is payin, I'm sure. Instead it's $2000 or $3000 that just disappears in the mumble jumble bookkeeping of todays accountants.
UAW people DON'T just forgo your future raises, instead just agree to pay $1 an hour of your income into healthcare and let them show the deduction on your paycheck, that will shut up all these people who are bitc#in about you not contributing to you own healthcare plan. The way GM and the Union are proposing to stiff you is a crock. Also don't let them run the money through the UAW for it to disappear, just demand that GM account for it. Heck it will show up on your pay stubs every check and totals too this way. Edited October 24, 2005 by Fiero88

[razoredge]

Yes, I guess we all forgot to take the foreign language of Jibberish in school. I see your the master of it though.

[post="33429"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Come on now, lets try to be tactful.

I dont have that much trouble understanding his views from his rite'n.

And I agree if someone wanted to respond, they should have responded.

I thought we were all opened minded, except for myself that is, and qeeze look at how it goes.

Come on now

:CG_all:

[CaddyXLR-V]

Come on now, lets try to be tactful.

I dont have that much trouble understanding his views from his rite'n.

And I agree if someone wanted to respond, they should have responded.

I thought we were all opened minded, except for myself that is, and qeeze look at how it goes.

Come on now

:CG_all:

[post="33536"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

But I didn't even know what his view was from his earlier post. And judging from the few posts after his, neither could anyone else. Edited October 24, 2005 by CaddyXLR-V

[Hogans_Heroes]

razor, yur rite these boys sur hav a prblm readin and writin'

they can't even reply with a full thalt.

"..."
"huh"
tic/toc tic/toc

[post="33394"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Fiero,

For a brief period, I'd replied to say I remember having nearly as hard a time as a sixth grader following the character Jim in Mark Twain's "Huckleberry Finn" as I did in trying to understand your post in response to Hazlitt.

Then, I surfed over to the "Tracinda pledges GM stock as collateral for loan" thread to check for any comments in repsonse to my BofA theory and found only yours. Not knowing whether it was mere further banter or a geniune effort at making an intelligible remark, I leaned towards the latter and reconsidered my previous less-than-jestful response above.

So, thinking better of it all, I then quickly deleted the post critical of your efforts at communication. Not knowing how to delete a post entirely, I replaced my comments with ellipses.

This is what you interpreted as lack of a "full thalt". Edited October 25, 2005 by Hogans_Heroes

[Fiero88]

Fiero,

For a brief period, I'd replied to say I remember having nearly as hard a time as a sixth grader following the character Jim in Mark Twain's "Huckleberry Finn" as I did in trying to understand your post in response to Hazlitt.
....
"full thalt".

[post="33830"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Just banter...