Lutz: new Buick LaCrosse a "mind-boggler"

[wildcat]

In a December 21, 2007 Forbes.com article by Jerry Flint, "Backseat Driver: The Road to More Market Share," Bob Lutz implies that the new Buick LaCrosse will be impressive, perhaps overwhelming. And is the LaCrosse, on GM's new Epsilon II architecture, coming sooner than we think?

According to the article, "Among the cars coming soon will be a Saturn Astra compact and the Pontiac G8 rear-wheel-drive sedan, both imports; then a new Buick LaCrosse sedan ("It's going to be a mind-boggler," says Lutz), the Chevy Traverse crossover SUV next fall, the Chevy Camaro in early 2009, and a new Chevy Cobalt compact." [ bold added by wildcat ]

To view Flint's entire piece with Lutz, click here.

[Paolino]

They have my attention. I'm waiting patiently.

[CSpec]

I have a sneaking suspicion the Lacrosse will put the ES, TL, Passat, etc to shame.

[gm4life]

If it will be what they say I have no doubt.

[knightfan26917]

mind-boggler?

Will it be RWD?

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.lego.HO.model.MCs.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower" ... Counting Crows ... 'A Long December'

[Drew Dowdell]

mind-boggler?

Will it be RWD?

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.lego.HO.model.MCs.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"I guess the winter makes you laugh a little slower" ... Counting Crows ... 'A Long December'

It's on Epsilon II and it's an ES330 competitor.

no, no RWD

[knightfan26917]

It's on Epsilon II and it's an ES330 competitor.

no, no RWD

Hmm...then it will be interesting to see what he defines as "mind boggling" then....

*sighs*

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.lego.HO.model.MCs.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"No store bought gifts to open, but there'll be Christmas just the same" ... Kenny Rogers ... 'Kentucky Homemade Christmas'

[ocnblu]

Hopes of widespread RWD from GM have recently been dashed, I'm afraid, by our dumbass politicians in Washington, D.C. CAFE certainly sanitizes any enthusiasm I had for GM's future, and the industry in general.

[Drew Dowdell]

I don't understand why, if the Lacross is more luxurious, more beautiful, better in every way than the ES330, it can't be "mind-boggling" if it is also FWD.... which is what the target market wants.....

[regfootball]

truth is, buicks should have AWD optional. passat does, fusion does. FWD bias is ok for buick i think, but it really should have awd optional.

[Drew Dowdell]

EPII gets AWD

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Hopes of widespread RWD from GM have recently been dashed, I'm afraid, by our dumbass politicians in Washington, D.C. CAFE certainly sanitizes any enthusiasm I had for GM's future, and the industry in general.

I certainly hope not... And I don't understand why anyone at GM would be in that frame of mind. RWD doee not automatically equal poor fuel economy.

I think we've just been conditioned to think that way over the years.

Oh well, no RWD = no GM car in my garage. I've done the FWD thing for long enough now.

[Paolino]

I don't understand why, if the Lacross is more luxurious, more beautiful, better in every way than the ES330, it can't be "mind-boggling" if it is also FWD.... which is what the target market wants.....

EPII gets AWD

Yes yes on both accounts... and I think AWD optional will really give it an edge over competition. If the benchmark is the ES350, then AWD is an option the ES doesn't have.

I'm going to say this, and I haven't said it in a long time: I want real wood.

I know, I know, don't hold my breath since the Lucerne, Enclave, and even some Cadillacs don't have real wood.

[knightfan26917]

I certainly hope not... And I don't understand why anyone at GM would be in that frame of mind. RWD doee not automatically equal poor fuel economy.

I think we've just been conditioned to think that way over the years.

Oh well, no RWD = no GM car in my garage. I've done the FWD thing for long enough now.

*nods*

Same here.

And, Oldsmoboi, I didn't say it couldn't be mind-boggling ... all I noted was that if it is FWD it will be interesting to see what IS considered mind-boggling....

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.lego.HO.model.MCs.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"Nothing can take the place of being there" ... Marvin Gaye ... 'Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing'

[Camino LS6]

I think Buick is the only place a large FWD sedan belongs in the GM lineup.

[frogger]

I've always thought "mind bloggler" would be a negative way to describe something but I guess not!

[VenSeattle]

I think Buick is the only place a large FWD sedan belongs in the GM lineup.

I think GM is in the process of changing that perception. $25k LeSabre days are over.

[Camino LS6]

I think GM is in the process of changing that perception. $25k LeSabre days are over.

The pricing isn't the issue, it is the whole "soft-luxury" approach. That's all that large FWD cars are good for in my view.

[VenSeattle]

The pricing isn't the issue, it is the whole "soft-luxury" approach. That's all that large FWD cars are good for in my view.

A large FWD Buick should replace the DTS' current position. It should not compete with Avalon.

However, Buick will not be getting a DTS replacement since the Lucerne will be going to Zeta. The LaCrosse will be moving to near-luxury territory (whether midsized or large... more than likely midsized.)

For the Avalon, Maxima, Accord market... A Chevrolet Large sedan would be the appropriate competitor. These are all premium mainstream/mass market sedans. Very appropriate for a flagship Chevrolet; Very unappropriate for a near luxury/mid-luxury brand like Buick.

[Camino LS6]

A large FWD Buick should replace the DTS' current position. It should not compete with Avalon.

However, Buick will not be getting a DTS replacement since the Lucerne will be going to Zeta. The LaCrosse will be moving to near-luxury territory (whether midsized or large... more than likely midsized.)

For the Avalon, Maxima, Accord market... A Chevrolet Large sedan would be the appropriate competitor. These are all premium mainstream/mass market sedans. Very appropriate for a flagship Chevrolet; Very unappropriate for a near luxury/mid-luxury brand like Buick.

I don't see much hope of agreement on this, the notion that any FWD sedan could be a flagship for Chevy turns my stomach.

[turbo200]

I don't see much hope of agreement on this, the notion that any FWD sedan could be a flagship for Chevy turns my stomach.

I guess it's best put like this: does the current Impala even updated and placed on a modern FWD platform really embody anything classic and sporty that Chevrolet has stood for? Gasoline issues aside, we need our cars to stand for something, and the current Malibu seems to emphasize practical and elegant sport.....a RWD luxury sedan above that for the masses would complement that.

[Camino LS6]

I guess it's best put like this: does the current Impala even updated and placed on a modern FWD platform really embody anything classic and sporty that Chevrolet has stood for? Gasoline issues aside, we need our cars to stand for something, and the current Malibu seems to emphasize practical and elegant sport.....a RWD luxury sedan above that for the masses would complement that.

Precisely!

[cire]

I certainly hope it lives up to the hype. It would be great for a domestic U.S. brand to offer a desirable, midsize, near luxury front wheel drive competitor to the Lexus ES and Acura TL. If the Enclave is any indication, then this car should be a looker.

I know I said this quite a few times before, but I'm going to say it again. I would love to see Buick get a compact front wheel drive sedan on a shortened Epsilon platform to seriously compete with the Acura TSX. It could share its platform (but no styling) with a Saab product. I know it's just wishful thinking, but wouldn't it be sweet.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I think Buick is the only place a large FWD sedan belongs in the GM lineup.

[VenSeattle]

I don't see much hope of agreement on this, the notion that any FWD sedan could be a flagship for Chevy turns my stomach.

Like it has been for the past 10 years? or like it is at almost all of Chevrolet's competitors? Different does not mean successful... but does mean expensive. Most of Chevrolet's competitors use the same platform to produce two unique vehicles to attract different type of buyers. You're looking for the Malibu and Impala to use different platforms for mainstream vehicles. A more sensible and focused FWD premium Impala would be appealing to a large market audience if executed well. It would probably sell at the same volume or greater since there is an established market.

I always felt that LeSabre's market in the 1990s belonged under Chevrolet. Chevrolet should have had the "best-selling" large sedan in America, not Buick. It's Chevrolet's job to take on Toyota, not Buick. It's Chevrolet's job to take on Ford, not Buick. It's Chevrolet's job to take on Hyundai, not Buick. Now Chevrolet can finally take care of its own market segments and quit requiring assistance from the other brands to pick up the slack.

As for LaCrosse's job, I believe the NG LaCrosse will remain an alternative to other vehicles in this price class but will not be marketed as a direct competitor to the Avalon, Taurus, or Azera. It will be targeting near-luxury vehicles and more image conscious buyers.

[Drew Dowdell]

I guess it's best put like this: does the current Impala even updated and placed on a modern FWD platform really embody anything classic and sporty that Chevrolet has stood for? Gasoline issues aside, we need our cars to stand for something, and the current Malibu seems to emphasize practical and elegant sport.....a RWD luxury sedan above that for the masses would complement that.

I think the point is this: Does anyone outside of C&G care about what Chevrolet has stood for?

The average american has the attention span of a meth-head Chihuahua on espresso. Just ask Chrysler how that RWD 300 is doin....

[turbo200]

I think the point is this: Does anyone outside of C&G care about what Chevrolet has stood for?

The average american has the attention span of a meth-head Chihuahua on espresso. Just ask Chrysler how that RWD 300 is doin....

images can be redone and remade. chevy is not as far in the poop machine as some may think. trucks, corvette, and SUVs prop up the image of America's mainstream brand. it's just in cars where Chevy fails to be relevant. I just can't picture a large FWD sedan, maybe around the size as current Taurus, as being a relevant car. Families that need space and utility are increasingly choosing crossovers over this type of car. The large sedan has pretty much proven dead, except when it comes to luxury. Luxury and coolness of a sedan can defy it all. I think Chrysler's attempt has shown what a successful concept, the "mini-Bentley", a distinct sedan sets itself apart that fashions itself a luxury car while reamining in the reach of average Americans, has proven a successful formula. All Chevy has to do is find a formula for itself.

And classic Chevys do stand for something. They're still remembered, still recognized, and acknowledged as classy and elegant family cars. Chevy must recapture that magic. It got one step closer with Malibu. Malibu is right for its class, but I think something different is needed in the premium sedan category, for the masses. I think a variety of styles, with the right basic shape, similar to what Holden does with Commodore, would work for Chevy.

[ocnblu]

Agreed, turbo.

[enzl]

Well. whether it's the new LaCrosse or the Impala you're talking about, GM's gotta make them winners.

To me, the SUV/CUV's have overtaken the large family sedan as the default choice in families...it would make sense to go RWD for the Impy so that a premium can be charged and a market exploited...the last thing Chevy needs is a G-body derivative.

I'm not sure the LaCrosse can make waves as a cut-rate ES competitor, but I guess I'm going to find out....hopefully, the Ep II chassis is up to the challenge of spawning a variety of internationally saleable products.

In either case, the styling must be spot on target and the quality demonstrably excellent. Then at least the products have a chance.

[Camino LS6]

Well. whether it's the new LaCrosse or the Impala you're talking about, GM's gotta make them winners.

To me, the SUV/CUV's have overtaken the large family sedan as the default choice in families...it would make sense to go RWD for the Impy so that a premium can be charged and a market exploited...the last thing Chevy needs is a G-body derivative.

I'm not sure the LaCrosse can make waves as a cut-rate ES competitor, but I guess I'm going to find out....hopefully, the Ep II chassis is up to the challenge of spawning a variety of internationally saleable products.

In either case, the styling must be spot on target and the quality demonstrably excellent. Then at least the products have a chance.

For once, we completely agree.

[Paolino]

Well. whether it's the new LaCrosse or the Impala you're talking about, GM's gotta make them winners.

To me, the SUV/CUV's have overtaken the large family sedan as the default choice in families...it would make sense to go RWD for the Impy so that a premium can be charged and a market exploited...the last thing Chevy needs is a G-body derivative.

I'm not sure the LaCrosse can make waves as a cut-rate ES competitor, but I guess I'm going to find out....hopefully, the Ep II chassis is up to the challenge of spawning a variety of internationally saleable products.

In either case, the styling must be spot on target and the quality demonstrably excellent. Then at least the products have a chance.

[Cananopie]

all this over a vague statement and a car covered in garbage bags.

Let's give the LaCrosse a chance, even if it is FWD, if the styling, quality, and power is there inside and out then it won't matter.

Even the current LaCrosse made it to #8 on Car and Drivers fastest sports sedans, and I expect the replacement to largely overshadow it in all aspects. If Lutz is that excited about it then it will definitely turn heads and be a positive aspect for Buick ultimately. To me the current LaCrosse was sort of a downgrade from the last gen Regal in many ways. I'm hoping the next gen LaCrosse overshadows both current LaCrosse and last gen Regal in all aspects. It's not the FWD thats holding off sales so much as the styling.

[knightfan26917]

And classic Chevys do stand for something. They're still remembered, still recognized, and acknowledged as classy and elegant family cars. Chevy must recapture that magic. It got one step closer with Malibu.

...And they'd get one step closer with that FWD car if they renamed it something else, instead of doing like they've done since the mid-1980s with the Toyota Nova and slapping classic Ch#$r%*et names on cars that don't have that magic ... which drives some enthusiasts (woops, wait, sorry, ONLY me) absolutely crazy.

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.lego.HO.model.MCs.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"Never compromise what's right" ... Aaron Tippin ... 'You've Got To Stand For Something (Or You'll Fall For Anything)'

[The O.C.]

It's on Epsilon II and it's an ES330 competitor.

no, no RWD

ES350....

And I think Buick has way more potential than to chase the ES for gawd's sake......

[The O.C.]

Hopes of widespread RWD from GM have recently been dashed, I'm afraid, by our dumbass politicians in Washington, D.C. CAFE certainly sanitizes any enthusiasm I had for GM's future, and the industry in general.

Basically....RWD versus FWD has NOTHING to do with fuel economy.......keeping in mind today's technology in regards to powertrain management.

(um.....my Corvette with 400hp got better average fuel economy than my '03 Mazda6 V6 FWD midsize sedan...????........22mpg average versus 20mpg for the Mazda.)

[Drew Dowdell]

ES350....

And I think Buick has way more potential than to chase the ES for gawd's sake......

tanx.....

see what happens when you use alpha-numerics rather than actual names?

What do you think Buick should be chasing in this market?

[thegriffon]

Umm, that's why you use alphanumerics—so people use the brand name rather than the model name they can't remember.

[Drew Dowdell]

Umm, that's why you use alphanumerics—so people use the brand name rather than the model name they can't remember.

How many people do you think remember the name of the mid-sized entry from Buick, Olds, or Pontiac in 1989?

How many people do you think remember the name of the mid-sized entry from Lexus, Mercedes, or Infiniti in 1989?

[Sixty8panther]

Hopes of widespread RWD from GM have recently been dashed, I'm afraid, by our dumbass politicians in Washington, D.C. CAFE certainly sanitizes any enthusiasm I had for GM's future, and the industry in general.

Yup. That's it right there....

The first gen. LaCrosse was boring as hell, so that combined with FWD made it worthless.

The new Super grille is a vast improvement though, the W-body needs to die like five

years ago, the B-body needs to be resurected!

[thegriffon]

How many people do you think remember the name of the mid-sized entry from Buick, Olds, or Pontiac in 1989?

Less than you think. Tell people you have an '89 Cutlass Supreme and 95% would not know it was an Oldsmobile etc.. Most would think "I've never heard of a Cutlass car company."

How many people do you think remember the name of the mid-sized entry from Lexus, Mercedes, or Infiniti in 1989?

As far as they're concerned you don't have to. All they want people to hear is that "I have an '89 Mercedes/Lexus/Infiniti, and it's a beautiful car." What do they care if anybody remembers the ES300, the I30 or the 300E or not? It's no help at all because with few exceptions even if the name is the same it's not the same car. They want people to remember Mercedes is a great luxury car company, not that the 500 SL was a great car. After all, they're not selling used cars (at least not that old). The models change, the company remains the same.

[Drew Dowdell]

Less than you think. Tell people you have an '89 Cutlass Supreme and 95% would not know it was an Oldsmobile etc.. Most would think "I've never heard of a Cutlass car company."

As far as they're concerned you don't have to. All they want people to hear is that "I have an '89 Mercedes/Lexus/Infiniti, and it's a beautiful car." What do they care if anybody remembers the ES300, the I30 or the 300E or not? It's no help at all because with few exceptions even if the name is the same it's not the same car. They want people to remember Mercedes is a great luxury car company, not that the 500 SL was a great car. After all, they're not selling used cars (at least not that old). The models change, the company remains the same.

Tell people you have a Seville, Eldorado, Deville, Escalade, Continental, Town Car, Navigator.... people know you're driving a luxury car. And I disagree about the name Cutlass, I owned a convertible. When discussing my car people would say "They made a convertible one of those? I bet that was a sweet ride. My mom had a Cutlass years ago... she drove it till 200k miles then traded it in on a Toyota"

These days, tell someone you drive a 300.... Is that the new Ford that took over for the Taurus? Or that new Bentley looking thing from Chrysler... No I think it's a Mercedes. Could be a Lexus.... maybe BMW... no those all end with "i".

I don't think you're giving enough credit to the names of yore..... then again, neither do the car companies.

[thegriffon]

Again you're missing the point. Unless you are talking to another BMW owner, you never say "I have a 330", you say "I have a BMW" or "… BMW 330i". It should be enough to say "BMW", or "Mercedes", or "Cadillac" for people to know you have a sweet ride. Car companies don't value the names you mention because they know they were systematically (and unintentionally) devalued by discount pricing, design, material and construction over many decades. Many have negative value. Even now GM can't sell a Grand Prix for as much as a comparable G6. Eventually people will forget the bad cars and the old name may have a chance of being revived with the advancing years casting a rosy glow (after all even crappy Toyopet Crowns are making a comeback).

Already there are some names that could make a successful comeback:

Chevelle

Nova (both thanks mostly to the SS models)

Ventura

Tempest

Falcon

Fairlane

Supra

Electra

Monza

Nomad

Riviera

Tell people you have a Continental and they'll think you have a Bentley (sweet). Tell them it's a Lincoln and most will say "Oh, ahh, ok (Gee, that's too bad)." (Oh, I'm sure you know people who like Lincoln Continentals, but unfortunately outside your circle of friends there aren't many who would touch one for fear the doors will fall off. Silly perhaps but that's how it goes.)

In a few years, and with a successful, expensive DT7 to persuade people that Cadillac is a true luxury (rather than merely premium) sedan, the Eldorado may even make a comeback (at '50s rather than '90s prices [adjusted for inflation]). I think that even now they could make a success of personalized Fleetwood-Cadillacs, a la Mulliner Bentleys (but not a Cadillac Fleetwood).

[Drew Dowdell]

Is it the name that is bad.... or the car?

Odyssey

Altima

Malibu

Tundra

all were also-rans, but look at them now.

[The O.C.]

tanx.....

see what happens when you use alpha-numerics rather than actual names?

What do you think Buick should be chasing in this market?

I think a RWD Park Avenue (like the China version) would be a great car to go up against Lexus. The ES350 just doesn't seem that aspirational to me. The GS and LS are though. Even the IS is more aspirational to most people leaving the ES to soak up all the traditional Buick-type buyers.

[knightfan26917]

Already there are some names that could make a successful comeback:

Chevelle

Nova (both thanks mostly to the SS models)

Hmmm...

Except, the Nova already made a comeback ... in the mid-1980s with the Toyota Nova/Ch#$r%*et Corolla ... and that didn't last that long. I'm not sure I'd call it a success, but maybe it was.... That car was eventually renamed as part of the Geo line ... Geo Prizm.

As for the Chevelle ... I would think for that to be successful it would need to be a RWD car. I'd be willing to bet you'd hear a LOT more enthusiasts speak up about that being FWD....no?

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve&pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"Nobody likes to be let down" ... Jack Johnson ... 'Flake'

[Drew Dowdell]

I think a RWD Park Avenue (like the China version) would be a great car to go up against Lexus. The ES350 just doesn't seem that aspirational to me. The GS and LS are though. Even the IS is more aspirational to most people leaving the ES to soak up all the traditional Buick-type buyers.

Oh... see, I want Buick to soak up the Buick-type buyers. That's what I picture the LaCrosse II existing for. The ES isn't aspirational to you and I because we know it's just a Camry De Lux. However Regina Realestateagent sees the L on the hood so it's aspirational for her. The RWD Zeta Park Ave should go up against the LS, and the Enclave is already putting the hurt on the RX. The IS, GS, SC and LX are covered by Cadillac.

[cire]

Is it the name that is bad.... or the car?

Odyssey

Altima

Malibu

Tundra

all were also-rans, but look at them now.

I totally agree. It's not the name that's good or bad, it's the execution of the product. The first three names mentioned above (Odyssey, Altima, and Malibu) have all made successful transitions form underachievers to competitive players in their respectitive segments. Who would have thought that the Malibu name could have transcended its former image of dowdy, rental fleet queen that was created by the last two generations of car that carried this historic name? Now the car conjures up images of an attractive, well built, desirable car. GM accomplished this feat by designing/engineering a class competitive product and marketing the *@#! out of it.

However, the jury is still out on the Tundra. Given its short, problem-plagued performance history, I wouldn't exactly label it a successful transition.

One model name in Chevy's lineup that I wish would be replaced with a historic name when the next generation is produced is Cobalt. This model name is dull and lifeless. I hope the next generation receives a great design (like the Malibu) and an exciting name to match.

[Paolino]

Oh... see, I want Buick to soak up the Buick-type buyers. That's what I picture the LaCrosse II existing for. The ES isn't aspirational to you and I because we know it's just a Camry De Lux. However Regina Realestateagent sees the L on the hood so it's aspirational for her. The RWD Zeta Park Ave should go up against the LS, and the Enclave is already putting the hurt on the RX. The IS, GS, SC and LX are covered by Cadillac.

I totally don't see the RWD Zeta PA competing with the LS. Not at all. It'd have to be mind-blowingly beautiful, packed with features and available options, etc. Not to mention the critics will already poo poo GMs "only 6-speed" transmission.

[Drew Dowdell]

I totally don't see the RWD Zeta PA competing with the LS. Not at all. It'd have to be mind-blowingly beautiful, packed with features and available options, etc. Not to mention the critics will already poo poo GMs "only 6-speed" transmission.

Critics will poopoo the lack of a blue and white rondel most of all.

Being more beautiful than the LS shouldn't be terribly difficult, that's kinda like being more beautiful than Kathy Bates... big, stern looking, handsome for what she is, but still no Kathrine Zeta Jones.

The Park Ave probably won't park itself, but for the most part I could see it competing in technology and comforts while still being less money. If you could buy a 360hp Buick Park Ave with all the goodies except self park and it had this interior for $15k less than an LS, wouldn't you?

Only the brand snobs wouldn't.

[VenSeattle]

I totally don't see the RWD Zeta PA competing with the LS. Not at all. It'd have to be mind-blowingly beautiful, packed with features and available options, etc. Not to mention the critics will already poo poo GMs "only 6-speed" transmission.

Would you actually compare the last gen LS (or any previous gen-LS) to the new one? The new LS is actually in a completely different segment than the old one. It's Lexus' first large sedan to compete directly against 7-series, A8s, S-Classes, etc. The prev-gen LSs were actually in a segment below, and their MSRPs showed it.

I would picture the Park Avenue (although bigger than prev-gen LSs) fitting quite nicely in the segment formerly dominated by the Infiniti Q45, Lexus LS, budget buy S430's, etc.

Oldsmoboi's segregation of Lexus is a perfect illustration to why GM needs more than one Luxury brand. It would compromise Cadillac's image, prestige, and vision to attempt covering all segments in the near/mid-luxury territory. Leave ultra-luxury and exotics exclusive to the Cadillac Crest but use SAAB, HUMMER, Buick, and Cadillac to "hone in" and target the various (and still growing) near/mid-luxury markets. Some segments (like near luxury sedans) are so polar-opposites depending on the offering, that having multiple entries wouldn't really be considered overlap: (Saab 9-5, Cadillac CTS, Buick LaCrosse 2.0 for example.)