TOYOTA=LIARS

[regfootball]

for one, the prius not making near the mpg it advertises. two, for toyota claiming the Camry to make about 20hp more than the actual SAE certified test showed it made. post your blatant toyota lies here. Toyota=mislead folks intentionally Edited October 17, 2005 by regfootball

[Nick]

As far as the prius goes...I drove a prius in town and I was heavy on the pedal and I still averaged around 46 mpg...my friend's aunt is a toyota salesperson and she owns one...I was talking to her about it and she let me drive it...she was saying the biggest reason a lot of people don't get the right mpg figures is when the cars first come to the states there is a certain calibration they need to have done to them (which can be changed through the OBC)...another reason (which I thought was lame, but whatever) is you have to be taught how to drive the prius the right way...you can't drive it like a normal car...but I drove it normally and like i said, I was pulling off 46mpg average through town...

[pow]

Hey, at least they converted all their horsepower figures in accordance to the new SAE guidelines. GM only changed the ones to their favor, I believe. But, yeah, 210 to 190 hp is a huge difference.

[Flybrian]

Hey, at least they converted all their horsepower figures in accordance to the new SAE guidelines. GM only changed the ones to their favor, I believe. But, yeah, 210 to 190 hp is a huge difference.

[post="29865"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No, don't try that. They're changing them. I believe they're letting older models run out on the old standards just as Nissan and a few others are doing and intro'ing new cars on the new SAE ratings.

As far as a Toyota lie, I can point out one Polish_Kris shared about the lower hp ratings as given by a Toyota representative - that Toyota is lowering horsepower in light of increased fuel prices, which is 100% BS on part of the rep, but not necessarily Toyota as a whole.

[regfootball]

No, don't try that. They're changing them. I believe they're letting older models run out on the old standards just as Nissan and a few others are doing and intro'ing new cars on the new SAE ratings.

As far as a Toyota lie, I can point out one Polish_Kris shared about the lower hp ratings as given by a Toyota representative - that Toyota is lowering horsepower in light of increased fuel prices, which is 100% BS on part of the rep, but not necessarily Toyota as a whole.

[post="29866"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

they will twist the story to whatever fits them, in other words?

[regfootball]

5 horsepower, I can live with, but like 20? NO WAY. The Accord and TL had the same thing going on too didn't they?

[regfootball]

I heard the Thompson Twins were singing Toyota's new theme song these days.... LIES LIES LIES, YEAH!!!!!!!!!!! (repeat chorus x2)

[Guest Josh]

Their latest commercial pisses me off. "If you think everybody is driving a Toyota lately.......you're right."

[Flybrian]

5 horsepower, I can live with, but like 20?  NO WAY.  The Accord and TL had the same thing going on too didn't they?

[post="29875"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Again, the drop/increase is not a result of actual power being lost, just the figure being changed. The impact comes when a non-standard measurement is used to make a car look more powerful than one measured with the standard. For example, a 268-hp Avalon isn't as 'powerful' as the 280-hp Avalon to the general public.

Its like saying telling a Canadian you paid $35,000 for a CTS without specifying it was American dollars.

BTW, Reg, are you like huffing aerosols tonight?

[pow]

No, don't try that. They're changing them. I believe they're letting older models run out on the old standards just as Nissan and a few others are doing and intro'ing new cars on the new SAE ratings.

[post="29866"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

All manufacturers are required to abide by the new SAE standards for new or redesigned engines. Honda and Toyota, on the other hand, retested all their engines, old or new.

(Eww, I sound like an import {insert expletive here}.)

[regfootball]

Their latest commercial pisses me off.

"If you think everybody is driving a Toyota lately.......you're right."

[post="29879"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

that kind of rampant pomposity is what led me to start this thread........its time to expose Toyota for what it is......

that new Civic commercial, that new one, really is pompous also. Edited October 17, 2005 by regfootball

[Cory Wolfe]

How about their new commercial for their hybrids? :rolleyes:

[regfootball]

Again, the drop/increase is not a result of actual power being lost, just the figure being changed. The impact comes when a non-standard measurement is used to make a car look more powerful than one measured with the standard. For example, a 268-hp Avalon isn't as 'powerful' as the 280-hp Avalon to the general public.

Its like saying telling a Canadian you paid $35,000 for a CTS without specifying it was American dollars.

BTW, Reg, are you like huffing aerosols tonight?

[post="29883"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

funny you mention that, i was cleaning our master bath about an hour ago and it has really piss poor ventilation, even with the exhaust fan on. My eyes are still burning from the windex and bath cleaner fumes. Maybe I got high, too.

I dunno, I just HATE toyota lately, but what sends me over the edge is their pretentious advertising, and their manipulation of media and data. I also hate the mindless sheep that fork over huge coin to the boring toyotas of the world, without driving anything else in comparison (besides a Honda or Subaru).

I am neither hugely for or against GM, so I am not biased and simply call them as I see em. This holier than thou relentless beating us into thinking they are Godx2 is getting OVERBOARD. I am sensing a backlash someday, but when? Edited October 17, 2005 by regfootball

[Flybrian]

I dunno, I just HATE toyota lately, but what sends me over the edge is their pretentious advertising, and their manipulation of media and data.

[post="29891"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That, and you've been huffing aerosols.

Toyota's trying to get you, man. Look outside right now. I bet there's a black Avalon in your driveway. Quick!

[pow]

5 horsepower, I can live with, but like 20?  NO WAY.  The Accord and TL had the same thing going on too didn't they?

[post="29875"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Accord V6 (Odyssey and Pilot, too) horsepower went from 240 to 244, while the Accord I4 (Element and CR-V, too) horsepower went from 160 to 156. TL went from 270 to 258.

Edit: Nevermind, the Accord I4 got a new engine for '06. It's now 166 horsepower. The Element and CR-V continue with the old engine. Edited October 17, 2005 by empowah

[regfootball]

That, and you've been huffing aerosols.

Toyota's trying to get you, man. Look outside right now. I bet there's a black Avalon in your driveway. Quick!

[post="29892"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Jeeses, I musta traded my GALANT GTS for it!

[Guest Josh]

All manufacturers are required to abide by the new SAE standards for new or redesigned engines. Honda and Toyota, on the other hand, retested all their engines, old or new.

[post="29884"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No company is required to test under the SAW standards. However, most have chose to. Toyota and the rest of the Asians have only tested engines on a first come, first serve basis. Meaning, new motors. Their older engines powering cars now, they've left unscaved.

[pow]

No company is required to test under the SAW standards. However, most have chose to. Toyota and the rest of the Asians have only tested engines on a first come, first serve basis. Meaning, new motors. Their older engines powering cars now, they've left unscaved.

[post="29898"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No, the lame-duck engines were retested, thus the drop in horsepower.

[daves87rs]

Their latest commercial pisses me off.

"If you think everybody is driving a Toyota lately.......you're right."

[post="29879"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yeah. I saw that too, and it annoyed the heck out of me.

Then I though, no I don't. Unless I worked at the dealership..... :lol:

[Guest Josh]

No, the lame-duck engines were retested, thus the drop in horsepower.

[post="29901"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If I recall correctly there was a post here on C&G quoting Toyota that their current engines would not be retested, but future powertrains would be.

[pow]

I dunno, I just HATE toyota lately, but what sends me over the edge is their pretentious advertising, and their manipulation of media and data.  I also hate the mindless sheep that fork over huge coin to the boring toyotas of the world, without driving anything else in comparison (besides a Honda ro Subaru).

I am neither hugely for or against GM, so I am not biased and simply call them as I see em.  This holier than thou relentless beating us into thinking they are Godx2 is getting OVERBOARD.  I am sensing a backlash someday, but when?

[post="29891"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I've been, too, primarily because single Prius drivers are hogging up our carpool lanes. Every time I see a yellow HOV sticker I get upset.

[daves87rs]

How about their new commercial for their hybrids? :rolleyes:

[post="29888"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

yeah, that one is pretty bad ...

[daves87rs]

As far as the prius goes...I drove a prius in town and I was heavy on the pedal and I still averaged around 46 mpg...my friend's aunt is a toyota salesperson and she owns one...I was talking to her about it and she let me drive it...she was saying the biggest reason a lot of people don't get the right mpg figures is when the cars first come to the states there is a certain calibration they need to have done to them (which can be changed through the OBC)...another reason (which I thought was lame, but whatever) is you have to be taught how to drive the prius the right way...you can't drive it like a normal car...but I drove it normally and like i said, I was pulling off 46mpg average through town...

[post="29861"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

that's what I heard too..A co-worker' dad has one...

I think his dad put it best "This would have been fine,had this thing not cost so
much."

[regfootball]

that's what I heard too..A co-worker' dad has one...

I think his dad put it best "This would have been fine,had this thing not cost so
much."

[post="29915"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

most folks would be better off pocketing the 10 grand and getting a base 4 cylinder malibu, which can often top 35mpg from what I've heard in multiple sources.

[regfootball]

people are so desperate these days to 'make a statement' or 'be a part of something revolutionary' or 'in with the right crowd'. Its like people will feel unloved or will descend to loser status if they don't buy the right car. And Toyota is appealing to all of our human insecurities in a masterful way. Yes, I know their cars don't break down a hellofalot, but there are more reaons than that now for why everyone drinks their coolaid. Maybe I am more upset about how very few of our citizens in the USA today can think of themselves anymore in light of all this image consciousness and relentless bombardment of marketing and half baked media and journalism at every turn in our lives. Edited October 17, 2005 by regfootball

[mustang84]

people are so desperate these days to 'make a statement' or 'be a part of something revolutionary' or 'in with the right crowd'.  Its like people will feel unloved or will descend to loser status if they don't buy the right car.

And Toyota is appealing to all of our human insecurities in a masterful way.  Yes, I know their cars don't break down a hellofalot, but there are more reaons than that now for why everyone drinks their coolaid.

Maybe I am more upset about how very few of our citizens in the USA today can think of themselves anymore in light of all this image consciousness and relentless bombardment of marketing and half baked media and journalism at every turn in our lives.

[post="29922"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

My thoughts exactly. Toyota plays with emotions...just look at their advertising "What if the air was clean again? What if the sky was bluer...blah, blah, blah..."

Pass the barf bag, please...I don't know how much more I can take.

So, while they make these feel-good magazine ads and TV jingles, they're ramping up production for the biggest Tundra yet. Where are all the greenies over that? What about the whale of an SUV known as Sequoia? I followed one of those today...it's gigantic!

In real-life, I can't stand pretentious people...and Toyota is the most pretentious of all the automakers. I wouldn't mind them so much if they didn't have this nose-in-the-air attitude. Toyota's PR wizards have effectively taken mediocre, reliable cars and made them out to be the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Too bad that pot is full of fool's gold.

[BrewSwillis]

"We are going to raise our prices to help out the American auto makers" "no we're not"

[Drew Dowdell]

for one, the prius not making near the mpg it advertises.

[post="29856"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Not the I am a Toyota defender, but Toyota is REQUIRED to post the mileage numbers that the EPA determines. They have no choice.

[BrewSwillis]

Not the I am a Toyota defender, but Toyota is REQUIRED to post the mileage numbers that the EPA determines. They have no choice.

[post="30074"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

They do have a choice wether or not to poster it all over the place though!

[evok]

for one, the prius not making near the mpg it advertises.

two, for toyota claiming the Camry to make about 20hp more than the actual SAE certified test showed it made.

post your blatant toyota lies here.

Toyota=mislead folks intentionally

[post="29856"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

#1 Blame your government for the EPA test certification. The US government defines the test.

#2 Prior there was no agreed upon the standard.

Your post are as misleading as to what you want others to believe about your OPINION on Toyota.

Ignorance is endless. Edited October 17, 2005 by evok

[Robert Hall]

yeah, that one is pretty bad ...

[post="29911"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Toyota's trying to save the world.. :) Give peace a chance! Drive a Prius! Shop at Whole Foods! Wear Birkenstocks! Eat more tofu! :)

[Robert Hall]

My thoughts exactly.  Toyota plays with emotions...just look at their advertising "What if the air was clean again?  What if the sky was bluer...blah, blah, blah..."

Pass the barf bag, please...I don't know how much more I can take.

So, while they make these feel-good magazine ads and TV jingles, they're ramping up production for the biggest Tundra yet.  Where are all the greenies over that?  What about the whale of an SUV known as Sequoia?  I followed one of those today...it's gigantic!

True, the Sequia is a biggie, but GM has bigger ones and they build a lot more of them...

[Drew Dowdell]

They do have a choice wether or not to poster it all over the place though!

[post="30077"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

What do you want them to do? Advertise "The EPA test of 60mpg for the Prius is wrong, it's really 45mpg."

[Drew Dowdell]

True, the Sequia is a biggie, but GM has bigger ones and they build a lot more of them...

[post="30094"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And we're glad for that. Because right now if it weren't for the biggie GM SUVs there probably wouldn't be a GM.

The Sequoia is a dirtier polluter and a bigger fuel drinker then the GMs.

[evok]

What do you want them to do? Advertise "The EPA test of 60mpg for the Prius is wrong, it's really 45mpg."

[post="30099"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

When the Prius actually does get 60 hwy and 51 city in the EPA test cycle.

There is no difference to advertising the 5 star in the governments NCAP or Insurance Institute's crash test, when they might not truly represent the real world either.

[BrewSwillis]

What do you want them to do? Advertise "The EPA test of 60mpg for the Prius is wrong, it's really 45mpg."

[post="30099"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well they need to prepare for a backlash then.....and the media should be hitting them hard.......which they are/will not.

It's obvious that the EPA tests were not designed for testing hybrid technology. The manufacturer should exercise some constraint when advertising unachieveable MPG figures.

It's funny when you tell a Toyota humper that the Prius only gets 42 MPG in real world reviews.......then they tell you "yeah, but it pollutes less". :rolleyes:

[Robert Hall]

And we're glad for that. Because right now if it weren't for the biggie GM SUVs there probably wouldn't be a GM.

The Sequoia is a dirtier polluter and a bigger fuel drinker then the GMs.

That I find hard to believe... do you have data to back up that claim? Edited October 17, 2005 by moltar

[Variance]

It's obvious that the EPA tests were not designed for testing hybrid technology.  The manufacturer should exercise some constraint when advertising unachieveable MPG figures.

Toyota actually talks more about the Prius' emissions than the mileage.

It's funny when you tell a Toyota humper that the Prius only gets 42 MPG in real world reviews.......then they tell you "yeah, but it pollutes less".  :rolleyes:

[post="30118"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, it does pollute less and some Prius owners do get better than 42 MPG.

[Robert Hall]

Toyota actually talks more about the Prius' emissions than the mileage.
Well, it does pollute less and some Prius owners do get better than 42 MPG.

Right...I think the 'pollute less' aspect is actually the more important value of hybrid technology than simply better mileage.

[The O.C.]

I've been, too, primarily because single Prius drivers are hogging up our carpool lanes. Every time I see a yellow HOV sticker I get upset.

[post="29908"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yeah....that happens here in L.A. too.....and I think it's complete BULLSHIT.

Now, I'm neither all for hybrids or all against them....I figure if you want to buy a hybrid, then have at it....I could care less.

However, how come the Prius gets to use the car-pool lanes with a single occupant, but the guy in the ULEV gasoline vehicle doesn't? Or what about the guy driving something like a Focus (PLEV, 30-35mpg?) Or what about the guy driving the Jetta TDI that gets 40-45mpg?

Here's the kicker.....they HAVEN'T certified the Escape, Highlander, or RX400h hybrids to be able to use the car-pool lanes as single occupants. So far, only the Prius, Insight, Civic (I believe) can use them....and that's because, according to CALTRANS, they are #1 hybrids and #2 get "over 40mpg."

What about my Effing C6 that's averaging mid-20's with 400hp? That's gotta be even more efficient than a Prius getting mid-40's with as little power as it offers.

[The O.C.]

They do have a choice wether or not to poster it all over the place though!

[post="30077"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh come on BS.....don't act so stupid......

:angry:

If it was your company, you'd do the EXACT SAME THING. Or, if it was GM that had those EPA ratings, you'd WANT them to do the same thing.

Toyota would be STUPID for NOT capitalizing on such an "advantage."

<_<

[Variance]

That I find hard to believe... do you have data to back up that claim?

[post="30119"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It just so happens I'm working on an article concerning the emissions of cars sold in America. The Sequoia is no dirtier than the GM SUVs. According to the EPA:

Sequoia: Air pollutant score: 3 (7 in CA) / Greenhouse gas score: 2

Tahoe: Air polluntant score: 3 / Greenhouse gas score: 2-3 (50 states)

Fuel economy (best - worst):

Sequoia: 15/18 - 15/17

Tahoe: 16/20 - 14/18

[Nick]

I don't see why we have to bash Toyota...it really get's us nowhere...I think it is lame to bash them. They make a good, reliable product which obviously appeal to the America populous. There are no 2 ways around it. They are selling those products and making a good profit, so I say more power to 'em. I don't care for Toyotas myself, but I'll give credit where it is due. Edited October 17, 2005 by Nick

[Robert Hall]

I don't see why we have to bash Toyota...it really get's us nowhere...I think it is lame to bash them. They make a good, reliable product. There are no 2 ways around it. They are selling those products and making a good profit, so I say more power to 'em. I don't care for Toyotas myself, but I'll give credit where it is due.

Exactly...if GM's financials, product execution, reliablity reputation, and results were as solid as Toyota's, everyone on here would be ecstatic...it's just jealosy and xenophobia, I think...

[Drew Dowdell]

I think the difference is with attitude. GM is like. "Yeah, we fucked up, but we've got some great stuff now! Why don't you come on down and take a look?" Toyota is like. "You aren't driving a Toyota already? What is wrong with you? Everyone knows Toyota is the best and loves puppies, clean air, and American jobs"

[BrewSwillis]

Oh come on BS.....don't act so stupid......

:angry:

If it was your company, you'd do the EXACT SAME THING.  Or, if it was GM that had those EPA ratings, you'd WANT them to do the same thing.

Toyota would be STUPID for NOT capitalizing on such an "advantage."

<_<

[post="30140"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It's not being stupid. If I owned a company who built a car that got an average of 42 MPG when I tested it in real world driving, and then I turned it over to the EPA, who in turn got 62 MPG......I would be more than a little hesitant to make all kinds of claims that my little econo-car with the big sticker price is going to actually get you anywhere near 62 MPG.

That is probably why, as someone has mentioned earlier, that most of the new Prius ads are about reduced emmisions, and not about getting 62 MPG. They were actually called on their ridiculous claims, buy the auto journalists (amazingly), and now have backed off.

[prinzSD]

How about their new commercial for their hybrids? :rolleyes:

[post="29888"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Everytime I see that one I want to
:puke:

[prinzSD]

I've been, too, primarily because single Prius drivers are hogging up our carpool lanes. Every time I see a yellow HOV sticker I get upset.

[post="29908"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Tell me about it. The other day some guy in a "Pricus" tried to pull ahead of me instead of letting me merge unto the freeway. I let him get in front of me and then I passed him and moved over to the number 1 lane. Next thing I know he is tailgaitting me. Well, I am sure he got a good look at my lisence which reads V8XLR8S and my frame that says "I send Mustangs to the glue factory". It was that way most of the way until we got closer to San Jose where a commute lane opened up. Guess what? he moved into the commute lane and drove by me and I was stuck in commute traffic for the next ten miles or so. He..he..I guess he got the last laugh...and it almost, I say almost wish I had a hybrid. :unsure:

[prinzSD]

Well they need to prepare for a backlash then.....and the media should be hitting them hard.......which they are/will not.

It's obvious that the EPA tests were not designed for testing hybrid technology.  The manufacturer should exercise some constraint when advertising unachieveable MPG figures.

It's funny when you tell a Toyota humper that the Prius only gets 42 MPG in real world reviews.......then they tell you "yeah, but it pollutes less".  :rolleyes:

[post="30118"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Interesting you bring that up. Prior to purchasing her Prius, my mother in law wanted one because of the fuel economy but when I told her in real world settings she will not get that kind of MPG, she changed her tune and said she wanted one because she liked them despite the fact she had yet to test drive one. Talk about creating your own rationale to justify flawed logic. Sheesh.. Edited October 17, 2005 by prinzSD

[prinzSD]

people are so desperate these days to 'make a statement' or 'be a part of something revolutionary' or 'in with the right crowd'.  Its like people will feel unloved or will descend to loser status if they don't buy the right car.

And Toyota is appealing to all of our human insecurities in a masterful way.  Yes, I know their cars don't break down a hellofalot, but there are more reaons than that now for why everyone drinks their coolaid.

Maybe I am more upset about how very few of our citizens in the USA today can think of themselves anymore in light of all this image consciousness and relentless bombardment of marketing and half baked media and journalism at every turn in our lives.

[post="29922"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Arn't muscle cars aimed at are insecurities as well? That's why my brother in law says I drive Trans Ams to make up for some insecuiry. Nevermind the fact I have been driving F-bodies since 1979.