Edmunds V6 Family Sedan Comparison

[giantshark18]

Full Article

It seems that most agree the Malibu is better then a Camry (except Motor Trend), but it can't seem to win a comparison test.

[Intrepidation]

It seems like a fair comparison overall though...the Malibu does lack features like BlueTooth, NAV system, Dual Zone Climate Control, and a rear armrest...my car had that as an option for Pete's sake. The steering and tranny complaints aren't limited to edmunds either. Still it beat the Camry and that in itself is an achievement. If GM could fix some of the shortcomings I bet it could come in first.

[Drew Dowdell]

I really can't complain about this review... though I do think it's silly to get your panties in a twist over something like keyless ignition in a midsized family sedan without sporting ambitions.

[Dsuupr]

At this time, no matter how great the Malibu is, no magazine will want to rate it first.

[regfootball]

progress, the chevy is included with the previously untouchables.......

this alone is progress........

[siegen]

its rivals this time around include the Nissan Altima, wholly redesigned in 2007, and all-new 2008 versions of the Chevrolet Malibu and Honda Accord.

I don't think "wholly" is the best term to use for the Altima MMC (err I mean FMC).

[Intrepidation]

progress, the chevy is included with the previously untouchables.......

this alone is progress........

Exactly, and it beat the Camry, so there is definitely progress.

[Z-06]

Altima does not deserve the second place.

As Siegen mentioned, it is not wholly designed. As a matter of fact it is hard to recognize it from a old one at a distace. Same cannot be said about the other three.

[turbo200]

I disagree, I think the Altima as a whole is very sophisticated looking package. lines up front are instantly recognizable as 350Z new Nissan look, and are the best interpretation of the Nissan theme [which I am not a fan of at all, but on 350Z and Altima it does work better and best]. At the rear it continues that sophisticated and contemporary look. The car screams something that is unique and trying hard to be different, all the while saying something about Nissan, athletic.

What this comparison really proves is that the cars in this class are getting to a level of class and sophistication that means everyone can find something to love

[bcs296]

No rear armrest/dual zone climate control is really a crime. I can understand no Bluetooth and MAYBE no real navigation system, but not having such simple things like a fold down armrest and dual zone HVAC is a bit ridiculous.

Additionally, there's no PRNDL display in the instrument cluster.

Also a stupid move on GM's part.

Edited December 10, 2007 by bcs296

[Northstar]

If the Malibu had as many features as the other cars, it likely would have come in 1st or second (look at the scoring explanation). I wonder what the results would be if they were doing $22k 4cyl versions (the bulk of sales)? I would be surprised if the Malibu did not do better in a test like that... none of the cars will have many more features than the others if all are $22-23k. The Malibu wouldn't score so poorly in the features category, in that case.

[gm4life]

Ah well it should have gotten first or second. I am more happy seeing the Camry get last I guess a far cry from what Motor Trend said those idots. (And I get that rag!)

[pow]

If the Malibu had as many features as the other cars, it likely would have come in 1st or second (look at the scoring explanation). I wonder what the results would be if they were doing $22k 4cyl versions (the bulk of sales)? I would be surprised if the Malibu did not do better in a test like that... none of the cars will have many more features than the others if all are $22-23k. The Malibu wouldn't score so poorly in the features category, in that case.

With more features, the price would have gone up, too. Features are worth 20%, price is worth 25%, so the scoring is arguably already in Malibu's favor.

This is one of the best Malibu reviews/comparison I've read so far; there's tons of detail, enough to let the reader come up with his or her own conclusion. My experiences with all four of these cars relate with their's.

Edited December 11, 2007 by empowah

[caddycruiser]

I thought it was dead on, and they clearly acknowledged they all preferred the best combination of sport with their roomy sedan.

The Malibu got exactly the credit it deserves, including the few demerits it also deserves--it looks great, is assembled great, but the lack of features still bugs many (regardless of whether they'd cost more...they should be there), and despite that great assembly and general materials quality...there still are things, such as some center stack bits, and color combos that are different but not everyone loves, that kick it down a notch. Refine a few more interior bits, polish another thing here and there...and then it'll go higher in the rankings. Still a terrific car, and they said that. Just like the last gen Altima, as they also said--when it came, it ALSO was "almost" there, but missed on some details, and the same is true for the Malibu?

My favorite part? Yet ANOTHER article slamming the Camry, commenting on crooked panels, rattles & squeaks, and sloppy as could be driving dynamics and feel. The best quote of it all? Here, in Second Opinions:

On the other hand, the Camry is just a mess. The engine is a marvel of power-to-fuel-economy ratio, but it's attached to a car completely unprepared for that much gusto. While the Altima's steering is light and communicative, the Camry's is light and clueless. The suspension clop-clops over bumpy roads, and the chassis feels just a hair more solid than linguini al dente. Plus, the interior isn't particularly impressive. Like Dancing with the Stars, I don't get why America loves the thing so much.

YES, YES, YES! See, more and more are still "getting it"...C&D did a while ago, Edmunds is more and more, etc. "Mess" is a perfect descriptor. Many still buy and love them...but that doesn't mean they're actually great. Or, as here, a fantastic V6...in a mushy, questionably assembled, squeak & rattle bag.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

At this time, no matter how great the Malibu is, no magazine will want to rate it first.

Bingo!

Further proof that the positive press is fleeting.

[Intrepidation]

Bingo!

Further proof that the positive press is fleeting.

Except it wasn't a negative comparison...the Camry was really the only one that got knocked. The Malibu made 3rd for valid reasons, you can't deny that. Remember these 4 are laso teh best of the best...so being 3rd out of every midsize car is nothing to be ashamed of.

[regfootball]

I disagree, I think the Altima as a whole is very sophisticated looking package. lines up front are instantly recognizable as 350Z new Nissan look, and are the best interpretation of the Nissan theme [which I am not a fan of at all, but on 350Z and Altima it does work better and best]. At the rear it continues that sophisticated and contemporary look. The car screams something that is unique and trying hard to be different, all the while saying something about Nissan, athletic.

What this comparison really proves is that the cars in this class are getting to a level of class and sophistication that means everyone can find something to love

and yet, the level of nitpicking in the press for this class is amazing, and even among internet posters.

go to some other sites where a bunch of punks who have likely never even held a car loan, used or new, or maybe who have been driving a car for like a year or two, absolutely crucify little things about these cars, yet in their own garage is probably a moped or some complete beater.

the amount of scrutiny in this class is bordering on unreasonable.

these cheap v6 sedans are so good, yet the level of minutia they get to in these tests borders on psychotic.

basically we come back around to this. America, go drive the effing cars yourselves and make your own selection.

Edited December 11, 2007 by regfootball

[Drew Dowdell]

the level of minutia they get to in these tests borders on psychotic.

[CARBIZ]

and yet, the level of nitpicking in the press for this class is amazing, and even among internet posters.

go to some other sites where a bunch of punks who have likely never even held a car loan, used or new, or maybe who have been driving a car for like a year or two, absolutely crucify little things about these cars, yet in their own garage is probably a moped or some complete beater.

the amount of scrutiny in this class is bordering on unreasonable.

these cheap v6 sedans are so good, yet the level of minutia they get to in these tests borders on psychotic.

basically we come back around to this. America, go drive the effing cars yourselves and make your own selection.

Thus, driving up the prices in general and forcing manufacturers to load up their vehicles with useless crap that only the magazines and 18 year olds with mopeds in their garage would want. I think GM has built a car for the masses, not for Edmunds.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Except it wasn't a negative comparison...the Camry was really the only one that got knocked. The Malibu made 3rd for valid reasons, you can't deny that. Remember these 4 are laso teh best of the best...so being 3rd out of every midsize car is nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm certainly not denying the merits of the Malibu and the write up was decent (eventhough it did include the typical girlish bitching about irrelevant things that plagues ALL Edmunds pieces)

But, the fact that the Altima beat the Malibu is a joke IMO... It hasn't even been close and is in no way a superior car.

If the Malibu can't beat the one year old Altima, then what do you all think will happen when the new Mazda 6 (A car in the same realm, except MUCH better) comes out?

I know that the Mazda 6 is technically Pontiac territory but the comparison will be made with Malibu given the fact that the current G6 is quickly becoming an also ran in even the lower end of the pack.

I'll be interested in comparisons from C&D and Automobile since they both gave the Malibu an award in favor of or in favor with the Accord. But I'll bet cha' despite the award, somehow, 'magically' the Malibu won't measure up to the new fat assed L300... err, Accord.

Just my :twocents:

Edited December 11, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Intrepidation]

Thus, driving up the prices in general and forcing manufacturers to load up their vehicles with useless crap that only the magazines and 18 year olds with mopeds in their garage would want. I think GM has built a car for the masses, not for Edmunds.

Yes, because a rear armrest, dual zone climate control, BlueTooth, and a Hard Drive to store music (so you don't get distracted trying change CDs while driving) are useless things that nobody would want.

I'm certainly not denying the merits of the Malibu and the write up was decent (eventhough it did include the typical girlish bitching about irrelevant things that plagues ALL Edmunds pieces)

But, the fact that the Altima beat the Malibu is a joke IMO... It hasn't even been close and is in no way a superior car.

If the Malibu can't beat the one year old Altima, then what do you all think will happen when the new Mazda 6 (A car in the same realm, except MUCH better) comes out?

I know that the Mazda 6 is technically Pontiac territory but the comparison will be made with Malibu given the fact that the current G6 is quickly becoming an also ran in even the lower end of the pack.

I'll be interested in comparisons from C&D and Automobile since they both gave the Malibu an award in favor of or in favor with the Accord. But I'll bet cha' despite the award, somehow, 'magically' the Malibu won't measure up to the new fat assed L300... err, Accord.

Just my :twocents:

The G6 was an also ran the day it was released IMO. The 6 is a midsizer so it competes with any midsize car technically, but I get what you are saying about it being a more direct competitor to Pontiac...assuming Pontiac had something to compete with.

If the Malibu had a less fussy transmission, and more features It would have beat the Altima, and perhaps even the Accord. All GM needs to do is add those features and improve the transmission programing.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Dodgefan

[ponchoman49]

This is exactly how I would predict the rankings to go. Unlike the eggheads at Motor trend who are gaga over the Blandry, Edmunds at least gave a fair account of things.

[PurdueGuy]

I'm sorry, but it seems silly that some people are considering dual zone climate control (which got used pretty much never in my old Regal) and bluetooth requirements for a CHEVY. Sure, they would be nice as options, but c'mon, the way some of you rant about them not being there it's like they forgot to include air conditioning or windows. They're more gadgets than useful features - if you can't get along with your passenger(s) enough to pick a temperature, or manage to wait until you can safely answer your phone, you've got more serious issues than "what midsize car should I buy?"

[siegen]

I'm sorry, but it seems silly that some people are considering dual zone climate control (which got used pretty much never in my old Regal) and bluetooth requirements for a CHEVY. Sure, they would be nice as options, but c'mon, the way some of you rant about them not being there it's like they forgot to include air conditioning or windows. They're more gadgets than useful features - if you can't get along with your passenger(s) enough to pick a temperature, or manage to wait until you can safely answer your phone, you've got more serious issues than "what midsize car should I buy?"

It's that kind of thinking that has held Chevy back.

[Drew Dowdell]

It's that kind of thinking that has held Chevy back.

Chevy should think like VW and completely ignore Buick and Cadillac.

Seriously, if you want this kind of stuff, aim for a Buick*, Cadillac or Saab.

Lets get some perspective here:

The Malibu in this test stickered at $27,245. According to CarsDirect, I can pick up a Saab 9-3 with leather and nav for $27,962. Bluetooth, sadly for some, is still not available.

The Camry in the test stickered at $31,619. The CTS bases at $32,990. $22.50 a month is worth it to not have to deal with a Toyota dealer and you still get a clearly superior car.

The Altima is an astonishing $32,545! Anyone willing to pay that price for a "sporty" sedan from Nissan needs to have their head examined. At that amount of money you're into CTS, 3-series, very well equipped 9-3, A4, and G35 territory if you want "sport" and ES, loaded LaCross Super, Lucerne V8, 300C AWD, and Lincoln MKZ AWD if you want luxury. At least one from each of those catagories is superior to the Altima.

So keep in mind what the Malibu would really be competing with if it were to start pushing 32k at it's top end.

It's your $32,545, demand better.

*where Buick should be... not where it is.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Oldsmoboi

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm sorry, but it seems silly that some people are considering dual zone climate control (which got used pretty much never in my old Regal) and bluetooth requirements for a CHEVY. Sure, they would be nice as options, but c'mon, the way some of you rant about them not being there it's like they forgot to include air conditioning or windows. They're more gadgets than useful features - if you can't get along with your passenger(s) enough to pick a temperature, or manage to wait until you can safely answer your phone, you've got more serious issues than "what midsize car should I buy?"

[Intrepidation]

I'm sorry, but it seems silly that some people are considering dual zone climate control (which got used pretty much never in my old Regal) and bluetooth requirements for a CHEVY. Sure, they would be nice as options, but c'mon, the way some of you rant about them not being there it's like they forgot to include air conditioning or windows. They're more gadgets than useful features - if you can't get along with your passenger(s) enough to pick a temperature, or manage to wait until you can safely answer your phone, you've got more serious issues than "what midsize car should I buy?"

It's features you can get in most other midsizers and a growing number of compacts...

It's excuse making and poor reasoning like that that got GM to where it was and why the last Malibu was a complete piece of garbage.

Maybe you don't ride in a vehicle often with more than 2 people, but a lot of times the people in the back want a different temperature than the people up front. So what, because it's a Chevy the aren't allowed to have have nice things? I suppose a rear armrest is too much to ask too right?

As for BlueTooth...with so many people driving while talking on cell phones, the less distractions they have (holding the phone, dialing, etc.) the better. In a way it's a safety device...since people can't seem to put down the damn phone anyway.

[Drew Dowdell]

I agree about the bluetooth, however, Chevies aren't supposed to be luxurymobiles. If you want high end doo-dads go to an Oldsmo... uh... Saturn dealer or Buick dealer after Buick fixes themselves. Again, the Chevy is by far the cheapest of the bunch, nearly $4,000 cheaper than the next car up. Once you hit 30k, I'm no longer thinking Chevy... or Nissan or Honda or Toyota.

[turbo200]

I agree about the bluetooth, however, Chevies aren't supposed to be luxurymobiles. If you want high end doo-dads go to an Oldsmo... uh... Saturn dealer or Buick dealer after Buick fixes themselves. Again, the Chevy is by far the cheapest of the bunch, nearly $4,000 cheaper than the next car up. Once you hit 30k, I'm no longer thinking Chevy... or Nissan or Honda or Toyota.

that argument is flawed because when your competition is there, you must also be there. last i checked toyota, honda, nissan make cars for everyday people in the general class category. their messages may be different, but ultimately they compete in the same price range Chevy is in

[Drew Dowdell]

that argument is flawed because when your competition is there, you must also be there. last i checked toyota, honda, nissan make cars for everyday people in the general class category. their messages may be different, but ultimately they compete in the same price range Chevy is in

And *that* argument is flawed because that is exactly what got GM into trouble in the first place.

J-Body - Cavalier, Sunbird, Fierenza, Skyhawk, Cimmeron

A-body - Celebrity,6000,Cutlass Ciera, Skylark

G-Body - Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Cutlass Supreme, Regal

B/D-Body - Caprice, Impala, Bonneville, Catalina, Parisianne, Safari, Delta 88, Custom Cruiser, Electra, LeSabre, Roadmaster, Brougham

There needs to be differentiation if you want to keep the brands. If you are advocating cutting GM back to just Chevy and Cadillac, then fine, just say it. However With as many brands as GM has, each brand needs to occupy a smaller segment. That's the harsh reality. Either cut brands or cut the segment size each brand covers. GM can offer a car for everybody's wants and needs, but you may have to go to a different dealer to get it.

[turbo200]

And *that* argument is flawed because that is exactly what got GM into trouble in the first place.

J-Body - Cavalier, Sunbird, Fierenza, Skyhawk, Cimmeron

A-body - Celebrity,6000,Cutlass Ciera, Skylark

G-Body - Monte Carlo, Grand Prix, Cutlass Supreme, Regal

B/D-Body - Caprice, Impala, Bonneville, Catalina, Parisianne, Safari, Delta 88, Custom Cruiser, Electra, LeSabre, Roadmaster, Brougham

There needs to be differentiation if you want to keep the brands. If you are advocating cutting GM back to just Chevy and Cadillac, then fine, just say it. However With as many brands as GM has, each brand needs to occupy a smaller segment. That's the harsh reality. Either cut brands or cut the segment size each brand covers. GM can offer a car for everybody's wants and needs, but you may have to go to a different dealer to get it.

what got GM in problems was not feature content, it was that the cars looked exactly the same inside and out, like they used the same templates, and edited and pasted some squares here and some buttons there. it was cars that lacked all creative thought and did not compete directly with what the market was demanding. it was worrying about all the stupid brands and where they fit in, and trying hard not to step on each other's toes that got people in trouble

it was the thinking that Chevy needed to have all OHV engines to show that they were the lower class cars while Pontiac and Buick on higher end models *could* get smooth refined and high-revving flexible DOHC engines.

that's just one example.

it's not about features.

it's about brand image, and if the car reinforces that image.

VW and Audi share the A3/GTI. both come with ultra technical DSG, but both are distinct and cool, and very different cars once the hair is done. Audi's design choices say technical, calculated, austere, and fashionable. VW's design choice says more boy racer, and more simplistic, more minimalist, but also more risk-taking

Edited December 13, 2007 by turbo200

[Drew Dowdell]

Oh yea... and how's VW doing profitability these days? Sales of the Passat, Jetta, Phaeton, Tourage, Beetle doing that well these days?

Yes, Nissan, Honda, and Toyota all offer their midsized sedan up over the 30k mark. How many of those actually sell? All three admit that the vast bulk of their sales are the cylinder variants. Passat is an extreme example, but it was possible to get that car up over 40k. Should Chevy be aiming for that too?

When the Camry, Accord and Altima start selling primarily in the $32k range then the Chevy needs to readjust.

I'll say again, if you really want all the doodads, have $32k to spend, and the best thing you can come up with is an Altima, you're either not paying attention or you need to go see Dr. House for an MRI of your skull.

[turbo200]

Oh yea... and how's VW doing profitability these days? Sales of the Passat, Jetta, Phaeton, Tourage, Beetle doing that well these days?

Yes, Nissan, Honda, and Toyota all offer their midsized sedan up over the 30k mark. How many of those actually sell? All three admit that the vast bulk of their sales are the cylinder variants. Passat is an extreme example, but it was possible to get that car up over 40k. Should Chevy be aiming for that too?

When the Camry, Accord and Altima start selling primarily in the $32k range then the Chevy needs to readjust.

I'll say again, if you really want all the doodads, have $32k to spend, and the best thing you can come up with is an Altima, you're either not paying attention or you need to go see Dr. House for an MRI of your skull.

okay i get that this isn't that big of a deal. but it's still there. it's still an argument. it doesn't make the malibu a lesser car, but most of us car enthusiasts like the whole experience, and I can tell you there are plenty of people out there recognizing the inherent goodness in the everyday Accord, Camry, and Altima, but they don't want to give up features they like. NAV for one, bluetooth, center rear armrest, hard drive.....all these features have validity, in today's market, in any car. what's so hard to see about that?

the first paragraphs are a waste on me. you're making points that aren't even relevant, and you're still not seeing the core that these features are offered in direct competitors to malibu, yet not in malibu. it's the same tired old pro GM argument. GM gets it, according to you. I know

[Drew Dowdell]

okay i get that this isn't that big of a deal. but it's still there. it's still an argument. it doesn't make the malibu a lesser car, but most of us car enthusiasts like the whole experience, and I can tell you there are plenty of people out there recognizing the inherent goodness in the everyday Accord, Camry, and Altima, but they don't want to give up features they like. NAV for one, bluetooth, center rear armrest, hard drive.....all these features have validity, in today's market, in any car. what's so hard to see about that?

the first paragraphs are a waste on me. you're making points that aren't even relevant, and you're still not seeing the core that these features are offered in direct competitors to malibu, yet not in malibu. it's the same tired old pro GM argument. GM gets it, according to you. I know

My first two paragraphs ARE relevant. You want GM to produce a car that it basically won't be able to sell! If Honda, Nissan, and Toyota only move a small number of cars configured this way, how well do you think Chevy is going to do? Honda and Toyota at least have built in lifers who would buy a giant cow turd on wheels as long as it had the proper badge on the front. I care more about GM making a profit than being a volume leader.

If you want NAV that bad, you can still visit your Saab dealer and get a car on the same platform with NAV for 30k. It's not like GM doesn't sell something that covers what you want. If you were making this argument about the Aura, Lacross, or even maybe a redesigned G6, I'd support it. GM has no less than 4 other vehicles that *should* have these options for any flavor you like <euro, sport, luxury,american>.

Edit: The cheapest Accord with NAV is $27,895 for a 4cylinder/5-speed. Cheapest V6 is $30,895.

The cheapest Altima is a V6 with 5-speed for $31,805, BUT you get cloth interior, no sunroof, no heated seats, no XM, no Homelink, no Bluetooth, no duel zone climate control.

You can get a Saab 9-3 Turbo with every option box checked and STILL come in cheaper than the Altima.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Oldsmoboi

[Cory Wolfe]

Such silly excuses. You guys want GM to be their best and beat their competitors, yet, you settle for good enough. Where has that ever gotten anyone? The Malibu goes against the Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion, etc. There is NO reason it shouldn't have something that they do if it truly wants to compete. You have to be the best, to beat the best. Stop making excuses for why the Malibu doesn't have certain features, even if you think it doesnt need them. The Malibu seems to be a great car, but these arguements are justified. End of discussion.

At one time, I'm sure ABS brakes, automatic transmissions, power windows, CD players, bucket seats, etc were all thought of as luxury features that wouldnt sell to the masses.

Edited December 13, 2007 by blackviper8891

[-Camaro-]

All these features are just features. They shouldn't be looked at as making the car better, because they don't. Matching features will not make you the best and even adding more features do not and should not make you the best. It's the core of the car that should make you the best. Sadly critics don't seem to realize that, because they're just an added bonus. If the car sucks and is loaded with more features than the competition it doesn't make a good car. I'm impressed that the Malibu beat the Camry and hung with the best w/OUT these features.

Dual Climate control doesn't make your car any better. You guys are all brainwashed by what the media wants and that simply is true. Most regular people don't go "oh no dual climate control? I'm going to Honda!". Most regular people don't buy another vehicle because of no rear seat arm rest, because it does not make your vehicle any better of a vehicle, it's just a feature that many still do not even have. Only hardcore people like critics crap on this kind of stuff and I'm not saying lacking features is acceptable or should be done on purpose either.

Edited December 13, 2007 by -Camaro-

[Drew Dowdell]

Such silly excuses. You guys want GM to be their best and beat their competitors, yet, you settle for good enough. Where has that ever gotten anyone? The Malibu goes against the Camry, Accord, Altima, Fusion, etc. There is NO reason it shouldn't have something that they do if it truly wants to compete. You have to be the best, to beat the best. Stop making excuses for why the Malibu doesn't have certain features, even if you think it doesnt need them. The Malibu seems to be a great car, but these arguements are justified. End of discussion.

At one time, I'm sure ABS brakes, automatic transmissions, power windows, CD players, bucket seats, etc were all thought of as luxury features that wouldnt sell to the masses.

GM MAKES MORE THAN ONE CAR TO COVER THIS! THE MALIBU DOESN'T HAVE TO BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYBODY!

You guys are saying that I'M stuck in old school GM think. It's YOU guys who are stuck in that mindset. You want every epsilon to have Nav, Bluetooth,get the same engines, etc. etc. etc. you want their option sheets too look identical and only the front and rear fascias be different!

Congrats people! If you get your way it will be the 1977 B-bodies all over again. Shesh, even the W-bodies had more differentiation than what you guys want.

[turbo200]

GM MAKES MORE THAN ONE CAR TO COVER THIS! THE MALIBU DOESN'T HAVE TO BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYBODY!

You guys are saying that I'M stuck in old school GM think. It's YOU guys who are stuck in that mindset. You want every epsilon to have Nav, Bluetooth,get the same engines, etc. etc. etc. you want their option sheets too look identical and only the front and rear fascias be different!

Congrats people! If you get your way it will be the 1977 B-bodies all over again. Shesh, even the W-bodies had more differentiation than what you guys want.

differentiation is not made up by features! it's made up by the overall appeal of a car. that's simple enough to understand. long sleek luxurious and quiet with a supple ride and powerful engineering is Buick. Pontiac is performance and aggressive design, the youth brand. Saturn has a European dynamic, from ride to style to quality to selection of models it should replicate the best of Europe's mainstream. Cadillac is the highest class, should be able to match up with the best of the luxury world. GMC offers trucks, should be made with a higher bent towards design. Hummer is a 4X4 monster of a truck. Chevrolet is the mainstream brand!!!! Honda, Toyota, Nissan, are mainstream brands.....so if they are selling something, Chevy should too. Navi Hondas at my dealership in Honda [when I worked there] only represented 10% of overall stock, but it was there when they had a Mercedes or Lexus or whatever buyer who was trading in and wanted the feature both for presense and the tech aspect of it.

Why are we arguing this? Can't you just accept GM made a mistake, however slight it is, in not offering Malibu with NAV?

It's not about Chevy. Chevy is not like a Chinese brand, or a Kia, or whatever you're making it out to be. The freakin Tahoe Hybrid is $50k!! The bottom line is Chevy could be at the forefront of everything, in this iteration they chose not to.

[turbo200]

It's YOU guys who are stuck in that mindset. You want every epsilon to have Nav, Bluetooth,get the same engines, etc. etc. etc. you want their option sheets too look identical and only the front and rear fascias be different!

I want the cars to be different. Sure Buick and Chevy both need a mainstream FWD sedan. Let's decide that Buick gets the big one, and Chevy gets the regular sized [already big] one. Let's decide to really put some effort in making the suspension of the Buick feel superior in a sense to the Chevy's. Make it more damped, more controlled, a commanding feel of the road, but less feedback, more isolation, kind of what MB has had going for them for many years. A tank like feel. Let's make sure the doors shut with a vault like authority, expressing luxury, because after all we want to try to get 30k to start for this "glorified Chevy". Let's supremely design this interior. Ensconce this person/buyer in luxury premium unbelieveable design that is nowhere else; the design should get people to say to thier friends "Oooh did you see that Buick. That was nice". Let's design an exterior that is breathtaking and unique to Buick, stands out of the crowd, and proudly announces itself as a luxury vehicle.

Once we're done designing the highly profitable, highly individualistic, the one that luxury buyers are going to heavily scrutinize, car....then we can move on to the basic Malibu. First we shorten the wheelbase by about 3 inches, we take away a little of the width, because the Buick should be roomy and spacious in the back, almost like a limo for those that get driven around. Next, we take away some of the richness of the paint, the materials....The current Malibu surprises me because it's right where I would put Chevy right now if I were in charge of product imaging; I might add a little more high quality materials, but the car is sweetly respectable, and the price that is asked is exactly right. It's the car for general purposes. The other brands can handle other more specialized needs.

Edited December 13, 2007 by turbo200

[Drew Dowdell]

differentiation is not made up by features! it's made up by the overall appeal of a car. that's simple enough to understand. long sleek luxurious and quiet with a supple ride and powerful engineering is Buick. Pontiac is performance and aggressive design, the youth brand. Saturn has a European dynamic, from ride to style to quality to selection of models it should replicate the best of Europe's mainstream. Cadillac is the highest class, should be able to match up with the best of the luxury world. GMC offers trucks, should be made with a higher bent towards design. Hummer is a 4X4 monster of a truck. Chevrolet is the mainstream brand!!!! Honda, Toyota, Nissan, are mainstream brands.....so if they are selling something, Chevy should too. Navi Hondas at my dealership in Honda [when I worked there] only represented 10% of overall stock, but it was there when they had a Mercedes or Lexus or whatever buyer who was trading in and wanted the feature both for presense and the tech aspect of it.

Why are we arguing this? Can't you just accept GM made a mistake, however slight it is, in not offering Malibu with NAV?

It's not about Chevy. Chevy is not like a Chinese brand, or a Kia, or whatever you're making it out to be. The freakin Tahoe Hybrid is $50k!! The bottom line is Chevy could be at the forefront of everything, in this iteration they chose not to.

I don't accept that GM made a mistake because I don't accept the idea of homogenization of the brands. I'll buy into your idea as long as you buy into the idea that GM will have to kill Pontiac, Buick, Saturn, and Saab to do it. You basically want a Malibu, Malibu Lux, Malibu SE, and Malibu EU. All the epsilons start within 6k of each other. Just ditch the other brands.

You cannot tell me that people only buy the ES330 because it has a L on the hood and they completely ignore the other options.

[Drew Dowdell]

It's the car for general purposes. The other brands can handle other more specialized needs.

Wow... imagine that.

[Z-06]

GM MAKES MORE THAN ONE CAR TO COVER THIS! THE MALIBU DOESN'T HAVE TO BE EVERYTHING TO EVERYBODY!

You guys are saying that I'M stuck in old school GM think. It's YOU guys who are stuck in that mindset. You want every epsilon to have Nav, Bluetooth,get the same engines, etc. etc. etc. you want their option sheets too look identical and only the front and rear fascias be different!

Congrats people! If you get your way it will be the 1977 B-bodies all over again. Shesh, even the W-bodies had more differentiation than what you guys want.

As much as you are right, sheeples will not get it. Let us theoritically say that a family goes on to Chevy dealer trying to get a mid-sized sedan. They are stuck on those features which the Bu does not offer. What will the Chevy dealer say? Go to the Buick or Pontiac store? I 100% guarantee that the dealer despite being a diehard GM fan will NOT say that.

People are getting in the mentality that there is TOY and then there is LEXASS. Thus, do not comprehend what Pontiac and Buick stand for. If they do not have in the Bu what Toy has in Crapry, they will not go to Buick or Pontiac. (As much as some people here hate the Chevy and love the other two). That is the reality. GM thus needs to offer those features in Malibu, regardless of where it stands in the GM foodchain.

[turbo200]

NAV is no longer specialty. It's no longer reserved for luxury cars. In the market today there are general brands for the massive segment of general buyers, premium brands, and high end. Above that exist specialties like Lambo, Ferrari, etc.

Chevy is a general brand and it needs general features. I'm not asking for a massaging rear seat like a Lexus would offer, I'm asking for NAV like a Mazda or Honda offers. Is that too much to ask of Chevy, to compete with Mazda and Honda?

[Drew Dowdell]

Thus, do not comprehend what Pontiac and Buick stand for. If they do not have in the Bu what Toy has in Crapry, they will not go to Buick or Pontiac.

That is Buick, Saturn, and Pontiac's and over all GM's problem, not Chevy's. Fix those other brands and this issue goes away.

[Intrepidation]

This argument is pathetic. Those of you who think such features should be reserved for Buick and Saturn and not for Chevy miss the point.

Let's break it down.

Chevy is the volume brand. No if ands or buts about it. Chevy competes squarely with the Accord, Camry, Avenger, Altima and so on. All of the above mentioned have features that the Malibu does not have. If the Malibu competes with this price class it should have features comparable to them.

Furthermore, the argument about things like NAV, Bluetooth and so on is further made moot b the fact that this stuff is available on cheaper cars a class down from the Malibu.

Aditionally, such standard options are not what differentiates the vehicles. Sheetmetal, interiors, materials, suspension tuning, and upmarket features are what separates the platform mates and other vehicles. Things like Adaptive Cruise control you would reserve for Buck and Cadillac, that's not something anyone would expect from a Chevy. Dual Zone climate control is.

As others have said, the refusal to admit GM's mistakes and think "good enough" is good enough is the sort of mentality that lead to GM churning out crap for 20 or so years.

Edited December 13, 2007 by Dodgefan

[-Camaro-]

Malibu > The rest. Just for the fact it can hang with the best of them and beat alot of them w/out these features. Shows how good the car really is. If it had all of these features it would be the undisputed champion.

Edited December 13, 2007 by -Camaro-

[Drew Dowdell]

NAV is no longer specialty. It's no longer reserved for luxury cars. In the market today there are general brands for the massive segment of general buyers, premium brands, and high end. Above that exist specialties like Lambo, Ferrari, etc.

Chevy is a general brand and it needs general features. I'm not asking for a massaging rear seat like a Lexus would offer, I'm asking for NAV like a Mazda or Honda offers. Is that too much to ask of Chevy, to compete with Mazda and Honda?

If Honda were offering NAV in a $24,000 Accord, I'd say no. However, NAV only comes on the most loaded models that reach well into Buick*, Saab, and even Cadillac territory. You said it yourself, only 10% of your inventory had NAV. Not having NAV increases the value of Buick, Saab and Cadillac. If someone gives up a Malibu and goes and buys a $32k Altima, that's their own problem for not visiting Buick, Saab, or even Lincoln.

*where Buick should be.

[Drew Dowdell]

Furthermore, the argument about things like NAV, Bluetooth and so on is further made moot b the fact that this stuff is available on cheaper cars a class down from the Malibu.

But not in the same class for cheaper than the Malibu. Keep in mind that you're going to pay $24k for a Mazda 3 with Nav, leather, etc.

[turbo200]

You cannot tell me that people only buy the ES330 because it has a L on the hood and they completely ignore the other options.

ok, glad you brought up this comparison. in the ES350 we have features like real walnut trim wood, ventilated seats, dual mode memory seats programmable to the remote, keyless ignition, etc

things you could never get on a Camry. But you can get NAVI on both. that's how you properly differentiate between luxury features and standard car features, you react to what the market calls for. if 10% of the market for midsize cars in general select a NAV, isn't that enough buyers to justify competing for? 5% of the midsize market would still be at least 100,000 buyers.

[Cory Wolfe]

Same people are just stupid, that settles it.