Challanger Price Updated and it is More

[hyperv6]

Here is the latest from Autoblog on the Challangers price.

Autoblog.com:

One of our readers pointed us to this page over at Dodge's website that contradicted our earlier post about the 2008 Challenger SRT-8's pricing, which was originally announced at $37,995 (including the $675 destination charge). We realize that inflation is a cruel mistress, but a bump in the sticker to $40,095 left us scratching our heads. A few emails back and forth between the people at Chrysler revealed that the SRT-8 was slapped with a $2100 gas-guzzler penalty that accounted for the discrepancy in price. Not a real surprise considering the 425 hp 6.1-liter HEMI V8. As a comparison, however, the Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 gets a $1300 consumption penalty, even with 75 more horses under the hood. A quick search over at fueleconomy.gov revealed that if Challenger SRT-8 owners are penalized $2100, that means that they'll also only be getting between 18.5 and 19.5 mpg in the combined cycle

[ZL-1]

Oil at $90-$100 a barrel, gas guzzler taxes and V8s do not mix well together.

Anyone remember "death of the V8"? If you do, please discuss for my viewing pleasure :AH-HA_wink:

Edited December 1, 2007 by ZL-1

[Oracle of Delphi]

Oil at $90-$100 a barrel, gas guzzler taxes and V8s do not mix well together.

TICK-TOCK! :AH-HA_wink:

[AAS]

TICK-TOCK! :AH-HA_wink:

Hey... stop it already!!!

My V8 gets 30 mpg highway and it's almost 8 years old... I'd hope these newer ones could match that on the highway and improve on the streets. The problem isn't the fuel economy as much as it is the "premium" fuel requirement.

[CaddyXLR-V]

My 400hp V8 car didn't have the gas guzzler tax.

[Intrepidation]

That sucks and I think sales may hurt because of it. I still don't get why they don't put MDS in the 6.1.

[CaddyXLR-V]

That sucks and I think sales may hurt because of it. I still don't get why they don't put MDS in the 6.1.

I think it's because it increases the valvetrain weight, so they can't rev as high or as quickly.

[ehaase]

Anyone remember "death of the V8"? If you do, please discuss for my viewing pleasure :AH-HA_wink:

Those who ridiculed Evok (whom I greatly miss) for that thread will eat their words. With 35 mpg CAFE about to become law, even V6's will be rare in 10 years.

[Northstar]

TICK-TOCK! :AH-HA_wink:

Because every RWD car that has optional V8 power is going to have gas guzzler tax. Yep, really Tick-tock here. Those V6 and I4 Pontiacs are surely going to have gas guzzler tax since this 4000lb 425HP V8 Challenger does. Yep, the two go hand in hand

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

My 400hp V8 car isn't driven more than 500 miles a year, so whatever

I don't think it'll be THAT drastic... I think innovation will allow for V8's to stick around. Maybe not to the point that they are now though.

[CMG]

Prices and gas guzzler taxes are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

A car's MSRP is not "changed" because someone then figures in the gas guzzler tax!

I'm assuming another thread will be started when the destination charges and PDI costs are factored in too.

LOL!!!

Come on guys.

*sigh*

[BatmanGTO]

Hey... stop it already!!!

My V8 gets 30 mpg highway and it's almost 8 years old... I'd hope these newer ones could match that on the highway and improve on the streets. The problem isn't the fuel economy as much as it is the "premium" fuel requirement.

Mine gets 30 plus as well granted its 75 horse less than the challenger ... but still

[ZL-1]

Those who ridiculed Evok (whom I greatly miss) for that thread will eat their words.

I think that (except for FOG's post above), all of them missed evok's point about the V8 dying as a volume option. I think his point was the V8 becoming in the US what it is in Europe: a high-end, low volume alternative.

Prices and gas guzzler taxes are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

A car's MSRP is not "changed" because someone then figures in the gas guzzler tax!

I'm assuming another thread will be started when the destination charges and PDI costs are factored in too.

LOL!!!

Come on guys.

*sigh*

Different things, yes. Where we differ is that I don't expect US makers subsidizing V8-engined cars (in the form of keeping MSRP unchanged and thus giving up part of their margins to compensate for the gas guzzler taxes the manufacturers pay to the IRS) much longer. Edited December 1, 2007 by ZL-1

[Robert Hall]

I think that (except for FOG's post above), all of them missed evok's point about the V8 dying as a volume option. I think his point was the V8 becoming in the US what it is in Europe: a high-end, low volume alternative.

Different things, yes. Where we differ is that I don't expect US makers subsidizing V8-engined cars (in the form of keeping MSRP unchanged and thus giving up part of their margins to compensate for the gas guzzler taxes the manufacturers pay to the IRS) much longer.

Except for premium import luxury models, sports cars, trucks and SUVs, V8s haven't really been a high volume option in the US market in many years....currently, the domestics offer V8s in a few niche performance models (Mustang, GTO, G8) and a few larger sedans (Grand Marquis, STS, DTS, Lucerne, Town Car, 300C, Magnum, Charger).

Edited December 1, 2007 by moltar

[Oracle of Delphi]

Those who ridiculed Evok (whom I greatly miss) for that thread will eat their words. With 35 mpg CAFE about to become law, even V6's will be rare in 10 years.

I miss him too! But my Spiddy sense tells me he's closer than you think!

Edited December 1, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Oracle of Delphi]

Because every RWD car that has optional V8 power is going to have gas guzzler tax. Yep, really Tick-tock here. Those V6 and I4 Pontiacs are surely going to have gas guzzler tax since this 4000lb 425HP V8 Challenger does. Yep, the two go hand in hand

Did I say every RWD? The exchange rates will either kill the G8 or GM will be forced to move the G8 to North America, sooner, rather than later. The crude oil price is just icing on the cake. And yes TICK-TICK, it's coming! :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

Let's not go there guys.

[gm4life]

Lets put it this way were getting the G8 and if it gets moved to NA it does. If not oh well that doesn't change its smashing good looks or its excellent driving dynamics.

[ZL-1]

Except for premium import luxury models, sports cars, trucks and SUVs, V8s haven't really been a high volume option in the US market in many years....currently, the domestics offer V8s in a few niche performance models (Mustang, GTO, G8) and a few larger sedans (Grand Marquis, STS, DTS, Lucerne, Town Car, 300C, Magnum, Charger).

V8s are certainly not as mainstream as the 1960s, but I believe there's much more offer of V8 powered cars in the US relative to Europe and the rest of the World. That will change if gas prices don't fall. In order not to be accused of 'Tick-Tock-ing', I'm saying I don't see V8 SS Impalas and Super Lacrosses surviving long in a world of $100-a-barrel oil.

Unfortunately, I believe only OEMs have the breakdown needed to analyse the issue in detail, but I'm pretty this discussion is ongoing in all 3 US OEMs right now: product planning needs to face oil at $100 or $120 a barrel. Right now.

Edited December 1, 2007 by ZL-1

[ZL-1]

I miss him too! But my Spiddy sense tells me he's closer than you think!

I miss his posts... He seemed to separate the enthusiast side of things from the tough-business-decisions side of things pretty well: I like that!

I wonder if he's tick-tock-ing too?

Edited December 1, 2007 by ZL-1

[Northstar]

Did I say every RWD? The exchange rates will either kill the G8 or GM will be forced to move the G8 to North America, sooner, rather than later. The crude oil price is just icing on the cake. And yes TICK-TICK, it's coming! :AH-HA_wink:

So then what does your original tick-tock post have anything to do with the Challenger if that's all you're implying? The G8 and Challenger are totally different vehicles and the Challenger having gas-guzzler tax has nothing to do with the G8 and exchange rates.

[SuperSport623]

wait doesnt the vette escape the gas guzzler tax?

[Northstar]

wait doesnt the vette escape the gas guzzler tax?

Yes, the Vette gets good enough gas mileage to escape it. The Challenger's weight really hurts it in MPG.

[Chris_Doane]

The G8 will be built in NA in the not too distant future.

[Oracle of Delphi]

So then what does your original TICK-TOCK post have anything to do with the Challenger if that's all you're implying? The G8 and Challenger are totally different vehicles and the Challenger having gas-guzzler tax has nothing to do with the G8 and exchange rates.

Northie you seem upset, you shouldn't let two little words like TICK-TOCK bother you like that. Take a minute to relax, Lord knows I don't want you to stroke out over 2 little words.

My TICK-TOCK was in respone to this statement below, meaning any car with this combination of factors is doomed to extinction, hence the TICK-TOCK. So if you have crude at a high price + gas guzzler taxes + V8 it will equal extinction of that vehicle.

Oil at $90-$100 a barrel, gas guzzler taxes and V8s do not mix well together.

Oh and yes I know the Challenger and the G8 are different, however you seem to always think when I talk about V8's and RWD, I'm talking about the Holden G8, oops I mean Pontiac, thats why I was letting you know I don't have to bad mouth the car, it will fall all on it's own by the exchange rates alone, if GM doesn't do something and soon.

The G8 will be built in NA in the not too distant future.

Yes Chris, we are in agreement on that, no matter what Holden says! :AH-HA_wink:

Edited December 2, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Robert Hall]

Northie you seem upset, you shouldn't let two little words like TIC-TOC bother you like that. Take a minute to relax, Lord knows I don't want you to stroke out over 2 little words.

My TIC-TOC was in respone to this statement below, meaning any car with this combination of factors is doomed to extinction, hence the TIC-TOC. So if you have crude at a high price + gas guzzler taxes + V8 it will equal extinction of that vehicle.

The gas guzzler taxes should be applied also to all the obese full size trucks and SUVs that struggle to get 15 mpg..

[Northstar]

My TIC-TOC was in respone to this statement below, meaning any car with this combination of factors is doomed to extinction, hence the TIC-TOC. So if you have crude at a high price + gas guzzler taxes + V8 it will equal extinction of that vehicle.

Oh and yes I know the Challenger and the G8 are different, however you seem to always think when I talk about V8's and RWD, I'm talking about the Holden G8, oops I mean Pontiac, thats why I was letting you know I don't have to bad mouth the car, it will fall all on it's own by the exchange rates alone, if GM doesn't do something and soon.

Why have the Charger and 300 not failed then? They both sell thousands and thousands of V8 units each month. Fact is, there are plenty of people who can afford to pay a one-time gas guzzler fee AND afford to pay high gas prices. Tahoe sales are doing quite well, and it gets worse mileage then the Challenger and costs more. Why? Because there are people who can afford to pay for it. Yeah, they don't want to, but they can. Guess what? The people who are buying $15k Cobalts so that they can get better MPG or a $24k Malibu so that they can get better MPG don't want to pay for it either, and I don't think it takes an accountant to realize that the people would can afford to pay $40k for a Challenger can also afford to pay more for gas.

Yes Chris, we are in agreement on that, no matter what Holden says! :AH-HA_wink

Sounds like the TIC TOCK clock on the G8 has stopped ticking.

[ZL-1]

The gas guzzler taxes should be applied also to all the obese full size trucks and SUVs that struggle to get 15 mpg.

It should and sooner or later it will. I see a few exceptions for businesses and self-employed people, but nothing else. Edited December 2, 2007 by ZL-1

[CMG]

The R/T Challengers will have the 5.7 Hemi with MDS, they *might* evade the tax. The gas guzzler tax will apply to the 2008 version of the Challenger, and ALL are the 425hp 6.1 Hemi auto.

[thegriffon]

Those who ridiculed Evok (whom I greatly miss) for that thread will eat their words. With 35 mpg CAFE about to become law, even V6's will be rare in 10 years.

An affordable car larger than a Cobalt will be rare in 10 years.

[gm4life]

People that have Suburbans and Tahoes (at least new ones) are doctors or doctors wifes for the most part in my town and have a high paying job, therefore they can afford the gas.

[ponchoman49]

Oil at $90-$100 a barrel, gas guzzler taxes and V8s do not mix well together.

Anyone remember "death of the V8"? If you do, please discuss for my viewing pleasure :AH-HA_wink:

I remember it quite well as I lived through it. In the early 70's it was the ever shrinking compression ratio and HP numbers and by the late 70's and early 80's it was shrinking engine displacements and sticking V6 engines in litterally everything from a Caddy Cimmaron to a 4000 LB plus Fleetwood Brougham. GM was caught out with LeSabres, Bonevilles, 88/98, Park Ave, Deville, Fleetwood, Seville and Eldorados without large displacement V8's after 1980 and the largest gas engine was a 307 or a 350 diesel. Many were made with 231 or 252 CID V6 engines that litteraly couldn't get out of there own way. It wasn't until the 90's when V8's made a comeback in the SUV and truck craze when gas was cheap again. And now we are right back in the same mess we were in the 70's all over again with way too many large gas sucking V8's on the road and record oil prices.

[A Horse With No Name]

Those who ridiculed Evok (whom I greatly miss) for that thread will eat their words. With 35 mpg CAFE about to become law, even V6's will be rare in 10 years.

Even 4 cyl performance cars with small bore such as the Miata and the Cooper S won't meet 35 mpg.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I remember it quite well as I lived through it. In the early 70's it was the ever shrinking compression ratio and HP numbers and by the late 70's and early 80's it was shrinking engine displacements and sticking V6 engines in litterally everything from a Caddy Cimmaron to a 4000 LB plus Fleetwood Brougham. GM was caught out with LeSabres, Bonevilles, 88/98, Park Ave, Deville, Fleetwood, Seville and Eldorados without large displacement V8's after 1980 and the largest gas engine was a 307 or a 350 diesel. Many were made with 231 or 252 CID V6 engines that litteraly couldn't get out of there own way. It wasn't until the 90's when V8's made a comeback in the SUV and truck craze when gas was cheap again. And now we are right back in the same mess we were in the 70's all over again with way too many large gas sucking V8's on the road and record oil prices.

My faith in humans to learn anything from their mistakes iat an all time low...

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

It should and sooner or later it will. I see a few exceptions for businesses and self-employed people, but nothing else.

This would be fair and a great idea.

Chris

[Micah Pie]

I should probably shut up because I have never even heard of such a thing as a gas guzzler tax, but I'll keep driving my 307 Rocket V8 (yeah, it's the "small" one). Screw gas prices and new car prices.

[NOS2006]

As I said in the January Car Spotted thread, I saw the Challenger dash the other day and, while better quality than the LX sedans, it's still not worth $41,000+

I hope the Camaro's is nicer, and better designed. The design on the Challenger's is kind of boring.

[Duncan]

As I said in the January Car Spotted thread, I saw the Challenger dash the other day and, while better quality than the LX sedans, it's still not worth $41,000+

I hope the Camaro's is nicer, and better designed. The design on the Challenger's is kind of boring.

Well, the original Challenger didn't exactly have an earth-shaking interior either.

In any case, the interior is the thing I'm least concerned about in a stylish coupe that offers two thumping V8 choices under the hood, along with manual transmissions and rear-wheel drive. Given those attributes alone, I would gladly accept plywood and Astroturf in the interior.

[NOS2006]

To each their own.

I personally think the Camaro is much better styled, will have better V8 choices (considering MPG and power based off of other vehicles with the same engines), and will be better handling. All will tell upon the release of the two vehicles, but this is how I see it panning out.

[A Horse With No Name]

Well, the original Challenger didn't exactly have an earth-shaking interior either.

In any case, the interior is the thing I'm least concerned about in a stylish coupe that offers two thumping V8 choices under the hood, along with manual transmissions and rear-wheel drive. Given those attributes alone, I would gladly accept plywood and Astroturf in the interior.

Actually back in the day...I remember first gen (70-74) Challengers cruising around with plywood and astro-turf inside them. Which along with an 8 track and some groovy bell bottoms might make for a "period appropriate" modifications.

Now where were those Bias ply 50 series tires on those rusty crager SS Mag wheels...methinks I need to go back out to the garage...

Chris

[Duncan]

To each their own.

I personally think the Camaro is much better styled, will have better V8 choices (considering MPG and power based off of other vehicles with the same engines), and will be better handling. All will tell upon the release of the two vehicles, but this is how I see it panning out.

Well, it all depends. I'll be waiting until after both cars actually arrive on the market to make a decision. Right now, I'm just glad there's a three-way battle brewing again in the pony-car world (even if the new CAFE regs end up making it a short one).

[NOS2006]

I'm just glad there's a three-way battle brewing again in the pony-car world.

Amen to that.

[CMG]

Actually back in the day...I remember first gen (70-74) Challengers cruising around with plywood and astro-turf inside them. Which along with an 8 track and some groovy bell bottoms might make for a "period appropriate" modifications.

Chris

You need a new memory. Your old one is disasterous!

The E bodies came out with the biggest plastic door panels this side of an amusment park.

[CMG]

As I said in the January Car Spotted thread, I saw the Challenger dash the other day and, while better quality than the LX sedans, it's still not worth $41,000+

I hope the Camaro's is nicer, and better designed. The design on the Challenger's is kind of boring.

I think the Camaro's interior is terrible, the pictures are on the net, take a look.

The Mustang is still gonna tromp both the Challenger AND the Camaro IMO. It's a decent package, as are all three, but the Mustang brings a better bang for the buck to the table.....

[NOS2006]

I saw the pictures. I know GM sometimes leaves out accent panels that turn an okay interior to look much better when throwing the cars on the road.. I'm hoping that to be true on these spy pics of the Camaro interior.

However, I haven't touched the Camaro interior to judge it. I touched the Challenger IP, judged it, and was upset. Plus, it took no brains to design it.

And the Mustang might be cheaper, but it really doesn't bring that much to the table. Technology, design, and quality are all kind of weak. I'm sure both the Challenger and Camaro will beat it in "bang for the buck" comparisons.

Edited January 11, 2008 by NOS2006

[Sixty8panther]

PCS: Dude your Tick-tock joke is getting so old it gets a social security check.

This has nothing to to with tick-tock, more just Chrysler being stupid,

I may not buy a Camaro because of the b-pillar but even if this car

was a hardtop I'd have no interest in the Challenger... I'd rather have

a much nicer CLK500, that has twice the glass area in the greenhose

and all four windows dissapear, makes the Challenger look like a base

fox-body mustang notchback by comparison...

[NOS2006]

PCS: Dude your Tick-tock joke is getting so old it gets a social security check.

This has nothing to to with tick-tock, more just Chrysler being stupid,

I may not buy a Camaro because of the b-pillar but even if this car

was a hardtop I'd have no interest in the Challenger... I'd rather have

a much nicer CLK500, that has twice the glass area in the greenhose

and all four windows dissapear, makes the Challenger look like a base

fox-body mustang notchback by comparison...

Sixty8: Your B-Pillar issue is getting so old they're finding artifacts of it in ancient Egyptian pyramids.

Edited January 11, 2008 by NOS2006