Automobile Magazine All-Stars

[jrockb4]

Fresh off the 3 vehicles making the 10 Best list, this will only widen your grin even more. The Corvette and tha Malibu made the Automobile Magaize All-Stars list. The triplets and the CTS made the short list of Runnerups. But it is the write up about the Malibu and the write up about the runner up Accord that will warm your heart!!

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/awar...tars/index.html All-Stars

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/awar...s_up/index.html Runner-ups

Here are some of the highlights:

Malibu - "This is the best Chevrolet family sedan I've ever driven." No, that's not from a Chevy TV ad; it was uttered spontaneously by one of our drivers after a twenty-mile thrash on challenging roads. Enough of us agree with that assessment to put the good-looking new sedan on the All-Star list with cars costing several times more. The Malibu might not be quite as good as Bob Lutz claimed after the car's Detroit show introduction, but it's not far off.

CTS - After my dream garage was duly loaded with a sports car for each day of the week, I'd make room for a CTS, the Cadillac with an itch to smite the bluebloods.

Triplets - You'll have a hard time finding a vehicle anywhere that can swallow as much stuff as the Triplets - and do it in style and comfort to boot. Forget about the complaints that their 3.6-liter V-6 isn't "up to task." That's true only if the "task" is racing a 911.

Unlike so many cars, the EnclAcadiOutlook's task is so clearly defined and so cleanly executed that it's a winner regardless of whether it's an All-Star.

But here is the greatest of them all.

Accord - This - this, this, this - this is utter baloney. Horsehockey. Junk. (I'd be more explicit, but you're reading this on a family-oriented website.) If the Honda Accord isn't the most easily electable All Star on the planet, then my name is Paris Q. Richie-Lohan-Fawcett-Majors the third. It's a good car; no, no, it's a very good car, one deserving of so much more. Leaving the Accord off Automobile Magazine's list of ten wonders of the automotive universe is like saying The Godfather is a lame little movie about some bickering Italians. It's just not right .... the Accord was able to keep up with any number of faster, ostensibly "better" cars. (I'm looking at you, Volkswagen GTI.) I don't love the Accord, but I like it a lot. And, even though I'm only one of a handful of people who voted for it, it should have been an All-Star. There. I said it. Everyone else is wrong!

The only Toyota to make either list is a Tundra on the Runner-up list.

If they can make it next year, or if the G8 and or Astra get added to the list, this may really be the start of something!!!

[vonVeezelsnider]

How many hoes did Toyota send to Automobile Magazine to get the Tundra on a Shortlist I wonder?

[SuperSport623]

i gotta say, its one hell of a time to be a GM fan!

[balthazar]

Congrats to GM- those that hang on the rags' opinion should be turning their heads by now.

The Triplets

Article aside, this still jumps out at me as Very Bad. It perpetuates the perception that "badge-engineering" is still widespread at GM and these are grille-n-badges changes on the exact same vehicle, instead of having the complete interior & exteriors all being unique. It's a fat finger pointing right back at the 'journalist' who persists in using this type of outmoded generalization, and IMO it still points to at least a perceptual bias.

Have you ever heard the altima/maxima or the camry/es called 'the Twins'?

[RJB]

I'm shocked that the Malibu made the last after I read last months short review on it in Automobile. They were pretty skeptical on it and were not totally sold. At least thats what I got from the article, and now it makes the list? Maybe they had some more seat time in the Malibu to convince them. Nonetheless GM is on a roll!!!!

Edited November 30, 2007 by RJB

[Windy-57]

Great news, now keep it up with the next Cobalt, Equinox and the all-awaited-for Camaro.

The writeup on the Tundra is troubling though. I mean, how many things need to go wrong with that truck before people start to wise up? It's not the best truck on the market...period. Yes, it's probably the best truck ever from Toyota and has closed the gap a bit, but saying this is a better truck than the F-Series, Silverado and Sierra is just dumb...unless you want a truck that snaps camshafts and has the tailgate fall off, then I can see.

[enzl]

Can we put baby Bias to bed now?

Bathy-They are triplets...they are nearly identical under the skin, and that is no bad thing when the product is EXCELLENT!

Can't win here---if they're not completely effusive with absolutely NO possible quibbles, you gys are all over the media source like a cheap suit...why not just enjoy it?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Can we put baby Bias to bed now?

Nope.. Like I said, a few months of good write-ups do not make up for the years of bias against Detroit.

Bathy-They are triplets...they are nearly identical under the skin, and that is no bad thing when the product is EXCELLENT!

That's not the point.. It's the mere reference to them as triplets... No one relates Lexi to plebian Toyotas in that manner eventhough they are SO close these days that an argument could be made to kill the Lexus division altogether.

I agree with Balthazar, the reference to the Lambdas as triplets is plain and simple.

Can't win here---if they're not completely effusive with absolutely NO possible quibbles, you gys are all over the media source like a cheap suit...why not just enjoy it?

Because it is fleeting... And deep down we all know that. Our hopes were raised when Lutz was hired only to be destroyed for the next 3 years by a media hellbent on destroying Detroit. I'm not that forgiving or ignorant.

[Satty]

The triplets takes up less space on a page than Acadia, Enclave and Outlook. Americans are too stupid to stay interested long enough to read the latter so the former goes in the article. Plus, the editors have to make the write-up fit on the page. The bias talk is, was, and will continue to be asinine.

[Drew Dowdell]

Can we put baby Bias to bed now?

Why can't we have the long, ongoing bitterness for the past mistakes of the media as the media has for the past mistakes of GM?

[ZL-1]

Why can't we have the long, ongoing bitterness for the past mistakes of the media as the media has for the past mistakes of GM?

Because we are better than they are. :AH-HA_wink:

[balthazar]

satty= >>"The triplets takes up less space on a page than Acadia, Enclave and Outlook. "<<

So, edit out 2 or 3 really bad, really overused cliche's, and type out the damn names. No one will close the magazine.

>>"The bias talk is, was, and will continue to be asinine. "<<

Have you ever heard the altima/maxima or the camry/es called 'the Twins'?

Edited December 1, 2007 by balthazar

[Satty]

The Altima and Maxima aren't twins, and every article I've read about the ES in the last few years have mentioned that its Camry based and Camry bland.

[balthazar]

>>"The Altima and Maxima aren't twins"<<

>>"they are nearly identical under the skin"<<

yet still never called "the twins". And 'camry-based' does not conjure the same dismissive perception that "twins" would, yet still they resist calling them that. Must just be a co-inky-dink.

[hyperv6]

This is good as the GM comback is going to be done one good review at a time as well as one model line at a time. GM did not fail in one year or one model.

It takes time and one step at a time. They now need to continue this with future models.

[Nick]

>>"The Altima and Maxima aren't twins"<<

>>"they are nearly identical under the skin"<<

yet still never called "the twins". And 'camry-based' does not conjure the same dismissive perception that "twins" would, yet still they resist calling them that. Must just be a co-inky-dink.

I think you're reading way too much into it.

[Mr.Krinkle]

The media really is out to get GM. They resort to praise when they realize their attempts have been foiled.

I bet they cant wait for another &#036;h&#33;ty product to harp on. Maybe one day Consumer Reports of all magazines

will turn on Toyota.

.

Because it is fleeting... And deep down we all know that. Our hopes were raised when Lutz was hired only to be destroyed for the next 3 years by a media hellbent on destroying Detroit. I'm not that forgiving or ignorant.

Funny you should use the word fleeting when talking about GM.

[balthazar]

>>"I think you're reading way too much into it. "<<

I don't. It's there, whether intentional or subconscious, and it's not entirely balanced. That's all I ask for : balance.

"Triplets" is dismissive, openly implies identicality, which is not the case in this instance. 'camry-based' is far lighter, and does not imply identicaility. The 2 scenarios are the same, but editorially treated in 2 different ways.

[Nick]

>>"I think you're reading way too much into it. "<<

I don't. It's there, whether intentional or subconscious, and it's not entirely balanced. That's all I ask for : balance.

"Triplets" is dismissive, openly implies identicality, which is not the case in this instance. 'camry-based' is far lighter, and does not imply identicaility. The 2 scenarios are the same, but editorially treated in 2 different ways.

I don't know...I think "camry-based" sounds a lot worse in my opinion...The last thing I want to hear is that my luxury sedan is based on a camry...

On the other hand, "triplets" is just a creative way of grouping the three lambdas together.

I didn't read "triplets" as a derogatory comment at all. They are three very similar vehicles mechanically, and while they may share some different sheet metal here and there (most noticeably with the enclave,) and sport different interiors, that doesn't make one more distant from another.

Would you rather have them say "fraternal triplets" instead?

[balthazar]

>>"The last thing I want to hear is that my luxury sedan is based on a camry"<<

Are you sure the last thing you'd rather not hear is that your luxury car IS a camry, ie: a camry "twin"?

We didn't ask for & we don't need 'creative cuteness' from journalists, just facts. They're supposed to be reporters, not lyricists.

>>"Would you rather have them say "fraternal triplets" instead?"<<

What I would immensely prefer is that these 3 vehicles are referred to individually and not incessantly lumped together.

ANYONE OBJECT TO THAT?

>>"they may share some different sheet metal here and there "<<

???

>>"that doesn't make one more distant from another"<<

Only as much as a camry & es are different from one another.

But of course different sheetmetal and a different interior makes 2 (or 3) vehicles 'more distant from one another'- this is the primary interface for the consumer: exterior & interior! How many buyers slide underneath their car, then slide underneath another make/model to compare?

[VenSeattle]

I'd find the least amount to criticize if the Outlook, Acadia, & Enclave were referred to as Lambda-triplets. That's more literal when attempting to summarize the relationship between the three vehicles.

[Nick]

>>"The last thing I want to hear is that my luxury sedan is based on a camry"<<

Are you sure the last thing you'd rather not hear is that your luxury car IS a camry, ie: a camry "twin"?

We didn't ask for & we don't need 'creative cuteness' from journalists, just facts. They're supposed to be reporters, not lyricists.

>>"Would you rather have them say "fraternal triplets" instead?"<<

What I would immensely prefer is that these 3 vehicles are referred to individually and not incessantly lumped together.

ANYONE OBJECT TO THAT?

>>"they may share some different sheet metal here and there "<<

???

>>"that doesn't make one more distant from another"<<

Only as much as a camry & es are different from one another.

But of course different sheetmetal and a different interior makes 2 (or 3) vehicles 'more distant from one another'- this is the primary interface for the consumer: exterior & interior! How many buyers slide underneath their car, then slide underneath another make/model to compare?

I'm just realizing that you people create your own bias to bitch about...

The lambdas get a great review in general. Why? Because all three are great vehicles. But no, we don't like that they are all lauded in the same paragraph, so let's argue about the semantics of the journalist's choice in the terms he uses for his article along with how it should have been written.

Apparently, unless it reads like it came out of the mouth of a robot it isn't a credible review.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Nick

[Chicagoland]

Some on here just need to get a life. No, the 60's are not coming back with 60% market share, and BOF RWD big cars cars are not either, but GM is doing good.

The Crossovers are really triplets, so what? They are good products. Back in the 70's GM's cars were really similar too, just the emotional attachment to the brand names "from childhood" makes some think they were all one brand from ground up.

[pow]

>>"The Altima and Maxima aren't twins"<<

>>"they are nearly identical under the skin"<<

yet still never called "the twins". And 'camry-based' does not conjure the same dismissive perception that "twins" would, yet still they resist calling them that. Must just be a co-inky-dink.

The Altima and Maxima have different wheelbases, overall lengths, widths, heights, engine outputs, and interior dimensions; hence they're not called twins.

I have no problem calling the Acadia, Outlook, and Enclave "the Lambda triplets" as together they were released as a game-changing set of CUVs from the beginning. It's the same story when GM rolled out the GMT900 SUVs - they're even more differentiated than the Lambdas, sure, but they're undeniably from the same family.

As far as ES and Camry, the Lexus occupies a different segment and price from the Toyota, through additional amenities and higher quality. The Lambdas, on the other hand, occupy the same segment and differ minimally in price, and preferences are made based on taste and personal inclination. Do you prefer a youthful Saturn, a contemporary GMC, or a traditional Buick?

If you can be bothered, some comparably-equipped Lambdas...

Lightly optioned...

Acadia SLE FWD 3SA w/ US9, PCM: $31,235

Outlook XR FWD w/ PCU, TVD: $32,335

Enclave CX FWD w/ US9, ABC: $33,475

All include:

- 18" alloys

- 8 passenger seating

- XM

- leather-wrap wheel (leather/wood on Enclave)

- wheel-mounted radio controls

- Xenon headlights (except Acadia)

- Foglights

- Auto A/C

- 10 spk 6-disc CD

- Autodimming mirror (except Acadia)

- 6 way power driver seat (8 way power on Outlook)

- 2 way power passenger seat (except Outlook)

- Homelink (except Acadia)

Pricing is nearly identical once you factor in the few differences in equipment availability (i.e. if you could add $1,100 for Xenon, Homelink, autodim on the Acadia).

Nearly fully-loaded...

Outlook XR AWD w/ UZR, C3U, U42, PCQ, PCZ, PDC, PDD, PCU, TVD, ABB, DK1: $43,550

Acadia SLT 4SB w/ UZR, C3U, U42, P64, DK1: $44,635

Enclave CXL AWD w/ UZR, PCI, C3U: $43,330

All include:

- Xenons

- heated leather

- 19" alloys

- 7 passenger seating

- 2nd row console

- navigation

- rear DVD player

- hot windshield fluid

- park assist

- remote start

- 8 way power driver seat w/ power lumbar and memory

- 4 way power passenger seat w/ power lumbar

- dual sunroofs

- power folding, driver-side dim mirrors (Outlook)

Edited December 1, 2007 by empowah

[balthazar]

>>"The lambdas get a great review in general. Why? Because all three are great vehicles. But no, we don't like that they are all lauded in the same paragraph, so let's argue about the semantics of the journalist's choice in the terms he uses for his article along with how it should have been written. Apparently, unless it reads like it came out of the mouth of a robot it isn't a credible review."<<

This approach by journalists is all you've ever read, so why question it, right? A pat on the head and everything's fine. The writer's credibility is not under attack, only his methodology.

These are subtleties & subliminals, but they DO have an effect on the reader and they are inclusive in GM's fight to change public & media perception. It's NOT merely the product that needs to work 100% here, there's more to it than that. There are still people that have sworn off domestics in general because their aunt's '79 Fairmont was a ran like crap, and having cars like the CTS & Enclave will not change that because generalities like these still persist, regardless of their validity.

>>"As far as ES and Camry, the Lexus occupies a different segment and price from the Toyota"<<

Just because toyota prices them farther apart, does not change the physicality of their 'twinness'. If the Lambdas were the same degree apart in pricing, you would not be arguing with me.

Didn't the previous altima & maxima share the exact same platforms & powertrains, ala the Lambdas? I remember reading a few comments that the altima pretty much rendered the maxima redundant.

Edited December 1, 2007 by balthazar

[frogger]

I could care less about the whole triplets thing. I'm happy about the GM vehicles being on the list, and I'm hoping vehicles well below class leaders like the G6, Cobalt etc, still too plentiful in the GM lineup are replaced with others that will be similarly well received.

Edited December 1, 2007 by frogger

[enzl]

I'm still not certain how the term 'triplets' is derogatory? Especially since its true....there is no functional difference between these 3 products. The Camry/ES argument is fine, but I do believe that most if not all ES articles reference the Camry.

Again, the sensitivities of some posters is unbelievable...you can't win. GM gets the best enthusiast press in years for product excellence and the English Professors here come out of the woodwork to pronounce their concerns.

Is there any doubt that the Good product=good press correlation is there? GM's got alot of baggage to live down...it's going to take more than a few good products and a UAW capitulation to change the press' viewpoint overnight. I'd say they're off to a good start, however.

The glass is half-full, guys. Enjoy it while you can....GM's next challenge is to figure out how they're going to make money making these good products.

[Nick]

These are subtleties & subliminals, but they DO have an effect on the reader and they are inclusive in GM's fight to change public & media perception. It's NOT merely the product that needs to work 100% here, there's more to it than that. There are still people that have sworn off domestics in general because their aunt's '79 Fairmont was a ran like crap, and having cars like the CTS & Enclave will not change that because generalities like these still persist, regardless of their validity.

There are several different types of people, but as I see it, the main groups are:

The people who buy domestic and don't need much persuasion if any to buy again.

Then there are the people who have sworn off domestic and are strictly import. Those people are going to be very, very difficult to persuade. In fact, it could be said that it is a waste of resources trying to persuade that type of person right now (granted, that may be a bit extreme.)

What is most important is getting product attention to those who are on the fence. Those who may or may not be interested in a domestic car, but haven't settled completely 100%. They can be much more easily persuaded one way or the other. Once that demographic has been achieved, then the rest will follow. You will start to see those hardcore, stubborn import buyers changing some of their previously held viewpoints, and then they will be the next to fill in the demographic of those who can be persuaded.

[CARBIZ]

While I agree that GM seems to be building some momentum here of accolades in the media, nothing has really changed. The press is still driving the LTZs and praising them, not the base cars/trucks that GM will be selling in droves. It is this type of elitism that begs to be quashed. The jaded press need to base their opinions on what the vehicle is and who it is intended for, not on whether or not the particular writer would be caught dead in one.

Things are slowly changing, it would seem, but Hyundai still gets praised because the doors don't fall off (exceeds expectations), while GM gets scrutinized because their vehicles don't walk on water, so to speak.

[Robert Hall]

While I agree that GM seems to be building some momentum here of accolades in the media, nothing has really changed. The press is still driving the LTZs and praising them, not the base cars/trucks that GM will be selling in droves. It is this type of elitism that begs to be quashed.

The press has always tested top of the line models... the base models just aren't interesting enough to talk about..

[Drew Dowdell]

While I agree that GM seems to be building some momentum here of accolades in the media, nothing has really changed. The press is still driving the LTZs and praising them, not the base cars/trucks that GM will be selling in droves. It is this type of elitism that begs to be quashed. The jaded press need to base their opinions on what the vehicle is and who it is intended for, not on whether or not the particular writer would be caught dead in one.

Things are slowly changing, it would seem, but Hyundai still gets praised because the doors don't fall off (exceeds expectations), while GM gets scrutinized because their vehicles don't walk on water, so to speak.

At least one of the malibu reviews was a 4cylinder LT with the 6-speed.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm just realizing that you people create your own bias to bitch about...

The lambdas get a great review in general. Why? Because all three are great vehicles. But no, we don't like that they are all lauded in the same paragraph, so let's argue about the semantics of the journalist's choice in the terms he uses for his article along with how it should have been written.

We're just nitpicky (You know, like the media is with Detroit)

I'll break it down for you the way I see it. The biggest problem Detroit has to overcome now is perception. One of the horrible perceptions of Detroit is that they have multiple divisions with the exact same product. And this perception is well earned after the years of identical, except for the trim -n- badge, cars and trucks. However, now that Detroit has platforms with distinct vehicles, often even more distinct than their imported competitors, the perception still remains and is still promoted that Detroit only badge engineers.

This issue is critical because Detroit, especially GM, is trying very hard to build unique identities for each of it's divisions. So, the bias remains and the argument is still valid. Now, is it overt bias or unintentional? Who knows, but the fact still remains that GM is treated differently/more negatively than the imports in the media.

Apparently, unless it reads like it came out of the mouth of a robot it isn't a credible review.

I would agree with that in some ways. I certainly don't read car reviews or car news for stupid quibs or smart assed remarks (Like especially Car and Driver and Motor Trend seem to think) If I wanted girlish gossip or whining, I'd read fashion or entertainment magazines.

[balthazar]

>>"Again, the sensitivities of some posters is unbelievable...you can't win. GM gets the best enthusiast press in years for product excellence and the English Professors here come out of the woodwork to pronounce their concerns."<<

Oh, I'm sorry, missed the memo; I did not realize we (General Motors) were done and it was time to sit back and relax. After all, the collective ingrained perceptions will disappear like cigarette smoke in a stiff breeze after but a few months of good reviews on 5 models. Halleluia and Yay- we made it !!! It's the '65 Comeback Tour !!!

FOG & CARBIZ see the bigger picture, but a bunch of you other people seem to think 'good is good enough (now let's get back to our monthly allotment of 'interesting' BMW road tests)'.