Hypothetically Speaking...

[Cory Wolfe]

As the title says, this is mostly hypothetical... as in, if by some rare streak of luck I am able to afford to purchase a decent vehicle. Basically, I'm looking for suggestions/ideas/opinions.

I want something that's reliable, economical, easy to live with, and fun. To start, I want suggestions that hold true. Anyone can make a case in favor of a, say... Sunfire or Blazer... Doesn't mean they're worthy of purchasing. Reputations beyond what a few GM enthusiasts think should be taken into consideration. The same goes for any manufacturer. I don't want any 'blinded by bias' suggestions. Personal experience is another thing. It's probably the most telling and most diverse matter. As long as you keep away from J-bodies, S10's, and anything powered by a Quad4, the latter part won't need to come into play. Listing the pros and cons of vehicle suggestions would be helpful as well.

Currently, I'm seriously looking into Miatas. They're not the most winter friendly vehicle, but neither is the Beast. As far as I know, they don't have any reliability problems. Thoughts?

Any Suggestions?

Edited November 29, 2007 by blackviper8891

[vonVeezelsnider]

From what I hear, they're pretty reliable... but where you live you might want the hardtop one... not the ragtop .

[PurdueGuy]

you haven't actually defined what you need the vehicle to do. Just A to B with you and a few small items? Occasionally one passenger? More? Want to be able to haul stuff from the home depot for projects? Drive across country, or just across town? You mentioned snow... how much, and how well does it get cleared?

[FAPTurbo]

Miata's are useless.

Just spend cash on the Millenia which has a trunk, and a back seat.

[Cory Wolfe]

Miata's are useless.

Just spend cash on the Millenia which has a trunk, and a back seat.

It's a moot point, as I'm putting money into it whether I decide to keep or sell it.

you haven't actually defined what you need the vehicle to do. Just A to B with you and a few small items? Occasionally one passenger? More? Want to be able to haul stuff from the home depot for projects? Drive across country, or just across town? You mentioned snow... how much, and how well does it get cleared?

None of that matters much in this hypothetical situation... Reliability and economy are what I'm mostly looking for, but in a fun/sporty package. All other matters come down to personal preference. If I'm considering a Miata, however, that should answer your question as to the needs of the vehicle. The most passengers I'm going to carry is one, the biggest cargo I'm going to haul is a single duffel bag, and I'll drive it mostly around here with a few trips. As per the snow... Generally, it's nothing that your ordinary FWD compact can't drive through.

I'm obviously not mistaking it for a large luxury SUV, guys, I'm quite aware of their size and capabilities.

Edited November 29, 2007 by blackviper8891

[PurdueGuy]

Sounds like you've fallen in love with the miata, and have decided it meets your needs. As long as you aren't like a few people I've known (I have no idea if you are or not) and are shaping your car needs in your mind to fit the car you've decided you want. Most people could use a little more room than that for their only vehicle (which I'm assuming this would be) for the occasional errand that takes up more than the space of a small duffel bag.

So, if it truely meets your needs, the miata could be fun, and I've never heard any horror stories about its reliability. Just be sure - there are some other great small coupes and convertibles that would also be high on the fun factor & a little higher on the utility factor.

[ocnblu]

Miatas are cool and I'm sure, fun, but small, and I'm not sure how they are in snow. Do they have open differentials, or posi? I'd suggest a Civic coupe or hatch if it was owned by an adult (double-wishbone handling and Honda reliability), or perhaps a Saturn S-series coupe. The only thing I've heard negative about the S-series cars is, some of them burn oil. I'm sure PerdueGuy can give the lowdown on S-series longterm reliability.

A security and maintenance concern with any convertible is the top. If you get a Miata, make sure the top is in good shape or you'll have another expense right away. Other than that, I don't know of anything negative about the Miata... I guess you've been to Miata owner forums to check for mechanical issues.

Edited November 29, 2007 by ocnblu

[vonVeezelsnider]

Have you considered the N-Body Malibu... Low mileage V6 units can be had for cheap and they are JD Power's Best Pick for Reliability in the Midsize car class.

[A Horse With No Name]

WWW.miatanet.com is your friend. If you get a first generation car beware of the short crank issue on 90/91 cars. If you get a 99 model beware of a main bearing problem with some of these cars.

Really decent cars and one will probably be my njext automotive purchase....I'd rather buy a Cooper S However I can buy a great used Miata for $4500-8500 and a decent used Cooper S will set me back at least 15 grand...but that's beside the point.

Make shure you unzip the rear window if you put down the top. The interior is a little dark and gloomy with the top up and they do have a nice blind spt with the top up. They make a replacement convertible top with a larger rear window area if you don't like the blind spot, but expect to pay for a top and an install (prob 600-800 to get it done right ) if you want this.

Watch for rust around the rocker panels on older first gen cars. Easily fixed, but a problem none the less.

Good luck and keep us posted. The Miata is one of the coolest cars of the last 20 years IMHO. You might also check out WWW.Specmiata.com for info on the Miata only racing series run by the SCCA nad NASA. Also, there is a pro series called the MX5-Cup that runs current generation Miatas.

Also, check the timing belt. Needs done every 60,000 miles, might as well do the water pump when you do this. It is about a $450 service if you pay someone. All Mzda motors are non-interference so you won't destroy the motor if it breaks, but the car will stop moving.

Glad to have at least one other Miata lover here.

Chris

[toesuf94]

A Miata would be fun...watch the top as they said before...also make sure the car was not flogged to near death and needing a clutch NOW or some other mega repair upon purchase. That goes for every used car so no big deal.

Boy, to go from Miata to something else...not a lot of options. How do you feel about f-body's since you like RWD? They can be picked up cheap with a V6 and are actually pretty damned good in the snow ( I have owned three ) Drivetrains are dead honest and reliable, and I can say they would fare better in a wreck than a Miata. T-tops are a throwback to another decade, and are kinda fun. You can pluck a decent V6 or V8 1990 - 2002 anywhere from 1500 - 4500 for a non abused unit. Hell I still find really nice 1986's for next to nothing and they are like new!

Your Cutlass is also a great car with a little bit of work. Probably not the fuel miser you are wanting though.

[Sixty8panther]

I'd drive a Miata in the winter... blizzaks & common sense are all you need.

But that's me, you have to figure out weather your skills in the snow, RWD

or otherwise, are going to outweigh the frustration of the Miata's super-low

ground clearance & lack of practicality. Even though the Miata is a much

better car to work on than the Millenia parts might get expensive, and you

have a habit of throwing in the towl quickly. This might be a bad combo. if

you buy ANOTHER car before you ever sell your other Mazda moneypit.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Sixty8panther

[Drew Dowdell]

I'd drive a Miata in the winter... blizzaks & common sense are all you need.

Well that's two strikes against the Miata then....but seriously.

get an old civic inside of your price range. once you start earning more money then aim for the miata or the 318i.

I know you won't take most of our advice, but a W-body would suit you just fine for now. They're reasonable on gas, very reliable with the 3800, terrible resale so you can pick one up cheap, relatively inexpensive to repair, and reasonably safe. Perhaps something like a 1994 Cutlass Supreme Convertible or a Pontiac GrandPrix coupe

[Brougham-Holiday]

1986-1999 Pontac Bonneville,Buick LeSabre,Oldsmobile 88. All powered by the 3800 SeriesI/ II V6 and the Pontiac/Olds can have the supercharger. I've had one of each and can say they should be looked at as a benchmark for quality. The H body cars are full size comfort and prices can range from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand depending of condition and options. Oldsmobile dont hold their value well, so they can be a bargain. Buicks and Pontiacs did hold their value so expect to pay a little more. I think the Supercharged 88 LSS is the best of the bunch with its combination of luxury and power.

[Cory Wolfe]

Sounds like you've fallen in love with the miata, and have decided it meets your needs. As long as you aren't like a few people I've known (I have no idea if you are or not) and are shaping your car needs in your mind to fit the car you've decided you want. Most people could use a little more room than that for their only vehicle (which I'm assuming this would be) for the occasional errand that takes up more than the space of a small duffel bag.

So, if it truely meets your needs, the miata could be fun, and I've never heard any horror stories about its reliability. Just be sure - there are some other great small coupes and convertibles that would also be high on the fun factor & a little higher on the utility factor.

Nah... In the year and a half that I've owned my Millenia, on only one occasion did I use the rear seat for purposes other than... well, stuff. As well, on only one occasion did I ever use the trunk to its full capability and that was when I went camping at the Homecoming. In previous years, I hauled all my stuff with my ATV, so I'm quite good at getting around issues like that.

I'm still open to suggestions, that was the point of the thread, not just to make a case for the Miata. If you have a vehicle in mind that you think matches my simple criteria, post away.

A Miata would be fun...watch the top as they said before...also make sure the car was not flogged to near death and needing a clutch NOW or some other mega repair upon purchase. That goes for every used car so no big deal.

Boy, to go from Miata to something else...not a lot of options. How do you feel about f-body's since you like RWD? They can be picked up cheap with a V6 and are actually pretty damned good in the snow ( I have owned three ) Drivetrains are dead honest and reliable, and I can say they would fare better in a wreck than a Miata. T-tops are a throwback to another decade, and are kinda fun. You can pluck a decent V6 or V8 1990 - 2002 anywhere from 1500 - 4500 for a non abused unit. Hell I still find really nice 1986's for next to nothing and they are like new!

Your Cutlass is also a great car with a little bit of work. Probably not the fuel miser you are wanting though.

I'm keeping my options wide option. A lot of vehicles can be reliable, economical, and still fun/sporty. Doesn't have to be a tiny roadster like the Miata or an outright sports car. An F-body could work, but I'm not sure about the gas mileage, even with the V6. I'm looking for something that can breach 30 mpg, or atleast come very close to it. Like with Miatas, though, I'd have to find one that wasn't abused or driven hard... not an even task considering the type of vehicle they are.

As for the Cutlass, that's the thing... I need a car that requires little to no work that I can drive every day without worry. The Cutlass hasn't delivered.

I'd drive a Miata in the winter... blizzaks & common sense are all you need.

But that's me, you have to figure out weather your skills in the snow, RWD

or otherwise, are going to outweigh the frustration of the Miata's super-low

ground clearance & lack of practicality. Even though the Miata is a much

better car to work on than the Millenia parts might get expensive, and you

have a habit of throwing in the towl quickly. This might be a bad combo. if

you buy ANOTHER car before you ever sell your other Mazda moneypit.

The difference is.. I had no job when I was driving the Millenia. Even the slightest of costs were an issue. To be honest, and I've stated this before, it wasn't a money pit. The bulk of the needed costs are with things that wear and needed replaced for inspection purposes. Tires, brakes, etc. The Distributor was a minor cost in comparison. The inspection running out was a big reason why I parked it for good. If you call that a money pit, I'd like to know you call your own vehicles.

Well that's two strikes against the Miata then....but seriously.

get an old civic inside of your price range. once you start earning more money then aim for the miata or the 318i.

I know you won't take most of our advice, but a W-body would suit you just fine for now. They're reasonable on gas, very reliable with the 3800, terrible resale so you can pick one up cheap, relatively inexpensive to repair, and reasonably safe. Perhaps something like a 1994 Cutlass Supreme Convertible or a Pontiac GrandPrix coupe

As I said, I'm open to any suggestions as long as they meet my simple criteria. I'd drive a W-body, even, if I thought it was going to be reliable. They're a mixed bag from my experiences, I've heard good things and bad things about them. Some seem reliable while others just fall apart. Abuse plays alot into it, I would suspect. As well, the newer ones are more reliable and possibly out of my price range. A nice 97 Grand Prix would probably suit me well, but I've never found one around here for less than $5k. Not to mention, I'd really enjoy a manual transmission, not something that survived in W-bodys, but also not something I couldn't live without. Edited November 29, 2007 by blackviper8891

[z28luvr01]

The difference is.. I had no job when I was driving the Millenia. Even the slightest of costs were an issue. To be honest, and I've stated this before, it wasn't a money pit. The bulk of the needed costs are with things that wear and needed replaced for inspection purposes. Tires, brakes, etc. The Distributor was a minor cost in comparison. The inspection running out was a big reason why I parked it for good. If you call that a money pit, I'd like to know you call your own vehicles.

You're going to have those expenses no matter what car you own. Tires, brakes, fluids, etc. go bad after a while and need to be changed, and it isn't the fault of the car. That's no reason to dump the car. I think the cheapest solution for you is to get the Millenia in passable condition and just drive that into the ground - you'll get at least another year or two out of it with the mileage you drive - while saving up for a nice down payment on the car you really want. Keep the Cutlass as a background project that eventually turns into a weekend fun car.

As I said, I'm open to any suggestions as long as they meet my simple criteria. I'd drive a W-body, even, if I thought it was going to be reliable. They're a mixed bag from my experiences, I've heard good things and bad things about them. Some seem reliable while others just fall apart. Abuse plays alot into it, I would suspect. As well, the newer ones are more reliable and possibly out of my price range. A nice 97 Grand Prix would probably suit me well, but I've never found one around here for less than $5k. Not to mention, I'd really enjoy a manual transmission, not something that survived in W-bodys, but also not something I couldn't live without.

If you really want another car, I second the W-body, especially the 3800-powered ones. They're pretty reliable, and when they do break they're easy to fix. Your best chance of avoiding abuse would be to look into a Regal LS or maybe an early Intrigue. An Impala would work too, but I just don't see you in one.

Whatever you decide, good luck

[Drew Dowdell]

As well, the newer ones are more reliable and possibly out of my price range. A nice 97 Grand Prix would probably suit me well, but I've never found one around here for less than $5k. Not to mention, I'd really enjoy a manual transmission, not something that survived in W-bodys, but also not something I couldn't live without.

That's kinda why I recommend the Cutlass. Manual was available, but rare. Might be hard to find, but not impossible. Just stay away from the 3.4 DOHC, it's a good engine as long as you luv it long time, but it's pricey to repair. Take a look at that Cutlass I linked you to for $3995. It's the 3.1 and automatic, but it's a red convertible and will likely be fairly reliable. Mine lasted at least till 160k before I traded it on the CTS... and that was with the 3.4 DOHC.

Stick with a 3800 and you'll probably be ok. Yes there were some bad ones out there, but they've been mostly weeded out by now. The 3.1 is ok, but it's a bit of a slug in these cars.

Point of advice. If you do get a W-body, and it's a coupe with the vertical door handles, start junkyard shopping for another pair ASAP. It wasn't a bad design, but the handles were made out of pot metal and can snap fairly easily. Worst case scenario you can still get the full mechanism from the dealer for about $125. I've spotted them on Ebay too.

It's not hard to replace the handle on your own with very basic tools.

[Cory Wolfe]

You're going to have those expenses no matter what car you own. Tires, brakes, fluids, etc. go bad after a while and need to be changed, and it isn't the fault of the car. That's no reason to dump the car. I think the cheapest solution for you is to get the Millenia in passable condition and just drive that into the ground - you'll get at least another year or two out of it with the mileage you drive - while saving up for a nice down payment on the car you really want. Keep the Cutlass as a background project that eventually turns into a weekend fun car.

If you really want another car, I second the W-body, especially the 3800-powered ones. They're pretty reliable, and when they do break they're easy to fix. Your best chance of avoiding abuse would be to look into a Regal LS or maybe an early Intrigue. An Impala would work too, but I just don't see you in one.

Whatever you decide, good luck

Heh, I'm not the one who blamed my Millenia... C&Ger's did.

My only issue was with the lack of a job at the time, not the car. I just couldn't afford to do anything with it. Right now, I just want something refreshing. The Cutlass got old very quickly with its neverending issues and the Millenia has been with me for a year and a half, through thick and thin. Both of them don't get great gas mileage either. The former's is absolutely pathetic and the latter's would be decent if I didn't need to pay for premium. I know it'll be a good car to me if I keep it, but with 175k, I can't expect the perfection I want. It's probably an unrealistic want no matter the vehicle, but I'd like to come close. I don't want to have to worry about things breaking and going wrong like with the Cutlass.

There still is a 50% chance I'll keep the Millenia, but that doesn't necessarily mean it won't share the driveway with something new.

[Sixty8panther]

Well, as far as my cars being moneypits, let's see:

B-59: bought in April, 2007.

I've spent about $400 total on it other than purchase price.

That includes repairs, fluid changes & some cosmetic stuff.

Now I've driven the B-59 about 6K miles in the past 7

months and I'm not all that gentle with it. Granted those

long overdue radial tires will set me back $200 or so even

for a cheap set, after mounting/balancing.

The Mercedes has yet to need any repairs, despite that I

have spent a hundred bucks or so on it, Julie was annoyed

at the lack of a right hand side mirror & no vanity mirrors,

got those off a 300TD at the Junkyard & I also bought

a hood ornament for it.

As far as the Datsun... it's been two and a half years,

durring which time the Maxima took a 1 year long nap in

the carport.... having been started only once every three

or so months. So that's 18 months or so of it on the road,

all together having been driven about 28,000 miles &

counting. I bought the car for $300, & I have not invested

much into it, again even fluid changes included it might be

about $500. So I'm still well under a thousand bucks.

You try buying a Fleetwood Brougham, Firebird or a $h!ty

old Datsun and drive it for over a year, racking up hard

miles without spending $1K and you'll be in great shape.

Keep in mind that means having to roll up your sleeves

every few weeks and doing your own maintenance &

repairs, including the messy stuff like chaning rear end

gear oil & scapping nasty old valvecover gaskets with a

razorblade, and I don't have a garage to make it less

of a pain in the ass in December when it's 25* outside

or give me shelter when it's pouring cats & dogs but a

serpentine belt needs replacing.

If I had a nice, warm, dry garage to keep my car in &

work on my car at I'd be daily driving a 1930s car.

[toesuf94]

Of course prior ownership and care is going to play a huge factor in the reliability of ANY car.

Others that I have thought of that could be fun to own:

A good condition WRX Subie.

Honda Civic Si.

VW GTI

VW Corrado G60

BMW 318Ti (or any old BMW 3-er)

Mercedes Kompressor Hatchback (Funky safe!)

Pontiac Aztek in the pea green metalic - Nobody would steel it

[Cory Wolfe]

Well, as far as my cars being moneypits, let's see:

You try buying a Fleetwood Brougham, Firebird or a $h!ty

old Datsun and drive it for over a year, racking up hard

miles without spending $1K and you'll be in great shape.

Keep in mind that means having to roll up your sleeves

every few weeks and doing your own maintenance &

repairs, including the messy stuff like chaning rear end

gear oil & scapping nasty old valvecover gaskets with a

razorblade, and I don't have a garage to make it less

of a pain in the ass in December when it's 25* outside

or give me shelter when it's pouring cats & dogs but a

serpentine belt needs replacing.

If I had a nice, warm, dry garage to keep my car in &

work on my car at I'd be daily driving a 1930s car.

My point was, the bulk of what my Millenia needs were things that every car needs at one point or another. The distributor was only one issue and I always quoted brand new parts when I estimated how much it would cost to get it back on the road. I'm sure I used cheap junkyard parts like you, I could spend less than $400 fixing the Millenia. Therein, lies the difference, and thus, calling it a money pit is wholly false. Edited November 29, 2007 by blackviper8891

[Drew Dowdell]

Have you gotten the Cutlass tuned up and a carb adjustment yet? Even a 307 should be good for 23-25 highway if you're not racing it.

[Sixty8panther]

Then get the part you need on eBay or save up for it and get that car back on the

road, THEN once it's fixed throw it on craiglist, get cash for it and THEN move on.

That's logical, makes financial sense.

[Cory Wolfe]

Have you gotten the Cutlass tuned up and a carb adjustment yet? Even a 307 should be good for 23-25 highway if you're not racing it.

The best I ever got was 15, driving like a little old lady, when it was running fine. It's getting about 10 right now. Adjusting the mixture is out of the question and adjusting the idle isn't going to help much. The carburetor and the car itself has much bigger problems that tuning it up isn't going to solve. Even then, it isn't going to magically net me a 15 mpg improvement. 23-25 is a huge pipe dream.

Then get the part you need on eBay or save up for it and get that car back on the

road, THEN once it's fixed throw it on craiglist, get cash for it and THEN move on.

That's logical, makes financial sense.

That's the plan.

Besides, this is supposed to be a hypothetical thing, let's leave the Millenia and the Cutlass out of it. Those cars are irrelevant to this discussion.

Edited November 29, 2007 by blackviper8891

[Drew Dowdell]

Hmm, I was able to do 21 in an 85 Toronado with the 307 @ 65.

have you released the parking brake?

edit: Oh wait. Does the Cutlass have a 4-speed or 3-speed? My Toro had a rebuilt 4-speed with overdrive.

Edited November 29, 2007 by Oldsmoboi

[A Horse With No Name]

Well that's two strikes against the Miata then....but seriously.

get an old civic inside of your price range. once you start earning more money then aim for the miata or the 318i.

I know you won't take most of our advice, but a W-body would suit you just fine for now. They're reasonable on gas, very reliable with the 3800, terrible resale so you can pick one up cheap, relatively inexpensive to repair, and reasonably safe. Perhaps something like a 1994 Cutlass Supreme Convertible or a Pontiac GrandPrix coupe

We have a Cutlass Supreme ragtop like that as a pace car at the Columbus Motor Speedway. Every time I see that thing I want it in my garage.

W body makes a great car, only problem is that here in Ohio quite a fewof them have started to rust, just like everything else on the road.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

The whole Cutlass MPG thing seems strange to me. I had a 78 with a 307 and a 4V carbv and I got 23 on the highway, easy.

I had an 80 later when we were married with a 260 and it got between 15 and 18 in town.

10 means that there is something wrong.

Chris

[Sixty8panther]

When I owned the Banana Boat (1977 Cadillac Coupe deVille) I got a real

world 13+ mpg... half city half highway. That's with a bigger, longer,

heavier car, and the four barrell carb was feeding 425 cubic inches! That's

seven liters of '70s iron block motor. And more than once I lit up the rear

tires at intersections, other times I'd cruise at 80+ on the highway.

XP has gotten as much as 16 with the Banana, so your car WILL do low

20s if you just LISTEN to the people here who know these things from

experience. A G-body's architecture gives up HUNDREDS of pounds to

the Cadillac I'm mentioning. As a matter of fact the G-bodys were THE

lightest body-on-frame cars EVER made by GM, the Malibu was the

lightest of the G-bodys, your Cutlass has a few lbs. on it.

[Intrepidation]

Let's see...

I have long wanted a 300ZX...those cars looks excellent, drive well, look nice inside, and are plenty wuick. Of course they aren't good in the rain or snow, but I still love them Dunno if they are your cup of tea or how their reliability is though.

There's also 3000GTs which had AWD and looks great too. Both cars can be had with a metal roof, something which is an asset in the snow belt. Plsu you can find soem great deals on them. Again, I know nothing of their reliability though. 3000GTs are really snug though.

Miata sounds like a fun little car, as long as you don't need much space or much practicality, which I suppose you could use one of your parents cars or the Cutlass for if that's still around if you needed the utility.

non-riced Civics are not a bad choice either. The mid to late 90's models were bland but pleasant looking cars. I must admit I've had a strange attraction for the previous gen coupe. I doubt I'd ever go and buy one, and it's certainly not visually exciting, but the other day I came to realize the coupes have very nice, almost RWD proportions. My friend's sister had some bad luck with her's though...

Corollas and Prizms are a step up from the J-Bodies and first gen Neons, in terms of refinement, and interior design and materials for the most part. However they do have cheap bits like the interior and exterior door handles, which have a habit of braking. The 1.6L is notorious for exhaust manifold cracks, which are expensive new but you can find ones in the junkyard that are inexpensive and work well if it were to happen. Besides that the engines are very reliable and trouble free in my experience and those of others. Normally transmissions aren't supposed to be an issue (I would think anyway), although ours had to be replaced due to bad gear synchronizer.

Shadows I would probably not recommend unless you find one with low miles and the head gasket has been replaced already. I'd avoid any V6 models, but the 2.2 Turbos are a blast to drive, and they are very practical...probably not your cup of tea though. Reliability is an issue with them, although ours has soldiered on to 213k and counting.

I have no problems suggesting 2nd gen LH models. The first gens had iffy quality but, besides the notorious 2.7, the 2nd gens have good reliability. From personal experience, I've only had 2 problems out of the ordinary that had to be replaced, the fuel pump gasket and the oil sending switch. There was the stalling issue, but that was the fault of the AAA guy who improperly put the air filter intake back on...was fixed at no cost to me (junkyard let me have a new clamp for free). The engine itself burns some oil, likely due to the fact that it has 190,000 miles on it (no blue smoke though). I believe I will need to change the timing chains, as it is about that time to do so, and that is an expensive ordeal, but that just how it is when buying an already high mileage car. Besides that I've replaced the serpentine belt before that Tulsa road trip and a few light bulbs, that's it. LH cars handle very well and are very sporty. They drive like smaller cars, are fun to drive, get good fuel economy (I've gotten 29 on the highway), great sound systems, and are extremely practical. I'd go with a 3.2 or 3.5 V6 since they have none of the problems the 2.7 is known for and plus the transmission programming is tuned to be more sporty. I've had zero problems with the original transmission. Oh and I've put 17,000 miles on it since buying it. The other nice thing is that there's plenty of LH's to choose from (Concorde, LHS, and 300M) with different suspension tuning, exterior and interiors. Plus, they've got what I think are some of the best interiors Chrysler has done. LHS and 300M models have really nice leather seats. They were available with lots of features like 6-disc CD-changer, NAV system, auto-lights and so on. Ok I've talked enough about them. Nice thing about them is that they share common parts, so you could start cheap and aquire parts for it to make it more lxurious (300M seats, automatic climate control, cd-changer, NAV, etc.).

2nd gen Neons aren't a bad choice, people I know who own them have had no problems with them. An SRT-4 would be a blast.

3rd and 4th gen Camaros are a possible idea too. They're fast and they look great, although like most cars from the era their interiors sucked and I have no idea about reliability.

How about a Dustbuster? You'd be stylin' yo

Edited November 29, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Sixty8panther]

DF:

Are you crazy dude? The 3000GT is one of the biggest moneypits made since the

Triumph TR7... can't imagine why... what with Mitsubishi designing an FW-biased

AWD system mated to a TRANSVERSE mounted 32-vlave V6, 4-wheel steering &

to top it all off TWO turbochargers!

Now that's great point-a-to-b transportation.

For the record SpeedingPenguin's brother is in the middle of a Dodge Stealth RT

rebuild. He bought it cheap and has a garage & more importaintly the know how

as well as the dedication to pull it apart & put it back together without leftover

pieces all while affording the replacement parts.

Just seeing the wiring harness apart the other day made me sick to my stomach.

If you want cheap & affordable a 3rd gen. Camaro or 5-oh Mustang are the way

to go, not some overglorified, needlessly-complex Japanese Cluster-fu*k-Rocket.

[Cory Wolfe]

Hmm, I was able to do 21 in an 85 Toronado with the 307 @ 65.

have you released the parking brake?

edit: Oh wait. Does the Cutlass have a 4-speed or 3-speed? My Toro had a rebuilt 4-speed with overdrive.

The ever pleasant 3-speed.

10 means that there is something wrong.

Chris

No... You don't say?!

As I said, this car has bigger issues than what adjusting the carburetor will solve. Never ending dieseling, impossible cold-engine running, plumes of black/gray smoke from the exhuast, especially when the engine is cold and even more so when accelerating, an odd rattling noise when accelerating, the check engine light that seems to go on and off at will, and yes, it's getting 10 mpg. Diagnose away... but keep it out of this topic! Back to suggesting, bitches!

[vonVeezelsnider]

How about a Dustbuster? You'd be stylin' yo

Sign Me Up!

[daves87rs]

Dustbusters!

[Intrepidation]

Vroom Vroom, DustBuster FTW

[vonVeezelsnider]

Vroom Vroom, DustBuster FTW

That's Right. 3800 + Composite Body + Low Drag Coefficient = Vroom Vroom Indeed

Ours was just like this one :AH-HA_wink:

Edited November 30, 2007 by vonVeezelsnider

[Intrepidation]

That's Right. 3800 + Composite Body + Low Drag Coefficient = Vroom Vroom Indeed

Ours was just like this one :AH-HA_wink:

My uncle had one..I wonder what happened to it...I don't see very many these days.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I'm gonna second WMJ on this one... The Cutlass Ciera and Pre 1996 Buick Century are like tanks... Reliable like you wouldn't believe... Just get one with a V6 and Airbags and you won't be disappointed.

[ocnblu]

How about a Focus 3 door, the newest one you can afford comfortably.

[A Horse With No Name]

DF:

Are you crazy dude? The 3000GT is one of the biggest moneypits made since the

Triumph TR7... can't imagine why... what with Mitsubishi designing an FW-biased

AWD system mated to a TRANSVERSE mounted 32-vlave V6, 4-wheel steering &

to top it all off TWO turbochargers!

Now that's great point-a-to-b transportation.

For the record SpeedingPenguin's brother is in the middle of a Dodge Stealth RT

rebuild. He bought it cheap and has a garage & more importaintly the know how

as well as the dedication to pull it apart & put it back together without leftover

pieces all while affording the replacement parts.

Just seeing the wiring harness apart the other day made me sick to my stomach.

If you want cheap & affordable a 3rd gen. Camaro or 5-oh Mustang are the way

to go, not some overglorified, needlessly-complex Japanese Cluster-fu*k-Rocket.

I agree 100 percent plus. I like Japanese cars probably more than most here but I would never own a 3000 GT or a Stealth.

These cars even when pristine are a pretty much $80 a ton proposition at ACE Iron and Scrap for me.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I'm gonna second WMJ on this one... The Cutlass Ciera and Pre 1996 Buick Century are like tanks... Reliable like you wouldn't believe... Just get one with a V6 and Airbags and you won't be disappointed.

I'll third it.

Chris

[Intrepidation]

I'm guessing he wants something that at least tries to give the impression of beings somewhat sporty.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Dodgefan

[A Horse With No Name]

Sorry to keep posting here, don't mean to overpost...but...what do you want this car to do? You have no cash to put into it once you get it...your probably not going to race it or autocross it or anything...you've got the Millinia....what do you want a car to do?

I can second the Z-28 or Mustang thing, but remember that Gas may well go to $4.00 plus per gallon, and your not really a CEO at this point....

The older W body Cutlass thing has me thinking pleasant thoughts, but there are lots of abused 15 year old cars out there so be careful...

The Rear wheel drive Cutlass/Monte is where I would put my money. We have a customer we do electrical work for and he buys and sells cars on the side. He says the hottest car on the bottom end of the market right now is the older RWD Cutlass/Monte.

Look at it this way....with that platform the car can do whatever you want. Drag car, Low Rider, boulevard cruiser, full custom, nice stocker for a sunday driver, dirt track stock car, short track stock car, whatever you want these cars do it all.

This is the one platform that you can afford right now that will go up in value (probably) be affordable to restore/modify, etc.

Good, solid cars can still be found for under two grand if you look, and I have a friend that buys and sells the mid 80's Monte SS cars if you need help finding the right car.

Plus these cars can be made into great freeway cruisers. With the right shocks and tires they ride well on long trips.

I still like the idea of a Miata, but look at it this way...

A friend of mine who is into Porsche' says that any Porsche is a 20 thousand dollar car once it is finally sorted.

Any Miata once it is really sorted out and everything is right is probably honestly a 5,000-6,000 car min, although you can buy a decent starting point for $3500-$4500 like I said.

Were I to be you I'd be looking for a better Cutlass or a Monte.

As for newer, I actually like Dodgefan's Idea of a Second gen Neon. reliable, roomy, really decent handeling car, won't ride quite as well as the Cutlass/Monte but will like to turn much better.

Or just become a Porn Star and buy that Viper after all.

Chris

Edited December 1, 2007 by 66Stang

[Cory Wolfe]

Sorry to keep posting here, don't mean to overpost...but...what do you want this car to do? You have no cash to put into it once you get it...your probably not going to race it or autocross it or anything...you've got the Millinia....what do you want a car to do?

The Rear wheel drive Cutlass/Monte is where I would put my money. We have a customer we do electrical work for and he buys and sells cars on the side. He says the hottest car on the bottom end of the market right now is the older RWD Cutlass/Monte.

Chris

Two words: Fuel Economy. Any and all V8s are out of the question.

Basically, this car needs to be a daily driver that won't have little reliability issues, will get 30+ mpg, but won't be a total bore to drive. V8s, elderly editions, trucks/SUVs, vehicles older than 15-16 years old, etc are pretty much out of the equation.

[Drew Dowdell]

then you're SOL

[ocnblu]

So many nice G-body coupes are being donked... a horrible fate, imo.

Really, Viper, a Civic, SC2, or Focus would be fun to drive, and, if properly maintained by the previous owners, should be relatively worry-free. The Miata would be a sweet car to have, too, they just have a few more maintenance issues that could surface. Insurance premiums are also something to worry about for a young man. You have to weigh the risks and make the choice on your own when the time comes, however... because, judging by the Cutlass, you will remind us that we gave you bad advice if something goes wrong. :AH-HA_wink:

[ocnblu]

Hehe, the only curves on that whole car are the wheel arches...

[Camino LS6]

Well, just how much will you be spending on your lightly-used Hypothetical?

My knee-jerk answer is a late-model F-body (even the V8s can get very close to 30mpg or better).

However, your insurance may jump to a level that doesn't work for you. And, I just don't see you being comfortable in anything but a really small car.

So I'm not really making any suggestions until you give me some more specifics on budget and how you expect to be using whatever you get over the next few years.

BTW: I wish you lived nearby so I could fix that damn carb in the Cutlass and stop your badmouthing it! Yes, the carb is the problem.

[§carlet §wordfish]

I know you won't care, but our 2000 Sunfire has been flawless in the 7 years we've had it.

Other than that I have no advice to give as I am even less informed than you.

[Cory Wolfe]

then you're SOL

Well, I'll be glad to have anything that's atleast on par with my Millenia, reliability wise. One or two minor issues a year is much better than 4 or 5 issues in a single month.

Really, Viper, a Civic, SC2, or Focus would be fun to drive, and, if properly maintained by the previous owners, should be relatively worry-free. The Miata would be a sweet car to have, too, they just have a few more maintenance issues that could surface. Insurance premiums are also something to worry about for a young man. You have to weigh the risks and make the choice on your own when the time comes, however... because, judging by the Cutlass, you will remind us that we gave you bad advice if something goes wrong. :AH-HA_wink:

True. I'd drive either three.

Well, just how much will you be spending on your lightly-used Hypothetical?

My knee-jerk answer is a late-model F-body (even the V8s can get very close to 30mpg or better).

However, your insurance may jump to a level that doesn't work for you. And, I just don't see you being comfortable in anything but a really small car.

So I'm not really making any suggestions until you give me some more specifics on budget and how you expect to be using whatever you get over the next few years.

BTW: I wish you lived nearby so I could fix that damn carb in the Cutlass and stop your badmouthing it! Yes, the carb is the problem.

$3-$6k, ideally.

My uses will mostly be limited to driving alone, to and from work, relatives, school in the future, etc. Size isn't entirely on my mind. The Cutlass and Millenia are about as big as I would own, though. I dont really need a much size. I'm only 5'6", I drive alone 99% of the time, and rarely use the trunk or back seat of a car. The smallest of vehicles will work for me, but I'm not necessarilly only considering smaller cars. The Miata is just one car I have on my mind. I don't quite have my heart set on it any more than I had my heart set on a 240SX or BMW 3er or any other car I've had random moments of lust for.

I know you won't care, but our 2000 Sunfire has been flawless in the 7 years we've had it.

Other than that I have no advice to give as I am even less informed than you.

You know... As long as it was a 2003+ with the Ecotec, it'd beat the hell out of the Cutlass.

[Camino LS6]

OK, now I can think about what to suggest.

[DetroitNut90]

Have you considered a Taurus? Granted, they're not the most stylish sedans, but I was (and still am) able to find excellent deals on later-model, average mileage Tauruses. Before I bought my Intrigue, I was considering an '01 SES with 74K mi. for $4990. I suppose their resale values are so low because most of them are ex-rentals that Hertz doesn't want anymore.