Malibu...Oh Malibu, where art Thou?

[Cory Wolfe]

MAP: never gets your car broken into, never breaks/malfunctions, nearly impossible to distract the driver (reading/navigating a map takes far too much concentration), no one bugs you to borrow it. Oh, and it costs a few bucks, not a few thousand bucks. Da Winnah.

Map: Takes up space, can be ruined easily, impossible to use while driving, difficult use without another person, and gives you a limited geographical range, without zoom, without worldwide coverage... to get that would be impossible and just as expensive. Map what?

[ocnblu]

Nav is like having a DVD screen in the steering wheel, playing your favorite movie. Wait, isn't that what the steering wheel is for? It's not? It's for driving the gosh durn car? OMG!

[thegriffon]

Map: Takes up space, can be ruined easily, impossible to use while driving, difficult use without another person…

That's what significant others are for. Why else would you put up with them?

[RBB]

Map: Takes up space, can be ruined easily, impossible to use while driving, difficult use without another person…

That's what significant others are for. Why else would you put up with them?

Well, significant others do take up space and can be ruined easily, but with some skill can be used while driving, and some enjoy using them with another person. But other peoples' lifestyle choices are no business of mine...

-RBB

Edited December 26, 2007 by RBB

[CARBIZ]

This 'debate' has fallen largely into two camps: the twenty-somethings that think ANY technology is great, even if they can't afford the cars they are in, and the ELDERS who have seen so many USELESS technologies come and go ( 8-tracks, laser discs, beta to name a few) and have heard it all before. (Guess which camp I am in )

Nobody is going to buy or not buy a Malibu because it maybe, possibly for $2k more could have a DVD nav system. The kids that (think they) want it, won't buy a Malibu anyway, and the people in the true snack bracket that can afford to piss away $2k on something they might use twice a year, also won't buy a Malibu. The turn by turn is way cool and addresses the few who must have every gadget to impress their friends, without costing a fortune because it can be cancelled when the novelty (inevitably) wears off.

[bowtie_dude]

I can't believe people argue against navigation systems with the argument "Use a map."

So you're arguing that a windshield-sized piece of parchment that I have to constantly refer to in order to make sure I'm going where I'm suppose to be going is less obtrusive and safer than a small device that takes 2 minutes of input and will tell me where and when to turn without any further instructions? Not to mention it has millions of points of interest stored for quick reference, multiple destination routing, automatic rerouting for missed turns and, in the new HDD Navigation in vehicles, has a built-in MP3 management system that can rip CDs.

OK, old men, whatever you say.

Edited December 26, 2007 by bowtie_dude

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm not arguing against the use of a NAV. I'm arguing that the lack of NAV as an option will not harm Malibu sales in any significant way.

[SuperSport623]

thats why DDing an old car is great.. when i get in a car with power steering, i feel spoiled!Navigation? Mapquest for me... lol

im just an old soul

[bowtie_dude]

Of course GPS navs don't always cost $2k. Y ou can buy a portable GPS nav for $200, or less if you find a deal. My TomTom was $120.

Edited December 26, 2007 by bowtie_dude

[bowtie_dude]

I'm not arguing against the use of a NAV. I'm arguing that the lack of NAV as an option will not harm Malibu sales in any significant way.

I was referring to balthazar.

You and I have had this argument before.

[CARBIZ]

I can't believe people argue against navigation systems with the argument "Use a map."

So you're arguing that a windshield-sized piece of parchment that I have to constantly refer to in order to make sure I'm going where I'm suppose to be going is less obtrusive and safer than a small device that takes 2 minutes of input and will tell me where and when to turn without any further instructions? Not to mention it has millions of points of interest stored for quick reference, multiple destination routing, automatic rerouting for missed turns and, in the new HDD Navigation in vehicles, has a built-in MP3 management system that can rip CDs.

OK, old men, whatever you say.

Actually, I don't even have a map in my car. If I go to a place once, I can find it again - even ten years later. Christmas Day my brother-in-law was amazed that I could find my way back to a Conservation area he and my sister were at with the dogs after I left them there to get my partner at the subway station. I was puzzled at first, because I take for granted that being shown a place once is enough.

If I am going somewhere new, I look it up on mapquest on my home or office computer first, commit it to memory (or print it, if a little confusing) and off I go. Even when I was in L.A. a couple months ago, I would glance at a map before we left the hotel and commit our route to memory. Am I special? No, but my father used to take me for trips to the middle of nowhere when I was a kid and make me find our way back to the highway without the use of a map. Just instinct and gut feeling. That is something the younger generations are not learning by becoming too dependent on technologly. Spell checkers and blackberrys are turning us into a nation of idiots.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm the same as Carbiz.

After about 1/2 a day, I was finding my way around Köln with ease...... my excuse for the first 1/2 a day is jetlag.

[Camino LS6]

Mapquest is easy and free, and the best option.

I like to know where I'm going before I go, and thus have a sense of my location, direction, and destination in my mind during the trip. Because of always having done this, I have a great sense of direction and am never really "lost". I'll never have to worry that some failure of a nav system will leave me stranded - I use my mind to get where I'm going.

I will never choose Onstar nor NAV voluntarily. If I can't avoid getting it in a car because of option bundling it will go unused, and in the case of Onstar, will not be renewed when the free year expires.

I don't need this crap and don't want to pay for it.

[RBB]

Actually, I don't even have a map in my car. If I go to a place once, I can find it again - even ten years later. Christmas Day my brother-in-law was amazed that I could find my way back to a Conservation area he and my sister were at with the dogs after I left them there to get my partner at the subway station. I was puzzled at first, because I take for granted that being shown a place once is enough.

I'd say you're decidedly in the minority, then.

Spell checkers and blackberrys are turning us into a nation of idiots.

They're not helping, I admit. But there were plenty of idiots on the road before these things, too. And I'd rather not have them trying to read a map while driving.

Mapquest is easy and free, and the best option.

I like to know where I'm going before I go, and thus have a sense of my location, direction, and destination in my mind during the trip. Because of always having done this, I have a great sense of direction and am never really "lost". I'll never have to worry that some failure of a nav system will leave me stranded - I use my mind to get where I'm going.

And what if you don't have a plan on where you're going before you leave? Or what if you're out and you get a call asking you to go someplace unfamiliar?

I will never choose Onstar nor NAV voluntarily. If I can't avoid getting it in a car because of option bundling it will go unused, and in the case of Onstar, will not be renewed when the free year expires.

I don't need this crap and don't want to pay for it.

That's absolutely your right. Thats why most of the time these items are 'options'. But there is a segment of the buying public that wants these things, and when you're a company that's trying to attract customers that in the recent past wouldn't consider a domestic product if you gave it to them, alienating a section of that group that wants Navigation because you don't want to pay for it is a poor business decision.

-RBB

Edited December 27, 2007 by RBB

[Camino LS6]

I'd say you're decidedly in the minority, then.

They're not helping, I admit. But there were plenty of idiots on the road before these things, too. And I'd rather not have them trying to read a map while driving.

And what if you don't have a plan on where you're going before you leave? Or what if you're out and you get a call asking you to go someplace unfamiliar?

That's absolutely your right. Thats why most of the time these items are 'options'. But there is a segment of the buying public that wants these things, and when you're a company that's trying to attract customers that in the recent past wouldn't consider a domestic product if you gave it to them, alienating a section of that group that wants Navigation because you don't want to pay for it is a poor business decision.

-RBB

I always have a plan before I leave.

If I got such a call, I would then plan that leg of the trip.

Having this junk available as an option is fine with me - if there is a return on the investment to do so.

[Cory Wolfe]

This 'debate' has fallen largely into two camps: the twenty-somethings that think ANY technology is great, even if they can't afford the cars they are in, and the ELDERS who have seen so many USELESS technologies come and go ( 8-tracks, laser discs, beta to name a few) and have heard it all before. (Guess which camp I am in )

Nobody is going to buy or not buy a Malibu because it maybe, possibly for $2k more could have a DVD nav system. The kids that (think they) want it, won't buy a Malibu anyway, and the people in the true snack bracket that can afford to piss away $2k on something they might use twice a year, also won't buy a Malibu. The turn by turn is way cool and addresses the few who must have every gadget to impress their friends, without costing a fortune because it can be cancelled when the novelty (inevitably) wears off.

Technologies don't come and go... They are refined and improved when they are replaced with a better technology. 8-tracks -> Cassettes -> CDs -> MP3s, for example. Since it first became available in the early 90s, popularity of navigation has only been rapidly increasing. The demand for such hasn't weened. There is a reason it went from being offered in $100k luxury sedans to being available in $20k compacts.

On a side note, off-topic, you're no better than the ones you're speaking out against. I love how the young are always wrong and are always cited for thinking they know everything... but, look at yourself. You're not giving opposing opinions the light of day. You know you're right no matter how flawed your argument is. That's called thinking you know everything while hiding behind your age because it you believe it justifies it. Grow up. You're more immature than some of those twenty-somethings. I'm sick of the hypocrisy that spews from "elders" like you.

?

That's absolutely your right. Thats why most of the time these items are 'options'. But there is a segment of the buying public that wants these things, and when you're a company that's trying to attract customers that in the recent past wouldn't consider a domestic product if you gave it to them, alienating a section of that group that wants Navigation because you don't want to pay for it is a poor business decision.

-RBB

Finally.. Someone else who can use their brain and does so.

As I've said before... Offering it > Not offering it, regardless of your opinion on it. There is a market for these things whether you personally approve of it, or not.

[Camino LS6]

Keyword: option

[bowtie_dude]

Keyword: option

Thank you.

[Cory Wolfe]

Keyword: option

Yes. Let us continue to use our brains... Soon enough this debate will be over.

[RBB]

Like it or not, this is a part of your potential customer base:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22398348/

Looking for cool tech when buying a car

For some, what’s on the dash is more important than what’s under the hood

When the author went looking for new wheels loaded with tech, she narrowed her search to three contenders: the Honda CR-V (pictured), the Nissan Rogue and the Toyota RAV4.

By Athima Chansanchai

MSNBC

updated 10:01 a.m. CT, Wed., Dec. 26, 2007

For someone who hasn’t had a new car in more than a decade, opening a door without a key is a big deal.

So you can imagine my gushing at some of the interior amenities available on new cars, which I went shopping for in this last week before 2008 to take advantage of some tax benefits — and because it’s time I rolled in some new wheels.

My Honda Accord is a little over a decade old and back in its day, it had all the latest features — a really kick-ass V6 engine, sunroof, cruise control, power steering/windows/locks/driver’s seat adjustments — but it still had only a tape deck standard. This was, after all, back when Bill Clinton was still president and “Beavis and Butthead” had made the jump from MTV to the big screen.

I suppressed oohs and aahs as my eyes ate up some features that are standard — or hard-to-resist options — nowadays: MP3 ports (some hidden inside center consoles big enough to hold LP’s), bluetooth-enabled technology and audio controls on steering wheels, voice-activated song and artist selections, in-dash GPS systems and satellite radio. The chrome and plastic accents and trims that seem to be the standard in most mid-priced and economy lines give off a future fantastic feel to interiors that appeal to drivers looking for clean lines and design aesthetics that compliment the technology.

My needs started out simply. I wanted an all-wheel drive or four-wheel drive small/compact SUV (why does that still sound like an oxymoron?) I could plug my iPod into and automatic transmission. Then the other things I’d gotten used to figured into my decision: a sunroof, power windows and locks, a nice stereo system.

Of course, when you test drive or when you look into the showroom model, it’s the one with all the bells and whistles, including a very popular feature — leather, heated seats and dual climate controls (available on all three models that were serious contenders for my money: the Nissan Rogue, the Toyota RAV4 and the Honda CR-V). The “butt-warmers” are completely indulgent; it’s not as though your ass hasn’t been as cold as the rest of you during winter, but it is a nice way to get toasty fast.

One feature that seems to be pretty common-place: 6-CD stereo systems. Do people still listen to CDs in cars? I guess so. I was thoroughly corrected by a friend who still appreciates liner notes, lyrics and having that solid disc in her hands, so this kind of perk is still going to get the thumbs up from drivers.

For me, the steering wheel will become the focal point of many technological advantages. I see one clear benefit: it’ll keep me from having to look over to the center dash to change stations/adjust volume levels, keeping my hands and eyes where they should be. The wheel also has the Bluetooth built-in and for the Rogue, it can be programmed to up to five phones.

For those inclined to wait until the last minute before oil changes (count me in) the CR-V has a digital readout that keeps track of the car’s oil, down to the percentage point. It will alert you when you’re close. Like other vehicles, it also calculates instant fuel economy to gauge the mileage on different routes.

A fuel economy gauge is clearly an extra, at least for me, as is the remote start. But for those who regularly shovel out their cars, the idea of stepping into a warm and defrosted car in the morning on the way to work is like a little bit of spring shining into the dark.

When I become a mom, I’m thinking I’ll be looking for the perks that now come with current vehicles: in-headrest screens or the screen that folds into the ceiling and wireless headsets (the better for parents not to be driven insane on car trips by repeated airings of “Blues Clues” or similar kid favorite), rear camera (the very family friendly Honda Odyssey has one) and pre-crash systems (maximizing safety and least damage to you and the car in the event danger is imminent, including automatically closing windows).

Then there are features out there that fall in 007 territory, but they’re also for those in that much higher pay grade, which would fit those elite spies that do a lot of product placement. The Mercedes-Benz S-class allows its drivers to access a hard drive via a memory slot, to store music and other information. It also has a COMMAND control center that acts similarly to a mouse in the center console to control the LCD screen in the central dash. Very, very comfy and something to aspire to, living this kind of plush convenience. Hopefully by the time I get my next car after this one, wrapping driving life around a central screen will be a standard.

While the Lexus LS 460 boasts a self-parking feature (if you believe the parallel parking commercial), the device is not exclusive to the higher end, being also available on eco-favorite hybrid Toyota Prius.

Night vision is another one of those spy-like features that allow drivers to get better sightlines beyond their headlights. Caddies started it and 007-favorite BMWs (as well as Lexus and Mercedes) project what’s out there onto interior screens.

When it came down to it, I realized that I would be susceptible to a souped up interior that had everything at my fingertips — at a price I could afford. Spy cars, unfortunately, are not within that range, however much they incite me to drool. Knowing this, Nissan offers a premium package that bundles these things: Bose stereo system, 3-month XM satellite radio trial, speed sensitive audio volume, Bluetooth hands-free phone system and paddle shifters on the steering wheel that simulate manual transmission, allowing the car to go into six gears without ever using a clutch.

One of my friends said the interior I chose — black and red cloth — reminds her of a “Star Trek” look, and while this car will be leaps and bounds above the technology of my current car, it’s not at that almost sci-fi level yet. But it’s a really, really good start.

So in the new year, I’m going to be getting much more than a car that I can open without a key and I’m going to love it. It’s going to be nice living in 2008 and spending my time in a vehicle that not only looks it, but acts like it too, outside and in.

Now, DigiGirl may be an idiot when it comes to cars, as the above evinces, but her money spends just as well and she's clearly drawn to cars that have toys in them. Something tells me she she wouldn't consider the Malibu's interior one that 'lives in 2008'.

-RBB

[Camino LS6]

Ugh.

Her priorities make me want to puke.

[The O.C.]

I'm not arguing against the use of a NAV. I'm arguing that the lack of NAV as an option will not harm Malibu sales in any significant way.

I think it's a lot bigger picture than just the <stick in your appropriate sales penetration number> number of Nav Malibus they would sell.....I think it points to GM and Chevy as being a leader in the marketplace and offering technology and systems that the consumers (and YOUNG people) actually like to see....not just what GM thinks is "good" such as OnStar "turn-by-turn" navigation, etc.

The "lack of NAV" might not harm Malibu sales.....you are right.........but the AVAILABILITY of Nav might actually help to a small extent.....and certainly would do no harm....?

In another thread, we all saw that the new Honda Fit ($15k - $16k??) will offer Navigation......and a surprising number of Civics (EX models that is) that I see on the Honda dealer lot have navigation!!!!

[Drew Dowdell]

This is what happens when you rely on NAV.