Styling trend question

[Camino LS6]

Is there a reason for the trailing edge of front fenders ending high on the A pillar in recent car designs?

Aerodynamics maybe?

If it is merely styling-related, what do you folks think of it?

I'll keep my opinion to myself for now.

[ocnblu]

Hmm... I know beltlines are getting higher... are you referring to fenders that end even with the beltline, or above?

[Drew Dowdell]

Pedestrian impact regs. The hood has to be higher up off the engine.

[Camino LS6]

Hmm... I know beltlines are getting higher... are you referring to fenders that end even with the beltline, or above?

Above, as in on the A pillar.

[z28luvr01]

Like this?

[Camino LS6]

That's a mild example,

More like this:

[pow]

It helps outward visibility for the side windows.

[Camino LS6]

It helps outward visibility for the side windows.

How so?

[balthazar]

I wonder if the creepage is more a desire to affect the styling more than previously possible. Not that the last gen Camaro's fenders ended so high- but I'm still reminded of them in regards to this & their faired-in sideviews.

I know it catches my eye and I personally find it disturbing, as minor as it is. Also makes me think the roof AND the windshield might retract.

>>"It helps outward visibility for the side windows."<<

<<"...trailing edge of front fenders ending high on the A pillar..."<<

Edited November 20, 2007 by balthazar

[Camino LS6]

Pedestrian impact regs. The hood has to be higher up off the engine.

But the cutline of the fender is much higher than the hood, I'm still puzzled.

[Camino LS6]

I wonder if the creepage is more a desire to affect the styling more than previously possible. Not that the last gen Camaro's fenders ended so high- but I'm still reminded of them in regards to this & their faired-in sideviews.

I know it catches my eye and I personally find it disturbing, as minor as it is. Also makes me think the roof AND the windshield might retract.

Exactly my train of thought.

[pow]

How so?

Cause usually it's found on cars with forward-sloping beltlines, which I assume give a greater sensation of airiness for front passengers

[Camino LS6]

I guess I just don't see that, empowah.

[balthazar]

The seam could still be even with the rear edge of the hood on the G8, but for some reason, it's numerous inches higher. Either location does not effect the visibility in the G8.

Overall G8 vs. M-B A-pillar design/shape is another issue.

[Camino LS6]

Exactly, so there has to be another reason.

[balthazar]

Unless something comes to light that makes more sense, I'm sticking with it offering more latitude in styling differences.

[Camino LS6]

I can only guess that it might :

- slightly improve aerodynamics

- slightly reduce wind noise

[Robert Hall]

That's one thing I noticed in the pics of the MKS...the fenders and hood seem to be pretty high off the ground and they meet the A-pillar pretty high...

[Camino LS6]

If it is merely styling, then I can't say I care for it. The 4th gen Camaro faired-in side mirrors were one of the things that pointed me to the Firehawk instead back in 02. This seems to be in that vein.

Edit: that high fender/ rear of the hood thing on the Camaro always made the front look like a ramp to me.

[K.C.]

I just thought it was an aerodynamics thing. On some cars with huge panel gaps, it looks tacky.

[mustang84]

This can be found on older cars from the 80s and 90s...it's on my Lumina, although not quite as evident as today's cars (there's no beltline crease, but the greenhouse is lower than the fender line). I always thought Luminas would look better if the belt line continued uninterrupted, but it does give you more visibility out of the greenhouse I guess.

You can see it on older Mustangs, but it seems to work on them IMO.

I really don't think there is much value to it other than it being another runaway styling trend that every automaker seems to copy...just like triangular taillights were all the rage 2 years ago

Edited November 20, 2007 by mustang84

[SuperSport623]

that mustang is HOT

sorry i have nothing useful to contribute to the thread...

[Flybrian]

Just more evidence that more cars need to look like this...

[Camino LS6]

The Mustang and Lumina really don't have it, their A pillars look entire. The G8, on the other hand, has a cutline that is way up the pillar and interrupts the flow of the design.

Yeah, it's a detail, but it isn't a plus stylewise so I'm hoping there is a functional reason for it.

[the_yellow_dart]

Mustang - that's not what he's talking about. He's talking about how the fender is slowly creeping up the A-pillar.

The last-generation J-body convertible gets the award for 'Worst A-pillar' though.

Why are all the cut lines bunched like that? I've never seen anything like it on other convertibles. What gives?

[Sixty8panther]

I'm also thinking safety & aerodynamics, 90% of the time it does not

bother me but u have defiantely also noticed this strange trend.

There are a few cars on wehich it looks HORRIBLE.

[Sixty8panther]

On a side note, have I mentioned how ugly and disproportionate modern cars look?

(the G8 is pretty nice though)

[balthazar]

I don't think we're all on the same page here yet. Another pic:

Camino is not questioning the beltline vs/ fenderline, but the rising location of the SEAM between the fender panel & the A-pillar. Traditionally, it has just about always been aligned with the rear edge of the hood but look where it is on the G8.

[mustang84]

Ahh, I see what you guys are talking about now.

[Camino LS6]

Wow!

It seems my powers of explanation suck.

Now that we are all on the same page, opinions?

[siegen]

New Sentra is worst offender imo:

Just more evidence that more cars need to look like this...

Sad jellybeans? :AH-HA_wink:

[Drew Dowdell]

Sad jellybeans? :AH-HA_wink:

[Cory Wolfe]

Just more evidence that more cars need to look like this...

Who needs that when you can have this?

Sad jellybeans? :AH-HA_wink:

Haha... Fly is going to get you. Hide!

[pow]

I don't think we're all on the same page here yet. Another pic:

Camino is not questioning the beltline vs/ fenderline, but the rising location of the SEAM between the fender panel & the A-pillar. Traditionally, it has just about always been aligned with the rear edge of the hood but look where it is on the G8.

Ahh. Perhaps because the base of the A-pillar is so thick, particularly from the side view, the designers didn't want such a lengthy cutline. Or maybe they didn't want the seam so close to the hood cutline or the beltline crease, for fear of cluttering things up.

That's one of the things that always irked me about the 3 sedan...

If the seam were slightly higher on the A-pillar, the transition between hood and A-pillar would be smoother. It also looks awkward because it's so close to the front door cutlne.

[balthazar]

>>"Wow! It seems my powers of explanation suck."<<

I knew what you meant, buddy. :wink:

OPINION: the G8's location, for example, catches my eye. Again, it's minor, but seams should NEVER catch your eye, IMO- they are compromises; imperfections. The current styling trend of highlighting them flat sucks.

I'd prefer the G8's seam to either extend straight off the hood line then angle downward to the beltline/window corner, or... it's be really clean if it was up by the top of the windshield. It's just in a really unconventional spot where it is, but for the 3rd time, it's really minor in the overall scheme of things.

The Sunfire convert & the 3-series pictured above are both pretty bad here.

>>"Who needs that when you can have this? "<<

Talk about a generic jellybean...

[Cory Wolfe]

>>"Who needs that when you can have this? "<<

Talk about a generic jellybean...

Too bad it's neither generic nor a jellybean.

[Camino LS6]

>>"Wow! It seems my powers of explanation suck."<<

I knew what you meant, buddy. :wink:

OPINION: the G8's location, for example, catches my eye. Again, it's minor, but seams should NEVER catch your eye, IMO- they are compromises; imperfections. The current styling trend of highlighting them flat sucks.

I'd prefer the G8's seam to either extend straight off the hood line then angle downward to the beltline/window corner, or... it's be really clean if it was up by the top of the windshield. It's just in a really unconventional spot where it is, but for the 3rd time, it's really minor in the overall scheme of things.

The Sunfire convert & the 3-series pictured above are both pretty bad here.

>>"Who needs that when you can have this? "<<

Talk about a generic jellybean...

Thanks, and I agree on all points.

[Oracle of Delphi]

It may be a case of improved safety, look how thick that A pillar is. You have to remember that this car was designed to be exported to the world; however the world has different and varying safety standards. The beltline could have been raised to allow these safety features to work at optimum performance.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Camino LS6]

It may be a case of improved safety, look how thick that A pillar is. You have to remember that this car was designed to be exported to the world; however the world has different and varying safety standards. The beltline could have been raised to allow these safety features to work at optimum performance.

I was just thinking about how this might perform in a front-end collision. I can see where it might force the fender to "ride" the A pillar, forcing the fender up, out , and away from the door, reducing the chances of jamming the door shut.

Might be a bit of a stretch, but I could see it working.

[balthazar]

>>"Too bad it's neither generic nor a jellybean. "<<

Too bad it so completely is. How very sad for you.

>>"I was just thinking about how this might perform in a front-end collision. I can see where it might force the fender to "ride" the A pillar, forcing the fender up, out , and away from the door, reducing the chances of jamming the door shut."<<

I did think about that. I'm no crash safety engineer, but I don't see that. There's enough tumblehome in any car that the tip of the fender is not likely to compromise the door opening nearly as much as the entire vertical trailing edge of the fender; the tip, regardless of where it ends, should deform outside of the upper door as opposed to against it, but predicting what happens in all crash circumstances is only 2 notches below predicting the Pick 6. The traditional ending point should also 'ride the A-pillar', no?

>>"The beltline could have been raised to allow these safety features to work at optimum performance."<<

The 'beltline' is the bottom of the side glass, which is stylistically independant of front crash requirements and the top edge of the front fenders.

Edited November 21, 2007 by balthazar

[Cory Wolfe]

>>"Too bad it's neither generic nor a jellybean. "<<

Too bad it so completely is. How very sad for you.

It's less of a jellybean than any GM sedan sold from 1995-2002 and no more generic than any Buick of time. Since we're on the topic of Holden's, it's also less generic and much less of a jellybean than the GTO most of us love. If you consider that the Millenia's design originated 8 years earlier than the Monaro's (1993 compared to 2001), it's really not that sad for me. Sir, that is, thus, check... and... mate.