GM readies new round of incentives

[Chris_Doane]

.... Edited October 14, 2006 by CD/BP

[Newbiewar]

While dealers report that some new GM products, such as the Hummer H3 and Chevrolet HHR, are runaway hits, retail sales of GM cars and trucks were down 57% in the first nine days of October, compared to the same period of 2004, the Power Information Network, headquartered in Westlake Village, Calif., reported Friday.

one must remember in september 04, atleast to my fellow salesmans recolection there was the introduction to 72 months 0% financing... september and october of last year were blow out months, just like june and july... but no one has any 05's left... inventorys are filling back up... but still with running hits like the HHR... people cant find the one they want...

all we have right now are lame rebates... sure rebates are discounts... but they arent exciting... Toyota is "Keeping you moving" well at least trying to, while we are offering "you pay what we pay"... advertising must occur and it doesnt need to have any money involved in it... Money talk belongs in the box, at the dealer... not over the radio or on billboards... thats when it shows desperation...

when a salesman starts talking price out on the lot... hes either stupid, or hes getting desperate, he wants your buisness, and is willing to cut his throat for it...

incentives must be the product... you remember when AOL would give you a 200-300$ discount if you purchased a 2 year contract when you bought you computer... do you see the post office offering sales on stamps?(hope thats a good example)

[thegriffon]

If that's all they are offering then either they are not that desperate or they have run out of money. If you go through the sales model by model, Yiou don't really see the need for big incentives. I think mostly they are just short of product, just enough not to be concerned. A new engine for the 305s and new product next year should keep things humming. My concern will be how much the Cobalt and Malibu suffer once the new Camry, and the big new Corolla and Sentra arrive. Hopefully the new Ion will adopt the longer platform of the new Vectra to match them. Combining the Malibu and Epica should be a Priority. Edited October 15, 2005 by thegriffon

[Matt276]

Being third for the month behind Toyota and Ford in retail sales, GM has to do something. Rebates, here we go again. Value pricing does not work.

[Dsuupr]

It's going to be painful, but they do need to shift away from incentives. As GM slowly comes out with gotta haves it will become easier to move away from gotta discounts. The problem is when they introduce the car with the discount before letting the public determine if the car needs a discount to sell.

[CARBIZ]

This negative advertising doesn't help. It is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Customers smell blood in the water and will circle for the kill. Dealers often become their own worst enemy. They need to hold price and not worry that the customer will shop them. Of course the customer will shop! So what! Right now, customes are just testing the waters, seeing if GM is serious about the end of employee pricing. GM had better hold the line or we will lose any semblance of credibility.

[Newbiewar]

This negative advertising doesn't help.  It is becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Customers smell blood in the water and will circle for the kill.  Dealers often become their own worst enemy.  They need to hold price and not worry that the customer will shop them.  Of course the customer will shop!  So what!  Right now, customes are just testing the waters, seeing if GM is serious about the end of employee pricing.
GM had better hold the line or we will lose any semblance of credibility.

[post="29202"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

but if in one month GM isnt #1 in america... what will happen after that?

GM is pushing to sell probably around 4 million this year... they cant stop now...

[CadillacCTS]

Value Pricing was never meant to affect 2006 SUV's and Trucks. I dont have a problem with GM adding incentives to vehicles that are starting to be replaced in 2 months. You won't see incentives on vehicles like the HHR or Solstice, simply because they sell themselves. Once GM has the GMT-900s out they will sell themselves too and won't require incentives. I look at this as GM cleaning out their old product to make way for the new. Edited October 15, 2005 by CadillacCTS

[regfootball]

a. the value pricing was a scam. if you look, the MSRP's are up across the board for most decently optioned models. b. the dealers still have no product. most losts still look vacant. c. gas prices are still casuing doubt in consumers whether they should buy a small car or get another large car. d. the economy is still in a lull e. neither GM nor Ford seem to be advertising anymore. f. Ford I know has some big time lease incentive programs going on now too g. the most important thing...new product, even with all the new GM products this year, they still are not bringing out new and improved products to replace their old clunkers fast enough. GM should be doubling the pace of their newest products. Edited October 15, 2005 by regfootball

[turbo200]

The sale is not that drastic, here are its major points: Under the new program, customers: •Who already lease a GM product will be able to get out of their contracts, expiring between Nov. 1 and April 30, as much as six months early this month. •Will be offered a $500 gas card with the purchase of a 2006 mid- or full-sized SUV. •Will get another $500 in rebates for 2006 full-sized pickups such as the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra. That brings the total to about $3,000 for some versions of the pickups. What's more, interest rates have been dropped to 1.9% up to 36 months, 2.9% for 48 months, 3.9% for 60 months and 4.9% for 72 months. Unlike in the past, consumers will be able to choose one or the other -- a cash rebate or a low-interest rate -- but not both. •Zero-percent financing, according to the company's Web site, also remains available on a wide variety of outgoing 2005 vehicles. And rebates up to $6,000 are available on vehicles such as the Chevrolet Suburban. Nothing new, and notice you can't combine interest offers with cash back offers, that's something that's been done in more desperate times. It seems like incentives for bigger trucks and the last of the '05's, which there are probably 10 floating around there.

[turbo200]

If that's all they are offering then either they are not that desperate or they have run out of money. If you go through the sales model by model, Yiou don't really see the need for big incentives. I think mostly they are just short of product, just enough not to be concerned. A new engine for the 305s and new product next year should keep things humming. My concern will be how much the Cobalt and Malibu suffer once the new Camry, and the big new Corolla and Sentra arrive. Hopefully the new Ion will adopt the longer platform of the new Vectra to match them. Combining the Malibu and Epica should be a Priority.

[post="29171"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

griffon, do you think that is possible for the Ion to be on the new Vectra's platform, SWB Epsilon?

[Cory Wolfe]

My concern will be how much the Cobalt and Malibu suffer once the new Camry, and the big new Corolla and Sentra arrive. Hopefully the new Ion will adopt the longer platform of the new Vectra to match them. Combining the Malibu and Epica should be a Priority.

griffon, do you think that is possible for the Ion to be on the new Vectra's platform, SWB Epsilon?

I still don't understand why everything is getting so big. It's ridiculous. The Cobalt already dwarfs my Grand Am, which is so wrong, IMO. Not only that, they are getting heavier and heavier. It's really fucked up...

[Imaj]

No problem, just don't continue incentives when the new GMT900 are on sale..

[turbo200]

I don't know that he meant the Corolla will actually increase in size, but if that's what h meant, then you are right that is crazy. The Corolla, to me, is already almost like a midsize car, I mean I think it has just as much interior space as an old Malibu. It's freakin huge inside, and a wonderful deal just because of that, imo, though I'm not certain how it compares, I know the Cobalt isn't nearly as big as it is, on the inside.

[sciguy_0504]

How big are you, turbie? LMAO...j/k. Sorry, I had to, it was calling my name. If GM is putting incentives on the vehicles they will be replacing shortly I have no problem with but I thought employee pricing left dealers with little so why are we (again) trying to get cars off lots? We should start to cry if GM puts large incentives on its new offerings. A HHR, for example, should have nothing except a good interest rate or less than $500 on the hood. Not both and nothing more. I honestly think GM would be doing itself a favor if it cut back almost all incentives on its new models even if they're not selling well. That way you weed out the bad product, improve it and advertise the hell out of it so it sells itself.

[CaddyXLR-V]

The Chevy dealer I went to had a $5000 markup on their 1 new HHR, and also their 1 used HHR. They said they sell within 3 days.

[thegriffon]

griffon, do you think that is possible for the Ion to be on the new Vectra's platform, SWB Epsilon?

[post="29254"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Which new Vectra? Epsilon will probably be ruled out on a cost basis, although there is already considerable overlap between the Astra and Epsilon platforms (2614-2703 mm, 2675-2852 mm), and a 4-cylinder Malibu is not that much more expensive than a Cobalt. Ford/Mazda, Mitsubishi/Chrysler, Honda and Toyota are all consolidating ther C-, D- and E-segment platforms as the standard for the C-segment increases.

C-segment (sedan) 4200-4600 mm
D-segment 4400-4800 mm
E-segment 4600-5000 mm

Modern C-segment vehicles are rapidly increasing in size, so that there is little difference between a European C-segment sedan and the smallest D-segment sedans as sold in Japan. European D-segment sedans are approching the upper limit of the segment (with the exception of the Opel Vectra), but wheelbase hasn't yet caught up due to pedestrian-safety regulations. With few exceptions like the G6 and Galant and premium sedans such as the LaCrosse, Azera and Maxima, the more diverse E-segment usually shares a similar range of wheelbases with the D-segment. Rwd sport sedans in these classes are in different clusters.

GM's North American vehicles are not a good indicator of the market. For many years they have not hit the sweetspot for their nominal market segments, with insufficient updates.

Look at, for example, the Corolla.

In the early '80s the E8 and E9 Corolla/Sprinter shared a 2430 mm wheelbase with the L2 Corsa and Tercel (indeed the Sprinter wagon was even badged as a Tercel in some markets), with the E9 Sprinter barely squeezing into the C-segment. The Nissan Sunny and Pulsar and Mazda Familia (323) were similar.

The T15 and T17 Corona/Carina were at this time C-segment sedans on a wheelbase of just 2525 mm, While the V1 and V2 generation Camry/Vista used a 2600 mm wheelbase in the bottom half of the D-segment (from roughly 4400 mm for the V1 and
4520 mm for the V2). (T16, T18 and T20 were the coupes, including the Celica/Corona, and hardtop versions of the Corona/Carina)

In the '90s the E10 and E11 Sprinter Corolla moved firmly into the C-segment with a new 2465 mm platform, while the T19 and T21 Corona/Carina moved to a 2580 mm wheelbase and (back) into the bottom of the D-segment vacated by the V3 Camry/Vista, now firmly in the E-segment at just over 4600 mm). The V3 was joined by the E-segment V1 Windom (ES300) and later US-market V1 Camry with a longer 2620 mm wheelbase, wider body not quite 4800 mm long. The V4 Camry/Vista grew slightly longer with a new 2650 mm wheelbase, while the V2 Windom and Camry followed shortly after with a 2670 mm version, joined in the mid-'90s by the stretched 2720 mm wheelbase X1 Avalon.

As we approach the turn of the millenium Toyota purges its lineup. The E12 Corolla moves up dramatically with a 2600 mm wheelbase shared with the T23 Celica, and a standard length of just under 4400 mm. A longer version just over 4500 mm replaces the Sprinter but only in some overseas markets (such as the US) where it was badged as a Corolla anyway. The T24 moves closer to 4600 mm, with a new 2700 mm wheelbase and the Corona and Carina are renamed Premio and Allion (the larger T22 and T25 Avensis replaced the Carina in Europe). The V5 Vista was the last of its series, on the new 2700 mm wheelbase, replaced by the imported T25 Avensis. The Camry is now just the wider US-style V3 on the Avalon's 2720 wheelbase shared with the V3 Windom/ES330. At this point the X2 Avalon has been laft behind, now much the same size as the V3 Camry, but the new X3 moves into the next larger size class with a 2820 mm wheelbase and overall length over 5m. The bottom of the C-segment vacated by the Corolla is occupied by larger B-segment sedans such as the P4 Vios (sold only in Asian markets), and the imminent Belta (also in the P-family like the old Starlet and new Yaris).

Toyota is merely indicative of the broader market, the E12 Corolla matching other C-segment sedans, the T24 and T25 matching similar D-segment sedans in Japan and Europe, and the V3 typical of the E-segment. Something new which is happening now is the split between C-segment hatchbacks favored in Europe, and the sedans favored in the US and Asia. While the hatchback versions of new models such as the Civic, Megane and Astra remain in the C-segment and a little over 2600 mm in wheelbase, the sedan and wagon versions are switching to a much longer wheelbase of around 2700 mm, matching the D-segment sedans whose positions they are assuming as the latter approach the E-segment in Europe and the Americas. Nissan and GM are doing things slightly differently, with seperate C-segment Nissan Tiida and Opel Astra hatchbacks, and larger D-segment Nissan Bluebird/Sentra and Chevrolet Vectra sedans (although the latter is really a new Astra sedan).

With GM's global platform consolidation I can see the Optra, Cobalt, Ion and Chevrolet Vectra sedans all moving to a longer wheelbase, but shorter in overall length than the current Ion - around 4600 mm long, 2700 mm wheelbase and 1750 mm wide (give or take 15 mm or so). Hopefully GM will see this too. C-segment (midsize) hatchbacks will range from 4300-4400 mm (depending on rear window form), with a wheelbase of around 2650 mm. In Europe the C-segment hatch is assuming the market position of the midsize D-segment sedan, and is under pressure to match the larger sedan in space and hence width, which should increase from the current 1750-1780 mm to around 1820 mm (give or take 25 mm). GM will need to match this, preferably by moving the Astra and 9-2 to a shorter version of Epsilon II.

[thegriffon]

How big are you, turbie?

LMAO...j/k.  Sorry, I had to, it was calling my name.

If GM is putting incentives on the vehicles they will be replacing shortly I have no problem with but I thought employee pricing left dealers with little so why are we (again) trying to get cars off lots?  We should start to cry if GM puts large incentives on its new offerings.  A HHR, for example, should have nothing except a good interest rate or less than $500 on the hood.  Not both and nothing more.

I honestly think GM would be doing itself a favor if it cut back almost all incentives on its new models even if they're not selling well.  That way you weed out the bad product, improve it and advertise the hell out of it so it sells itself.

[post="29354"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The GMT 800s (especially the pickups) will be around a little while yet. They will be keen to clear out the old models as sson as possible when the 900s start rolling in so they can get the best possible prices for the new trucks.

[daves87rs]

a. the value pricing was a scam.  if you look, the MSRP's are up across the board for most decently optioned models.

b. the dealers still have no product.  most losts still look vacant.

c. gas prices are still casuing doubt in consumers whether they should buy a small car or get another large car.

d. the economy is still in a lull

e. neither GM nor Ford seem to be advertising anymore.

f. Ford I know has some big time lease incentive programs going on now too

g. the most important thing...new product, even with all the new GM products this year, they still are not bringing out new and improved products to replace their old clunkers fast enough.  GM should be doubling the pace of their newest products.

[post="29244"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree with reg....just get rid of the 05s....and get those 06s out...I only see
Impys, cobalts, and Silverados around here...

Sales are going to be down-there is not a lot that they can do about it.
Slashing rebates at this point would not be a good idea..

[daves87rs]

How big are you, turbie?

LMAO...j/k.  Sorry, I had to, it was calling my name.

If GM is putting incentives on the vehicles they will be replacing shortly I have no problem with but I thought employee pricing left dealers with little so why are we (again) trying to get cars off lots?  We should start to cry if GM puts large incentives on its new offerings.  A HHR, for example, should have nothing except a good interest rate or less than $500 on the hood.  Not both and nothing more.

I honestly think GM would be doing itself a favor if it cut back almost all incentives on its new models even if they're not selling well.  That way you weed out the bad product, improve it and advertise the hell out of it so it sells itself.

[post="29354"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thanks sci-you took the words out of my mouth... :)

[knightfan26917]

The problem is when they introduce the car with the discount before letting the public determine if the car needs a discount to sell.

*nods*

Very true ... I was a bit shocked to learn today that the '06 impala already has a $1,000 rebate....


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
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"How much longer will they be around?" ... Don Williams ... 'Old Coyote Town'

[turbo200]

Thanks sci-you took the words out of my mouth... :)

[post="29446"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

why :( :P

the corolla is a very large car for being a compact. that was all my point was. and i'm 5'11 thank you very much

[TKR]

The Chevy dealer I went to had a $5000 markup on their 1 new HHR, and also their 1 used HHR. They said they sell within 3 days.

[post="29369"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And dealers then sit and wonder why people walk away when they find out the residual in 3 years! I know everyone wants to make some $$ out of a new vehicle but you have to look long term - I bet Toyota does.

[VenSeattle]

I was at Huling Bros Buick-Pontiac-GMC in West Seattle a few days ago. They have $3,000 Market Adjustment mark-ups on LaCrosses & G6s.

Unbelievable.

[ehaase]

Ford/Mazda, Mitsubishi/Chrysler, Honda and Toyota are all consolidating ther C-, D- and E-segment platforms as the standard for the C-segment increases.

[post="29419"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Perhaps in the U.S., Ford could use a short version of the Fusion platform for the next Focus and a stretched version for the next Five Hundred/Montego. GM could use the Epsilon II platform for most of the FWD cars in the U.S. - SWB Epsilon II for Cobalt/Ion/HHR (perhaps Vibe); regular Epsilon II for Malibu/G6/Aura (perhaps BLS); and LWB Epsilon II for Impala/LaCrosse. This may help reduce costs.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

That caused GM's retail market share to fall 8.4 percentage points, to 14.6%

And the media/Detroit haters hit paydirt!!!!

Bad news all around.

Of course, it might help if GM actually MARKETED it's cars!!!!! GM: The HHR is doing well because the HHR not only is a good vehicle but also was marketed pretty well, same with the new Impala, except not as good of marketing.

GM does not need to continue to be hooked on incentives, I'm sure the Asians are grabbing share left and right and I'm sure we'll here all sorts of opinion swaying reports from the media, further putting the nails in the coffin of Detroit.

It might finally be over. WE gave it a good fight.

[Matt276]

*nods*

Very true ... I was a bit shocked to learn today that the '06 impala already has a $1,000 rebate....

That's the problem, GM 's wonderful cost cut made them save 200$ with the interior material, now they have to give 1000$ rebates to compensate.

[4gm]

If the Impala had a better nose it wouldn't need much of a rebate to sell.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

This is how GM should do their lineups I think: Chevrolet Aveo Gamma-Punto: 3-door hatchback coupe, 4-door notchback sedan, 5-door hatchback sedan. Base, LS, Z13 Sport, Z90 Diesel, Z02 Turbo trim levels, maybe LT Sedan/HB sedan. 1.6-liter DOHC ECOTEC 115hp I-4 engine (Base/LS/Z13 Sport), 1.8-liter DOHC ECOTEC 130hp I-4 (LT, optional LS), and 1.6-liter DOHC ECOTEC turbocharged 170hp I-4 (from Opel/Vauxhall Corsa OPC/VXR) on Z02 Turbo. And for LS-based Z90 Diesel, a 1.7-liter DOHC turbodiesel I-4, also out of Corsa. $9,000-14,000. Chevrolet Cobalt Delta II: 2-door notchback coupe, 4-door notchback sedan, 5-door station wagon. Base, LS, Z51 Sport, LT sedan/wagon (maybe), Z-24 trim levels. 2.2-liter DOHC ECOTEC 145hp I-4 engine (Base/LS/Z51 Sport), 2.4-liter DOHC ECOTEC 175hp I-4 (LT/Z-24, optional LS), and 1.9-liter DOHC turbodiesel I-4 on LS-derived Z90 Diesel. $13,000-20,000. Chevrolet Malibu Epsilon II: 2-door notchback coupe (replacing current Monte Carlo), 4-door notchback sedan, 5-door 2-3-seat station wagon, seats up to 6 and 8 passengers on Base/LS trim levels. Also Z52 Sport, LT, Z-26 (coupe)/LTZ (sedan/wagon) trim levels. 2.4-liter DOHC ECOTEC 175hp I-4 engine (Base), 3.2-liter DOHC High Feature 230hp V-6 (LS/Z52 Sport/LT, optional Base), 3.6-liter DOHC HF 250hp V-6 on LTZ/Z-26, optional LT. And also a Z90 Diesel model that adds to the LS trim level and whatever turbodiesel I-4 is appropriate for a 109x190-192x72x55-58" wheelbase/length/width/height mid-size car. $18,000-25,000. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out where Saturn Evoke (ION) and Aura would fit into this without overlapping respective Pontiac and Buick versions.

[sciguy_0504]

why  :(  :P

the corolla is a very large car for being a compact. that was all my point was. and i'm 5'11 thank you very much

[post="29493"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Didn't know they came that big. :P http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif :o

[cmattson]

I hate to say it, but $11,000 isn't that a-typical of a discount on the Yukon-XLs/Suburbans. When I purchased my '03 Suburban (January '04), my discount-from-sticker was around $11,500 -- which shows you that GM's discounts haven't changed much in 2 yearstime. For a "legacy" vehicle (read: a non-new GM product, new being defined as re-engineered; Cobalt, Malibu, G6, etc), I guess I'm not too concerned.

[The O.C.]

Didn't know they came that big. :P  http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif  :o

[post="29643"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Turbo200 and Sciguy......you know what they say about the size of your Corolla....

:rolleyes: