Sometimes I wonder

[Camino LS6]

Why I am still a GM fan.

I wonder because even some of GMs notably excellent recent efforts don't appeal to me personally.

Examples:

CTS

The Lambdas

Malibu

It's not that I think the competition is better, I simply don't care for these cars.

Then I remember:

The 900s

The Kappas

Zeta

Corvette

Still, I'm not salivating over anything which I could go buy tomorrow.

So, as my sig still says, I'm still waiting.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Sometimes I wonder the same thing... The only GMs that REALLY appeal to me are the

Buick Lucerne (but only with the chrome wheels, floor shift, and black grille)

Buick Allure (but now not as much b/c of the ass ugly new front fascia, preferred the old one)

Cadillac CTS

Cadillac DTS (w/column shift)

Cadillac SRX

Chevrolet Malibu

Chevrolet Equinox

Chevrolet Impala (w. Spoiler, floor shift, and alloys)

GMC Acadia

Saab 9-5 Sedan

Saab 9-3 Convertible

Saturn Aura

It's not just GM though... there are few other cars that appeal to me at all save for the new Taurus, MKX, Taurus X, MKS

^^I guess to an extent I'm really GM Loyal:

A) Because it's been a family tradition

B) Largely because of the past GM Vehicles I've really loved which include

Dustbuster U-Bodies

88, 98, LeSabre, Bonneville, Park Avenue, Riviera and Aurora G/H Bodies

Regal, Century, 1st Gen Impala and Intrigue W-Bodies

Alero N-Body

Roadmaster and Custom Cruiser B-Bodies

Last Gen. Fleetwood

Edited November 7, 2007 by vonVeezelsnider

[Oracle of Delphi]

I'm not wondering, my next car will be a Cadillac CTS or CTS-V. I'm moving to Cadillac because Pontiac has lost it's soul and it's way. If Pontiac has to rely on foreign help from Australia to get back in the game I'd rather move to Cadillac which is still a real American brand, unlike Pontiac which is nothing more than a Holden clone. No thanks Pontiac, you keep your foreign car. I'll stay American, something Holden will never be and can never be, no matter how much it tries.

[Flybrian]

The choices are narrowing for me. I won't buy a Cadillac because the local dealers are one tier above rapists. I won't buy a Chevrolet because I can't bring myself to spend money on any Chevrolet regardless of what it is. This leaves the G8, Lucerne, and LaCrosse. Maybe AURA. And that wraps it up for me.

Killing Olds killed half of the most desireable of GM's potential lineup. I would've gladly chosen any Oldsmobile product over anything offered by any other division.

[Camino LS6]

I'm not wondering, my next car will be a Cadillac CTS or CTS-V. I'm moving to Cadillac because Pontiac has lost it's soul and it's way. If Pontiac has to rely on foreign help from Australia to get back in the game I'd rather move to Cadillac which is still a real American brand, unlike Pontiac which is nothing more than a Holden clone. No thanks Pontiac, you keep your foreign car. I'll stay American, something Holden will never be and can never be, no matter how much it tries.

I've said it before and I still believe it, Holden's cars are more traditionally American than the stuff built here. With very few exceptions, Holdens are the only GM cars I would truly want right now.

[smileyyello]

i'm wondering too..

[Oracle of Delphi]

I've said it before and I still believe it, Holden's cars are more traditionally American than the stuff built here. With very few exceptions, Holdens are the only GM cars I would truly want right now.

As I said, they will never be American cars!

[Camino LS6]

As I said, they will never be American cars!

And what? Opels will? :rotflmao:

Holdens are the only ones with even the right configuration for me. (excepting Vette/Kappa)

And did you put that rolling obscenity in your sig just to tick me off?

[Robert Hall]

As I said, they will never be American cars!

So? They are still GMs...and Pontiac only has one Holden..they also have a Toyota-based product, a Chevy based product, etc..

[vonVeezelsnider]

And did you put that rolling obscenity in your sig just to tick me off?

Some sort of retro Studebaker with 1993 Grand Prix grille pieces??

[Northstar]

I'm not wondering, my next car will be a Cadillac CTS or CTS-V. I'm moving to Cadillac because Pontiac has lost it's soul and it's way. If Pontiac has to rely on foreign help from Australia to get back in the game I'd rather move to Cadillac which is still a real American brand, unlike Pontiac which is nothing more than a Holden clone. No thanks Pontiac, you keep your foreign car. I'll stay American, something Holden will never be and can never be, no matter how much it tries.

What happens if/when Pontiac simply uses what is essentially Holden's platform (Zeta or Alpha) and builds a car designed and built in North America? Does this make it acceptable or American enough?

As for me, there is not a whole lot, I guess. There are quite a few vehicles I would purchase if I had the money and was looking for a vehicle in that segment.

If I wanted a truck, it'd probably be a Sierra. A 7-seat SUV, Tahoe or Suburban (or Escalade/ESV). A 7-seat crossover, Acadia or Enclave or SRX (depending on how important that third row is). 5-seat compact crossover, the Vue. Compact car could quite possibly be an Astra. Midsize luxury sedan, probably the CTS. Sports car, the Z06. Family sedan, probably the G8. Roadster, a Sky Red Line (or Vette convert). And the list goes on beyond that, probably. However, cars I would actually drive myself: Maybe the CTS, maybe the G8, definitely the Corvette if I could afford it, and probably the Sky Red Line. There's nothing from GM has 2-doors, 4-seats (or 5), a nice interior, great handling, lots of power, etc., as the GTO does. Not one car.

I guess if I absolutely HAD to get a new car and it HAD to be a GM, I'd get the Sky Red Line (Corvette is not very affordable to me). If I couldn't deal with absolutely no trunk (the GTO's is already very small, but at least I can throw 2-3 golf bags in it) and still couldn't afford a Corvette, either the G8 or CTS.

The only cars that are on the market that really would suit my wants are the Mustang and soon the Challenger. The G37 would probably qualify as well. A 335Ci would also be awesome, but that's more expensive. Aside from other luxury makes, I can't really think of anything else that's on the market that has 2-doors, 4 or more seats, and is powerful and handles well. You have sport compacts like the Cobalt SS, but that's not what I want.

[Robert Hall]

GM right now has a few cars that appeal to me...the new CTS and the G8 are cars I would seriously consider... I also like the Kappas, the Enclave, and the Corvette...

[Camino LS6]

Some sort of retro Studebaker with 1993 Grand Prix grille pieces??

It's a hideous kit car called a "Studemino", which means some poor El Camino gave its life to create the thing.

[Robert Hall]

It's a hideous kit car called a "Studemino", which means some poor El Camino gave its life to create the thing.

What amazes me is that there are people that find such nonsense cool or attractive...

[Oracle of Delphi]

And what? Opels will? :rotflmao:

Holdens are the only ones with even the right configuration for me. (excepting Vette/Kappa)

And did you put that rolling obscenity in your sig just to tick me off?

No Opel is Opel and doesn't pretend to be anything else. In this regard I have more respect for Saturn, than Pontiac. At least Saturn says it wants to be the Opel of America. As for Pontiac, they are trying to hoodwink the American public by saying look at me, I have an American sedan I want you to buy with V8 power and RWD, and nothing could be further from the truth, it's a foreign car plain and simple. I consider them more foreign than Opel, since Australia is a Pacific Rim country. I also don't know why you're bringing up Opel, I don't work for them any longer. I work for GM Europe under Chevrolet, you may have heard It's becoming GM's world brand. :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

Because in another thread you predict the end of Pontiac and say not to worry because you will be bringing us Opels!

'sides, at least Holdens have American drivetrains.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Because in another thread you predict the end of Pontiac and say not to worry because you will be bringing us Opels!

'sides, at least Holdens have American drivetrains.

Pontiac will die, time will prove that out, as for the American drivetrains, grasping for straws now are we?

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

I pondered on this one too. GM pushed me out totally after killing Oldsmobile and not having anything like a Ninety Eight or Toronado any longer. They killed Oldsmobile, but have not filled that void. GM put me in the position to buy what I bought. I can say nothing really appeals to me because the only car that is close to what I have is a Lincoln Town Car. If I was a Ford man, I am sure a Lincoln Town Car and a Lincoln Mark VIII would be in my driveway. Buicks fall short for me. They are missing something. The Enclave has that "something". The Lucerne CXL or CX is not even in the neighborhood. The DTS has the right stuff, wrong headlight configuration. Plus the Cadillac draws too much unwanted attention. I do like the Holden Caprice/Statesman.

I guess I prefer GM because of the quality, the feeling they give me and the times they saved me in accidents.

The last new GM that was in my eye sight was Oldsmobile Bravada and Bonneville GXP and SLE. When they started using Oldsmobile parts, they became appealing. I could not get the configuration I wanted in a Bonneville.

I guess I will keep my two cars running as I have planned to do.

Maybe GM will fill the voids they are missing. They have dropped models, and are working on images and segments, but they are still missing that something. I sometimes look at Aura from the back and see Oldsmobile and wonder what if...

I just get so tired of everything having bucket seats, analog gauges( boring as hell to look at) spoilers on the trunk, seat controls on the side of the seat instead of on the door where they below and that tired old six window design Impala has. Not everything has to be and look sporty to have some style.

The CTS looks nice. I will admit that. I have seen several lately. I wonder when I see that what would that look like on a larger scale with a bench seat and different interior?

Just a thought..

[Robert Hall]

Because in another thread you predict the end of Pontiac and say not to worry because you will be bringing us Opels!

'sides, at least Holdens have American drivetrains.

It's pointless to argue with him...he has his own twisted agenda and world view.

[Northstar]

Pontiac will die, time will prove that out, as for the American drivetrains, grasping for straws now are we?

The G8 has basically a modified LS2 that's detuned and has AFM, and the 3.6 from GMNA. Sure it's called "Alloytec," but it was developed here and renamed there. The G8 GXP is coming and I assume it's going to have the LS3. The GTO had the LS1 and LS2. What's not American about them?

Since I assume you missed my post earlier:

What happens if/when Pontiac simply uses what is essentially Holden's platform (Zeta or Alpha) and builds a car designed and built in North America? Does this make it acceptable or American enough?

[Camino LS6]

Pontiac will die, time will prove that out, as for the American drivetrains, grasping for straws now are we?

Not at all. Holdens also have a distinctly American style which is far truer than the FWD foreign wannabe stuff GM builds here.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Distinctly American style, huh? That doesn't make it American. That sounds like something Toyota would say when advertising the Tundra.

[Camino LS6]

All GM has to do is start building the equivalent to Holden's VEs here and I'd be happy to buy at least one. Meantime, they have nothing for me.

[Intrepidation]

I pondered on this one too. GM pushed me out totally after killing Oldsmobile and not having anything like a Ninety Eight or Toronado any longer. They killed Oldsmobile, but have not filled that void. GM put me in the position to buy what I bought. I can say nothing really appeals to me because the only car that is close to what I have is a Lincoln Town Car. If I was a Ford man, I am sure a Lincoln Town Car and a Lincoln Mark VIII would be in my driveway. Buicks fall short for me. They are missing something. The Enclave has that "something". The Lucerne CXL or CX is not even in the neighborhood. The DTS has the right stuff, wrong headlight configuration. Plus the Cadillac draws too much unwanted attention. I do like the Holden Caprice/Statesman.

I guess I prefer GM because of the quality, the feeling they give me and the times they saved me in accidents.

The last new GM that was in my eye sight was Oldsmobile Bravada and Bonneville GXP and SLE. When they started using Oldsmobile parts, they became appealing. I could not get the configuration I wanted in a Bonneville.

I guess I will keep my two cars running as I have planned to do.

Maybe GM will fill the voids they are missing. They have dropped models, and are working on images and segments, but they are still missing that something. I sometimes look at Aura from the back and see Oldsmobile and wonder what if...

I just get so tired of everything having bucket seats, analog gauges( boring as hell to look at) spoilers on the trunk, seat controls on the side of the seat instead of on the door where they below and that tired old six window design Impala has. Not everything has to be and look sporty to have some style.

The CTS looks nice. I will admit that. I have seen several lately. I wonder when I see that what would that look like on a larger scale with a bench seat and different interior?

Just a thought..

Unfortunately I don't see those desires of yours appearing in any product anytime in the future. The market has simply moved away from bench seats, column shifters, floaty ride, and so on. It is too bad that they don't really offer something for buyers like you, because there is a market for it, but I'm willing to bet that its small and shrinking so they don't feel there's a point to it, which is ashame.

For me, there is:

Camaro

CTS

Sierra

Sky

9-3

Corvette

G8

Lambdas

[Oracle of Delphi]

All GM has to do is start building the equivalent to Holden's VEs here and I'd be happy to buy at least one. Meantime, they have nothing for me.

America will appreciate your business, in the meantime I will submit "Distinctly American style" to GM Marketing, it's slightly better than, "Geez, I could have had a G8!" :AH-HA_wink:

[vonVeezelsnider]

I promised myself that I will buy a new car to replace the Cavalier in spring 2012.... That being said; we'll see then how the EPII Regal suits me... and if it's not my cuppa... Well than I'll look at the Impala if it's still FWD... failing that The Taurus would be my fallback. Failing the Existence of Taurus, a gently used Cadillac CTS might be in order.

[Camino LS6]

America will appreciate your business, in the meantime I will submit "Distinctly American style" to GM Marketing, it's slightly better than, "Geez, I could have had a G8!" :AH-HA_wink:

You want to laugh it away, but you know what I'm after here. And you also know you'd like it too.

I want a modern equivalent to the GM A body.

[vonVeezelsnider]

I want a modern equivalent to the GM A body.

I want a modern equivalent to an A-Body too... except it's not the A-Body you're thinking about

Just Messing.

[K.C.]

I like GM for alot of reasons. I was raised with GM products in my family. My father always had GM products, and the cars and GM became a part of me. I trust GM. I've not had one leave me on the side of the road before, ever. (knocks on wood). I've been in accidents where I feel that the superior engineering of the car saved me and my family from serious injury. I have never doubted my love for GM. I have questioned their product decisions in the past and some of the current decisions as well, but they know far more than I do about the global market.

My favorite vehicles from GM right now are:

GMT 900s, especially the Av and Sierra All Terrain

Lambdas (especially the Acadia and Enclave)

Sigma Caddies

Kappas

Corvette (a part of my upbringing)

Upcoming Zeta cars (G8 and Camaro)

Upcoming Astra

Epsilon Malibu and Aura.

[K.C.]

Not at all. Holdens also have a distinctly American style which is far truer than the FWD foreign wannabe stuff GM builds here.

+1 and offer the big rear drive V-8 sedans, wagons, and utes with standard shift transmissions AND autos.

[Camino LS6]

The new Avalanche is really good, almost good enough to make me want one in that " I don't care if it is a smart purchase" kind of way.

I have no problem with GMs 900s, but I'm mostly thinking "car" here.

[Cory Wolfe]

I'm not wondering, my next car will be a Cadillac CTS or CTS-V. I'm moving to Cadillac because Pontiac has lost it's soul and it's way. If Pontiac has to rely on foreign help from Australia to get back in the game I'd rather move to Cadillac which is still a real American brand, unlike Pontiac which is nothing more than a Holden clone. No thanks Pontiac, you keep your foreign car. I'll stay American, something Holden will never be and can never be, no matter how much it tries.

Yes, you'll stay American with your German Opels, German co-citizenship, German ethnicity, and co-residence in Germany. I wonder how many people here care about what Fiat does. Do they proclaim death if Fiat rebadges an Alfa Romeo as their own? Do they vow to only stick with Lancia?

[vonVeezelsnider]

Yes, you'll stay American with your German Opels, German co-citizenship, German ethnicity, and co-residence in Germany. I wonder how many people here care about what Fiat does. Do they proclaim death if Fiat rebadges an Alfa Romeo as their own? Do they vow to only stick with Lancia?

I nominate that for post of the year

[Oracle of Delphi]

where is my true full sized car, the one I can get under $25,000, pile my friends and all their stuff in to it without breaking a sweat?

Back in 1988! :AH-HA_wink:

[vonVeezelsnider]

Back in 1988! :AH-HA_wink:

Then grant me a time machine and let's go!

[Oracle of Delphi]

Yes, you'll stay American with your German Opels, German co-citizenship, German ethnicity, and co-residence in Germany. I wonder how many people here care about what Fiat does. Do they proclaim death if Fiat rebadges an Alfa Romeo as their own? Do they vow to only stick with Lancia?

That would be a Bob question! You know BV, I can't help being German, just as you can't help being Gay! :AH-HA_wink: Oh and Zürich is not in Germany.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[knightfan26917]

Why I am still a GM fan.

I wonder because even some of GMs notably excellent recent efforts don't appeal to me personally.

*nods*

I understand what you mean ... because I wonder the same thing at times.....

Cort:34swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

WRMNshowcase.lego.HO.model.MCs.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"The thing I find most amazing in amazing grace is the chance to give it out" ... Brandon Heath ... 'I'm Not Who I Was'

[Cory Wolfe]

That would be a Bob question! You know BV, I can't help being German, just as you can't help being Gay! :AH-HA_wink: Oh and Zürich is not in Germany.

Switzerland... Germany... What's the difference?

[vonVeezelsnider]

"Ve Knew Nothzing about ze war, ve didn't know there was a war... we lived in the back, near Switzerland- All we could hear vas yodelling!!"

~The Producers

[ocnblu]

Add me to the list of people who feel a great need is being unmet in the market. Affordable RWD cars made by GM need to return. The Dark Days started in the spring of 1979 with the introduction of the X-bodies... and GM's market share has not recovered since. Zeta and Alpha give me hope for a new dawn... but if my hopes are dashed by governmental interference (dingbat CAFE spikes) leading to fear by GM management to forge ahead with their plans... all bets are off. People who care about cars will have lost, and forever, I fear.

I drive GM trucks because they are the only relatively affordable RWD products available in large numbers from my favorite automotive company. I feel I am not alone. I feel that people have flocked to trucks because they are one of the only truly American-type vehicles left. This goodwill toward American trucks from the buying public could easily spill over into the car market... IF THE PRODUCT IS THERE. RWD Impala, Camaro, El Camino, American-styled and built G8, G8 coupe, Alpha coupe and sedan, Velite convertible, Park Avenue and DTS are the products GM needs to make customers become patriotic once again, to feel a connection to their cars that has been squandered by so many of GM's product decisions for going on 30 years.

GM is like a mini-USA in some ways. They have given so much away to foreigners, perhaps because they felt they'd always be #1, but that time for complacency has passed. It is time for GM to get real again, and start building the cars no one else can build like they can... with modern technology, of course.

Edited November 7, 2007 by ocnblu

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

Unfortunately I don't see those desires of yours appearing in any product anytime in the future. The market has simply moved away from bench seats, column shifters, floaty ride, and so on. It is too bad that they don't really offer something for buyers like you, because there is a market for it, but I'm willing to bet that its small and shrinking so they don't feel there's a point to it, which is ashame.

For me, there is:

Camaro

CTS

Sierra

Sky

9-3

Corvette

G8

Lambdas

There is a market for it. My Toronado is not floaty. It handles quite well actually. That is why I like it. It is smaller than my Ninety Eight, and sporty in appearance, has a great ride and suspension set up. It has the interior I like. My Ninety Eight is floaty in a good way. You can tell the difference in the ride. You cannot beat the comfort and the features. GM is starting to get the message.

[Camino LS6]

Add me to the list of people who feel a great need is being unmet in the market. Affordable RWD cars made by GM need to return. The Dark Days started in the spring of 1979 with the introduction of the X-bodies... and GM's market share has not recovered since. Zeta and Alpha give me hope for a new dawn... but if my hopes are dashed by governmental interference (dingbat CAFE spikes) leading to fear by GM management to forge ahead with their plans... all bets are off. People who care about cars will have lost, and forever, I fear.

I drive GM trucks because they are the only relatively affordable RWD products available in large numbers from my favorite automotive company. I feel I am not alone. I feel that people have flocked to trucks because they are one of the only truly American-type vehicles left. This goodwill toward American trucks from the buying public could easily spill over into the car market... IF THE PRODUCT IS THERE. RWD Impala, Camaro, El Camino, American-styled and built G8, G8 coupe, Alpha coupe and sedan, Velite convertible, Park Avenue and DTS are the products GM needs to make customers become patriotic once again, to feel a connection to their cars that has been squandered by so many of GM's product decisions for going on 30 years.

GM is like a mini-USA in some ways. They have given so much away to foreigners, perhaps because they felt they'd always be #1, but that time for complacency has passed. It is time for GM to get real again, and start building the cars no one else can build like they can... with modern technology, of course.

Excellent post, Ocn!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I second that...

BTW, you could always just go retro :AH-HA_wink: to satisfy your RWD needs.

I figure it'll be at least another 5-10 years before the enviro-weenies start forcing us to give those up.

[frogger]

Here or coming soon...

Camaro

CTS

Sky

Corvette

G8

There are classes where GM is not class leading (anything they make FWD), and GM bowtie radio center stacks are cheap and ugly, however I can't think of another manufacturer where I'm a fan of that many affordable (to me) vehicles.