October 2007 Sales: General Motors

[Flybrian]

October 2007 Sales: General Motors
GM Reports 310,008 October Deliveries, Posting Third Consecutive Year-Over-Year Monthly Increase

(Monthly comparison percentages are adjusted for sales days unless noted.
Annual and calendar year-to-date comparisons are unadjusted.)

• Chevrolet, GMC and Cadillac Increased Sales Year-Over-Year
• Full-Size Utilities and All-New Crossovers Post Significant Gains
• 2008 Malibu Orders Outpace Available Supply
• All-New CTS Drives 20 Percent Cadillac Sales Increase

DETROIT - GM dealers in the United States delivered 310,008 vehicles in October, 8,700 more vehicles when compared with year-ago performance, outpacing an industry expected to show a volume decline of about 4 percent.

For the third consecutive month, on an unadjusted basis, total sales increased, with October up 3 percent. When adjusted for selling days, sales declined 1 percent. It is anticipated that GM will see its fourth consecutive month with market share above 24 percent. Since August, market share is up more than 1 point, to 25.1 percent, compared with the same three month period last year.

The month's 229,294 retail deliveries demonstrated solid performance despite continuing industry softness. GM retail sales were led by brisk retail sales of full-size utilities, mid-utility crossovers, the Cadillac CTS, and the Chevrolet Aveo, Cobalt and HHR. The Saturn division showed yet another retail sales increase, up 7 percent.

"Our strong market share performance and our ability to outpace industry trends on volume demonstrates the consumer acceptance of our new products," said Mark LaNeve, GM North America vice president, Vehicle Sales, Service and Marketing. "Over the past two years, our new products including the Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra, Cadillac CTS, full-size utilities, and mid-crossovers have all gained retail share following launch. Our committed dealer team has really stepped up to the plate, pushing all of GM's brands above the industry average in the recently released J.D. Power Customer Satisfaction Index."

Cadillac CTS total sales surged 75 percent, compared with year-ago performance, due to the strength of the all-new CTS, now in showrooms. GMC Acadia, Saturn OUTLOOK and Buick Enclave together had total sales of more than 12,800 vehicles, pushing a more than 320-percent increase in GM's mid-crossover segment. Additionally, Cadillac's SRX luxury crossover saw a total sales increase of 37 percent. Total sales of the fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5 were up 81 percent, Chevrolet Aveo was up 58 percent and HHR was up 70 percent compared with last October.

Vehicles with retail sales increases, compared with year-ago levels, include: Chevrolet Aveo, Cobalt, Tahoe, Suburban, and HHR; Saturn ION; GMC Yukon and Yukon XL; Cadillac CTS and SRX; Pontiac G5, Grand Prix and Vibe.

"Cadillac CTS and Buick Enclave have two of the fastest turn rates in the industry," LaNeve added. "And while it is still very early, Malibu demand and customer feedback has been sensational. It's products like these that have enabled us to buck recent industry trends."

Quality, reliability and durability (QRD) remain key factors when purchasing a new vehicle. An increasing number of consumers cite GM's willingness to stand behind its quality as a reason to buy a new GM vehicle. GM's 5 Year/100,000 Mile Powertrain Limited Warranty continues to be a better choice for customers.

GM's coverage focuses on the complete ownership experience and includes other provisions that competitors do not offer, including transferability to the next owner, more complete coverage of parts, and coverage for new and certified used vehicles. In addition, GM offers superior complementary programs, such as courtesy transportation and roadside assistance. "GM provides the best coverage in the industry. We take care of the vehicle and the owner like no other manufacturer," LaNeve added.

Certified Used Vehicles Sales

October 2007 sales for all certified GM brands, including GM Certified Used Vehicles, Cadillac Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles, Saturn Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles, Saab Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles, and HUMMER Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles, were 39,919 vehicles, down nearly 7 percent from last October. Total year-to-date certified GM sales are 442,110 vehicles, up 1 percent from the same period last year.

GM Certified Used Vehicles, the industry's top-selling manufacturer-certified used brand, posted 34,843 sales, down 6 percent from last October. Year-to-date sales for GM Certified Used Vehicles are 388,442 vehicles, up 3 percent from the same period in 2006.

Cadillac Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles posted October sales of 3,255 vehicles, down 11 percent from last October. Saturn Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles sold 1,173 vehicles in October, down 9 percent. Saab Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles sold 518 vehicles, down 13 percent, and HUMMER Certified Pre-Owned Vehicles sold 130 vehicles, up 59 percent.

"While sales of GM Certified Used Vehicles were lower this October, year-to-date sales are up 3 percent and we expect to continue to surpass last year's category-leading annual sales," said LaNeve.

"Our customers enjoy a broad selection of fully inspected and reconditioned late-model used vehicles with the peace-of-mind assurances of one of the industry's best warranty programs," LaNeve added.

Click HERE to see October's complete sales breakdown

Big Winners

Cadillac CTS: +74.5% (6586|3629)
Chevy Aveo: +57.8% (6373|3883)
Chevy Cobalt: +80.9% (16505|8772)

[the_yellow_dart]

retail sales increases ... Saturn ION

[thedriver]

I'm not surprised that Ion sales are up, they are practically giving them away.

A friend of mine just bought a 2007 Ion 2 with 0 % financing and a bunch of other incentives. I talked him into a new car (especially since his last one was a Saturn) because of year end and model end deals. Otherwise he was looking at a KIA!!

I told him he might as well just have me punch him in the face, he would feel better about it later. . .

Edited November 1, 2007 by thedriver

[Drew Dowdell]

SRX up 37 percent and they're still not going to have a next gen? It's obvious the MCE really helped.

[enzl]

Can you say 'Fleet'?

Again, for the 2nd of 3 months of 'up' sales, we see no mention of a reduction in fleeting...

According to my calculations, more than 1 of 4 october sales were to fleet customers...

[Z-06]

Looks like Outlook is going to languish last

Acadia ~6,000

Enclave ~4,800

Outlook ~2,400

So much for Saturn having a big SUV.

[ZL-1]

[GXT]

According to my calculations, more than 1 of 4 october sales were to fleet customers...

25% fleet is an improvement for GM, isn't it? They used to be much higher (1 in 3 or more). How are you calculating?

Edit: I see the PR had the retail sales count of 229,294. That means 80,714 or 26% went to fleet.

As no one has mentioned it, I will. GM's October sales were actually down 1.1% by the standard means of measuring such things (DSR). I'm not commenting on whether it is good or bad, I'd just hate to see someone show up and accuse someone of playing games with numbers.

Edited November 1, 2007 by GXT

[dford]

Can I be the 1st to call BS on the General. Look at the model by model breakdown, and notice the 80% increase in Cobalt sales nicely corresponds with the unit sales increase for the entire company......

Sales suck, dump'em into the fleets.

[enzl]

25% fleet is an improvement for GM, isn't it? They used to be much higher (1 in 3 or more). How are you calculating?

Edit: I see the PR had the retail sales count of 229,294. That means 80,714 or 26% went to fleet.

As no one has mentioned it, I will. GM's October sales were actually down 1.1% by the standard means of measuring such things (DSR). I'm not commenting on whether it is good or bad, I'd just hate to see someone show up and accuse someone of playing games with numbers.

You're right, I believe the highest months were close to a third, so, technically, it is an improvement. My issue is with the semantics that go into GM's claims, as they have again violated their own promise to reduce fleeting, another example of managerial amnesia over at the Tubes.

I believe the fairest way to measure performance is against the rest of the marketplace, so if GM's numbers were down less than the market as a whole, that is progress--it also means marketshare increase.

I just don't see where a steady increase will come from---the Malibu will steal sales from the Impala and noone is foreseeing an improvement in the housing market, so GMT900's will probably not see much volume increases. The CTS will sell (partially at the expense of the STS), the G8 is small volume, the Astra will not equal Ion sales, and any other increases will be wiped out by aging Buick cars, Pontiac's continued death spiral and the continued mediocrity of small Chevy's...if anyone sees a realistic opportunity for growth, I'm all ears.

[regfootball]

glass half empty today?

saturn's strategy is to no longer sell big volume models. Aura at 60k might be biggest. Outlook at 30k is a contributor. Astra was to be what, 50k? ok, Vue biggest, 80-100k? It all adds up.

Saturn is more successful with 6-8 products of differing price ranges instead of trying to push 2 or 3 cheaper models in volume.

enzl is gloom and doom but consider how each new GM model is desirable and has a good buzz. GM is quietly putting out one or two new excellent products per division per year now, and over time that should stabilize sales and profits. Nearly all of GM's new products this year come in with high desirability (even if CR trashed the new Vue this month). Vue, G8, CTS, yukon/tahoe hybrid, malibu, lambdas, astra, aura......all positive.

the malibu may cannibalize the impala some in the showroom, but not as much as you think. impala will get fleeted more, and malibu will pick up the slack in the showroom. Overall, the combo of those 2 should post a net gain in both volume and profits and set the stage for big gains when the zeta impala hits.

[enzl]

glass half empty today?

saturn's strategy is to no longer sell big volume models. Aura at 60k might be biggest. Outlook at 30k is a contributor. Astra was to be what, 50k? ok, Vue biggest, 80-100k? It all adds up.

Saturn is more successful with 6-8 products of differing price ranges instead of trying to push 2 or 3 cheaper models in volume.

enzl is gloom and doom but consider how each new GM model is desirable and has a good buzz. GM is quietly putting out one or two new excellent products per division per year now, and over time that should stabilize sales and profits. Nearly all of GM's new products this year come in with high desirability (even if CR trashed the new Vue this month). Vue, G8, CTS, yukon/tahoe hybrid, malibu, lambdas, astra, aura......all positive.

the malibu may cannibalize the impala some in the showroom, but not as much as you think. impala will get fleeted more, and malibu will pick up the slack in the showroom. Overall, the combo of those 2 should post a net gain in both volume and profits and set the stage for big gains when the zeta impala hits.

Desireable is good. GM surviving is better.

You've completely made my point for me. There is nothing to dissuade me from thinking that GM is shooting for an 18-20% share of the US market---our buddy Mr. Lutz all but confirmed it with his recent remarks---that leaves alot of dealers, factory workers and suppliers in a serious sh!thole.

Pessimistic, maybe. But this is not what management has been promising over the last few years...and keep in mind, GM has made enormous commitments to keeping lots of capacity here in the US--kicking the can down the road is what got GM to its knees in the first place!

[Z-06]

25% fleet is an improvement for GM, isn't it? They used to be much higher (1 in 3 or more). How are you calculating?

Edit: I see the PR had the retail sales count of 229,294. That means 80,714 or 26% went to fleet.

As no one has mentioned it, I will. GM's October sales were actually down 1.1% by the standard means of measuring such things (DSR). I'm not commenting on whether it is good or bad, I'd just hate to see someone show up and accuse someone of playing games with numbers.

No PR games, straight in their news on GM Media is the number mentioned by GM itself.

When adjusted for selling days, sales declined 1 percent..

I guess some people do not read everything carefully.

[gm4life]

Great news. How'd Toyota do?

[VenSeattle]

Exactly smallchevy...

At least GM stated both sets of numbers (before adjusted selling days and after.) Did Toyota? No.

[gmcbob]

I don't know guys - even if GM is selling 25% to fleets, it's still selling quite a few cars to regular retail customers, with some good gains in key areas. And even if the company is still selling a lot of cars and trucks to fleets, it gets the cars out on the streets, and gets the nameplates out in front of potential customers. Don't fret guys (and girls) - GM will be just fine.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Um...Saturn is down

[Drew Dowdell]

Desireable is good. GM surviving is better.

You've completely made my point for me. There is nothing to dissuade me from thinking that GM is shooting for an 18-20% share of the US market---our buddy Mr. Lutz all but confirmed it with his recent remarks---that leaves alot of dealers, factory workers and suppliers in a serious sh!thole.

Pessimistic, maybe. But this is not what management has been promising over the last few years...and keep in mind, GM has made enormous commitments to keeping lots of capacity here in the US--kicking the can down the road is what got GM to its knees in the first place!

you misinterpreted Lutz's remarks

[CaddyXLR-V]

Desireable is good. GM surviving is better.

You've completely made my point for me. There is nothing to dissuade me from thinking that GM is shooting for an 18-20% share of the US market---our buddy Mr. Lutz all but confirmed it with his recent remarks---that leaves alot of dealers, factory workers and suppliers in a serious sh!thole.

Pessimistic, maybe. But this is not what management has been promising over the last few years...and keep in mind, GM has made enormous commitments to keeping lots of capacity here in the US--kicking the can down the road is what got GM to its knees in the first place!

I think Lutz was just predicting much more growth outside the US, not stating US sales would decline. At the rate of growth by both the market as a whole in China and India, and GM's growth within those markets, that statement doesn't appear to be too far off.

The only way for GM's US % of sales to not decrease when compared to GM's growth globally outside the US, would be for sales in the US to grow by more than 5% yearly. If GM sells 4 million vehicles in the US, with a 5% annual increase over 10 years, GM would need to increase sales by 2.5 million, which is highly unlikely for any automaker, including Toyota.

[Z-06]

I think Lutz was just predicting much more growth outside the US, not stating US sales would decline. At the rate of growth by both the market as a whole in China and India, and GM's growth within those markets, that statement doesn't appear to be too far off.

That is how I interpreted too.

[enzl]

I wasn't directly interpreting what he was saying, I understood the implications regarding the proportion of sales shifting overseas...but that still doesn't answer where the sales increases will come from to recapture market share and increase NA volume--his statements almost concede that NA will be less important, thus when lowered expectations are realized, Lutz can state that that was the plan.

Keep in mind that GM was handing out 30 (share %) buttons not too long ago...I believe there might have been some 28 or 29 buttons as well. Clearly, that hope has been abandoned.

Again, there's no indication of where increased volumes will come from...therefore, one can only conclude that a continued downward trend of volume will be the result. Obviously, the new Union contract takes some of the heat off of the need for volume, but other than an overall market decline which boosts % share, I can't see how GM recaptures volume---thus endangering more dealers and more suppliers---which ends up hurting GM in the long/short term.

[CARBIZ]

Exactly. Lutz is only stating the obvious. Increasingly, the auto market is global and the ROW is unerringly becoming a larger portion of the vehicle market than North America. Wouldn't it be deliciously ironic that while Japan Inc has (apparently) won the battle in conquering Detroit on its own turf, ultimately it loses the battle because GM (and to a lesser extent) Ford has greater successes in the ROW.

And this tired Fleet sales argument has reared its head again. Having clean, 8 month old used vehicles to sell may be exactly the lifeline a dealer needs to get through tough times. At the end of the day, if an Impala is 'fleeted' out (and we are obviously talking 'daily rentals' here) and then re-sold as a used vehicle 8 months or a year later, it is still a sale.

I'm in new car sales and there are advantages to the customer for a brand new Impala at 0% for 60 months and advantages for someone buying a 'nearly new' Impala with 30k km on it for a $6-7k savings. The key thing is that it depends on the customer. Some people love almost new vehicles that have been daily rentals, while others are nervous about how the vehicles were treated during the time they were rented out and will shy away. But choice is always good, right? There are always those who will pay a premium for having the 'latest and greatest' and those who will wait a year.

As for GM's position on this, well, I am sure they mostly look at it as a sale is a sale. The impact on resale value while certainly not a positive one, is probably not as negative as all the 'incentives' available. The reality is, all manufacturers are faced with a dilemma when sales goals are not met or the economy downturns or a target market unexpectedly changes: what to do with the factories? Getting out from under the ludicrous union contracts where workers are paid 80% to stay home is an absolute must for GM.

I just rented a Mustang convertible a few weeks ago. The experience was a positive one. Living in a northern climate where convertibles are only practical 3 or 4 months a year, the experience changed my atittude about the possible negatives of owning a convertible here. I feel better about Ford, the Mustang and convertibles.

How is that a losing situation for Detroit?

[Drew Dowdell]

I can't see how GM recaptures volume

It goes like this.

Toyota starts having major quality problems with some of their biggest selling models.

The Camry drops to "Not Recommended" at CR

Chevy simultaneously releases very competitive new Malibu.

Toyota releases a new Corolla with a Yaris-Camry face glued on the front.

Chrysler cuts the Pacifica

Honda releases another bland but this time somewhat awkward looking Accord sedan.

Numerous Toyota Tundra problems surface

Buick has it's first hit in decades, GM restricts production to keep demand high, resale values are affected across the Buick line.

After 20 years, GM advertising pulls their head out their ass.

New CTS makes the IS look like your mother's 5 year old Camry.

[G. David Felt]

SEATTLE AUTO SHOW THIS WEEK and WEEKEND! Can not wait to see all of the Generals new babies in one place. Spending all day Saturday there. This is Great news for the General and should continue to keep pushing up.

At least the general has not dropped to 14 or 13% market share like Ford has. The number one Fix or repair daily truck in America. Soon to be replaced by the Toyota Turdra.

[enzl]

It goes like this.

Toyota starts having major quality problems with some of their biggest selling models.

The Camry drops to "Not Recommended" at CR

Chevy simultaneously releases very competitive new Malibu.

Toyota releases a new Corolla with a Yaris-Camry face glued on the front.

Chrysler cuts the Pacifica

Honda releases another bland but this time somewhat awkward looking Accord sedan.

Numerous Toyota Tundra problems surface

Buick has it's first hit in decades, GM restricts production to keep demand high, resale values are affected across the Buick line.

After 20 years, GM advertising pulls their head out their ass.

New CTS makes the IS look like your mother's 5 year old Camry.

I'm still not sold...each and every example above just means that GM will be plugging holes in past volumes---

Impala v. Malibu = net no increase in sales

Camry sales would go to imports first, then maybe Malibu

Corolla is ugly/bland now---and its selling at record high rates--a new one will continue that trend

The Pacifica's been a rental queen for 2 years...where are retail sales going?

The Accord is out 2 months--lets see where sales go (dissatisfied Camry intenders anyone?)

Buick has to replace 3 models with one...sales of the 2 other sedans they sell are tanking

The ads I've seen don't indicate that GM's head has been extracted fully from its posterior

and the CTS is great--but save GM great?--I don't think so. It'll cannibalize STS sales.

Plus the Housing market is taking a dump, draggin GMT900's and their competitors with it.

I'm hopeful, but the reality indicates further sinking sales, albeit at higher margins (hopefully).

[A Horse With No Name]

Actually glad to see GM doing so well. They are bringing out great new products and people are responding.

The HHR and the CTS are two of my fav. GM products right now and both are doing fabulous.

It is worth noting that the main cars in the same class as the HHR (xB, PT, Element) are all tanking while the HHR is picking up buyers.

Love it.

Chris

[Chevy Nick]

You guys are underestimating the impact of the G8, it's going to do very well. (has production started yet ?- I'm assuming we'll see them in the US in December)

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm still not sold...each and every example above just means that GM will be plugging holes in past volumes---

Impala v. Malibu = net no increase in sales - you really think that the only people who will buy a Malibu are people who originally wanted an Impala?

Camry sales would go to imports first, then maybe Malibu - Awkward styling on the Accord with an engine described as buzzy and an Altima that has the tendancy to suck up cigarette butts and burst into flames. Well... there's always the Galant.

Corolla is ugly/bland now---and its selling at record high rates--a new one will continue that trend - got uglier while still being bland, Being fleeted

The Pacifica's been a rental queen for 2 years...where are retail sales going? - The Lambdas are pulling sales from somewhere, GM wasn't in this market before

The Accord is out 2 months--lets see where sales go (dissatisfied Camry intenders anyone?) - The accord will do as expected but won't take off due to styling. Not really going to conquest anyone with that.

Buick has to replace 3 models with one...sales of the 2 other sedans they sell are tanking - Lucerne is still selling better than Avalon, ES, Maxima only being beaten by the 300 in this case. Not too bad for "OMG teh PUSHRODS!" Lacrosse is tanking because it got beaten with an ugly stick two years before it's due to be replaced and consolidating 3 questionable vehicles into one exceptional vehicle is a good thing right?

The ads I've seen don't indicate that GM's head has been extracted fully from its posterior. Well then you should "Look" at the Buick ads for Enclave and Lucerne. Rethink American, and check out the car you can't ignore.

and the CTS is great--but save GM great?--I don't think so. It'll cannibalize STS sales. The STS sold 1800 copies this month... what's left to canibalize? We already know it's a dead man walking. GM could stop producing the STS all together and hardly anyone would notice. The CTS continues to add to Cadillac's cred so that when the STS/DTS replacement does come, it'll have some cred to work with. I don't remember which magazine said it, but they called the CTS the best Cadillac and best GM car in over 30 years.

Plus the Housing market is taking a dump, draggin GMT900's and their competitors with it. an ebbing tide lowers all ships

I'm hopeful, but the reality indicates further sinking sales, albeit at higher margins (hopefully).

Edited November 2, 2007 by Oldsmoboi

[enzl]

You are entitled to disagree, but I work with GM products everyday--the Malibu ads are everywhere--the cars are nowhere to be found---does that make sense to you?

Our region is shedding dealers at a 1 per quarter clip---is that good?

Monthly sales targets haven't been reached in my region in 2 years---they're currently at 75% for the year!

Impy v. Malibu will be cross-shopped by almost everyone--they're sitting across from each other in the same showroom! (& will for 2 model yrs, at least!)

I repeat: Where will the lost volume be regained?

Answer: It won't.

[Camino LS6]

-Sales are up for three months straight - in a down market

-The release of truly excellent new product is happening in a steady flow, with much more to come.

-The competition is being lambasted a bit more each month in the press

-The new contract changes the game in GM's favor in a big way.

-Overseas sales are booming

-Recent PR and reviews are very positive.

- Wall St. likes GM again.

- Oh, and market share has increased.

I'd say that things are progressing nicely.

[smk4565]

It is time to get rid of Saab and Hummer, the sales of both are tanking hard, I don't see why they keep introducing models and spending money to advertise for vehicles no one wants. Pontiac and Buick are struggling also, Buick is down about 23% on the year and will sell under 190,000 units this year. If they give up Hummer and Saab and focus all those resources to Buick and Pontiac, maybe they can save those 2 brands. At the rate they are going, all 4 brands will be dead by 2020.

The other brands are doing fine, I am not too excited about the CTS's increase over the old model yet, because it is still new, and the STS sales are going to nothing, so I'm not sure they are really beating the competition in any way. If next October the CTS is a year old and goes up 10% in sales, that will be impressive.

[Northstar]

You are entitled to disagree, but I work with GM products everyday--the Malibu ads are everywhere--the cars are nowhere to be found---does that make sense to you?

Impy v. Malibu will be cross-shopped by almost everyone--they're sitting across from each other in the same showroom! (& will for 2 model yrs, at least!)

I repeat: Where will the lost volume be regained?

Answer: It won't.

Saying that the Malibu won't net any sales increase is pretty ridiculous. Impala sales may fall as a result of the Malibu stealing some of its sales, but you are suggesting that the Malibu won't take in any conquest buyers, which is ridiculous to think after reading the review.

Car companies advertise cars before they're out quite often. The Mazda3 had ads on New Year's day every five minutes shortly before it came out. The Silverado also had ads before it came out, if I remember correctly.

Seeing as how the car isn't even at dealers yet (at least not many), I'd say it's pretty good that you say that buyers have come in asking about it.

[smk4565]

It goes like this.

Toyota starts having major quality problems with some of their biggest selling models.

The Camry drops to "Not Recommended" at CR

Chevy simultaneously releases very competitive new Malibu.

Toyota releases a new Corolla with a Yaris-Camry face glued on the front.

Chrysler cuts the Pacifica

Honda releases another bland but this time somewhat awkward looking Accord sedan.

Numerous Toyota Tundra problems surface

Buick has it's first hit in decades, GM restricts production to keep demand high, resale values are affected across the Buick line.

After 20 years, GM advertising pulls their head out their ass.

New CTS makes the IS look like your mother's 5 year old Camry.

Toyota's quality will be fine I think, they don't get lazy or complacent. Even though they slipped they are still top 5 out of 37 car brands, it isn't like they are Dodge. Either way, if I were GM, I wouldn't be waiting for Toyota to screw up, I'd assume they are going to try hard, so we have to also.

2008 Accord is better than the 2008 Malibu, Malibu looks better, Accord has better interior, more power, more fuel economy, more resale value and about 16 years in a row of 10 Best awards from every car mag there is. The Malibu is a big improvement, better than most, but not the class benchmark.

How many Malibus are sold in Europe and Asia? To beat Honda and Toyota, they need to sell them outside the US, and go for 500,000+ per year world wide. Great cars sell at that level. (without rental fleet sales)

Buick sales are down 23% this year, the Lexus RX easily outsells the Enclave and the Lexus is more dated and costs a lot more. If I am GM, I am not looking toward Buick to ensure a good future.

CTS has the best styling theme of any entry to middle luxury car, however use of cheap gray plastic and cheap base wheels (and lack of fog lights on base car) leads to an average execution of a great design.

And Road and Track just rated the G35 better than the CTS, the CTS needs to get on a diet fast. The next 5-series is going to be crazy good, if Cadillac wants to compete with it, they need have a lot of work to do. The 535d is coming here, it is just as fast as a CTS and gets better gas mileage than an Aveo or Malibu Hybrid, not to mention a twin turbo V10 M5. I am still waiting (and hoping) for Cadillac to get the hardware to compete with the upper echelon of luxury cars.

[balthazar]

CTS does not compete with the 5-series- completely different price classes. You know this.

>>"Toyota's quality will be fine I think, they don't get lazy or complacent. Even though they slipped they are still top 5 out of 37 car brands..."<<

Too late. No manufacturer in recent memory has shown such a staggering degree of quality lapses in such a short span of time. These have not been 1 or 2 or even 5 instances, but steady, repeated problems sourced to assembly, to design, to engineering and to suppliers. The overwhelming examples we've seen over the last 2 years are more that circumnstantial; this is the current SOP of toyota - I see no logical reason to assume everything will be fixed with a snap of the fingers. Quality will continue to drop and eventually, the rankings will follow.

>>"Lexus RX easily outsells the Enclave and the Lexus is more dated and costs a lot more."<<

RX sells primarily on reputation; #1 in sales never guarantees the best product, only the most popular.

>>"The Malibu is a big improvement, better than most, but not the class benchmark."<<

Neither is the camry- yet it continually outsells the accord.

[regfootball]

Toyota's quality will be fine I think, they don't get lazy or complacent. Even though they slipped they are still top 5 out of 37 car brands, it isn't like they are Dodge. Either way, if I were GM, I wouldn't be waiting for Toyota to screw up, I'd assume they are going to try hard, so we have to also.

2008 Accord is better than the 2008 Malibu, Malibu looks better, Accord has better interior, more power, more fuel economy, more resale value and about 16 years in a row of 10 Best awards from every car mag there is. The Malibu is a big improvement, better than most, but not the class benchmark.

How many Malibus are sold in Europe and Asia? To beat Honda and Toyota, they need to sell them outside the US, and go for 500,000+ per year world wide. Great cars sell at that level. (without rental fleet sales)

Buick sales are down 23% this year, the Lexus RX easily outsells the Enclave and the Lexus is more dated and costs a lot more. If I am GM, I am not looking toward Buick to ensure a good future.

CTS has the best styling theme of any entry to middle luxury car, however use of cheap gray plastic and cheap base wheels (and lack of fog lights on base car) leads to an average execution of a great design.

And Road and Track just rated the G35 better than the CTS, the CTS needs to get on a diet fast. The next 5-series is going to be crazy good, if Cadillac wants to compete with it, they need have a lot of work to do. The 535d is coming here, it is just as fast as a CTS and gets better gas mileage than an Aveo or Malibu Hybrid, not to mention a twin turbo V10 M5. I am still waiting (and hoping) for Cadillac to get the hardware to compete with the upper echelon of luxury cars.

new accord interior is merely average. it is awash in 90's matte black plastic and has a tired rice oriented design which will not play well with conservative buyers. it's plasticky.

even though the G35 beat the CTS in that one test, you'll also notice they said the CTS has the nicer interior. for many people that is what they want. and it has more accomodations. and is more stylish. some track numbers being a bit off the G35 won't hurt it. CTS sales were up WHAT PERCENT last month?

Edited November 3, 2007 by regfootball

[smk4565]

Well the Enclave isn't the best in class either, the Mazda CX-9 gets better reviews than it. The Lambdas suffer from the same weight problem as the CTS. Reputation of cars/brands is huge, I agree that is why Lexus sells cars and Buick and Pontiac don't. GM's brands needs a better reputation, to do that they need to dump low image models, mainly the cars that are fleet sale gods.

Camry has reputation on it's side, so it can outsell the Accord, Malibu doesn't, so it better be the benchmark if they want to get new buyers, otherwise the import lovers will just buy more imports.

I know the CTS doesn't compete with the 5-series, as much as some people want it to, but it doesn't really compete with the 3-series either, because of the huge performance gap. The Cadillac lineup is all messed up, GM's slow transition and too many models to fix is hurting their chances to truly compete with the imports.

[smk4565]

new accord interior is merely average. it is awash in 90's matte black plastic and has a tired rice oriented design which will not play well with conservative buyers. it's plasticky.

even though the G35 beat the CTS in that one test, you'll also notice they said the CTS has the nicer interior. for many people that is what they want. and it has more accomodations. and is more stylish. some track numbers being a bit off the G35 won't hurt it. CTS sales were up WHAT PERCENT last month?

I agree that interior and exterior style are most important to most people, but the car's weight hurts it. The CTS's track numbers are well behind it's competitors except for the C-class, and the CTS's gas mileage is rather so-so as well.

Sales were up a ton over the old model that has slowing sales toward the end. Plus STS sales drop every month, the CTS I think it taking sales from it, as it should the STS is terrible, although it has nice seats, better than the little ones in the CTS.

[Drew Dowdell]

You are entitled to disagree, but I work with GM products everyday--the Malibu ads are everywhere--the cars are nowhere to be found---does that make sense to you?

Our region is shedding dealers at a 1 per quarter clip---is that good?

Monthly sales targets haven't been reached in my region in 2 years---they're currently at 75% for the year!

Impy v. Malibu will be cross-shopped by almost everyone--they're sitting across from each other in the same showroom! (& will for 2 model yrs, at least!)

I repeat: Where will the lost volume be regained?

Answer: It won't.

Malibu will get people who normally wouldn't consider a chevy into the showroom especially with reviews like that Edmunds review which basically calls the Camry stale. If they end up in an Impala instead...so what?

Dealers need to be shed. If Toyota can sell at it's volume with less than half the stores, so can GM.

[Drew Dowdell]

Toyota's quality will be fine I think, they don't get lazy or complacent. Even though they slipped they are still top 5 out of 37 car brands, it isn't like they are Dodge. Either way, if I were GM, I wouldn't be waiting for Toyota to screw up, I'd assume they are going to try hard, so we have to also. completely agree that GM needs to keep trying hard, but Toyota is still tripping over it's dick.

2008 Accord is better than the 2008 Malibu, Malibu looks better, Accord has better interior, more power, more fuel economy, more resale value and about 16 years in a row of 10 Best awards from every car mag there is. The Malibu is a big improvement, better than most, but not the class benchmark. Accord isn't going to go up much more than it already is. Sales are not going to rocket up. They'll get all the 2004 Accord drivers coming in on lease and a few disgruntled Camry owners and that's about it. There is nothing new or compelling about the car. It's a missmash of asian design cues that ends up just looking awkward. Malibu has no where to go but up.

How many Malibus are sold in Europe and Asia? To beat Honda and Toyota, they need to sell them outside the US, and go for 500,000+ per year world wide. Great cars sell at that level. (without rental fleet sales) Does it only count if it's the same name? Opel and Vauxhall have the Vectra

Buick sales are down 23% this year, the Lexus RX easily outsells the Enclave and the Lexus is more dated and costs a lot more. If I am GM, I am not looking toward Buick to ensure a good future. Enclave is also new and unknown relative to the RX. Give it time... it'll start outselling it' Lexus rival just like the Lucerne does.

CTS has the best styling theme of any entry to middle luxury car, however use of cheap gray plastic and cheap base wheels (and lack of fog lights on base car) leads to an average execution of a great design.

And Road and Track just rated the G35 better than the CTS, the CTS needs to get on a diet fast. The next 5-series is going to be crazy good, if Cadillac wants to compete with it, they need have a lot of work to do. The 535d is coming here, it is just as fast as a CTS and gets better gas mileage than an Aveo or Malibu Hybrid, not to mention a twin turbo V10 M5. I am still waiting (and hoping) for Cadillac to get the hardware to compete with the upper echelon of luxury cars.

Didn't they rate the G35 better than the 3-series also? The CTS is 5-series/M35 sized. Of course it's going to be heavier than the 3-series/G35. When you get a bigger car it tends to weigh more. :doh: Don't tell me we're going to start rating cars on pounds per dollar....

[Drew Dowdell]

Well the Enclave isn't the best in class either, the Mazda CX-9 gets better reviews than it. WTF? Enclave is being called the best luxury crossover ever. The Lambdas suffer from the same weight problem as the CTS. Reputation of cars/brands is huge, I agree that is why Lexus sells cars and Buick and Pontiac don't. GM's brands needs a better reputation, to do that they need to dump low image models, mainly the cars that are fleet sale gods.

Camry has reputation on it's side, so it can outsell the Accord, Malibu doesn't, so it better be the benchmark if they want to get new buyers, otherwise the import lovers will just buy more imports. Accord is the benchmark... why is it outsold by the Camry?

I know the CTS doesn't compete with the 5-series, as much as some people want it to, but it doesn't really compete with the 3-series either, because of the huge performance gap. The Cadillac lineup is all messed up, GM's slow transition and too many models to fix is hurting their chances to truly compete with the imports.

There isn't a *huge* performance gap between the CTS and 3-series. The performance gap would only be noticed on the track and in *some* stoplight drag races.

[smk4565]

Didn't they rate the G35 better than the 3-series also? The CTS is 5-series/M35 sized. Of course it's going to be heavier than the 3-series/G35. When you get a bigger car it tends to weigh more. :doh: Don't tell me we're going to start rating cars on pounds per dollar....

1 magazine once said a G35 was better than a 3-series mainly because it costs less. But the 335i is still the gold standard of small luxury cars by pretty much everyone. CTS lacks equipment and V8 power to be compared to the 5-series and that class, but if it lost to a G35, I would think an M35 would also beat it, and probably worse, the performance numbers would get closer, but the CTS's edge in features/interior would go away.

The CTS (4 inches longer than the G35) is still heavier than a BMW 535i or 550i, it was 4150 pounds as tested in Road and Track, that is obese, it is more than an STS V8. Next 5-series is going to use a lot of aluminum and carbon fiber to cut weight, (or at least keep it the same when they add luxury features and sound deadening). A Jaguar XJ8 is just under 3800 pounds, and is 9 inches longer than the CTS and has a V8, yet 350 pounds less. Cadillac needs to invest it weight reduction, then handling, acceleration and gas mileage all go up.

[enzl]

Saying that the Malibu won't net any sales increase is pretty ridiculous. Impala sales may fall as a result of the Malibu stealing some of its sales, but you are suggesting that the Malibu won't take in any conquest buyers, which is ridiculous to think after reading the review.

Car companies advertise cars before they're out quite often. The Mazda3 had ads on New Year's day every five minutes shortly before it came out. The Silverado also had ads before it came out, if I remember correctly.

Seeing as how the car isn't even at dealers yet (at least not many), I'd say it's pretty good that you say that buyers have come in asking about it.

I never said that Malibu sales won't boost total volume, I stated that the overall outlook for GM's lineup increasing volume sales is unlikely.

Just some reasons:

For every Malibu sale, some Impala sales will be lost. Buick's 2 volume sedan entries are down over 20% this year...wanna take a guess as to next years shrinkage?

Pontiac is getting 30k G8's...but the Grand Prix is a rental queen already, the G6 is trending downward (again) and Pontiac will also sell 0 minivans, fewer Torrents and the G5 is just an abomination.

Caddy will double CTS sales, but the STS will continue to stink up the joint, the DTS will continue its descent and the Caddy trucks are a bad commodities day away from irrelevance.

Factor in a shrinking, super-competitve large truck market, new entries from Dodge & Ford and a sh!tty housing market and you're again one Israeli missle strike away from complete disaster.

I will only concede that the non-US operations are a bright spot--but GM has never depended upon said operations to keep the ship afloat. That's a tough point to hand your hopes on--and that's where it's at, IMO>

[smk4565]

Buick calls the Enclave the finest crossover ever, no automotive publication does. I say the SRX is way better, MDX is better, Motor trend said the CX-9 was better. The BMW X5 is a crossover, I think that is better than an Enclave too.

I think the Camry has really poor handling and has always been bland, but I will say most of their materials are good for the price and their gap fits are tight. Overall I think it is an average car, but they have an unbelievable brand image going that keeps buyers coming in. The Accord is the best car in the segment, hopefully the Malibu can become #2 (based on reviews, not sales).

Performance: 335i/CTS DI

0-60 5.0/6.0 seconds

1/3 mile 13.5/14.5 seconds

skidpad .90g/.86g

slalom 68.7/66.6 mph

60-0 119/118 feet

gas mileage 18.9/17.2 mpg

sound at 70mph 66dBA/68dBA

weight balance 51/49 for BMW, 57/43 on CTS

BMW has a 12 year rust warranty which is rather impressive, I didn't know anyone offered more than 6 year until I saw that. The CTS is just beat by that car except breaking, although very few cars match up well to BMW.

[smk4565]

A volume drop could be good if it means less fleet sales. They sold 229,000 retail and 81,000 fleet, that is a lot of fleet sales in one month, it is 25% of their sales. They need to get that to 15%, maybe make G5 and G6 75% fleet so they can stop fleeting Chevys. It is the rental market that kills it, I don't think the taxi/police cars make any difference. But it also hurts when import drivers rent a car, and it is a base Impala that handles like there is jello in the suspension and has horrid gray cloth, then they think American cars and junk, and can't wait to have their import back when the vacation is over.

[plane]

Toyota's quality will be fine I think, they don't get lazy or complacent. Even though they slipped they are still top 5 out of 37 car brands, it isn't like they are Dodge. Either way, if I were GM, I wouldn't be waiting for Toyota to screw up, I'd assume they are going to try hard, so we have to also.

Exactly.

2008 Accord is better than the 2008 Malibu, Malibu looks better, Accord has better interior, more power, more fuel economy, more resale value and about 16 years in a row of 10 Best awards from every car mag there is. The Malibu is a big improvement, better than most, but not the class benchmark.....

In some cases, it is now the class benchmark. The reviews have been nothing short of amazing for a domestic vehicle.

Buick sales are down 23% this year, the Lexus RX easily outsells the Enclave and the Lexus is more dated and costs a lot more. If I am GM, I am not looking toward Buick to ensure a good future.....

Everything else aside, this I have real heartburn with. The Lambdas have been out how long? And how many reviews have thrashed these? The triplets are competitive and sales should only continue to climb, especially as more people become aware of these class-leading vehicles. It will be interesting to see how long a superior product will undersell a dated, more expensive and arguably less capable vehicle.

[FloydHendershot]

I never said that Malibu sales won't boost total volume, I stated that the overall outlook for GM's lineup increasing volume sales is unlikely.

Just some reasons:

For every Malibu sale, some Impala sales will be lost. Buick's 2 volume sedan entries are down over 20% this year...wanna take a guess as to next years shrinkage?

Pontiac is getting 30k G8's...but the Grand Prix is a rental queen already, the G6 is trending downward (again) and Pontiac will also sell 0 minivans, fewer Torrents and the G5 is just an abomination.

Caddy will double CTS sales, but the STS will continue to stink up the joint, the DTS will continue its descent and the Caddy trucks are a bad commodities day away from irrelevance.

Factor in a shrinking, super-competitve large truck market, new entries from Dodge & Ford and a sh!tty housing market and you're again one Israeli missle strike away from complete disaster.

I will only concede that the non-US operations are a bright spot--but GM has never depended upon said operations to keep the ship afloat. That's a tough point to hand your hopes on--and that's where it's at, IMO>

The Cobalt looks good as a Pontiac.

[regfootball]

Well the Enclave isn't the best in class either, the Mazda CX-9 gets better reviews than it. The Lambdas suffer from the same weight problem as the CTS. Reputation of cars/brands is huge, I agree that is why Lexus sells cars and Buick and Pontiac don't. GM's brands needs a better reputation, to do that they need to dump low image models, mainly the cars that are fleet sale gods.

Camry has reputation on it's side, so it can outsell the Accord, Malibu doesn't, so it better be the benchmark if they want to get new buyers, otherwise the import lovers will just buy more imports.

I know the CTS doesn't compete with the 5-series, as much as some people want it to, but it doesn't really compete with the 3-series either, because of the huge performance gap. The Cadillac lineup is all messed up, GM's slow transition and too many models to fix is hurting their chances to truly compete with the imports.

all crossovers have weight issues. one of the recent road tests i read of the cx-9, it tipped the scales at 4600 pounds.

the lambdas are not much more. plus they have more cargo area and 3rd row space so the tradeoff is ok.

i am not sure why the CTS has to be an exact equal to the 335 in terms of performance. the CTS holds up pretty well versus most versions of the 3 series while having a far superior interior. again, not everyone buying a luxury marque needs track performance. the CTS holds its own on the track and in its price class provides a unique combination of luxury, features, usable space, and design, that the spartan 3 series cannot. if you want your 3 series to feel luxurious, you gotta pay 50k.

[regfootball]

I never said that Malibu sales won't boost total volume, I stated that the overall outlook for GM's lineup increasing volume sales is unlikely.

Just some reasons:

For every Malibu sale, some Impala sales will be lost. Buick's 2 volume sedan entries are down over 20% this year...wanna take a guess as to next years shrinkage?

Pontiac is getting 30k G8's...but the Grand Prix is a rental queen already, the G6 is trending downward (again) and Pontiac will also sell 0 minivans, fewer Torrents and the G5 is just an abomination.

Caddy will double CTS sales, but the STS will continue to stink up the joint, the DTS will continue its descent and the Caddy trucks are a bad commodities day away from irrelevance.

Factor in a shrinking, super-competitve large truck market, new entries from Dodge & Ford and a sh!tty housing market and you're again one Israeli missle strike away from complete disaster.

I will only concede that the non-US operations are a bright spot--but GM has never depended upon said operations to keep the ship afloat. That's a tough point to hand your hopes on--and that's where it's at, IMO>

DTS was up nearly 18 percent.

[regfootball]

Buick calls the Enclave the finest crossover ever, no automotive publication does. I say the SRX is way better, MDX is better, Motor trend said the CX-9 was better. The BMW X5 is a crossover, I think that is better than an Enclave too.

I think the Camry has really poor handling and has always been bland, but I will say most of their materials are good for the price and their gap fits are tight. Overall I think it is an average car, but they have an unbelievable brand image going that keeps buyers coming in. The Accord is no longer the best car in the segment, hopefully the Malibu can become #2 (based on reviews, not sales).

Performance: 335i/CTS DI

0-60 5.0/6.0 seconds

1/3 mile 13.5/14.5 seconds

skidpad .90g/.86g

slalom 68.7/66.6 mph

60-0 119/118 feet

gas mileage 18.9/17.2 mpg

sound at 70mph 66dBA/68dBA

weight balance 51/49 for BMW, 57/43 on CTS

BMW has a 12 year rust warranty which is rather impressive, I didn't know anyone offered more than 6 year until I saw that. The CTS is just beat by that car except breaking, although very few cars match up well to BMW.

12 year rust warranty....hmmmm....too bad so many beemer engines need work over time.

you always want to compare the 335i but fact is not all 3 series buyers buy a 335. many buy 328's or 325's or 330's or whatever effed up designations that they dream up.

check the weight balance on the cts. i do not believe your 57/43 is right.

[Chevy Nick]

I didn't fully realize until I read this, how comprehensive GM's vehicle lineup is. You guys find a car in every segment that's better than a GM offering, but every example is from a different company. You compare the Malibu to something from Toyota, the Enclave to something from Mazda, the CTS to something from BMW or Infiniti, and there is no equal to GM's truck offerings. I think that says alot of good things about GM and its future. I would love to see somebody try to show one manufacturer that is better than GM across their entire lineup.