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So I go to Foreign Car & Import Driver.com

FUTURE_OF_GM

By FUTURE_OF_GM
in The Lounge

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FUTURE_OF_GM Newbie

FUTURE_OF_GM

Posted
Posted (edited)

In the wake of the popularity of the Lambdas and GM's switch to crossovers in favor of minivans, C&D has this on their front page:

"Why buy a crossover -- Five concrete reasons to buy a minivan instead." (Including, SURPRISE, GM's best selling Lambda as the poster child for and a subject of the article)

LINK: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/14267...-crossover.html

Do I think this is a direct result of the Lambdas and their popularity? Probably not. Do I think it might've weighed into C&D's decision to write the piece AND use GM as the poster boy? Absolutely.

Notcie how all of the japanese companies are merely tranferred sales from one model to another. Yet, GM the only american company targeted, is compared to what appears to be the new standard for minivans and is the only company compared to a competitor. Also keep in mind how hot the Lambdas are right now as 2 of them were in the top 10 in demand for September and the fact that the entire article pretty much has zero substance.

:scratchchin:

Yep, there's no bias at all in the media anymore....

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
Mr.Krinkle Newbie

Mr.Krinkle

Posted
Posted

Gm doesnt have a minivan to compare.

Gm said their crossover will replace the minivan.

They suggested a Dodge so are there varying degrees of media bias against domestics or did they write this

before Cerberus took over?

as a side note, they said the hyundai compared to the Lexus is a steal--

pow Newbie

pow

Posted
Posted

In the wake of the popularity of the Lambdas and GM's switch to crossovers in favor of minivans, C&D has this on their front page:

"Why buy a crossover -- Five concrete reasons to buy a minivan instead." (Including, SURPRISE, GM's best selling Lambda as the poster child for and a subject of the article)

LINK: http://www.caranddriver.com/features/14267...-crossover.html

Do I think this is a direct result of the Lambdas and their popularity? Probably not. Do I think it might've weighed into C&D's decision to write the piece AND use GM as the poster boy? Absolutely.

Notcie how all of the japanese companies are merely tranferred sales from one model to another. Yet, GM the only american company targeted, is compared to what appears to be the new standard for minivans and is the only company compared to a competitor. Also keep in mind how hot the Lambdas are right now as 2 of them were in the top 10 in demand for September and the fact that the entire article pretty much has zero substance.

:scratchchin:

Yep, there's no bias at all in the media anymore....

:rolleyes:

Even before CROSSOVERS WERE INVENTED, C&D has always been extolling the virtues of MINIVANS over SUVs. I've been a subscriber for 8 years. This is absolutely nothing new and definitely NOT intended to be ANTI f@#kING GM.

Hell, C&D is one of the GREATEST GM SUPPORTERS if their products are done well. I've read nothing but positive reviews from them over CTSes, LAMBDAS, and Silverados. Their editor in chief is a friggin' anti-CAFE, Corvette-loving GM fanboy.

Hudson Newbie

Hudson

Posted
Posted

Do I think this is a direct result of the Lambdas and their popularity? Probably not. Do I think it might've weighed into C&D's decision to write the piece AND use GM as the poster boy? Absolutely.

Notcie how all of the japanese companies are merely tranferred sales from one model to another. Yet, GM the only american company targeted, is compared to what appears to be the new standard for minivans and is the only company compared to a competitor. Also keep in mind how hot the Lambdas are right now as 2 of them were in the top 10 in demand for September and the fact that the entire article pretty much has zero substance.

:scratchchin:

Yep, there's no bias at all in the media anymore....

I'm not buying your argument. Did you miss the earlier articles arguing that the minivan was dead? Couldn't this simply be a response to THAT topic? And couldn't the use of a GM Lambda "as the poster child" just go back to your point that they're popular AND GM has called them their minivan replacements?

By the way, the cover vehicle when I pulled up the site shows a Hyundai Veracruz.

Also, when I looked up the sales to see just "how hot the Lambdas are right now," the THREE Lambda vehicles combined didn't come close to the sales of the Dodge Caravan or the Honda Odyssey and it took two of them to top the sales of the Toyota Sienna in September. What "top 10" list are you talking about since the sales of all three wouldn't put them near the top 10 in sales.

I think that you folks are just LOOKING for bias, when it's just not there. Sure, writers have preferences and like reading movie reviews or political publications, you need to know who agrees with your opinions for you to enjoy reading. But I don't see Car and Driver as this "anti-GM" or "anti-Big3" magazine. But, then again, I have the audacity to read publications, drive vehicles, and write articles with an open mind.

Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted

:rolleyes:

Even before CROSSOVERS WERE INVENTED, C&D has always been extolling the virtues of MINIVANS over SUVs. I've been a subscriber for 8 years.

Yes, for most people that use SUVs as family haulers, a minivan makes more sense than an SUV...the SUV is purely an image choice for 99% of buyers (compared to the 1% that actually use the off road capability).

Satty Newbie

Satty

Posted
Posted

C&D once ranked the Pontiac Montana ahead of the Sienna, Caravan and Windstar in a 4-van comparo. This sounds like some foolish hunting for something that doesn't really exist.

Z-06 Newbie

Z-06

Posted
Posted (edited)

:rolleyes:

Even before CROSSOVERS WERE INVENTED, C&D has always been extolling the virtues of MINIVANS over SUVs. I've been a subscriber for 8 years. This is absolutely nothing new and definitely NOT intended to be ANTI f@#kING GM.

Hell, C&D is one of the GREATEST GM SUPPORTERS if their products are done well. I've read nothing but positive reviews from them over CTSes, LAMBDAS, and Silverados. Their editor in chief is a friggin' anti-CAFE, Corvette-loving GM fanboy.

I agree, as much as folks here do not respect C&D it is the least biased and probably pro Detroit. Csaba Csere on many a times on his blog and in his editorial has shown pro GM and pro-Detriot sentiment.

If they were biased, they would have still found ways to put a "faulty" CTS-V ahead of their shaggers BMW M3 and M5. Here is something for the old CTS-V

Highs: Supersedan punch, knife-edge handling, lots of space, loaded with goodies.

Lows: Tricky to launch, electronic hysteria, reluctant shifter.

The Verdict: An all-American bahn stormer that's arguably the best buy in its class.

That says something, putting it ahead of those German snob machines.

If you want to reek bias, look no further than crapmunds, Automobile Rag, Motor Trend.

And regarding this comparo,

1. C&D does not like SUVs. Hell they even screwed their poster child company- BMW's X3, and compared it to be worse than the 325T and that it made no sense to have a SUV when a wagon can do the job.

2. Despite of Lambdas being excellent products, which C&D does not deny, they cannot compete with the practicality of a Mini-Van for a family. I honestly think GM lost it big when they decided against having the fourth Lambda as a minivan. The three SUVs and Chevy Minivan on Lambda would have been a 1-2 KO.

Edited by smallchevy
VenSeattle Newbie

VenSeattle

Posted
Posted

I think that you folks are just LOOKING for bias, when it's just not there.

Everyone is entitled to their individual opinion. Just because one person may feel this way, it doesn't mean everyone on C&G feels this way.

In general, please refrain from stereotyping remarks. This is a rather diverse community.

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

Posted
Posted

As has been said, it seems more like you're looking for an argument just for the sake of one. GM has no minivan to compare their Crossover to and Dodge has no CUV to compare their minivan to...so they compared the two vehicles.

The Acadia is on the link to the article but in the actual article the first image is a Veracruz.

They are not being bias...as good as the Lambdas are they are no match for the Caravan in terms of most practical and space efficiency.

plane Newbie

plane

Posted
Posted

What an incredible coincidence.

Suddenly GM and Ford don't have minivans.

What a great time to write this article.

Nissan vs Nissan.

Hyundai vs. Hyundai.

GM versus a Domestic Competitor.

Past, present and future articles are irrelevant.

The issue is this article and this article only.

Liars, cheaters, and domestic-hating journalists rejoice, for great is your reward in the burning afterlife.

Congratulations, for you groundhog day meets blind dates from #$#@.

Posted Image

Intrepidation

Intrepidation

Posted
Posted

What an incredible coincidence.

Suddenly GM and Ford don't have minivans.

What a great time to write this article.

Nissan vs Nissan.

Hyundai vs. Hyundai.

GM versus a Domestic Competitor.

Past, present and future articles are irrelevant.

The issue is this article and this article only.

Liars, cheaters, and domestic-hating journalists rejoice, for great is your reward in the burning afterlife.

Congratulations, for you groundhog day meets blind dates from #$#@.

Posted Image

Well that image is disturbing. Anyway, C&D has been saying for a long time what anyone with half a brain already knows: Minivans are functionally superior to any CUV. It's not domestic hating if they choose another domestic over the GM. It's not C&D's fault they had no GM minivan to compare it to.

Hudson Newbie

Hudson

Posted
Posted

Everyone is entitled to their individual opinion. Just because one person may feel this way, it doesn't mean everyone on C&G feels this way.

In general, please refrain from stereotyping remarks. This is a rather diverse community.

What kind of stretch was it to stereotype people on a GM fan site as being GM fans?
Hudson Newbie

Hudson

Posted
Posted

What an incredible coincidence.

Suddenly GM and Ford don't have minivans.

What a great time to write this article.

I think that was kind of the point. GM and Ford have ABANDON the minivan segment where EACH of them were selling 150,000+ minivans at one time. Both have moved away from this segment, leaving it for Honda and Toyota and Hyundai/Kia and Chrysler and instead moving toward crossovers (which the other manufacturers ALSO have). If GM and Ford are full-line manufacturers, shouldn't they also play in this field with competitive offerings instead of the dated and misdirected products they had? If there was a million+ segment that Honda or Toyota walked away from and C&D wrote about that, you (people on this site, not necessarily Plane in particular) would talk about the "pro GM" direction that Car & Driver was "suddenly" taking.
FUTURE_OF_GM Newbie

FUTURE_OF_GM

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Hell, C&D is one of the GREATEST GM SUPPORTERS if their products are done well. I've read nothing but positive reviews from them over CTSes, LAMBDAS, and Silverados. Their editor in chief is a friggin' anti-CAFE, Corvette-loving GM fanboy.

:rotflmao:

Oh wait, you weren't kidding this time either :blink:

By the way, the cover vehicle when I pulled up the site shows a Hyundai Veracruz.

I was talking about the front page of C&D.

Also, when I looked up the sales to see just "how hot the Lambdas are right now," the THREE Lambda vehicles combined didn't come close to the sales of the Dodge Caravan or the Honda Odyssey and it took two of them to top the sales of the Toyota Sienna in September. What "top 10" list are you talking about since the sales of all three wouldn't put them near the top 10 in sales.
This one: http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119...6664555529.html
I think that you folks are just LOOKING for bias, when it's just not there. Sure, writers have preferences and like reading movie reviews or political publications, you need to know who agrees with your opinions for you to enjoy reading. But I don't see Car and Driver as this "anti-GM" or "anti-Big3" magazine. But, then again, I have the audacity to read publications, drive vehicles, and write articles with an open mind.

Good. Although, like most of the beloved insiders here, I wouldn't ever accuse you of being on GM's side.

Getting a bit adjective-happy there?
It's my 'style'
This is a rant looking for something to rant about.

Close, but not exactly...

As has been said, it seems more like you're looking for an argument just for the sake of one. GM has no minivan to compare their Crossover to and Dodge has no CUV to compare their minivan to...so they compared the two vehicles.
IMO, the Pacifica should've been used against the T&C. Sure, it isn't a crossover, per se, but it's close enough. And C&D is the king of apples to oranges comparisons.
What an incredible coincidence.

Suddenly GM and Ford don't have minivans.

What a great time to write this article.

Nissan vs Nissan.

Hyundai vs. Hyundai.

GM versus a Domestic Competitor.

Past, present and future articles are irrelevant.

The issue is this article and this article only.

:yes:

you (people on this site, not necessarily Plane in particular) would talk about the "pro GM" direction that Car & Driver was "suddenly" taking.

I hope you're not talking about me, because I've never been 'pro' C&D and never will be. (At least I admit my bias)

*** Anyway, all I'm saying is that I found a lot of those coincidences interesting. Is it causation (i.e. did a hatred for the domestics cause this article to appear?) Probably not. Is it correlated to the larger mindset that domestics aren't as good as product 'X'? Of course!

And that has been my explanation of the media all along; the bias is subconciuos and learned through years of "bad" product/strategy, supposedly from the domestic producers.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
VenSeattle Newbie

VenSeattle

Posted
Posted

What kind of stretch was it to stereotype people on a GM fan site as being GM fans?

You're posting here aren't you? You're included when someone else groups or stereotypes "C&G members."

Reread all the comments in this topic for reference. Several members (and GM fans) on C&G disagree with FOG's opinion, so your stretch was too thin.

In general, I wasn't targeting you to be critical, but just to remind people that most opinions on C&G differ greatly, even with the GM fans. We've had topics discussing "What would you do if you ran GM", "Which Brands Should Go", "Should Rick Stay?", and thousands of topics discussing various car reviews. Many think Bias and many don't. These topics usually cover a complete spectrum without the assistance of some martyr trying to be the lone voice of reason dispelling the community’s observations while condemning the board as a single close-minded think-tank or committee.

Hudson Newbie

Hudson

Posted
Posted

Although, like most of the beloved insiders here, I wouldn't ever accuse you of being on GM's side.

No...not unless it's deserved. I've defended GM when it was deserved and taken shots at them when it was deserved. I'm not drinking anyone's "kool-aid."
K.C. Newbie

K.C.

Posted
Posted

No...not unless it's deserved. I've defended GM when it was deserved and taken shots at them when it was deserved. I'm not drinking anyone's "kool-aid."

Posted Image

bowtie_dude Newbie

bowtie_dude

Posted
Posted

Why buy a crossover over a minivan? Because minivans SUCK, thats why. A real man would never EVER own a minivan unless his shrew of a wife convinced him to. They are the epitomy of dorky and ugly and are a blight upon autodom.

andretti Newbie

andretti

Posted
Posted

It's the whole "I'm a male driving a mini-van image!", that's bad, I mean really bad. You will never catch me in one. :rolleyes:

If your masculinity is so fragile that the vehicle you drive could negatively impact it, then you shouldn't drive a minivan

vonVeezelsnider Newbie

vonVeezelsnider

Posted
Posted

Why buy a crossover over a minivan? Because minivans SUCK, thats why. A real man would never EVER own a minivan unless his shrew of a wife convinced him to. They are the epitomy of dorky and ugly and are a blight upon autodom.

My dad likes driving a minivan... I guess he's just as much a dork as I am. My mom wanted to get a Caprice Estate in 1994 but my dad was so gung ho on the Trans Sport there was no convincing him otherwise.

Hudson Newbie

Hudson

Posted
Posted

If your masculinity is so fragile that the vehicle you drive could negatively impact it, then you shouldn't drive a minivan

I couldn't have said it better myself. And people such as this should beware of standing too close to Volkswagen Cabrios.
Robert Hall Veteran

Robert Hall

Posted
Posted

I couldn't have said it better myself. And people such as this should beware of standing too close to Volkswagen Cabrios.

I'm secure enough in my masculinity to have driven a 52-hp diesel Escort in my younger days.. :)

Hudson Newbie

Hudson

Posted
Posted

I'm secure enough in my masculinity to have driven a 52-hp diesel Escort in my younger days.. :)

Automatic....and pink...with a Hello Kitty bumper sticker? THAT would try your masculinity.
FUTURE_OF_GM Newbie

FUTURE_OF_GM

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

If your masculinity is so fragile that the vehicle you drive could negatively impact it, then you shouldn't drive a minivan

I think he has a valid point, and so do all of the automakers apparently.

Wasn't the Xover invented for this very reason. Heck, the Element was even marketed (with it's doors) as a direct alternative to minivans.

Unfortunately, image is everything in style-concious america.

I probably would never drive a minivan, but mostly that's because I'll never have 3 kids or a load of crap to carry around either.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM

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