GM To Layoff 767 At Poletown Plant

[Shantanu]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...0451/1148/rss25

I was last in a Deville 4 years ago, and it was painfullly out of date then. Hell it was painfully out of date 10 years ago. But now there's so few WWI generation folks around to buy them. Couldn't GM see the sales plummeting? They've had several years to do something about it, because the Deville sales have been falling off for a long time.

What are they going to do with the 767 laid off? Put them on the jobs bank? Pay $200,000 to buy them out of their contracts?

It's like 1 step forward, 1 step back for GM.

The sad thing is, it really wouldn't have taken that much to keep the Deville/Lucerne in the game. I think they could have gotten by with a *basic* AWD system and one of their own new FWD 6-speed transmissions.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Shantanu

[ellives]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...0451/1148/rss25

I was last in a Deville 4 years ago, and it was painfullly out of date then. Hell it was painfully out of date 10 years ago. But now there's so few WWI generation folks around to buy them. Couldn't GM see the sales plummeting? They've had several years to do something about it, because the Deville sales have been falling off for a long time.

What are they going to do with the 767 laid off? Put them on the jobs bank? Pay $200,000 to buy them out of their contracts?

It's like 1 step forward, 1 step back for GM.

The sad thing is, it really wouldn't have taken that much to keep the Deville/Lucerne in the game. I think they could have gotten by with a *basic* AWD system and one of their own new FWD 6-speed transmissions.

Huh? *We're* scratching our heads at this comment.... (wouldn't have taken that much...) They have "gotten by" for over 20 years which is what got them where they are. The DeVille/DTS product needs a complete redesign with a RWD platform.... AWD should be there but the priority is RWD.

They're finally getting serious about keeping the value up on their product by avoiding the annual "giveaway" cycle at the end of the product year to clear out the old stock. Good for them. Too bad they're competing with cash rich Toyota who can afford to take a loss on their garbage Tundra product every time one ships out the door. Eventually they'll move all their production offshore and kill the UAW for good - Then they'll be able to compete with Toyota.

[AxelTheRed]

Huh? *We're* scratching our heads at this comment.... (wouldn't have taken that much...) They have "gotten by" for over 20 years which is what got them where they are. The DeVille/DTS product needs a complete redesign with a RWD platform.... AWD should be there but the priority is RWD.

They're finally getting serious about keeping the value up on their product by avoiding the annual "giveaway" cycle at the end of the product year to clear out the old stock. Good for them. Too bad they're competing with cash rich Toyota who can afford to take a loss on their garbage Tundra product every time one ships out the door. Eventually they'll move all their production offshore and kill the UAW for good - Then they'll be able to compete with Toyota.

GM has no problem competing with Toyota when they build competitive products.

[ellives]

GM has no problem competing with Toyota when they build competitive products.

This statement is redundant.

We all know GM can build product that can be competitive with Toyota. The question is whether they can make money at it while the UAW albatross is hanging around their necks.

[AxelTheRed]

This statement is redundant.

We all know GM can build product that can be competitive with Toyota. The question is whether they can make money at it while the UAW albatross is hanging around their necks.

Yes they can. In fact, they prove it all the bleeding time.

And wasn't the albatross good luck until someone killed it?

Edited October 20, 2007 by AxelTheRed

[ellives]

Yes they can. In fact, they prove it all the bleeding time.

And wasn't the albatross good luck until someone killed it?

They may prove they can build and sell certain models but their overall profitability has been marginal for 2 decades. He who makes the most profit wins.

[Shantanu]

Obviously the Deville should have been RWD, with optional V12, a "Standard of the World" to rape not only the Mercedes S-class but give serious competition to Bentley as well... But realistically speaking, GM had to do with what they had, in a segment that competes against the Toyota Avalon, Lexus ES, Lincoln Town Car, Chrysler 300, etc.

That said though, GM really neglected their best seller over at Cadillac. How hard would it be to add a *basic* AWD system like the kind that Volvo uses or even the kind found on many Lexus vehicles, which shifts like 5% power to the rear wheels in slippage? How hard would it have been to use GM's *own* FWD 6-speed transmission on the Deville? It's terrible neglect.

[Shantanu]

Obviously the Deville should have been RWD, with optional V12, a "Standard of the World" to rape not only the Mercedes S-class but give serious competition to Bentley as well... But realistically speaking, GM had to do with what they had, in a segment that competes against the Toyota Avalon, Lexus ES, Lincoln Town Car, Chrysler 300, etc.

That said though, GM really neglected their best seller over at Cadillac. How hard would it be to add a *basic* AWD system like the kind that Volvo uses or even the kind found on many Lexus vehicles, which shifts like 5% power to the rear wheels in slippage? How hard would it have been to use GM's *own* FWD 6-speed transmission on the Deville? It's terrible neglect.

[AxelTheRed]

They may prove they can build and sell certain models but their overall profitability has been marginal for 2 decades. He who makes the most profit wins.

Their overall profitability has been marginal for two decades because they've lost nearly 20% of the market in that time. GM's marketshare has fallen faster than they can downsize.

Edited October 20, 2007 by AxelTheRed

[Shantanu]

This statement is redundant.

We all know GM can build product that can be competitive with Toyota. The question is whether they can make money at it while the UAW albatross is hanging around their necks.

I'm no fan of the UAW, but they build what they are told to. The lack of any real mechanical updates to the Deville is a purely engineering/management problem.

[longtooth]

I'm no fan of the UAW, but they build what they are told to. The lack of any real mechanical updates to the Deville is a purely engineering/management problem.

In discussions, have heard many times that the DeVille is a 'gentlemans' ride. I think it'd benefit from a more compact exterior, content upgrade, and a striking physical shape as much at home slipping powerfully through the atmosphere, or subtly brute enough to pulverize a brick wall and emerge unscathed. This is the feeling evoked when I see the new CTS. Why can't that magic be worked on the 'grand daddy caddy'?

Since I have no shame, I ask, am I alone in feeling as this?

[ZL-1]

Since I have no shame, I ask, am I alone in feeling as this?

No. I think the big Caddy desperatley needs attention and what Cadillac has done with the CTS is doable once the DTS and STS are merged into a single Cadillac flagship.

On another note... Poletown? not to offend it's citizens, but that does not evoke automobile assembling... it reminds me of something involving dancing

Edited October 21, 2007 by ZL-1

[Shantanu]

No. I think the big Caddy desperatley needs attention and what Cadillac has done with the CTS is doable once the DTS and STS are merged into a single Cadillac flagship.

On another note... Poletown? not to offend it's citizens, but that does not evoke automobile assembling... it reminds me of something involving dancing

It's a Polish neighborhood in Detroit.

[daves87rs]

Anyways, looking past the retarded comments, this is going to be another nasty blow to the local ecomony in the Metro Detroit area...Many were surprised that it would be so many...

My dad is one of the lucky ones-he just moves to the day shift.

Part of the reason this is happening to the clear "the extra fat" when the Volt gets there in a few years...GM is still not sure how the new Volt will sell...but if it does sell-some people might come back...

The other reason is that that the DTS production is going to end early next year-the cars sales have been dropping for months now-and GM wants to put the money into other Caddy products...There's still an interal fight within the plant to try the save the DTS and maybe a few more jobs.....Rumors of this have been going on in the plant for months....

If the Lucrene sales don't pick up-things might get interesting........

[daves87rs]

In discussions, have heard many times that the DeVille is a 'gentlemans' ride. I think it'd benefit from a more compact exterior, content upgrade, and a striking physical shape as much at home slipping powerfully through the atmosphere, or subtly brute enough to pulverize a brick wall and emerge unscathed. This is the feeling evoked when I see the new CTS. Why can't that magic be worked on the 'grand daddy caddy'?

Since I have no shame, I ask, am I alone in feeling as this?

No, it just needs to go away.

I don't know if you noticed, but there are very few "gentleman" left.....

and if there is a few, my guess is that they are driving Lexus.......

Heck, I don't even se as many panthers around any more....

[Polish_Kris]

It's a Polish neighborhood in Detroit.

Used to be, until they built the plant, as I read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poletown

Edited October 22, 2007 by Polish_Kris

[longtooth]

Used to be, until they built the plant, as I read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poletown

While working for Fisher Body (much later to become Delphi) in Trenton, NJ during the 70's, 80's and 90's, the best electricians, machine repairmen and millwrights were all Polish. They, plus all of their intricate knowledge of being able to diagnose, teardown and rebuild anything management could throw at them, are scattered to the four winds now. Just as 'Poletown' itself's just a memory now. Edited October 22, 2007 by longtooth

[Chicagoland]

Caddy is already planning to merge the DTS and STS into one RWD/AWD model line. So, the old time FWD platform is going away. The G body though isn't "20 years old", it only dates back the the first Olds Aurora, 1994.

And wasn't it revealed that the Chevy Volt is going to be built in Poletown?

[VenSeattle]

Caddy is already planning to merge the DTS and STS into one RWD/AWD model line. So, the old time FWD platform is going away. The G body though isn't "20 years old", it only dates back the the first Olds Aurora, 1994.

And wasn't it revealed that the Chevy Volt is going to be built in Poletown?

Yes. Those are all good points. The G Platform has been in production for 14-15 years. It is on the 2nd generation of vehicles. Most platforms last two generations and are then replaced. The generations for the G-Platform just run on an old school/staggered GM time line. The Aurora went two generations on the G-Platform. The Deville/DTS are on the 2nd generation. The Lucerne is actually the LeSabre/Park Avenue's 2nd generation on this platform. Riviera, Seville, and Bonneville only lasted one generation on the G-Platform.

Shantanu - If you haven't been in a DTS in 4 years, then you have missed the new interior. It is very nice and equal to its pricetag. The Platinum Edition is Jaw Dropping.

Let's be honest. GM needed to make these cut-backs at Hamtramck way before now... probably back in 2005 after the Seville and Bonneville died. The new contract finally allows GM to do so. One shift probably could have handled the production of the DTS and Lucerne from the 2006 model year onward.

[ellives]

Yes. Those are all good points. The G Platform has been in production for 14-15 years. It is on the 2nd generation of vehicles. Most platforms last two generations and are then replaced. The generations for the G-Platform just run on an old school/staggered GM time line. The Aurora went two generations on the G-Platform. The Deville/DTS are on the 2nd generation. The Lucerne is actually the LeSabre/Park Avenue's 2nd generation on this platform. Riviera, Seville, and Bonneville only lasted one generation on the G-Platform.

Shantanu - If you haven't been in a DTS in 4 years, then you have missed the new interior. It is very nice and equal to its pricetag. The Platinum Edition is Jaw Dropping.

Let's be honest. GM needed to make these cut-backs at Hamtramck way before now... probably back in 2005 after the Seville and Bonneville died. The new contract finally allows GM to do so. One shift probably could have handled the production of the DTS and Lucerne from the 2006 model year onward.

Maybe should have happened even sooner than 2005. The last Seville was built at the end of 2003 supposedly.

Still feels like a company retrenching rather than attacking.

[VenSeattle]

Maybe should have happened even sooner than 2005. The last Seville was built at the end of 2003 supposedly.

The Seville alone wouldn't warrant a shift deletion. All three were out of production in 2005, which was also when the plant was revamped for the next-gen G-Platform vehicles. It was a perfect time to delete a shift.

Still feels like a company retrenching rather than attacking.

GM doesn't need the same amount of workers as it did in 1970 to compete in the US market. Even the most profitable companies "retrench" where there are unnecessary expenses that can be eliminated. It's just good business practice. The whole point is that the timing isn't really because of DTS/Lucerne sales. The timing is because of the renegotiated Union contracts.

[daves87rs]

The Seville alone wouldn't warrant a shift deletion. All three were out of production in 2005, which was also when the plant was revamped for the next-gen G-Platform vehicles. It was a perfect time to delete a shift.

GM doesn't need the same amount of workers as it did in 1970 to compete in the US market. Even the most profitable companies "retrench" where there are unnecessary expenses that can be eliminated. It's just good business practice. The whole point is that the timing isn't really because of DTS/Lucerne sales. The timing is because of the renegotiated Union contracts.

Agreed. Sadly, D-ham has had too many people for quite a while now..