Buick 2006 - 2010

[wildcat]

This thread needs a cheerleader! Ahem...

Any reports of Buick's death are greatly exaggerated!

Buick has a beautiful new car, the Lucerne, being launched this Fall, including a big promotion planned on Martha Stewart's "Apprentice" tv show. With several first-time features and Buick's extended warranty, the Lucerne promises to be one of the most refined Buicks ever.

Then, in late 2007, an all-new Buick Rendezvous, on the Lambda platform, makes its debut. Based on the Centieme concept but described by insiders as even better, this is a Buick for which to dream up.

LaCrosse sales continues to increase.

And even if the Rainier and Terraza are dropped, Buick can be more focused than it has been the last few years, as one part of the Buick-Pontiac-GMC channel!

There was mismanagement on the part of GM in the late 20th-century and is fierce competition from all around in the early 21st-century --- but Buick is still hanging in there!

<_< Well, I tried.

[Croc]

No you're fine. Razoredge is just bitter about the union situation at Delphi, don't listen to him. Buick is fine, and they are profitable, so all is good with the world.

This thread does need a cheerleader, though, so here's my contribution:

Edited October 8, 2005 by Croc

[Paolino]

Oh damn, I thought the Rendezvous was going to be a late-2006 entry. Wow... no new product for 2007. Better hope there's a slight update to maybe the LaCrosse.

[razoredge]

No you're fine.  Razoredge is just bitter about the union situation at Delphi, don't listen to him.  Buick is fine, and they are profitable, so all is good with the world.

This thread does need a cheerleader, though, so here's my contribution:

[post="25671"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

" and they are profitable," Oh !!!!!!!! I thought GM wasnt making any profits ????? Boy this is so confusing :blink:

Listen croc, I can speak for myself, you seem to make a habit of speaking for others, gotta problem, more of that trouble making perhaps ? Im not bitter about whats going on with the unions, it has no effect on my life what so ever. I just know that GM is going down along with the entire American automotive industry. Buick will be cut quick. Not worth going into details, just watch theres 4 model years between now and 010.

No better time to start shopping for your Toyota or Honda. Right croc ?

[VenSeattle]

Buick will be cut quick. Not worth going into details, just watch theres 4 model years between now and 010.

[post="25817"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Please... go into details. Why are you sure "Buick will be cut quick"?

[Croc]

" and they are profitable," Oh !!!!!!!! I thought GM wasnt making any profits ????? Boy this is so confusing  :blink:

It's only confusing if you forget that GM is more than just divisions; there are a lot of overhead and side operations. BUICK is a profitable division. SAAB is not. SAAB would be cut far sooner than Buick. Pontiac would be cut far sooner than Buick. But since Pontiac-Buick-GMC are being consolidated into essentially one division, that entire division is extremely profitable. Is this starting to make sense?

Listen croc, I can speak for myself, you seem to make a habit of speaking for others, gotta problem, more of that trouble making perhaps  ? Im not bitter about whats going on with the unions, it has no effect on my life what so ever. I just know that GM is going down along with the entire American automotive industry. Buick will be cut quick. Not worth going into details, just watch theres 4 model years between now and 010.

I never spoke for you...I just find it fascinating that you just post this immediately after getting all riled up in the other thread. Sure seems like you're bitter. BTW, I'm with Ven...I want to know the details as to why you think Buick will be cut. It sure doesn't make any logical rational sense to me.

No better time to start shopping for your Toyota or Honda. Right croc ?

[post="25817"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You seem to be obsessing lately that I'm all pro-Toyota or something. Let's get one thing straight: you couldn't be more wrong. I hate Toyota. Honda has a model or two I would consider (both technically Acuras), but there are plenty of domestic models I would buy in a heartbeat, so that theory pretty much dies, now doesn't it? It will be a very long time, and a very different industry, before I would really truly consider buying a Toyota or a Honda. Edited October 9, 2005 by Croc

[razoredge]

Please... go into details. Why are you sure "Buick will be cut quick"?

[post="25851"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Its nothing more than my opinion, a feeling, something I have had since all this stuff came to mind after the Olds announcement in 2000. Even earlier really if you think about Plymouth, American Motors, British Leyland, International, GMC and so many others. Everything Ive observed since. Combined with recent developements that were also not a surprise. like so many others I would like to pretend none of this is going on and that it will not have a destructive effect but it will. No real new product for Buick. Nothing but negitive reviews of the recent releases. No special product in the making, No promise of any real exciting product in the making. Somekind of vow to never make Buick sporting again. Continued views of Buick as old folks car. Theres probably other things that have enforced this view in my mind but I cant think of everything at this time.

Time will tell, just sit back and watch, I could be wrong. The American auto industry could be the last and only survivor, it could make the world book of records for doing so too. If it does survive names like Buick, Mercury, Pontiac will be long forgotten or some Asian use of the name that has nothing whatsoever to do with the car. It will truely at that point be just a name. Like an adopted son can carry your name but not anything else. In fact its close to that now, when the 38 is finally gone there really wont be anything Buick about a Buick. All new power plants are Austrailian or Cadillac and Chevy based. GM powertrain yea yea yea but everybodys gonna have the same engines. It wont take long.

How is Buick profitable ? If I recall last years total sales were only a few hundred thou above what Olds was in 2000, I expect this years total to be even lower than what Olds was.

All we can do is just watch, I have been for a long long time. Thing is I never liked horror shows.

[VenSeattle]

I'm aware that this discussion has occurred several times on C&G. Unfortunately, much has been lost with the crashes... Reasons that make Oldsmobile different from Buick (and reasons that GM won't make the same mistake twice):

1) Oldsmobile was unprofitable before it received its $3 billion cash infusion. That cash infusion resulted in the excusive NorthStar 4.0 V8 & 3.5 V6. Great engines but terribly expensive to manufacture. Expensive debut of technology features like 4-Channel Stability control. Oldsmobile never recouped that investment, let alone returned to profitability.

2) Every vehicle Oldsmobile offered was engineered on a different platform. That's also extremely expensive (especially when sales volume doesn't justify it):

Alero: N-Platform
Intrigue: W-Platform
Aurora: G-Platform
Silhouette: U-Body
Bravada: GMT360

Compared to Buick's line-up through the 1990's & early 2000's:

W-Platform: Century & Regal
G-Platform: LeSabre, Park Avenue, Riviera

Even now, the Rainier benefited from the R&D costs paid for by Oldsmobile on the Bravada. The Terraza & Rendezvous share mechanics to a degree (both are U-body derived)

The use of the same platform for several vehicles within Buick kept Buick profitable. The use of the same power plant in almost all Buick vehicles kept Buick profitable.

3) Buick retail sales percentage is higher than Oldsmobile's.

By 2000, the majority of Oldsmobile's annual sales were from GM employees and rental companies. The market dried up on Oldsmobile. Oldsmobile, as a whole, was not meeting retail sales expectations: Intrigue and Aurora were both VERY disappointing.

Buick is actually increasing retail sales and decreasing rental sales with each new model debut. Yes, the total sales number is lowering, but with a positive effect that more and more sales are retail purchases. That means higher transaction prices than a fleet sale would provide.

4) Most buyers from Oldsmobile left GM. Oldsmobile buyers did not flock to another GM division like originally planned. As much as import buyers want to believe that domestic buyers are blind... well, they aren't. They didn't appreciate being herded to the nearest Chevrolet, Buick, or Cadillac dealership when it was time to trade-in. GM LOST most of Oldsmobile's customers when the division closed.

5) Buick is successful in China. It could eventually result in both market line-ups merging into one international portfolio, but Buick is having a successful resurgence in a critical global market.

6) Buick is merging with Pontiac & GMC. That cuts down a lot of the infrastructure costs,and with proper brand alignment prevents model overlap. GM is finally maneuvering its brands to a point where internal competition (sales cannibalism) is almost a thing of the past.


There are several more reasons why Oldsmobile failed. There are also several more reasons why Buick has a fighting chance. These are just the ones I can come up with at the moment.

[BuickEight]

There are several more reasons why Oldsmobile failed. There are also several more reasons why Buick has a fighting chance. These are just the ones I can come up with at the moment.

[post="25911"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I think problems started with Olds back in the late 80's. It all started when the '89 LeSabre took the #2 spot on the JD Powers quality list. It was at that point that many Olds 88 buyers chose the similar LeSabre because of it's quality....and who wouldn't? The 88's sales tanked and the LeSabre's rocketed( :blink: ) to the top, and I think the old farts were sold on Buick's after that. That's the last thing that Oldsmobile wanted. Also, I think Olds really screwed up on their styling begining in the early 90's. Don't even try comparing a '91 Park Avenue to a '91 Olds 98, or a '92 LeSabre to the awful looking '92 Olds 88. Buick actually had a pretty damn good lineup of great looking cars in the early 90's...IMO.

[ehaase]

Don't even try comparing a '91 Park Avenue to a '91 Olds 98, or a '92 LeSabre to the awful looking '92 Olds 88. 

A former moderator at C&G has an absolute fetish with the 1991 to 1996 Olds 98 and will not even consider a mechanically identical Buick.

[razoredge]

I have a 97 Oldsmobile LSS and did have a 99 Eighty Eight for a year. Besides the Riviera, Aurora, STS it is the only other body style by GM from that era I would consider owning. The PA is alright but has retiree written all over it. I would never consider a 92-04 LeSabre. They are horrible looking things, they are an anti styling statement, much like grunge was an anti guitar tec statement :lol: I prefer the LeSabre from 86-91 better [own one] but no way on that 92-99. I used to like the XJ but after a decade of 92-99 LeSabres I can hardly look at any of them. I have not found a difference in quality between my 90 Regency and my 86 LeSabre and I know they are the same car. My 90 Regency has a front inner fender from a 87 LeSabre. Better quality styling on the outside for the Buick, better styled interior on the Olds.

Also oddly enough there was a larger volumn of large 85-91 Oldsmobiles around here than Buicks, there was an abundance of both however. But even cruising the junk yards you find more Olds than Buicks, same with the classified. Mostly history now though, the old H&C bodies.

I would agree on a PA preference to the 98 from an exterior styling standpoint on the 91-96. I know enough about the cars to know better than saying there is a day and night difference.

Ven I wasnt really thinking about the exact reasons that Olds was not giving a chance to return an investment in less than 30 days :lol: I was talking about the decline and falling of the American automotive industry since the 70's. Its not about to stop either, its about to take a real plunge. There will be only a few survivors held together by bandaids. What comes from third world countries after the fact is just that, they wont cut it with typical American car buyers and more will migrate to Toyota, Honda, Audi and BMW, much like you mention about the Olds buyers.

Just watch :(

[titan]

I heard the Terraza and the Rainier will not be replaced and I think it's the right direction for Buick.

[post="2133"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree 100%.

[titan]

Well, I feel Buick should have 3 sedans.  Period.

I just don't like them having choice a or choice b for sedans.  It's like "do you want a car with all?  Or do you want a car with practically nothing?"

I think the Lucerne would make a great extry lux car, which ranges to 40, and then they should have a luxury car that goes from 40-52K.  IMHO.

[post="3968"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Me too. That's what I've been saying for a while, how. Three sedans; straight forward and competing in specific segments (entry-lux,lux,large lux). Period. Make them quiet, powerful, and full of value.

[titan]

I'm not sure Buick should got into the $50,000 mark. You can get a loaded STS V6 or a base STS V8 with a couple options for that price.

[post="4589"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I believe Buick can be GM's other lux brand and overlap with Caddy. They have two different idenities, and two different missions. The Luceren V8's pricing would just be touching the STS's (V6), and a V8 only flagship would be 55K. That's in the same territory as the STS, but the Buick would compete with the LS/S-Class/etc. When Caddy get's it's flaship above the STS, it'll be atleast 60-65K, competing in the same class. It'll be the German killer while the Roadmaster offers lux at a more affordable price but with it's mission as a quiet, powerfull American Lexus alternative.

[ehaase]

I believe Buick can be GM's other lux brand and overlap with Caddy. 

Where's GM supposed to get the funds to do all this, when Chapter 11 bankruptcy is a real threat in the near future? It's nice to dream, but let's get realistic about what's going on with GM.

[buickguy]

GM needs to expand the brands, even if it means rebranding. Buick could sell more vehicles if it had more models to sell. Buyers don't know the GM brands, they just know the brands. Many people don't know Saab, Buick and Cadillac are related. If a person leaves Buick, they have no GM loyalty, they will go to Lexus. Speaking of which, someone I know who just bought a Lexus, didn't know it was Japanese, and a rebadged Toyota. Rebadging makes GM money. It's cheaper and you can sell the same product under several different brands. Limiting the offerings is not the answer.

[sciguy_0504]

I think normal people are able to tell the CSV quads come from the same parent company. Using the same platform for vehicles across GM's brands is awesome as it saves money and resources. However, needlessly giving dealers certain types of vehicles because they demand them is rediculous, as is blatantly putting a different badge on a car and not changing any styling aspects (or changing only a few) of it.

[Paolino]

I think normal people are able to tell the CSV quads come from the same parent company.

Using the same platform for vehicles across GM's brands is awesome as it saves money and resources.  However, needlessly giving dealers certain types of vehicles because they demand them is rediculous, as is blatantly putting a different badge on a car and not changing any styling aspects (or changing only a few) of it.

[post="27205"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I have to tell you, after seeing my first Terazza in person, it confirmed my opinion: That is one UGLY vehicle.

[titan]

Where's GM supposed to get the funds to do all this, when Chapter 11 bankruptcy is a real threat in the near future?  It's nice to dream, but let's get realistic about what's going on with GM.

[post="27094"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

GM is already almost there. They announced they wanted Buick to be a Lexus competitor years ago. What they're lacking is execution, and to a lesser exent, marketing. First of all, now that we know some form of Zeta is back on track, let's hope that becomes a reality. Make Buick's car lineup all RWD, and spread the platform to select Chevys and Pontiac if necessary to make the numbers work. Cars like the LaX and Lucerne are great cars and are priced well, but they're execution is off when they continue to introduced the 3800 in these so called luxury vehicles. The new website is great and they're commercials are getting better. Doing things like using the 3.6 HFV6 as it's only V6 doesn't mean coming upwith any new money. But it'll go a long way to helping the brand's image, which will allow them to command higher prices for Buicks. Chap. 11 has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, because the resources are already there. The only missing link is the RWD platform for Buick.

[Paolino]

GM is already almost there. They announced they wanted Buick to be a Lexus competitor years ago. What they're lacking is execution, and to a lesser exent, marketing. First of all, now that we know some form of Zeta is back on track, let's hope that becomes a reality.  Make Buick's car lineup all RWD, and spread the platform to select Chevys and Pontiac if necessary to make the numbers work.  Cars like the LaX and Lucerne are great cars and are priced well, but they're execution is off when they continue to introduced the 3800 in these so called luxury vehicles. The new website is great and they're commercials are getting better.  Doing things like using the 3.6 HFV6 as it's only V6 doesn't mean coming upwith any new money. But it'll go a long way to helping the brand's image, which will allow them to command higher prices for Buicks. Chap. 11 has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, because the resources are already there.  The only missing link is the RWD platform for Buick.

[post="27260"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Honestly, I feel they had to put the 3800 in the LaCrosse from the beginning. They wanted to have a smaller trauma making the transition from the old Buick into the newer Buick. C'mon, the LaCrosse interior is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Regal and Century's, even if the outside is only a minor update in styling. I think it was done intentionally. Now, they've done their 3800 in the Buick for the 2 years, time to refresh the LaCrosse with a Lucerne-matching grille (al a` Velite), 3.6 standard with an optional engine w/ higher hp for the CXS (come on, sporty my ASS), and of course, REAL WOOD--It makes a difference.

[Paolino]

Oh, and the 6-speed auto.

[titan]

Honestly, I feel they had to put the 3800 in the LaCrosse from the beginning.  They wanted to have a smaller trauma making the transition from the old Buick into the newer Buick.  C'mon, the LaCrosse interior is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Regal and Century's, even if the outside is only a minor update in styling.  I think it was done intentionally.  Now, they've done their 3800 in the Buick for the 2 years, time to refresh the LaCrosse with a Lucerne-matching grille (al a` Velite), 3.6 standard with an optional engine w/ higher hp for the CXS (come on, sporty my ASS), and of course, REAL WOOD--It makes a difference.

[post="27421"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree with you on the interior, etc. And I'll concede the point on the 3800, if it was being used for a few years and being phased out... but it's still here. It's time for all of the changes you and I mentioned, and the end of the 3800 in Buicks.

[Paolino]

I agree with you on the interior, etc.  And I'll concede the point on the 3800, if it was being used for a few years and being phased out... but it's still here.  It's time for all of the changes you and I mentioned, and the end of the 3800 in Buicks.

[post="27480"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I would love to know what would replace it in the base LaCrosse. I couldn't imagine it'd be around for next year. Putting in the 3900 for a base LaCrosse would make the 3.6 pointless, being that the 3900 gets the same horsepower (if not 1 or 2 more), and more torque.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I think the 3.6-liter DOHC HF V-6 should be standard across the board on LaCrosse-give CXL a cloth front bench seat standard, leather and/or buckets no charge-and drop the CX model. And of course, cut the surviving CXL/CXS trims pricing as well-then the Buick and upscale terms will start to be taken seriously. Having a full-size car without full-size passenger or cargo room, Chevy styling and dashboard, 4-speeds and a dated, detuned does not help things at all, nor does an ugly, underequipped, outdated, overpriced minivan or a crossover that has really poor interior assembly (i.e. my 1989 Century's interior door surround does not move when I get out of the back seat).

[buyacargetacheck]

Lutz's comment about Buick being a competitor to Lexus is not helpful to Buick. It's a mistake to even think that way. Firstly because GM has its hands full with Cadillac competing in that space and price point. There's no way GM will ever be able to take its Chevy platforms and legacy dealer organization and make a real competitor to Lexus. Secondly, why should Buick want to be Lexus? This mindset damages Buick's great heritage: Buick should just be what it has always been - beautifully styled, quiet, comfortable. Enough buyers will take that formula (no matter if it's RWD or FWD, V8 or V6 - Buick customers don't care). Buick buyers want American comfort, quiet, and styling at an un-German price. My concern is whether or not the LaCrosse will be able to keep its momentum another 3 or 4 years until Epsilon II. The lack of space in that W backseat is un-Buick.

[ehaase]

I think the 3.6-liter DOHC HF V-6 should be standard across the board on LaCrosse-

GM needs to figure out how to make its HF DOHC V6's more fuel efficient.

[titan]

I would love to know what would replace it in the base LaCrosse.  I couldn't imagine it'd be around for next year.  Putting in the 3900 for a base LaCrosse would make the 3.6 pointless, being that the 3900 gets the same horsepower (if not 1 or 2 more), and more torque.

[post="27497"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'll be honest, I don't think that the 3800 is needed at all. I think that it should be simplified, like Infiniti/Caddy. Have the 3.6HF V6 for the only engine option for the LaX; the 3.6L standard and the N* as an option for the Lucerne, and a V8 only flaghship (I wish) featuring the N* as the only engine. What's wrong with that? The LaX is so close to being RIGHT. Fill it with equipment, tweek the front (that's just my opionion), do a minor upgrade to the interior, and make the 3.6HFV6 as the engine, and you won't have to apologize for this car being $30-33K; you'll command the price. I really like Acura's strategy of loading cars up and only offering a few options (like navi). That way it's luxurious and valuepacked.

[Paolino]

I'll be honest, I don't think that the 3800 is needed at all.  I think that it should be simplified, like Infiniti/Caddy.    Have the 3.6HF V6 for the only engine option for the LaX; the 3.6L standard and the N* as an option for the Lucerne, and a V8 only flaghship (I wish) featuring the N* as the only engine.  What's wrong with that?  The LaX is so close to being RIGHT.  Fill it with equipment, tweek the front (that's just my opionion), do a minor upgrade to the interior, and make the 3.6HFV6 as the engine, and you won't have to apologize for this car being $30-33K; you'll command the price. I really like Acura's strategy of loading cars up and only offering a few options (like navi).  That way it's luxurious and valuepacked.

[post="29089"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree with what you're saying, however, I feel there should be some sort of option for more power on the CXS. I mean, "sporty" should suggest more power as well--even if it's the 3.6 just with more power, ie. tuned differently or with a turbo. Who knows what's going to happen though.

Front end, needs a refresh. Interior, just a few tweaks. Hey, structureless wipers? Why can't the LaCrosse get those? Impala and MC have them, Lucerne has them... give it to the LaCrosse.

[pow]

Or how about fitting the 5300 DoD V8 in the LaX? It shouldn't be difficult, since the GP GXP has it, and it'll add spice to an otherwise conservative car.