Some tidbits on the Chevy Zeta's

[Northstar]

Camaro coupe starts production in February 2009. The convertible starts production late 2009.

Engines:

It is unclear whether both Chevy Zeta's will share the same engine lineup, but three engines will be offered in all. The 3.5L V6 (perhaps as a fleet engine for the Impala?), 3.6L V6, and 6.2L V8. At this time, there is nothing else planned (for the first model year at least). 18 inch wheels appear to be standard, while 19s and 20s (20s being available in 2 different widths) will be optional. Most likely, the 20s will be standard on the 6.2L model, so that a staggered setup can be run. Putting the power to the ground will be 275 series tires.

And I think that's enough from the little birdy for this post :AH-HA_wink:

[gm4life]

I'd pay for information.

[smk4565]

February 09 seems like a long time away, I wish it were summer 08. The positive will be that Transformers 2 comes out in the summer of 2009, so they can tie in the Camaro with that. Chevy needs some excitement, their car line up (aside from the Vette) hasn't had any in a while.

The 3.5 V6 is bad now, it will seem really bad in 2010. I think the 3.6 is even a little unrefined and could be improved, especially when it comes to fuel mileage. The Impala's base engine needs to be Accord V6 level.

A 6.2 liter V8 seems like a huge jump up, there is no middle ground, like the 5.3 liter. I wonder how much gas that engine will use also. The Chrysler 300 SRT sucks gas and that is a 6.1 liter and I don't see many on the road. I am all for offering the big engine, but they need something smaller I think too.

Edited October 11, 2007 by smk4565

[buick59]

Good night nurse, by the time GM gets this thing out will anyone still want it. Three years from when it was shown as a concept to Feb 09 production. This is way too long. The challenger will have been out for almost a year longer. Ridiculous.

[Northstar]

February 09 seems like a long time away, I wish it were summer 08. The positive will be that Transformers 2 comes out in the summer of 2009, so they can tie in the Camaro with that. Chevy needs some excitement, their car line up (aside from the Vette) hasn't had any in a while.

The 3.5 V6 is bad now, it will seem really bad in 2010. I think the 3.6 is even a little unrefined and could be improved, especially when it comes to fuel mileage. The Impala's base engine needs to be Accord V6 level.

A 6.2 liter V8 seems like a huge jump up, there is no middle ground, like the 5.3 liter. I wonder how much gas that engine will use also. The Chrysler 300 SRT sucks gas and that is a 6.1 liter and I don't see many on the road. I am all for offering the big engine, but they need something smaller I think too.

As I said, I would expect that the 3.5 is simply for the fleet cars, and I guess it could also be for current Impala buyers who just want a big, comfy car and don't care about refinement.

[silverss/sc]

Please have the birdie go take a sh!t on those 20" wheels . I knew they would happen , but I was hoping not . 18's will probably look dumb in those big 300C size wheel well openings

Maybe outa the hole they will be , but I wouldnt expect the engine lineup to remain limited to a 6 and 1 6.2L . With the 260 hp 3.6 as a base , the G8 L76 would make a great base V8 . With a LS3 mid and LS8 topping it up . 260<361<430<500'ish seems like a nice progression

Edited October 11, 2007 by silverss/sc

[Chazman]

Seriously doubt that Camaro will ever see a 3.5 HV V6.

[loki]

if the 3.5L is true, hopefully it can make more like ~240hp, somehow, and still stay economical without a 4 speed (auto) offered, a 5 speed should be standard if not a 6...if the 3.5L is offered.

3.6L should be DI right around 300hp (if it's not improved at all for cadi) and only 6speed offered

it'd be nice if the 5.3L "will be offered", but the 3.6L would provide losts of competition to it if people only look at HP.

[FAPTurbo]

Ugh. I really, really wanted a small V8 to go with it...

I really don't want to have a car as bad-ass as the Camaro with a pedestrian V6.

[VenSeattle]

Has it been confirmed the Chevy Zeta sedan will be called Impala?

Why I ask... I may have missed something among the myriad of topics that followed the UAW/GM agreement... Chevy will be receiving a large Epsilon sedan in 2010 out of Fairfax, KS stated in this topic. Have we confirmed that will be the next gen Malibu on Epsilon II or is that a new FWD large sedan in addition to the Malibu and Zeta sedan?

If it is the Malibu, it will be odd for Chevrolet to have a smallish Cobalt on Gamma and then a large Malibu on EPS II? Where is Chevrolet's midsize family sedan? Will there be a global GMDAT-sourced compact/midsize Chevrolet filling the gap?

Not to Hijack... just asking. It's good to know the production schedule for the Camaro. Let's us know how fast things will be moving for Oshawa.

[Toyota.vs.GM]

Chevrolet to have a smallish Cobalt on Gamma

The Cobalt will not be on Gamma II,and it won't be made in the U.S.

[thegriffon]

The new Malibu is 2012. 2010 is a new large car, apparently not the Malibu. How this will all shake out I have no idea. Aveo, Cobalt, Malibu, Impala Caprice?

[derrado]

There was scuttlebutt about the Impala becoming somewhat of a niche vehicle, to go up against the Chrysler 300 and offer the same type of brash styling. Then, we heard how successful the Impala was becoming, seeing sales increases even in slow times in the market. We then heard about Chevy offering a stretched version of the Malibu to cater for those "lost" Impala buyers who wouldn't buy a higher-priced, lower-volume replacement Impala. That's what I imagine will happen. Chevrolet will channel the ol' 60's Impalas and use that type of brash American styling to make somewhat of a halo model for the passenger car range and kinda sock it to the bland Avalon, Taurus and such. The Impala drivers who like the current Impala's place in life will just leave to the Malibu (which is much bigger than it was) or go to this theoretical stretched version.

[longtooth]

:

February 09 seems like a long time away, I wish it were summer 08. The positive will be that Transformers 2 comes out in the summer of 2009, so they can tie in the Camaro with that. Chevy needs some excitement, their car line up (aside from the Vette) hasn't had any in a while.

The 3.5 V6 is bad now, it will seem really bad in 2010. I think the 3.6 is even a little unrefined and could be improved, especially when it comes to fuel mileage. The Impala's base engine needs to be Accord V6 level.

A 6.2 liter V8 seems like a huge jump up, there is no middle ground, like the 5.3 liter. I wonder how much gas that engine will use also. The Chrysler 300 SRT sucks gas and that is a 6.1 liter and I don't see many on the road. I am all for offering the big engine, but they need something smaller I think too.

You "wish" it were summer '08, huh? I'm sorry, but that isn't even the point. The New Mustang'll be into it's 2nd iteration already. I don't know what type of sentient being decides to lay up on a project which is so critical to the image of the "new" GM. There should be/should have been a "Manhattan Project" styled effort to get these vehicles to market as rapidly as possible. In their infinite wisdom, the corporation shuttered the Lansing Craft Center, the one facility which could've have brought a credible number of the Camaros to market much sooner. So then, instead of waiting until after our next president is sworn in a year and a half from now, these cars would have been in the capable hands of the faithful in time for a drive to the beach this coming summer. Well, at least I know the corporation still has a fondness for anachronisms. Oy! Edited October 11, 2007 by longtooth

[97regalGS]

one of GM's mistakes with the camaro is very simple one. they never should have showed the Camaro concept at NAIAS 2006. it creates a huge perception problem amongst those of us that follow the automotive market on a daily basis. the car won't go into production until 3years later, which seems like eternity. by the time the car hits the street the design will be dated and stale and we shouldn't likely see any major changes for years.

by the way, gm does this &#036;h&#33; all the time, show concept cars of future cars way too far in advance of production and then the prod'n car is watered down anyway.

the only thing that will remotely keep the camaro kinda fresh is the various special models and paint jobs, and it won;t really be fresh, just a tactic to aritifically keep prices high on some limited production models - (not that that is a bad thing from a business perspective.)

i just hope no one to has any false expectations that the camaro is somehow gm's saviour, or that it will outsell the mustang because it won't do either.

[longtooth]

one of GM's mistakes with the camaro is very simple one. they never should have showed the Camaro concept at NAIAS 2006. it creates a huge perception problem amongst those of us that follow the automotive market on a daily basis. the car won't go into production until 3years later, which seems like eternity. by the time the car hits the street the design will be dated and stale and we shouldn't likely see any major changes for years.

by the way, gm does this &#036;h&#33; all the time, show concept cars of future cars way too far in advance of production and then the prod'n car is watered down anyway.

the only thing that will remotely keep the camaro kinda fresh is the various special models and paint jobs, and it won;t really be fresh, just a tactic to aritifically keep prices high on some limited production models - (not that that is a bad thing from a business perspective.)

i just hope no one to has any false expectations that the camaro is somehow gm's saviour, or that it will outsell the mustang because it won't do either.

Absolutely right Reg'. Same standard was applied to the late SSR and Aztek. They touted the living daylights out of those waaaay in advance, at least they did in-house, and both landed mightily with a THUD! High profile failures.

I don't gratuitously critcize here. I want GM to suceed. But, when I see what I see, and view it through the prism of some long years of what experience I have or think I have, it just causes me to be beside myself with puzzlement.

I realize that the new Camaro was not intended to be the saviour of GM. Just imagine though, the halo effect to have Corvette's affordable relative out there defending the honor of the division. It is about perception, and the cascading affects of success building upon success.

AAGH!

Edited October 11, 2007 by longtooth

[cire]

Why in the world would GM offer the outdated 3.5 liter V6 in the upcoming Zeta cars? Do they really enjoy getting their behinds kicked by the Japanese? Why can't they offer the new 3.6 V6 as a base engine, the direct injection 3.6 V6 as an upgrade, and then V8's as range topper engines. I want to see GM trump their competition with class leading technology instead of constantly playing catchup! They have the talent and resources to do this! Edited October 11, 2007 by cire

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Don't you dare make the never-shoulda-been-discussed 3500 V-6 as standard! Since these lines just have to have a V-6, make it the obvious High Feature 3.6-liter, the 275hp version as standard. And maybe for old times sake for Pontiac, how about a Sprint model-option with the direct-injection 300hp (give or take)?

The Zeta engine lineup should be the 3.6 V-6, 4800 V-8 and/or 5300 V-8 (300 and 350hp respectively, optional on base models, something I think ruined the last Camaro base/RS/Firebird base models, and still does with Mustang and Charger/Magnum SE/SXT/non-C 300's), and finally the 6000 or 6200 V-8's, whichever one will go in SS's, GT/GXP's, and the like.

[Drew Dowdell]

2009?!? Good lord.....

As for the HV3.5, I think the 3.9 would be more appropriate, but as long as whatever the base engine is, it has 250hp and decent torque.

[Northstar]

Has it been confirmed the Chevy Zeta sedan will be called Impala?

Why I ask... I may have missed something among the myriad of topics that followed the UAW/GM agreement... Chevy will be receiving a large Epsilon sedan in 2010 out of Fairfax, KS stated in this topic. Have we confirmed that will be the next gen Malibu on Epsilon II or is that a new FWD large sedan in addition to the Malibu and Zeta sedan?

If it is the Malibu, it will be odd for Chevrolet to have a smallish Cobalt on Gamma and then a large Malibu on EPS II? Where is Chevrolet's midsize family sedan? Will there be a global GMDAT-sourced compact/midsize Chevrolet filling the gap?

Not to Hijack... just asking. It's good to know the production schedule for the Camaro. Let's us know how fast things will be moving for Oshawa.

Well, I suppose no one has really confirmed it until now. Yes, it will be called Impala. I guess we don't have any confirmation that the EPII sedan is the Malibu (EDIT: Just found some confirmation on that), but regardless it replaces the Malibu. It won't be that much bigger, probably Camry sized. More growth should be expected in width than length.

I am not too convinced the Cobalt is on Gamma. I think that's a false rumor. I am 100% sure there is a global Chevy Delta, which would imply that the US is getting it. I think that is the Cobalt. EDIT: I am now 100% sure the Cobalt is on Delta. Starts production mid 09. The Aveo is on Gamma, though.

[Northstar]

The new Malibu is 2012. 2010 is a new large car, apparently not the Malibu. How this will all shake out I have no idea. Aveo, Cobalt, Malibu, Impala Caprice?

The new Malibu is/was slated to being production on LWB EPII in January of 2011. Perhaps it is now a Dec 2010 start.

[Flybrian]

Large FWD Impala, Large RWD Caprice? Vice-versa?

[Windy-57]

Camaro coupe starts production in February 2009.

Transformers 2 summer 2009?

[Z-06]

Well, I suppose no one has really confirmed it until now. Yes, it will be called Impala. I guess we don't have any confirmation that the EPII sedan is the Malibu (EDIT: Just found some confirmation on that), but regardless it replaces the Malibu. It won't be that much bigger, probably Camry sized. More growth should be expected in width than length.

I am not too convinced the Cobalt is on Gamma. I think that's a false rumor. I am 100% sure there is a global Chevy Delta, which would imply that the US is getting it. I think that is the Cobalt. EDIT: I am now 100% sure the Cobalt is on Delta. Starts production mid 09. The Aveo is on Gamma, though.

Does that mean current Cobalt will go without MCE? It will seem pointless to give it a facelift only for 2009. It seems like it will be brand new for 2010.

[Northstar]

Large FWD Impala, Large RWD Caprice? Vice-versa?

Impala is RWD on Zeta. Malibu is FWD on EPII. My only explanation for having a large EPII sedan at Fairfax in 2010 is that either the NG Malibu got moved from early 2011 (as planned) to late 2010, or tooling starts in 2010 so they consider that to be when the plant starts on the NG Malibu. There is no evidence of anything else. Cobalt stays on Delta (Delta II) and probably is at Ramos (which would explain why it's not on the UAW sheet). Aveo is on Gamma.

Does that mean current Cobalt will go without MCE? It will seem pointless to give it a facelift only for 2009. It seems like it will be brand new for 2010.

Yes, the Cobalt MCE was dropped since it would have only been out for 1 1/2 or 2 model years.

AH-HA, I see you lurking, want to confirm? :AH-HA_wink:

[Z-06]

Impala is RWD on Zeta. Malibu is FWD on EPII. My only explanation for having a large EPII sedan at Fairfax in 2010 is that either the NG Malibu got moved from early 2011 (as planned) to late 2010, or tooling starts in 2010 so they consider that to be when the plant starts on the NG Malibu. There is no evidence of anything else. Cobalt stays on Delta (Delta II) and probably is at Ramos (which would explain why it's not on the UAW sheet). Aveo is on Gamma.

So the current Bu will have a life of only 4 years? 2008-2011 I guess. Ramos for Delta is understandable, since Lutz said about year and half ago that it is difficult to make money on small cars produced here. I guess they are banking big time on Gamma in sheer volume. It seems like GM has something up its sleeves.

Yes, the Cobalt MCE was dropped since it would have only been out for 1 1/2 or 2 model years.

AH-HA, I see you lurking, want to confirm? :AH-HA_wink:

Sure confirm it.

[CaddyRich]

one of GM's mistakes with the camaro is very simple one. they never should have showed the Camaro concept at NAIAS 2006. it creates a huge perception problem amongst those of us that follow the automotive market on a daily basis. the car won't go into production until 3years later, which seems like eternity. by the time the car hits the street the design will be dated and stale and we shouldn't likely see any major changes for years.

by the way, gm does this &#036;h&#33; all the time, show concept cars of future cars way too far in advance of production and then the prod'n car is watered down anyway.

the only thing that will remotely keep the camaro kinda fresh is the various special models and paint jobs, and it won;t really be fresh, just a tactic to aritifically keep prices high on some limited production models - (not that that is a bad thing from a business perspective.)

i just hope no one to has any false expectations that the camaro is somehow gm's saviour, or that it will outsell the mustang because it won't do either.

The problems with such a looonnggg lead time are many. By the time it does arrive, the public greets it with a collective yawn...the enthusiasts say "What took you so long?"...and the first words of any media story will be the "...long awaited Chevrolet Camaro is finally here...". Years ago, there was a bit of secrecy and curiosity with an upcoming vehicle - that's what made some initial launches so successful. You would think these boneheads would learn from their mistakes - some of them very recent - the excessively long lead time with the Lucerne, for example.

[Northstar]

So the current Bu will have a life of only 4 years? 2008-2011 I guess. Ramos for Delta is understandable, since Lutz said about year and half ago that it is difficult to make money on small cars produced here. I guess they are banking big time on Gamma in sheer volume. It seems like GM has something up its sleeves.

Actually the about-to-be-released 'Bu will have a life of about 2 months in 2007, and then 2008-2010. 3 year 2 months, by my count.

And yes, Gamma is going to play a HUGE role. Tons of global volume.

[K.C.]

It all sounds very promising. I hope the products are homeruns!

[Z-06]

Actually the about-to-be-released 'Bu will have a life of about 2 months in 2007, and then 2008-2010. 3 year 2 months, by my count.

And yes, Gamma is going to play a HUGE role. Tons of global volume.

May be they will keep Bu for another year as Classic and unload it in Fleets.

[Northstar]

May be they will keep Bu for another year as Classic and unload it in Fleets.

Good thought. This could explain why it appears on the UAW sheet that the current one and the next one overlap.

[mcsslover1987]

So the Camaro will be a 2009 1/2 if production starts in Feb '09. Isn't the Dodge Challenger starting production before then?

[gm4life]

They have made pre-production Challengers they will be on the road sometime in 08 from what I heard. Don't ask me when I don't know!

[Drew Dowdell]

May be they will keep Bu for another year as Classic and unload it in Fleets.

I thought that was the plan all along?

[Northstar]

I thought that was the plan all along?

He is not talking about the current Malibu and the new one, but rather when the new one becomes the old one and we have another new one (in 2011).