Strongest GM Brands

[Petra]

I would say that none of these brands have very many strong products at the present. However (and I hate to say it), Saturn has by far the brightest near-term future.

[wildcat]

As I write this, Buick is trailing Saturn and Pontiac. So, in other words, what this poll is saying is that Buick most needs product development attention and dollars at this point.

[ehaase]

As I write this, Buick is trailing Saturn and Pontiac.  So, in other words, what this poll is saying is that Buick most needs product development attention and dollars at this point.

[post="30231"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I think it means that GM needs to invest its scarce resources in the brands with the most potential to grow. I like Buick, but I am an ultra conservative old fart anyway.

[Croc]

I think it means that GM needs to invest its scarce resources in the brands with the most potential to grow.  I like Buick, but I am an ultra conservative old fart anyway.

[post="30362"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Knowing is half the battle http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[Northstar]

As I write this, Buick is trailing Saturn and Pontiac.  So, in other words, what this poll is saying is that Buick most needs product development attention and dollars at this point.

[post="30231"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I don't know if I'd say that necessarily. Ask people 50 and over which brand is the strongest and it's probably Buick. I think the results are the way they are because C&G is predominately young people who don't really have a calling to the types of cars Buick has.

I've been thinking about all the whining over Pontiac not getting attention, but now that they've dropped the Aztek and Sunfire the only uncompetitive product is the SV6. The G6 isn't class leading by any means, but it's not garbage (the coupe is actually quite nice, IMO, and the convert will be the cheapest way to get a folding hardtop), the Solstice is already a hit, the GTO is a superb product, the Torrent really isn't bad (it's better than the Equinox which is doing great), and the Grand Prix is just old, so it's a bit uncompetitive now.

However, Pontiac doesn't totally fulfill it's mission, IMO, which is what makes it weak to me. The Torrent is actually a relatively good product, it's just that there's nothing remotely sporty about it if it drives like an Equinox. The G6 isn't sporty either, and should at least drive as well as the Mazda6. The Solstice and GTO are right on target, but the Grand Prix needs a move to RWD and the SV6 needs to be cut.

[buyacargetacheck]

As much as I like Buick, I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense, at least from a manufacturing and marketing cost standpoint, to phase out Buick and have Chevy offer a Caprice to go head to head with Avalon in the near-luxury big car market (what Buick has always been about). If GM could keep the dealers alive by just offering the Lucerne that would be an alternative. But I don't think it is. Right now, in this market where big near-luxury coupes don't sell well (a la Riviera), the Lucerne is the one car that defines what a Buick is. Unfortunately, it isn't enough. The same with Pontiac (a schizophrenic basketcase off and on since the 1950s). Don't get me wrong. They are mostly good Chevies. Nothing wrong with that. But the GTO (rebadge it as the Camaro - better than nothing) and Solstice (which could easily just as well make a great Chevy) are not enough to justify making expensive alterations to other platforms and then spending lots of money to promote them big at the start and then let them languish for the remaining lifecycle (Bonneville, Grand Prix, G6, many others). Saturn is mostly a failed experiment, and these new cars coming up will do well for while but not well enough to justify the franchise long-term. Saab is not worth another distribution channel for the Epsilon platform. Cadillac could start offering the BLS instead and sell many more times what the 9-3 could ever do. GMC could do well on it's own. It's so obvious to me that GM's distribution plan is being run on a mix of tradition, weak hope that old brands will reignite a fire, and the threat of massive legal hell from dealers whose livelihoods might have to be sacrificed. GM's best hope if it wants to thrive and maybe grow one day is to bite the bullet and start focusing on GM's STRONGEST BRANDS: Chevrolet and Cadillac exclusively.

[ehaase]

Those who keep talking about eliminating brands make sense from a marketing standpoint, but not a financial one, in my uneducated opinion. Eliminating Pontiac, Saturn, and Buick would reduce GM's sales by probably about 800,000 sales, and I doubt that Chevrolet and Cadillac sales would increase by the same amount. Unless GM can be allowed to close a large number of plants, stop paying workers for not working, and be relieved of its pension liabilities (all this may require bankruptcy) so that it can be profitable with sales of around 2.5 to 3 million, I do not think that any more divisions will be dropped. GM needs all the sales volume it can get to keep the plants open and these people working instead of paying them not to work. Edited October 18, 2005 by ehaase

[buyacargetacheck]

Those who keep talking about eliminating brands make sense from a marketing standpoint, but not a financial one, in my uneducated opinion. Eliminating Pontiac, Saturn, and Buick would reduce GM's sales by probably about 800,000 sales, and I doubt that Chevrolet and Cadillac sales would increase by the same amount. Unless GM can be allowed to close a large number of plants, stop paying workers for not working, and be relieved of its pension liabilities (all this may require bankruptcy) so that it can be profitable with sales of around 2.5 to 3 million, I do not think that any more divisions will be dropped. GM needs all the sales volume it can get to keep the plants open and these people working instead of paying them not to work.

This is all true.

Although necessary in the short term, keeping plants open just to keep the losses from becoming even larger than they already are during the hottest sales years ever is not sustainable. This is especially true considering the level of debt that has been tapped just to keep people buying coupled with interest rates heading higher.

It seems that yesterday's UAW agreement on health benefits will merely postpone GM's day of reckoning. They'll give it one more go with the new products on tap, and when that doesn't work, they'll find themselves necessarily in bankruptcy. That, thankfully, won't mean the end of GM. It'll mean the beginning of much better times where the company can finally get ahead of the curve.

[Cory Wolfe]

G6 isn't sporty either, and should at least drive as well as the Mazda6.

And the Grand Am for that matter. Its performance numbers are all better than the G6's. That, of course, is excluding the GTP since the GA never had a higher trim than GT.

[LosAngeles]

By the results, it's pretty obvious that GM should never have bought Saab....doesn't mean GM has a right to close it down. I really wish GM kept Lotus, however....

[ehaase]

GM should have never bought Saab, and Ford should have never bought Jaguar and Land Rover. Volvo seems to have been a good investment, though.

[superstreet]

i thinf that the strong brand of gm is chevrolet

[daves87rs]

Strongest brand right now? Pontiac. The Sol and Torrent should help up sales a bit more to good G6 and Vibe...as the GP falls, and we mourn the deaths and the Fire' and Bonnie. Strongest brand on the Move? Saturn. With the new products in the pipeline-this should give it a big boost..and a re-vamped ION (with a new name)... The Vue is still solid, While the Relay is only here to fill a quick void, and will be gone soon....

[daves87rs]

Great post.

I would like to add two root causes that IMO forever changed the face of the industry and the companies for many reasons never recovered from.  All of which lead to the key points you mentioned.

#1: Ralph Nader
#2: The first oil crisis

All the government regulations and the switch to fwd with new powertrains, unibody switchover caused it all to go to hell.  You can't expect this industry to turn on a dime without serious repercussions.  Quality and styling suffered as we are well aware.  And the Japanese with the right product at the right time just walked it.  Remember there was not a market for small cars prior to the oil embargo and there was no need for the Big 3 to product such a car.

[post="28386"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Like 68, I really agree with evok on this one...

[daves87rs]

GM should have never bought Saab, and Ford should have never bought Jaguar and Land Rover.  Volvo seems to have been a good investment, though.

[post="31285"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Agreed. I think GM will dump Saab pretty quick..

And if they really do anything to help Saab, it's only going to be because it needs
to look good for a buyer...

[bring_BUICK_back]

Of course Buick is not a strong brand! GM and their meery band of idiots have left Buick on life suport for too many years. Now everyone else is getting new material and Buick is getting rehased crap with a name change. Buick does not deserve this. It is time for us to band together and Bring Buick Back! They need more than (2) cars and (1) truck! They need RWD, Coupes, Verts, Advertisements and powerfull engines, beautifull interiors and electronics that is what Buick is known for. :angry: :angry:

[ehaase]

They need RWD, Coupes, Verts, Advertisements and powerfull engines, beautifull interiors and electronics that is what Buick is known for. :angry:  :angry:

[post="36300"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

GM has no money to do most of that.

[Fiero88]

Cadillac or Chevrolet.... Richman's car, poorman's car.... nothing else will be needed.

[daves87rs]

Cadillac or Chevrolet....
Richman's car, poorman's car.... nothing else will be needed.

[post="36407"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hey, you have to have choice..

[Cory Wolfe]

Okay people... This is about the GM's strongest weak brand. That means Cadillac, Chevrolet, and GMC are excluded. I wouldn't call Hummer a strong brand, but it was excluded too.

[Robert Hall]

Cadillac or Chevrolet....
Richman's car, poorman's car.... nothing else will be needed.

The 2 brand approach has worked for years for Toyota...

[jmore1276]

The 2 brand approach has worked for years for Toyota...

[post="36855"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

GM is a differen't and much older animal(in the US). There are still many brand loyalists out there (albeit mostly older folks as far as Olds goes). But in Canada Pontiac is a stronger player than Chevy atleast as far as the Cobolt (Cavelier) and the (Pursuit) Sunfire. That's why GM chose the Pursuit over the Cobalt. I hope GM saves Buick, and I still believe killing Olds was a mistake. It definately would have made more sense to keep Olds here than Saab. They should have just used Saab in Europe where their market was very good. When they killed olds it's output was 300,000 units per year. I don't believe Saab is near that in the US...but I could be wrong, if so feel free to corect me on this. In any event many of those 300,000 customers did not go to Buick as a backup....interesting.........The Name of the brand does make a difference to many people even when it's just a rebadge!!!

[Cory Wolfe]

GM never regained the sales lost when Olds was killed... The same will happen with Pontiac, Buick, etc. It may work for Toyota, but it won't work for GM. To put it into perspective... Toyota is GM in its earlier stages...

[Cory Wolfe]

:withstupid: (and stupid is just perfect to describe the lack of a delete post feature) Edited November 9, 2005 by blackviper8891

[Jazzhead]

I voted for Buick: - Buick for years has had the highest quality ratings at GM - and those ratings are now above most Japanese brands as well - Buick has fewer issues with its core image - comfortable, reliable, powerful and conservatively-styled cars. - Because of that secure core image, it makes a better case to remain a stand-alone car line, offering a unique dealer and service experience. If you force a Buick owner to buy a Chevy, he'll go elsewhere. I've always been an advocate of GM's multi-brand approach to marketing. It allows similarly-engineered products to be designed and marketed to different demographic groups. That's an efficient approach to covering as much of the market as possible.

[The O.C.]

I voted for Buick:

  -  Buick for years has had the highest quality ratings at GM - and those ratings are now above most Japanese brands as well

  -  Buick has fewer issues with its core image - comfortable, reliable, powerful and conservatively-styled cars.   

  -  Because of that secure core image,  it makes a better case to remain a stand-alone car line, offering a unique dealer and service experience.  If you force a Buick owner to buy a Chevy, he'll go elsewhere.

  I've always been an advocate of GM's multi-brand approach to marketing.  It allows similarly-engineered products to be designed and marketed to different demographic groups.    That's an efficient approach to covering as much of the market as possible.

[post="40709"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, I like Buick personally.....but I'd have to disagree with you about Buick having a "secure core image."

I don't know where you live, but outside of Michigan, or parts of Florida, Buick has NO core image.

Even out here in Cali....old people (65-70+) are more likely to drive Camrys or Accords....at least that's what I see when I drive around Leisure (Seizure) World in Laguna Woods.

[corvettekidc6]

why didn't you include Chevy? :angry:

[Sixty8panther]

why didn't you include Chevy?
:angry:

[post="41769"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Except for the Corvette and Cobalt Chevy cars suck ass IMHO.

A rwd Camaro & Monte Carlo and a REAL full size rwd chevy sedan are needed for Chevy to be a real contender. As it stands the Impala, Monte Carlo, Malibu, and of course Aveo leave me cold. Now as far as trucks go I'd never even consider buying anything other than a Chevy/GMC. This goes for all SUVs & pickups with the possible exclusion of the Equinox. I HATE cute-utes. Useless jacked up econoboxes.


BTW: L.A. I'm with you 100% about Lotus. They're such an awsome brand... I love Lotus. Think how much publicity they could get by having rhe ecotec in the Elise instead of a freekin Corolla motor. <_<

[balthazar]

The 2 brand approach has worked for years for Toyota...

Apparently it didn't work that well- toyota is up to 4 brands now.

[haypops]

Apparently it didn't work that well- toyota is up to 4 brands now.

[post="48813"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Perhaps as sales go up, more brands become advantageous. As total sales drop, the extra brands(thnking GM and VW here) may become a hindrance.