UAW: Prepare to strike Delphi

[Ghost Dog]

The company wants a New York bankruptcy judge to put the UAW on notice that it must negotiate a new contract with Delphi by Dec. 16. If the union refuses, Delphi wants the judge to use his powers to nullify its labor contracts and impose Delphi’s tough new terms on the union.

"Should this happen, the ’no strike’ clause is lifted and the UAW has the right to authorize a strike," the flyer said. "We all need to prepare for this possibility."


A strike at Delphi could eventually close almost every auto plant that depends on it for parts, especially at GM, which remains Delphi’s biggest customer, buying almost 50% of everything it makes.

"We had a preview of what a Delphi strike looks like in 1998 when the UAW struck just two plants including a Delphi facility in Flint, Michigan," said Harley Shaiken, professor at the University of California at Berkeley, specializing in labor issues. "A strike by the UAW at Delphi could mean the end of the company."

Those strikes at two Delphi parts plants virtually shut down GM across North America for nearly two months, causing its U.S. sales and market share to drop and costing millions of dollars.

But Delphi may be putting its factory workers in much the same position Northwest Airlines put its mechanics and plane cleaners this summer: demanding concessions that are so drastic, workers can’t possibly accept them. In Northwest’s case, it wanted to wipe out nearly half the union’s jobs and cut the pay of those who remained by about 25%.

Given the choice of sign-or-walk, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association walked Aug. 20.

"You either stand up for what you believe in or you roll over and take whatever management, doesn’t matter what company, dictates to you," said Bob Rose, president of the union’s local in Romulus.

But Delphi workers are beginning to sound like the Northwest mechanics.

"It’s not over yet. We’re not going down without a fight," one UAW worker in New York, who asked that his name not be divulged because of repercussions from the company, said in an e-mail.

They are appalled by the concessions they’re being asked to make, especially when the company is offering hundreds of executives stock and bonuses of up to 230% of their salaries if they stick with the auto parts maker during its reorganization.

"Naturally there’s a lot of anger, uncertainty and bitterness,"

[Guest Josh]

If it has to be done to protect the future of America and protect jobs. So be it.

[CaddyXLR-V]

If it has to be done to protect the future of America and protect jobs. So be it.

[post="27807"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It will send the jobs away to never return. I dont know how that can be called protecting jobs.
If I lived there, I would go work for Delphi while the workers strike just to keep the company running. It is, after all, an American company. Lets just close C&G now if we support something that could force the end of GM. Edited October 12, 2005 by CaddyXLR-V

[bowtie_dude]

If it has to be done to protect the future of America and protect jobs. So be it.

[post="27807"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

"protect the future of America"? :lol: Right, thats what the union mobs are doing. :rolleyes: More like the future of their wallets.

[razoredge]

"protect the future of America"? :lol: Right, thats what the union mobs are doing.  :rolleyes:  More like the future of their wallets.

[post="27844"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Your statements clearly show how little experience you actually have. Their briefness, poor attitude and lack of depth reminds me more of a WWF promotion, so I can only wonder ....... well never mind.

:lol:

[bowtie_dude]

Your statements clearly show how little experience you actually have. Their briefness, poor attitude and lack of depth reminds me more of a WWF promotion, so I can only wonder ....... well never mind.

:lol:

[post="27914"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Experience with what? Is working on an assembly line a prerequisite for expressing opinion? Odd, I thought my college education gave me a pretty good leg to stand on. I guess you HS diploma/GED carriers working yourselves to death for the same pay I work half as hard for know more than me.

[razoredge]

It will send the jobs away to never return. I dont know how that can be called protecting jobs.
If I lived there, I would go work for Delphi while the workers strike just to keep the company running. It is, after all, an American company. Lets just close C&G now if we support something that could force the end of GM.

[post="27828"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

A strike is not the answer, the proposals put forth by Delphi are not the answer, the beefed up severence and bonus's were definantly not the answer and only added to the fire.

Somewhere in here both sides and government are going to really need to scrutinize the problem and come up with a real answer to a problem that is way larger than some of the simpletons here have painted it.

Just view some of the posts made here. Nothing ever gets accomplished with one side throwing up such a negative narrow minded hatred toward a large segment of the work force.

Little to nothing is going to keep these American companys running with the current trade agreements in place. So go work there and replace a striking worker, you will be out on the street in no time yourself.

buy Toyota, Honda, BMW, Audi, VW and live with the results

Tic toc, tic toc, tic toc, tic toc

[razoredge]

Experience with what?  Is working on an assembly line a prerequisite for expressing opinion?  Odd, I thought my college education gave me a pretty good leg to stand on.  I guess you HS diploma/GED carriers working yourselves to death for the same pay I work half as hard for know more than me.

[post="27922"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Your college ed and another 20 years should be a better package by that time. Right now its just all cocky BS with a minimal amount of life time experiences in which many deeper discoverys will be made, maybe not from your protected little world, or maybe its not protected, at which time you will have your chance to review history.

As for this part "I guess you HS diploma/GED carriers working yourselves to death for the same pay I work half as hard for know more than me." Thats the WWF mentality I was taking about.

It is actually nice that you keep things so brief :lol:

[daves87rs]

If it has to be done to protect the future of America and protect jobs. So be it.

[post="27807"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Let's hope not. :(

[daves87rs]

"protect the future of America"? :lol: Right, thats what the union mobs are doing.  :rolleyes:  More like the future of their wallets.

[post="27844"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:blink:

[CaddyXLR-V]

A strike is not the answer, the proposals put forth by Delphi are not the answer, the beefed up severence and bonus's were definantly not the answer and only added to the fire.

Somewhere in here both sides and government are going to really need to scrutinize the problem and come up with a real answer to a problem that is way larger than some of the simpletons here have painted it.

Just view some of the posts made here. Nothing ever gets accomplished with one side throwing up such a negative narrow minded hatred toward a large segment of the work force.

Little to nothing is going to keep these American companys running with the current trade agreements in place. So go work there and replace a striking worker, you will be out on the street in no time yourself.

buy Toyota, Honda, BMW, Audi, VW and live with the results

Tic toc, tic toc, tic toc, tic toc

[post="27925"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I wouldnt hold my breathe waiting for the Govt to do anything. GM and Ford will be dead before they acknowledge there may have been a problem with our current system.

[razoredge]

ever wonder if the trade agreements went up as a public bill if they would have been voted through or not ? It completely splits the population. Those that benefit from it and those that suffer from it. Maybe its even darn close as far as splitting the country as the Civil War was. Not in the war sence but in the split. History has shown its not a good thing when a country has one motivation that doesnt work for a large part of the population. Face it this global shit is benefiting other countries far more than ours. Right here is the evidence :unsure:

[Cremazie]

If it has to be done to protect the future of America and protect jobs. So be it.

[post="27807"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I don't know exactly what can protect the future of American and Canadian manufacturing jobs. It it getting worst, and fast. There was a news story on CBC last night, it stated that since September 2004 there have been 114,000 job losses in the manufacturing sector in Canada, Obviously there have been far more losses in the US. There are options that have yet to be entertained.
First we let Japanese car makers sell cars here, and ultimately all cars will be built with Korean and Chinese parts. The Equinox gets its engines from China already.. it is only a trial run to see how well it works out. I am willing to bet that they will be building more engines in China soon enough.
I am for GM offsourcing parts if they have to, but they shouldn't have to. The government should step in and put it bluntly(to Japan):
"Stop de-valuing your currency and Either your companies build all your cars in the United States with mostly American Parts, or you let us sell our cars directly in Japan with American parts".
Our Auto makers are delt an uneven hand, and have to try and make up for it somehow. Unless the government trys to fix the Asian trade practices we will watch Delphi offshore all of their capacity in the medium to long term. Edited October 13, 2005 by Cremazie

[bowtie_dude]

Your college ed and another 20 years should be a better package by that time. Right now its just all cocky BS with a minimal amount of life time experiences in which many deeper discoverys will be made, maybe not from your protected little world, or maybe its not protected, at which time you will have your chance to review history.

As for this part "I guess you HS diploma/GED carriers working yourselves to death for the same pay I work half as hard for know more than me." Thats the WWF mentality I was taking about.

It is actually nice that you keep things so brief  :lol:

[post="27927"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'll first start out by apologizing for my comment, it was uncalled for.

But, I will go on by saying that my views on this entire situation have nothing to do with my experience and that my young age shouldn't be a factor in the weight of my words.

My "little world" isn't protected by anyone but myself. I work in the information industry. My job is to make sure other people in my company (Host Communications) can do their job. Like I was told the first time I screwed up big time (I lost someones email archive when I reloaded their laptop, someone important), "I do not make this company any money. My job is to make sure everyone else can, and if I can't do that, then the company has no reason to keep me on."

Now unless Bull Run (our parent company) decides to move the entire company overseas, which is possible albeit unlikely, then my job is safe as long as I do it. Because I have needed skills, I'm internal tech support.

Now, 4 years ago I was a Computer Science major heading towards a career of coding for the rest of my life. Thank God I got out of that, because look whats happening to all the programming jobs!

The way I see it is that America is progressing naturally. We've been moving towards and information-based economy for decades now, and this is the start of the final big movement away from an industrial economy. It doesn't take a lot of skills to work on a factory line these days, robots take care of most of the really hard work.

Maybe instead of bitching and moaning about the loss of industrial jobs everyone should think about actually ACQUIRING skills in a field that is needed and wanted? Just a thought.

[Guest swallowit]

i am proud to see people standing up for their rights this is what makes america so powerful

[bowtie_dude]

i am proud to see people standing up for their rights

this is what makes america so powerful

[post="28144"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You have no right to a job, regardless of what socialists would have you believe no one owes you anything.

[CARBIZ]

Bowtie, you are right on the money, but Razoredge's comments are valid, too. You are happy that you made the correct career choice a few years ago - great for you, but what about those tens of thousands of people with mortgages, 3 kids and 20 years at the same place. Do you have any concept of how scary it is to be facing a pink slip at 40 or 45 years of age? I completely changed my career at 35 years of age. I gambled and lost. I lost my home, my car - everything. It has taken me 9 years to climb out of that hole. Not everyone can go back to university or college. Money stresses are the number one cause of marriage break up. Change is good and it is easy when you are in your early and mid-2os with lots of options in front of you. When you get to your late 30s, let me tell you from experience, your entire world changes. So let's show a little compassion for these people who may be losing their jobs over the next few years. It isn't easy going from $60k to $30k I know. I was there once.

[evok]

If it has to be done to protect the future of America and protect jobs. So be it.

[post="27807"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That is the point of all this, there is no future unless fixed costs are equalized.

Supplier line jobs are not worth any more than 10 - 15 bucks an hour. Other Tier 1 US suppiers do not pay anywhere near Delphi and Visteon.

It is a hard truth to swallow but it is the truth.

Both Delphi and Visteon must get there labor rates equalized with the rest of the industry if those jobs are to stay in this country.

GM's problems with labor are a little different than what DPH face. GM needs flexibility on work rules, retirement and jobs bank. The labor rate for the most part at GM is on par with the rest of the industry. Yes, GM needs to close factories and par down their labor force but will continue to build their product over here.

Delphi and Visteon do not need to build in the US. There are different costs associated with General Assembly and component manufacturing. Edited October 13, 2005 by evok

[evok]

If it has to be done to protect the future of America and protect jobs. So be it.

[post="27807"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If Delphi were to be shut down for a period close to the 1998 walkout and subsequently shut down GM. It would be over. All hell would break loose and what the outcome would be is any bodies guess. The ramification would not be pretty for labor. That I can assure you.

[bowtie_dude]

Bowtie, you are right on the money, but Razoredge's comments are valid, too.  You are happy that you made the correct career choice a few years ago - great for you, but what about those tens of thousands of people with mortgages, 3 kids and 20 years at the same place.  Do you have any concept of how scary it is to be facing a pink slip at 40 or 45 years of age? 
  I completely changed my career at 35 years of age.  I gambled and lost.  I lost my home, my car - everything.  It has taken me 9 years to climb out of that hole.
  Not everyone can go back to university or college. 
  Money stresses are the number one cause of marriage break up.
  Change is good and it is easy when you are in your early and mid-2os with lots of options in front of you.  When you get to your late 30s, let me tell you from experience, your entire world changes. 
  So let's show a little compassion for these people who may be losing their jobs over the next few years. 
  It isn't easy going from $60k to $30k
  I know.  I was there once.

[post="28148"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I have compassion for the individuals, not the group. But I also see the company's point of view. This has got to stop being us and them or NO ONE is going to have a job. And the UAW going on strike shows how little thought they're putting into it.

[evok]

Bowtie, you are right on the money, but Razoredge's comments are valid, too.  You are happy that you made the correct career choice a few years ago - great for you, but what about those tens of thousands of people with mortgages, 3 kids and 20 years at the same place.  Do you have any concept of how scary it is to be facing a pink slip at 40 or 45 years of age? 
  I completely changed my career at 35 years of age.  I gambled and lost.  I lost my home, my car - everything.  It has taken me 9 years to climb out of that hole.
  Not everyone can go back to university or college. 
  Money stresses are the number one cause of marriage break up.
  Change is good and it is easy when you are in your early and mid-2os with lots of options in front of you.  When you get to your late 30s, let me tell you from experience, your entire world changes. 
  So let's show a little compassion for these people who may be losing their jobs over the next few years. 
  It isn't easy going from $60k to $30k
  I know.  I was there once.

[post="28148"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

With compassion to your situation and potential fall out for DPH I would just like to put some facts on the table.

Out of the 24,000 UAW worker affected:

19,500 have seniority prior to May 28, 1999. Most likely these workers have enough seniority to retire if their demographics are like the rest of GM's union workforce. These workers average age is probably in the mid 50's with 25+ service with GM/DPH. Edited October 13, 2005 by evok

[Cadillacfan]

Although having unions is a good thing, the UAW is way to corrupt to make anything positive happen for GM, Ford, Chrysler, and the parts suppliers of America. It's like the United Nations of today. Everyone heading it wants their own piece of the pie and they pretend they're holding back for the people. Fortunately, the UAW is starting to get it's act together since slightly unhappy UAW workers is better then unemployed UAW workers.

[Clownzilla]

"Delphi China.............Selling quality parts since 2006"

[Cremazie]

Although having unions is a good thing, the UAW is way to corrupt to make anything positive happen for GM, Ford, Chrysler, and the parts suppliers of America.  It's like the United Nations of today.  Everyone heading it wants their own piece of the pie and they pretend they're holding back for the people.
Fortunately, the UAW is starting to get it's act together since slightly unhappy UAW workers is better then unemployed UAW workers.

[post="28170"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Sadly enough as it may sound, the UAW wants to keep as many workers working as possible, not for the better of the workers, but for the increased revenue of workers dues. The UAW is just much a business as GM is! Edited October 13, 2005 by Cremazie

[razoredge]

Well I wasnt really looking for compassion, compassion after the fact is BS.I was looking at reality. Getting up some answers to the unbalanced trade in the world and its effect on our country is the only priority, but it wont happen because the big shots are benefiting from this. While its obvious to me that from both blue and white collar workers lower in the food chain it is rocking their world. I beleive the decisions of a countrys government are supposed to favor its population. Even if they do not favor one demographic of the population they certainly are not suppose to destroy them..........HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bowtiedude- your views on ed and self improvement are noble of ideals and principles. They bare no reality of application to a diverse population. Forget that some folks just arent really bright, there are others that have learning problems or attention problems then theres the big one, just plain arent interested in these fields of work others may find interesting. I'm not dumb by any streach but I hated school so much I must have quit in my mind nearly everyday the last 2 years of school. I wound have done nothing but been a big waste of money at a college, I knew it and turned down all oppertunities to go. All potential fields suggested to me made my skin crawl. It was not work for me. I also couldnt work an assembly line and I couldnt sit in an office. When I was young this did not mean I wouldnt have work, it still does not, having work is one thing, being able earn enough to be in the game is getting very hard. I search jobs all the time, I see the pay of some of these "competitive" white collar jobs too and let me tell you I know many of them are in the same boat. Like I said from the beginning we have an entire population to think about here. You all are acting like the job market could handle all these manufacturing workers after they get 4 year degrees and enter your fields of work. Then in the next paragraph you will say "we all had to take cuts, we had to start again, we have to compete for our jobs ". Perhaps you should listen to that. Your four year degree would be great for me, Id be 51, trying to get hired for a job with 100 23 year olds for competition. Reality! These and many other reasons is why I, on occasion when I have had about enough of the pipe dream, bring up the fact that many here just havent had enough experience to see the reality of some of their proposals or ideals. This Evok may be one of them, its impossible to live in this world today on 10-12 dollars an hour. It does not get you through the door with 400 dollars a week. Rent, utilities, food, and car payments & insurance can not be supported on this money. No savings can be made, forget that, it will be a continous game of bill juggling and in no time it will come to a head. Hell gasoline consumption will be 50-80 per week from here on out. thats 200-300 a month right there. Auto insurance for two car family is 200 a month, rents are from 500 - 800 higher in urban areas. Im just talking my area which is considered low. Morgages are almost always near 1000 anywhere and house today. Higher in other areas. Hell if you own your house outright, you need from 200-400 a month just for property taxes. So ask me what economic courses I took, Ill ask what economic courses did you take ? Must have been ones in which things didnt need to pass the calculator test ? That economics ?

[razoredge]

Sadly enough as it may sound, the UAW wants to keep as many workers working as possible, not for the better of the workers, but for the increased revenue of workers dues. The UAW is just much a business as GM is!

[post="28189"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I think its had more to do with keeping jobs in this country and keeping the pension plans solid.

[razoredge]

"Delphi China.............Selling quality parts since 2006"

[post="28188"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Incoherent babblings of a moron

was your first girlfriend the daughter of a Union worker who called you for what you are ? I see there is some serious issues here.

[evok]

These and many other reasons is why I, on occasion when I have had about enough of the pipe dream, bring up the fact that many here just havent had enough experience to see the reality of some of their proposals or ideals.

This Evok may be one of them, its impossible to live in this world today on 10-12 dollars an hour. It does not get you through the door with 400 dollars a week. Rent, utilities, food, and car payments & insurance can not be supported on this money. No savings can be made, forget that, it will be a continous game of bill juggling and in no time it will come to a head.  Hell gasoline consumption will be 50-80 per week from here on out. thats 200-300 a month right there. Auto insurance for two car family is 200 a month, rents are from 500 - 800 higher in urban areas. Im just talking my area which is considered low. Morgages are almost always near 1000 anywhere and house today. Higher in other areas. Hell if you own your house outright, you need from 200-400 a month just for property taxes.

Don't wrap me up into you little tirade over the past week. If you actually have been reading my posts you would see that I am just pointing out the realities of today's automotive environment.

My suggestion to you is get over it. DPH has filed Chapter 11. Wages will drop to the levels that are harmonized with the rest of the auto supplier industry.

[bowtie_dude]

I actually only have a two-year degree/. ^_^ But thats beside the point. Who says they need a college education? There are all kinds of employable (into the future) skill sets that you don't acquire on a college campus. Welding, carpentry, mechanics, landscaping, etc etc. But why do they have to lose their jobs? I mean, I can understand being use to a certain way of life, but picketing will only cause the company to buck and pull out faster. Its the job if the CEO and CFO of a company to make sure it stays in business, ie, makes money. And if they can't do that AND employ Americans, they'll either die or outsource.

[razoredge]

I actually only have a two-year degree/.  ^_^

But thats beside the point.  Who says they need a college education?  There are all kinds of employable (into the future) skill sets that you don't acquire on a college campus.  Welding, carpentry, mechanics, landscaping, etc etc.

But why do they have to lose their jobs?  I mean, I can understand being use to a certain way of life, but picketing will only cause the company to buck and pull out faster.  Its the job if the CEO and CFO of a company to make sure it stays in business, ie, makes money.  And if they can't do that AND employ Americans, they'll either die or outsource.

[post="28220"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

correct, that is why I say the largest contributor, is the problem that needs to be dealt with too.

I didnt mean you when I said "your" 4 year degree. I was referencing typical college ed. Glad to hear you got something good out of your 2 years, thats impressive.

[razoredge]

Don't wrap me up into you little tirade over the past week.

I will continue to stand up for the wages of men and woman that go to work and do their jobs everyday while living in this current environment in this country, if that is a tirade........so be it.

If you actually have been reading my posts you would see that I am just pointing out the realities of today's automotive environment.

Likewise, if you had been reading my posts you would have seen that I was just pointing out the realities of paying bills in the current "economic" environment. Thereby knowing better than to ever insist a man or woman should ever work for 10 dollars an hour. If one insists on saying all anyone deserves for - - - - is 10-15 dollars an hour, deal with what I have to say about that !

Just pulling unknown figures out of my head.... If a corporate officer is worth 500,000 to a million a year Id say workforce members are worth 250,000  :blink: . If doctors and lawyers are worth 250-500,000 a year Id say the rest of Americas workforce is worth 50-80,000  :blink:  

My suggestion to you is get over it.  DPH has filed Chapter 11.  Wages will drop to the levels that are harmonized with the rest of the auto supplier industry.

I suggest you get over your little pipe dream of screwing the current and future population of America out of a chance to live competively in the current and future economic environment being created in this country. What makes anyone thing I give a crap about there other "auto suppliers" why dont you just say foreign or third world ? What am I supposed to care about them ? NOT ! Until the root of the problem is dealt with this will be the scenerio of most American businesses, the Ch11 is a big joke when you get down to it. Like I said before do you really think economists and planers did not chart this all out 30 years ago ? Now we all wanna act surprised and pissed off and point the finger at the workforce ? Me, get over what ?

[post="28217"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Edited October 13, 2005 by razoredge

[bowtie_dude]

correct, that is why I say the largest contributor, is the problem that needs to be dealt with too.

I didnt mean you when I said "your" 4 year degree. I was referencing typical college ed. Glad to hear you got something good out of your 2 years, thats impressive.

[post="28225"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

"largest contributor"? I'm not following you.

[razoredge]

"largest contributor"?  I'm not following you.

[post="28237"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

world economics, trade policies, we dont live in a world environment, we live in the American environment. We dont have one world leader, we have American "leaders", they are supposed to be looking out for whats good for our country not Japan, China, India, Turkey, Mexico, Brazil.

Calling that socialist, or dated ideas, or protectionalist, is BS, its about maintaining decent standard of living within our country, our concern. Perhaps raising the rest of the world to our standards is "socialism". Perhaps catering to wealthy corporate execs and wallstreet investors is "protectionizm" ?

perhaps throwing X percentage of the American population into poverty is "communism" or "Imperialism" or ... ?

:unsure: Edited October 13, 2005 by razoredge

[The O.C.]

[post="28230"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Dude....are you for REAL...? No wonder EVOK dismisses your rants so often....I'm sorry....IMHO (and that's ALL it is) it just seems like you are so close-minded and clueless about anything outside your realm of influence.....

Do you know how many lower-income (non-automotive) workers in this country would be THRILLED to have a job where they could make $10-$15/hour? AND have decent benefits? THOSE people have families....and have bills to pay.....and food to put on the table. They just don't live the same quality-of-life that we all do. They have to live (mostly) within their OWN means.

Contrary to popular opinion (and I know there are many that disagree) this country will not live or die simply by the domestic auto industry ALONE. I'm sorry....in this day-and-age, it's just simply not as big a factor as it used to be....regardless of the statistics of how many people may be tied into the industry. WHY? Well, the domestic auto industry lost the battle already a long time ago....now they are just trying to survive. And the domestic auto industry CAN survive...and even prosper....but not by hanging on to the glorified ego-centric vision of itself that it's held for 100 years or so.

Doom-and-gloom was widely predicted when the steel industries started their downturn....doom-and-gloom didn't come.

This country adapted, changed, and grew into new business sectors....many and most of them that are growing, prospering, and providing very nice for the people that work in them and support those industries.

This country will also rebound from whatever downturn we continue to see in the domestic auto industry.

Like it's been said before, the people that have grown up in this industry will survive and prosper...but they HAVE to commit to a fundamental change in their lives and careers.....

[evok]

Dude....are you for REAL...?  No wonder EVOK dismisses your rants so often....I'm sorry....IMHO (and that's ALL it is) it just seems like you are so close-minded and clueless about anything outside your realm of influence.....

Do you know how many lower-income (non-automotive) workers in this country would be THRILLED to have a job where they could make $10-$15/hour?  AND have decent benefits?  THOSE people have families....and have bills to pay.....and food to put on the table.  They just don't live the same quality-of-life that we all do.  They have to live (mostly) within their OWN means. 

Contrary to popular opinion (and I know there are many that disagree) this country will not live or die simply by the domestic auto industry ALONE.  I'm sorry....in this day-and-age, it's just simply not as big a factor as it used to be....regardless of the statistics of how many people may be tied into the industry.  WHY?  Well, the domestic auto industry lost the battle already a long time ago....now they are just trying to survive.  And the domestic auto industry CAN survive...and even prosper....but not by hanging on to the glorified ego-centric vision of itself that it's held for 100 years or so.

Doom-and-gloom was widely predicted when the steel industries started their downturn....doom-and-gloom didn't come.

This country adapted, changed, and grew into new business sectors....many and most of them that are growing, prospering, and providing very nice for the people that work in them and support those industries.

This country will also rebound from whatever downturn we continue to see in the domestic auto industry. 

Like it's been said before, the people that have grown up in this industry will survive and prosper...but they HAVE to commit to a fundamental change in their lives and careers.....

[post="28257"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Could not have said it any better myself.

[bowtie_dude]

Dude....are you for REAL...?  No wonder EVOK dismisses your rants so often....I'm sorry....IMHO (and that's ALL it is) it just seems like you are so close-minded and clueless about anything outside your realm of influence.....

Do you know how many lower-income (non-automotive) workers in this country would be THRILLED to have a job where they could make $10-$15/hour?  AND have decent benefits?  THOSE people have families....and have bills to pay.....and food to put on the table.  They just don't live the same quality-of-life that we all do.  They have to live (mostly) within their OWN means. 

Contrary to popular opinion (and I know there are many that disagree) this country will not live or die simply by the domestic auto industry ALONE.  I'm sorry....in this day-and-age, it's just simply not as big a factor as it used to be....regardless of the statistics of how many people may be tied into the industry.  WHY?  Well, the domestic auto industry lost the battle already a long time ago....now they are just trying to survive.  And the domestic auto industry CAN survive...and even prosper....but not by hanging on to the glorified ego-centric vision of itself that it's held for 100 years or so.

Doom-and-gloom was widely predicted when the steel industries started their downturn....doom-and-gloom didn't come.

This country adapted, changed, and grew into new business sectors....many and most of them that are growing, prospering, and providing very nice for the people that work in them and support those industries.

This country will also rebound from whatever downturn we continue to see in the domestic auto industry. 

Like it's been said before, the people that have grown up in this industry will survive and prosper...but they HAVE to commit to a fundamental change in their lives and careers.....

[post="28257"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:cheers: :bowdown:

[bowtie_dude]

world economics, trade policies, we dont live in a world environment, we live in the American environment. We dont have one world leader, we have American "leaders", they are supposed to be looking out for whats good for our country not Japan, China, India, Turkey, Mexico, Brazil.

Calling that socialist, or dated ideas, or protectionalist, is BS, its about maintaining decent standard of living within our country, our concern. Perhaps raising the rest of the world to our standards is "socialism". Perhaps catering to wealthy corporate execs and wallstreet investors is "protectionizm" ?

perhaps throwing X percentage of the American population into poverty is "communism" or "Imperialism" or ... ?

:unsure:

[post="28250"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Protectionism, which is what you're proposing, will kill this country faster than anything you can imagine. America will not survive on its industrial strength. It hasn't really LIVED on its industrial strength in probably a decade anyway.

Microsoft, Cisco, Sun Microsystems, Google, Yahoo...these are the "industries" of the future.

[Clownzilla]

Incoherent babblings of a moron

was your first girlfriend the daughter of a Union worker who called you for what you are ? I see there is some serious issues here.

[post="28210"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I only speak the truth..............GM America will soon be GM America (built in China)

[Ghost Dog]

With compassion to your situation and potential fall out for DPH I would just like to put some facts on the table.

Out of the 24,000 UAW worker affected:

19,500 have seniority prior to May 28, 1999.  Most likely these workers have enough seniority to retire if their demographics are like the rest of GM's union workforce.  These workers average age is probably in the mid 50's with 25+ service with GM/DPH.

[post="28160"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

But what of Thier pensions? Pennies on the dollar? Or full and intact?

[Ghost Dog]

Don't wrap me up into you little tirade over the past week.  If you actually have been reading my posts you would see that I am just pointing out the realities of today's automotive environment. 

My suggestion to you is get over it.  DPH has filed Chapter 11.  Wages will drop to the levels that are harmonized with the rest of the auto supplier industry.

[post="28217"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

If the Pensions are intact. And Harmonized wages means a Pattern Agreement based on a Similar supplier such as Bosch. Then Ok. But Somehow I doubt that Miller is looking to Harmonize.

[Cremazie]

I only speak the truth..............GM America will soon be GM America (built in China)

[post="28347"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

How sad, but true! :angry:

[bowtie_dude]

How sad, but true!  :angry:

[post="28387"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I blame the lawyers...

...and Canada.

[Clownzilla]

...and Canada.

[post="28388"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Their not a real country anyway........

[Cory Wolfe]

This Evok may be one of them, its impossible to live in this world today on 10-12 dollars an hour. It does not get you through the door with 400 dollars a week. Rent, utilities, food, and car payments & insurance can not be supported on this money. No savings can be made, forget that, it will be a continous game of bill juggling and in no time it will come to a head.

Likewise, if you had been reading my posts you would have seen that I was just pointing out the realities of paying bills in the current "economic" environment. Thereby knowing better than to ever insist a man or woman should ever work for 10 dollars an hour. If one insists on saying all anyone deserves for - - - - is 10-15 dollars an hour, deal with what I have to say about that !

Um...

Do you know how many lower-income (non-automotive) workers in this country would be THRILLED to have a job where they could make $10-$15/hour? AND have decent benefits? THOSE people have families....and have bills to pay.....and food to put on the table. They just don't live the same quality-of-life that we all do. They have to live (mostly) within their OWN means.

My parents would definitely be thrilled...

Yet, according to Razor, it's impossible for us to live in this world. :unsure:

[CaddyXLR-V]

My parents make about 10-15 per hr. I dont recall not having food to eat, or place to live. Sure there have been some hard times, but that was because they spent more than they could afford to spend. You cant go out buying a new car every year on 10-15 an hour, but I would hardly call that poverty.

[CARBIZ]

I don't know how Canada got dragged into this increasingly silly argument. Delphi's troubles have nothing to do with us. GM builds a lot of cars here, but then we BUY a half million GM cars every year here, too. Funny, you talk to a lot of Canadians who are against Free Trade, and they think all our manufacturing jobs are going to Mexico and that American companies are taking us over. Eatons was Canada's oldest and biggest department store chain and they are now gone, largely thanks to Wal-Mart. I watch South Park, too - DON'T BLAME CANADA

[evok]

If the  Pensions are intact. And Harmonized wages means a Pattern Agreement based on a Similar supplier such as Bosch. Then Ok. But Somehow I doubt that Miller is looking to Harmonize.

[post="28383"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Could you post a link to the agreement?

[Ghost Dog]

Could you post a link to the agreement?

[post="28517"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hmm I can't find one. Since there is no comparison agreement. The Delphi Employees will have to Stick to thier guns. And Shut them Down if Miller does'nt see the error in his ways.



I'll say again Delphi Should be Liquidated. to Fund the pensions. GM will have to buy the plants they are dependent on. And cut a new post liquidation deal with the U.A.W.

Likewise Others dependant on Delphi plants. The Delphi workers have the Entire Industry by the Balls. They just have to squeeze.

It's becoming pretty clear. If Left to Miller, its a war to death.

[Cremazie]

Eatons was Canada's oldest and biggest department store chain and they are now gone, largely thanks to Wal-Mart.

[post="28495"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Two notes:
The Bay is the Oldest Company in Canada and the oldest in the world.
Sears Bought the assets of Eatons, which is a Chicago owned company... yeah
BLAME CANADA! lol

[razoredge]

Dude....are you for REAL...?  No wonder EVOK dismisses your rants so often....I'm sorry....IMHO (and that's ALL it is) it just seems like you are so close-minded and clueless about anything outside your realm of influence.....

Gee thats funny, Im one of the few here that has pointed out all the problems and stuck to the idea of fixing the entire problem. But your a superhero anyhow all your "futures so brite" soldiers gave you a big salute. Why do you ask if Im for real, your not thinking this is my first day plantet earth are you ? Your not thinkin I dont know about wages, labor, paying bills ? Clueless about anything outside of my realm of ?influence?, so just exactly what is that ? Are you so sure your in touch if you say this of me ?

Do you know how many lower-income (non-automotive) workers in this country would be THRILLED to have a job where they could make $10-$15/hour?  AND have decent benefits?  THOSE people have families....and have bills to pay.....and food to put on the table.  They just don't live the same quality-of-life that we all do.  They have to live (mostly) within their OWN means.

What is it your saying here ? Its so full of holes and errors is silly. "lower income...thrilled" this is exactly what I have been saying. You all are suggesting reducing all jobs to "lower income thrills". Dont tell me about 10 -12-14 dollars an hour, been there done it, very recently, 10 set me back for the two years that I did it. Spent money I had saved previously, life came to a standstill, and I have no mortgage just property tax's and utilities, insurance. The households second income is above your 15 with piss poor, fairly expensive health contributions, unsteady hours, and nearly worthless 401 because who can contribute. Incidently I will point out again that for the past 7 years the health insurance has taking above and beyond the annual wage increases of the 2nd job. And you want to ask me about reality and try to make me look ignorant or dumb ? Well you got your salute, so thats worth alot. Gas, auto insurance, utilities have further hit any improvements I've made in my income. GOod thing we bought this house 15 years ago. I couldnt get into a house in todays market. But thats most likely because............ Im not for real ?  

Contrary to popular opinion (and I know there are many that disagree) this country will not live or die simply by the domestic auto industry ALONE.  I'm sorry....in this day-and-age, it's just simply not as big a factor as it used to be....regardless of the statistics of how many people may be tied into the industry.  WHY?  Well, the domestic auto industry lost the battle already a long time ago....now they are just trying to survive.  And the domestic auto industry CAN survive...and even prosper....but not by hanging on to the glorified ego-centric vision of itself that it's held for 100 years or so.

I am not only concerned about American auto industry, once again we need jobs for a large varity of Americans.... and Im closed minded ?  K

Doom-and-gloom was widely predicted when the steel industries started their downturn....doom-and-gloom didn't come.

I dont know anything about the steel industry and what went on and when but this I do know the cost of steel in this country has tripled in the last three years....... We have all conviently forgot about way back when, back when Mr Wagner himself said GM had suffered great losses from rising steel costs, operation costs related to oil and rising health care costs. So how about that steel cost ? How did destroying the American steel industry work out ? I wont pursue the other two, yet again.

This country adapted, changed, and grew into new business sectors....many and most of them that are growing, prospering, and providing very nice for the people that work in them and support those industries.

This country will also rebound from whatever downturn we continue to see in the domestic auto industry. 

Like it's been said before, the people that have grown up in this industry will survive and prosper...but they HAVE to commit to a fundamental change in their lives and careers.....

The rest it just gospel preachin pep talk that ignores the impacts of large populations that need to live another 20-30 years or so in the mean time.

[post="28257"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

But beings how its so popular
:bowdown:
Couldnt have said it better Edited October 14, 2005 by razoredge