"Lucerne ready to do battle in luxury field"

[wildcat]

Here is a brief article, "Buick: Lucerne ready to do battle in luxury field," from the October 12th Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

[Ultra Magnus]

Im glad he feels that way but it reads mostly as a GM sourced press clipping. Edited October 12, 2005 by Ultra Magnus

[Cadillacfan]

Nothing wrong with that. Any good media no matter how "fake" it may seem, is still good media.

[Ultra Magnus]

Dont get me wrong, I like the car. Add a six speed and its really ready to fight lexus. But I think its time that we read and actual test drive instead of someone reading the info and telling us what we know.

[Cananopie]

He was far less critical than most will be. But Buick needs articles like this for people who normally look over Buick to look twice.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

This car doesn't stand a chance against any Lexus or import. It looks like a Chevy, has the dashboard of a Chevy, it has 4 speeds and a dated, weak V-6, and has less passenger and cargo room than either predecessor and some actual competitors.

[VenSeattle]

This car doesn't stand a chance against any Lexus or import. It looks like a Chevy, has the dashboard of a Chevy, it has 4 speeds and a dated, weak V-6, and has less passenger and cargo room than either predecessor and some actual competitors.

[post="27736"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I can understand why you may not like it, but I seriously suggest sitting in it and trying it out before thinking it'll be a complete failure. The interior space is more than enough & so is the trunk. Not everyone shopping in the large car market is looking for the "largest" vehicle out there. Besides, against imports (Avalon) & Lexus (ES330), the Lucerne's trunk is still larger.

I don't see LeSabre or Park Avenue owners left wanting from their previous car compared to the new Lucerne. I know I'm not. In pics, the Impala & Lucerne's dash may look similar, but the Lucerne's interior is far better executed and more upscale in person.

[Drew Dowdell]

it has 4 speeds and a dated, weak V-6,

only if you buy the models that cost less then a Lexus. Hit 30k and you're into Northstar territory. 4-speed or not, a northstar Lucerne will cream an ES330. The 4-speed v. 5-speed isn't as much an issue in this class as long as the transmission is smooth, trouble free, and efficent.

If the performance is similar or better with a 4-speed, yet you still have a problem with it, you need to look elseware for the source of your issues.

[ToniCipriani]

This car doesn't stand a chance against any Lexus or import. It looks like a Chevy, has the dashboard of a Chevy, it has 4 speeds and a dated, weak V-6, and has less passenger and cargo room than either predecessor and some actual competitors.

[post="27736"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Photos and on paper specs don't do justice. Sit in a car before you criticize it. Things may look bad on paper, but actually works very well.

[johnnyb]

If the performance is similar or better with a 4-speed, yet you still have a problem with it, you need to look elseware for the source of your issues.

[post="27752"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It's a bland Buick that won't get a second look from a non-GM knowledgable person.

Hate to say this, but I'd take the Lexus. Or even better, a Cadillac!

The Velite-like replacement can't come any sooner... <_< Edited October 12, 2005 by johnnyb

[turbo200]

I don't think it will set the market on fire, or even rejuvenate Buick the way they need it, but it will get some conquest sales and it will sell well. It is a NICE car, but it is not the breakthrough product Buick really needed. It will cater well to Buick's current audience, and will actually branch out and pick up some non-Buick fans, but not enough of those to justify its existence.

[Cory Wolfe]

Ooh... A Pittsburgh article. Cool.

[HarleyEarl]

I think this article is way too sugary sweet. This is no luxury car, near, near luxury maybe. Edited October 12, 2005 by HarleyEarl

[Flybrian]

I think this article is way too sugary sweet.  This is no luxury car, near, near luxury maybe.

[post="27858"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Um...how is it not a luxury car?

[andy82471]

Um...how is it not a luxury car?

[post="27860"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

A car with a 3.8L 195 HP pushrod V6 does not qualify as a luxuray car. It also brings down the value of the V8 powered versions. GM really goofed on this one. GM really really cannot afford more slipups like this.

[Newbiewar]

A car with a 3.8L 195 HP pushrod V6 does not qualify as a luxuray car. It also brings down the value of the V8 powered versions. GM really goofed on this one. GM really really cannot afford more slipups like this.

[post="27900"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

so a luxuary car is based on hp?

I timed my friends 3 series bmw and got a 22 second 0-60...

that was a luxuary car...

it felt great, it felt fast, it handled great, but it was slow as hell...

[Newbiewar]

so a luxuary car is based on hp?

I timed my friends 3 series bmw and got a 22 second 0-60...

that was a luxuary car...

it felt great, it felt fast, it handled great, but it was slow as hell...

[post="27947"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

ohh yea... I just bought an 02 Trans Am last week...

one of my coworker said i ought to have got a lexus...

I guess Horsepower isnt in his book...

[Member55]

so a luxuary car is based on hp?

I timed my friends 3 series bmw and got a 22 second 0-60...

that was a luxuary car...

it felt great, it felt fast, it handled great, but it was slow as hell...

[post="27947"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

0-60 in 22 seconds? :blink:

[VenSeattle]

A car with a 3.8L 195 HP pushrod V6 does not qualify as a luxuray car. It also brings down the value of the V8 powered versions. GM really goofed on this one. GM really really cannot afford more slipups like this.

[post="27900"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Uhm... The 2006 BMW 525 has 215 hp and starts at $42,500. Last year (yes 2004MY) It only had 184 hp.

Are you saying that a 2004 BMW 5-series with a 184hp I-6 isn't a luxury car? It was $42k without any options?


Horse power is not everything.

[Dsuupr]

The Lucerne is a beautiful car, but does it stand out enough to capture conquest buyers or does it just tide over current Buick owners? Quality rankings will help, and I'm sure this one like all Buicks will be at the top. But what about stand out passion you say? Lexus hasn't had that and it's worked. Why not Buick?

[Paolino]

Not impressed... really. When are we going to start seeing real test drives of the Lucerne? I would have thought reviewers would have had a chance to snag one by now.

[Cremazie]

I am sure that the buick is going to have a tough time in reviews because of the competitors that it posses!

[andy82471]

so a luxuary car is based on hp?

I timed my friends 3 series bmw and got a 22 second 0-60...

that was a luxuary car...

it felt great, it felt fast, it handled great, but it was slow as hell...

[post="27947"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The BMW 3 series is a luxuary car in your opinion ? I don' think so. It is BMW's entry level sedan that appeals to people who cannot afford the 7 series but still wants to enjoy a Bimmer. Same thing with the LEXUS ES which is basically somewhat luxurious Camry. But the LUCERNE is suppose to be BUICK's top of the line flagship car. Do you know any other company that puts a sub 200 HP V6 engine in their flagship ? GM better correct this situation soon or very soon you will find LUCERNE selling at EMPLOYEE PRICING>

[Flybrian]

Do you know any other company that puts a sub 200 HP V6 engine in their flagship ?

[post="28228"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Chrysler.

[VenSeattle]

Chrysler.

[post="28229"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:cheers:

Chrysler 300 - 2.7L V-6 190 HP

[titan]

But the LUCERNE is suppose to be BUICK's top of the line flagship car. Do you know any other company that puts a sub 200 HP V6 engine in their flagship ? >

[post="28228"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Let's hope that's temporary. I'm still hoping for a V8 based, RWD, full body sedan for a flagship in a few years.

[The O.C.]

Uhm... The 2006 BMW 525 has 215 hp and starts at $42,500. Last year (yes 2004MY) It only had 184 hp.

Are you saying that a 2004 BMW 5-series with a 184hp I-6 isn't a luxury car? It was $42k without any options?
Horse power is not everything.

[post="28096"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

OMG.....don't tell me you are trying to compare a BMW inline-6cyl engine to the 3800?

BMW's sixes in ANY configuration are some of the smoothest, if not THE smoothest, most refined, and energetic engines on the market today.

THAT's the tell-tale of a true luxury car....not HP....and the base Lucerne won't come close to having a refined-enough powertrain to tempt ANY of those "import" luxury-car fans.

That was his point I believe.....

[VenSeattle]

OMG.....don't tell me you are trying to compare a BMW inline-6cyl engine to the 3800?

BMW's sixes in ANY configuration are some of the smoothest, if not THE smoothest, most refined, and energetic engines on the market today.

THAT's the tell-tale of a true luxury car....not HP....and the base Lucerne won't come close to having a refined-enough powertrain to tempt ANY of those "import" luxury-car fans.

That was his point I believe.....

[post="28278"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Thank you for agreeing with me that Horse Power isn't everything. For $42,000, the HP on the base 5-series was even worse than the up coming $27,000 Lucerne. Other factors made the 5-Series worth its price. That was my point. I personally believe that the Lucerne also has qualities that make it a luxury car. It's definitely worth the price.

Several HUNDRED THOUSAND people have recently purchased the 3800 in cars between $30k-$40k and are VERY happy with it. I don't think it will turn away any LeSabre owners or non-traditional potentials who actually get into the vehicle and test drive it. i recommend test driving the Lucerne before saying the Lucerne won't deliver a refined experience in the V6 models. Everything seems to indicate that the 3800 isn't noticeable. Check out the thread that the CX Lucerne is quieter than the current Lexus ES330.


I Edited this because I came across a little too bitter. OC is usually a reasonable person. :P Edited October 13, 2005 by VenSeattle

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

It could go either way... The Lucerne is impressive as a volume model. BUT, Buick needs to make a SPLASH to be noticed quickly again. I just hope the rags don't pan the 3800.... GM should've at least put a DOHC in this car... But, that said, it's STILL impressive and I think will STILL do well although Buick needs and deserves more.

[VenSeattle]

Well, cars between $27k-$35k are still in mainstream territory. I agree that Buick needs more exclusive vehicles, but the Lucerne has features that are usually reserved for exclusive vehicles. It's a good compromise until Zeta or what ever else can come around.

[andy82471]

Well, cars between $27k-$35k are still in mainstream territory. I agree that Buick needs more exclusive vehicles, but the Lucerne has features that are usually reserved for exclusive vehicles. It's a good compromise until Zeta or what ever else can come around.

[post="28364"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well the only problem with that scenario is that we don't know when and if Zeta is coming. And given GM's financial crunch it will be difficult for GM to finance any brand new platforms for quite some time. The deal with the UAW sounds promising although too early to tell if there will be any meaningful cost savings. But GM does have two good DOHC powertrains that it could have used. I think the base engine should have been the 3.6L VVT engine used in the LaCrosse and not the antiquated 3.8L engine. The 4.6L engine sounds promising although I am dissapointed they didn't use the Higher Output version of that engine. It is these small shortcomings in GM's execution that causes them to lose market share month after month year after year.

[The O.C.]

Don't expect any test-drives of V6 Lucernes....... Lutz told me that the NorthStar is the only Lucerne they will make available to the press....(presumably because he knows they would rip the 3800 V6 version apart....)

[evok]

Don't expect any test-drives of V6 Lucernes.......

Lutz told me that the NorthStar is the only Lucerne they will make available to the press....(presumably because he knows they would rip the 3800 V6 version apart....)

[post="30672"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Tell Uncle Bob I said hi next time you two go for a cigar break.

ha ha

We still need to talk.

[carman21]

The Lacrosse should have a 2.8L 210hp V-6 & a 3.6L 260hp V-6 The Lucerne should have a 3.6L 260hp V-6 and the 4.6L 291hp V-8. The DTS should have a 4.6L 275hp V-8 & a 4.6L 320hp V-8. Ok, that is all, goodbye, :P

[ponchoman49]

The point here is that all the 3800 defenders seem to be forgetting that this is 2006 not 1996. Hell the 1996 3800 engine had more hp and torque and was in a lighter car so at the time produced good power for a luxury car. A 2006 full size porker of a car that weights nearly 3900 lbs, uses lazy 2.86:1 gears and the same old tranny will produce lackluster acceleration at best, especially with 10 less hp. Why do people settle for second best? It's so obvious GM did this for cost cutting reasons and to use up all the remaining 3800's. No excuse whatsoever to have not used the excellent 3.6 with 240-250hp to at least be in the same ballpark as the Avalon.

[balthazar]

But the LUCERNE is suppose to be BUICK's top of the line flagship car.

The Lucerne is supposed to be the replacement for the LeSabre moreso (if at all) than for the Park Avenue. That would mean Buick is currently without a flagship sedan.
Ven- am I on track here?

[titan]

The Lacrosse should have a 2.8L 210hp V-6 & a 3.6L 260hp V-6
The Lucerne should have a 3.6L 260hp V-6 and the 4.6L 291hp V-8.
The DTS should have a 4.6L 275hp V-8 & a 4.6L 320hp V-8.
Ok, that is all, goodbye, :P

[post="30734"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'm almost with you.

The LaX should have a 3.6L 260 V6 only; and the upcoming V8 for the Super...
The Lucerne should have a 3.6L 260HP V6; 310HP N*.
The DTS should get a 10HP bump to 320HP as it's only engine choice.

[jry]

i believe in the logic of sit in a car before you judge it. that being said, you have got to get the people into the dealerships. there has to be a draw, some excitement about the product. especially if you are trying to get lexus, infinity or whatever competitors customers to defect or at least SIT IN the car before they judge it. gotta get the "oh, its just a buick" thinking out of their minds.

[Croc]

Frankly, I think the Lucerne has that draw. It is stunning, especially in red. The interior looks great. I really really want to read a real review on it, one that involved the author doing more than copy the spec sheet into prose. I hope GM got the handling right. I expect nothing less than the exact ride and handling of the 2nd Gen Aurora, if not even better.

[The O.C.]

The point here is that all the 3800 defenders seem to be forgetting that this is 2006 not 1996. Hell the 1996 3800 engine had more hp and torque and was in a lighter car so at the time produced good power for a luxury car. A 2006 full size porker of a car that weights nearly 3900 lbs, uses lazy 2.86:1 gears and the same old tranny will produce lackluster acceleration at best, especially with 10 less hp. Why do people settle for second best? It's so obvious GM did this for cost cutting reasons and to use up all the remaining 3800's. No excuse whatsoever to have not used the excellent 3.6 with 240-250hp to at least be in the same ballpark as the Avalon.

[post="32107"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Lutz also told me that capacity issues with the 3.6L is why Lucerne doesn't have it (and also why G6 doesn't have it.)

He also said that "protecting Cadillac" is why the Lucerne makes do with the "low-power" NorthStar.

As much as I like Bob, I think both reasons are bullshit.....and prime examples of the fu--ed up thinking that's kept GM from recapturing the hearts and minds of all the import owners that USED to own GM cars....

I've said before.....if you don't have "capacity" for a certain engine, but it's the engine that SHOULD be used, then do something to spend the money to get additional capacity.

Also, if your models are TRUE to their brand identities, then having a "high-power" NorthStar Lucerne is in NO way going to damage the image of a "high-power" DTS.

You don't see Lexus fretting that Toyota has a new Avalon has a bigger V6 with more power than their ES330......?

[Robert Hall]

But the LUCERNE is suppose to be BUICK's top of the line flagship car.

The Lucerne is supposed to be the replacement for the LeSabre moreso (if at all) than for the Park Avenue. That would mean Buick is currently without a flagship sedan.
Ven- am I on track here?

[post="32217"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well, since the PA is gone, the Lucerne is the defacto flagship sedan now...(after all, the PA never was offered with a V8). The Lucerne effectively replaced the LeSabre and the PA... any other talk of a flagship to come is just specualtion at this point..