Kappa cars to move to Bowling Green ~2011

[Flybrian]

GM May Close 2 More Plants Under Deal

Line workers at GM's Wilmington Plant, whose Kappa production will move by 2011/12
Associated Press | By TOM KRISHER | Link to Original Article @ Forbes

DETROIT - The tentative contract between General Motors Corp. and the United Auto Workers would allow GM to close a plant each in Michigan and Indiana and possibly shut down several other facilities, according to a detailed copy of the agreement.

The moves are the downside of job security pledges that the UAW won in the negotiations, including commitments for new products at 16 plants. About 74,000 hourly GM workers will vote on the pact starting this week, with a final tally to be done by Oct. 10.

Gregg Shotwell, a GM worker and frequent critic of the UAW, posted most of the contract details on the Internet. He said he received the agreement from a local union official who attended a Friday meeting in Detroit. He would not identify the official, but the accuracy of its contents was confirmed for The Associated Press by a union leader who requested anonymity because members have not yet voted on the pact.

The agreement would let GM sell or close a stamping plant in Indianapolis and close an engine plant in Livonia, in suburban Detroit. According to the detailed document, called the "white book," work at the Indianapolis stamping operation will continue or be reallocated to another GM plant "until such time as the plant can be sold to an outside buyer."

GM will study keeping the plant, but if it is not sold or kept, it will be closed "no sooner than December 2011," the document said. It employs about 850 workers, according to a GM Web site.

The Livonia plant, which now employs about 300, would remain open through its current product life cycle, which ends in 2010.

"The national parties will jointly explore opportunities for current Livonia seniority employees," the document said.

A stamping plant in Flint and a small powertrain operation in Parma, Ohio, near Cleveland, also may be in jeopardy, according to the document. For the Flint plant, under the heading "Product Opportunities," the document says only that the UAW and GM will explore opportunities for current Flint employees.

The document says no future powertrain products will be allocated to Parma, which also has a stamping operation that will continue with new generation products.

The document identifies as closing several smaller sites or factories that GM had previously said were going to be idled.

The Flint North engine plant will gain a new facility under the agreement. The document says GM will build three "lean, agile flex engine modules" at a new site near the plant. The new plant could build as many as 1,200 four- and six-cylinder engines per day.

Under the agreement, GM at present has no future product for the Orion Township assembly plant, which now makes the Pontiac G6, beyond 2013. But it says both parties will evaluate opportunities for future products. And the document says GM plans to transfer the Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice roadster production from Wilmington, Del., to Bowling Green, Ky., after 2011.

"No future product allocation has been identified beyond the life of the current agreement," the document says of Wilmington.

Messages seeking comment were left for UAW spokesman Roger Kerson and GM spokeswoman Katie McBride. In the past, GM has refused to comment on the agreement until the ratification vote is complete.

"This isn't a very genuine job security agreement," Shotwell said. "The UAW didn't win anything. The plants that are allowed to stay operating were already allowed to stay open."

Union leaders at other factories that received new products disagreed with Shotwell's assessment.

Dave Green, president of one of two locals in Lordstown, Ohio, said his plant got a commitment to build a new generation of GM small cars out of the deal. The company previously would not say what would be built at the plant near Cleveland after its current products, the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac G5, go out of production at the end of the 2009 model year.

GM and the UAW reached agreement on the contract last week after a two-day nationwide strike.

The UAW was seeking to protect jobs and slow its falling membership in this contract, and President Ron Gettelfinger said GM responded with "unprecedented product guarantees." GM committed to building current or existing products at 16 of its 18 U.S. assembly plants, according to the UAW's summary of the contract.

The deal was endorsed Friday by local union leaders. It also requires GM to pay out at least $35 billion to the union to set up a trust to handle retiree health care and establishes lower wages for thousands of new employees.

AP Auto Writer Dee-Ann Durbin contributed to this story.

[Drew Dowdell]

They have something more planned for Kappa. That move is about capacity.

And PCS keeps hinting about the Volt, since Wilmington is a lower capacity plant.... maybe it goes there.

[Newbiewar]

hrmm....

this will be interesting...

does anyone know what these plants produce?

[Oracle of Delphi]

Think about this, something made me move from there to where I am now (true I got a promotion, but that's not the only reason). So is the plant closing or is something else going on? Time will tell, it ain't over till the fat lady sings, as many of the Wilmington employees know 1st hand. :AH-HA_wink:

[ZL-1]

They have something more planned for Kappa. That move is about capacity.

I think you're right.

How about Pontiac getting the axe and a 2nd gen Kappa roadster moving to Chevrolet, together with a NG Sky and a mini-XLR for Cadillac? That would require a higher capacity plant. Also, Since Kappa's engineering was very much inspired by the Corvette/XLR platform, why not bring the ng Kappa more in line with the C7 platform? It doesn't have to be a single platform with 'long' ans 'short' versions, but it coould be something close to that.

Finally, there's another benefit to this: with higher gas prices, demand will drift towards smaller cars in general. Having all sports cars built in a single facility makes it easier to adjust the production mix to match market demand.

[hyperv6]

For cost considerations the new Kappa had to be shared with another line. Some here thought the Alpha would share the platform but now it looks like there could be some smaller scaled down variation platform of the Vette shared with Pontiac and Saturn.

Kappa will never be a Chevy unless they slap a Vette name on it. That is not going to happen. One Two seater is enough for Chevy.

This is all about keeping Bowling Green Viable. The nearer they build to 100.000 cars at this plant the better.

2011 is the best time to do this as the C7 and XLR are due for an update around the same time.

Edited October 2, 2007 by hyperv6

[Camino LS6]

They have something more planned for Kappa. That move is about capacity.

And PCS keeps hinting about the Volt, since Wilmington is a lower capacity plant.... maybe it goes there.

Wilmington isn't a lower capacity plant, it is just running at a lower capacity. Much of the plant is unused.

[I hope GMRULES again]

Its running at about 20% capacity you would think they would want to close it sooner,why wait another 4 years. it shouldn't be that hard to switch Kappa to Bowling Green.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Its running at about 20% capacity you would think they would want to close it sooner,why wait another 4 years. it shouldn't be that hard to switch Kappa to Bowling Green.

Its running at about 20% capacity you would think they would want to close it sooner,why wait another 4 years. it shouldn't be that hard to switch Kappa to Bowling Green.

Closed? Who said anything about closing it. Just because a product hasn't been identified, doesn't mean it's closing. Perhaps there is something going to that plant that hasn't been identified because it still being studied, or perhaps Wilmington is being held in reserve as an overflow plant for another model, should that model's sales take off, that is a wait and see game GM plays and a smart strategy.

You're much to early in pronouncing the patient dead, doctor. If the plant were going to close an announcement like that would happen around the end of 2009 or the beginning of 2010.

There is also a message in the fact that they didn't close it now, as you stated, why wait? There must be a reason, huh? You need to be able to read between the lines of what's being said and what's being done at GM. I've had 18 years learning GM speak. I'm sure you'll catch on eventually!

Edited October 1, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[thegriffon]

The UAW agreement includes a moratorium on plant closings (except those already identified) until 2012. The G6 stays at Orion until 2013, so it could be closed then, but that will be under a new agreement yet to be negotiated, and any new product is too far out for either planning or union commitments. Wilmington however would be idled before then if there is no new product, so t seems they will do something, even if they haven't decided what.

[thegriffon]

Someone has been watching:

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...REG/71001010/-1

[Camino LS6]

Subscription required to view the page.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Subscription required to view the page.

Allow me! :AH-HA_wink:

Two GM plants are left without long-term products

Orion Township, Mich., and Wilmington, Del., will wait

David Barkholz

and Jamie LaReau

Automotive News

October 1, 2007 - 4:14 pm ET

Mike Dunn isn’t worried that General Motors hasn’t spelled out plans for new vehicles for its Orion Township, Mich., assembly plant after 2013.

Dunn, chairman of UAW Local 5960 representing plant workers, says the local is working to get a vehicle after production of the Pontiac G6 car ends in 2013.

“We feel confident that in the next four years we’ll get something that carries us past 2014,” Dunn says. The local represents about 2,700 workers.

The Orion Township plant and GM’s assembly plant in Wilmington, Del., did not have new vehicles designated for them as part of broad job guarantees in GM’s tentative new master contract with the UAW.

About 73,000 GM hourly workers will be voting on contract ratification through Oct. 10.

No roadster replacement

While most GM assembly plants had specific new-vehicle programs assigned to them, Wilmington does not have replacements for the Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky and Opel GT roadsters after 2011.

The contract says the next generation of Solstice and Sky will be built at Bowling Green, Ky., where the Chevrolet Corvette and Cadillac XLR now are assembled. UAW Local 2164 President Eldon Renaud confirms that the Solstice and Sky will be built in 2012 by the 960 hourly workers at the plant. A call to the UAW local in Wilmington was not returned.

The tentative contract yielded several notable GM plans for its U.S. plants.

In 2011, GM plans to build two body styles of the new Alpha vehicle in Lordstown, Ohio. GM has not unveiled a concept version of the vehicle, said a source familiar with the program.

‘Like a BMW used to be’

“It’s an all-new architecture that does not exist in the portfolio now,” the source said. “It is in the compact area but bigger than the Gamma. It’s more like a small entry-level vehicle that would be more luxury-inclined, like a BMW used to be.”

Some other future commitments of note:

Arlington, Texas — The GMT 900 truck and SUV continue until 2012; C3XX full-sized truck and SUV replacement begin in 2013.

Detroit-Hamtramck, Mich. — The Buick Lucerne and Cadillac DTS continue until 2010; Global Delta MPV7 begins in 2009; Global Delta Volt begins in 2010; Global Epsilon Chevrolet begins in 2012.

Fairfax, Kansas City, Kan. — The Chevrolet Malibu and Saturn Aura continue until 2011; Global Epsilon Buick and Saturn begin in 2009; Chevrolet large four-door notchback begins in 2010.

Flint, Mich. — GMT 900 full-sized truck and heavy-duty commercial cab continue until 2011; GMT 900 medium-duty truck continues until 2008; C3XX full-sized truck and heavy-duty commercial cab begin in 2012.

Lansing/Delta Township, Mich. — GMC, Saturn and Buick Lambda vehicles continue until 2011; GMC, Saturn and Buick Lambda replacement vehicles begin in 2012; Chevrolet Lambda vehicle begins in 2011.

Lansing, Mich., Grand River — The Cadillac CTS, STS and SRX continue through 2009; CTS wagon and coupe begin in 2009; Zeta vehicles (two styles) begin in 2011.

Spring Hill, Tenn. — Chevrolet Lambda continues through 2012; Theta Epsilon SUV begins in 2011; next-generation Chevrolet Lambda replacement product is dependent on demand and business beyond 2012.

Wentzville, Mo. — Chevrolet and GMC large vans continue through the product life cycle, beyond 2012; next-generation Chevrolet and GMC large vans replace current vehicles depending on demand and business case beyond 2012.

[thegriffon]

Subscription required to view the page.

You just have to register, and of course, not even that if/when the article is published by AutoWeek.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Closed? Who said anything about closing it. Just because a product hasn't been identified, doesn't mean it's closing. Perhaps there is something going to that plant that hasn't been identified because it still being studied, or perhaps Wilmington is being held in reserve as an overflow plant for another model, should that model's sales take off, that is a wait and see game GM plays and a smart strategy.

You're much to early in pronouncing the patient dead, doctor. If the plant were going to close an announcement like that would happen around the end of 2009 or the beginning of 2010.

There is also a message in the fact that they didn't close it now, as you stated, why wait? There must be a reason, huh? You need to be able to read between the lines of what's being said and what's being done at GM. I've had 18 years learning GM speak. I'm sure you'll catch on eventually!

I'll bite and throw a couple of things out there...

1) Kappa is so small that it isn't even phasing Wilmington capacity-wise. So, the move to put Kappa at Bowling Green is as much a benefit to that facility as it is to the Corvette program. I think GM wants Kappa out of the way in case something BIG catches on and they need to ratchet up production quickly and exponentially. Couple that with ALL of the rumors indicating that the Volt would be built there until the UAW leak and we might have a winner.

The Volt will begin 'limited' production at D-Hamtramck and Wilmington will be in limbo based on Volt demand. IF the Volt takes off, Kappa is out the door in a year and Wilmington can tool up for the Volt just like the rumors said. IF the Volt runs out of gas, then Wilmington will not have to be idled and can instead be sent to the crusher.

2) THE WILD CARD... What about the Chevy triplets from New York? They certainly have huge sales potential if gas prices cause them to 'take off' But I don't think this is likely to be the case for a few reasons. 1) I don't ever see these cars selling in HUGE numbers here 2) We were slotted to only receive one of the three IF we even get that 3) I'm pretty sure it would be impossible for GM to profit off of UAW produced micro-cars. It would make much more financial sesne to import them from somewhere like Mexico (Just like the next Cobalt)

[Oracle of Delphi]

I'll bite and throw a couple of things out there...

1) Kappa is so small that it isn't even phasing Wilmington capacity-wise. So, the move to put Kappa at Bowling Green is as much a benefit to that facility as it is to the Corvette program. I think GM wants Kappa out of the way in case something BIG catches on and they need to ratchet up production quickly and exponentially. Couple that with ALL of the rumors indicating that the Volt would be built there until the UAW leak and we might have a winner.

The Volt will begin 'limited' production at D-Hamtramck and Wilmington will be in limbo based on Volt demand. IF the Volt takes off, Kappa is out the door in a year and Wilmington can tool up for the Volt just like the rumors said. IF the Volt runs out of gas, then Wilmington will not have to be idled and can instead be sent to the crusher.

2) THE WILD CARD... What about the Chevy triplets from New York? They certainly have huge sales potential if gas prices cause them to 'take off' But I don't think this is likely to be the case for a few reasons. 1) I don't ever see these cars selling in HUGE numbers here 2) We were slotted to only receive one of the three IF we even get that 3) I'm pretty sure it would be impossible for GM to profit off of UAW produced micro-cars. It would make much more financial sesne to import them from somewhere like Mexico (Just like the next Cobalt)

And don't forget the remote possibility that the North American built Zetas take off? Wouldn't that be ironic, at least for me! Nahhhhhhhh! I shook the GM Magic Eightball, it said, Ask me again later!

[ZL-1]

I shook the GM Magic Eightball, it said, Ask me again later!

Aha! So that's what your clock (a.k.a. "Bob") really is! Edited October 2, 2007 by ZL-1

[91z4me]

I am thinking Willmington could end up as a quasi experimental plant. Think about it they set up the Kappa tooling SUPER quick and it went off without a hitch. What if they used Willmington to develop/improve build techniques and produce different cars than normal, like make it an E-flex plant that makes E-flex cars for the whole world! Or just use it to start initial production of high publicity programs so the large volume plant can get up and running and give the programs a jump start that other companies don't have.

[longtooth]

Think about this, something made me move from there to where I am now (true I got a promotion, but that's not the only reason). So is the plant closing or is something else going on? Time will tell, it ain't over till the fat lady sings, as many of the Wilmington employees know 1st hand. :AH-HA_wink:

As Wilmington currently boasts a very cosmopolitan workforce (from within GM and from all over) don't expect unanimity in the opinion as to whether folks even want the plant to stay open. BTW, did you know that if it were not for "fat ladies", operas would never end? Lots of "bad blood" there which could only be neutralized by an infusion of new blood by way of a comprehensive big-bucks (to really light a fire under those fence sitters) buy-out strategy. So, you're employed there too, "S"?

-'tooth

Edited October 3, 2007 by longtooth

[poly]

Wilmington News Journal finally picked up the news:

GM plans to move assembly from Del.

Production of Solstice, Sky would shift to Ky. in 2012

By GARY HABER, The News Journal

Posted Tuesday, October 2, 2007

General Motors Corp. will move production of its Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters from its Delaware plant to its facility in Bowling Green, Ky., in 2012, under a tentative contract agreement the company has reached with the United Auto Workers.

"Pontiac Solstice & Saturn Sky continue through the life of this agreement and through the product lifecycle -- (2011)," the agreement said, referring to production at GM's Boxwood Road assembly plant. "No future product allocation has been identified beyond the life of the current agreement."

"The next generation of the current product will be allocated to the Bowling Green assembly plant -- (2012)," according to the proposed labor pact that GM's 74,000 hourly workers will vote on this week.

If the plant near Newport, which employs about 1,500, were to close, it would be a second serious blow to Delaware's auto industry, already bracing for the closure of Chrysler's Newark assembly plant in 2009 .

Delaware economic development officials on Monday were quick to point out that having no new products scheduled for GM's Boxwood Road plant beyond 2012 doesn't mean the facility is in danger of closing, and a lot of things could change in the next five years.

"I think the fact that Wilmington's not on the closure list gives us time to work with GM officials to get another vehicle here," said Judy McKinney-Cherry, director of the Delaware Economic Development Office. "It's much better news than [the plant] being closed."

The agreement, hammered out by GM and the United Auto Workers last week after a two-day strike, gives the automaker the right to close an engine plant in Livonia, Mich., outside Detroit, and close or sell a stamping plant in Indianapolis.

The Wilmington plant is one of two plants for which GM has announced no vehicles or products scheduled for production after the agreement expires in 2011.The other is GM's plant in Orion Township, Mich., which has no production plans after 2013. The plant, outside Detroit, makes the Pontiac G6 sedan.

"We hope Wilmington gets another product, because they've always done a good job," said Eldon Renaud, president of UAW Local 2164 in Bowling Green.

Renaud was one of several presidents of UAW locals at a union meeting on Friday evening at which details of the proposed contract were released.

Dan Flores, a GM spokesman, would not address the company's plans for the Wilmington plant.

"We're not commenting on any future, potential product plans for any of our plants," Flores said.

David Myers, president of UAW Local 435, which represents workers at GM's Wilmington plant, did not return a call seeking comment.

James Wolfe, president of the Delaware State Chamber of Commerce, said the Wilmington plant's "great work force" and the good relationship at the plant between union and management are reasons why GM is likely to find vehicles to build there to replace the Solstice and Sky.

"They're building an outstanding product that has gotten a lot of accolades," said Wolfe, a former manager of Chrysler's Newark assembly plant. "Those are key factors in deciding whether a new product would go in there."

"They're not going to tip their hand on a low-volume plant," he said. "They didn't come out and say the plant would close, and that's significant."

Wolfe noted that the Newark plant was scheduled to close in 1997, but Chrysler instead decided to start producing the Dodge Durango sport utility vehicle there instead.

"You're talking five years, and a lot can happen in five years," he said.

Kate Bailey, a spokeswoman for Gov. Ruth Ann Minner, said Minner met with GM officials twice earlier this year to talk about the plant and that conversations between the state and the automaker are ongoing. GM hasn't told the state that it plans to move production of the Solstice and Sky to Kentucky, Bailey said.

Information from the Associated Press was used in this article. Contact Gary Haber at 324-2878 or [email protected].

GM PLANT

Scenarios for the General Motors production plant near Newport:

• GM finds another model or models to produce at the plant.

• The plant, because of its East Coast location, becomes a center for exporting cars to Europe.

• It is converted into a plant that makes transmissions or other auto parts.

• GM shuts down the plant or sells it

[ZL-1]

maybe wilmington will end up producing the g8

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

• The plant, because of its East Coast location, becomes a center for exporting cars to Europe.

More ammo for the Volt argument...

Didn't GM say that they wanted to build around 500,000 Volts eventually? I could see that happening, especially if Wilmington is used as an export site. Not to mention, I'm sure the Volt (which will no doubt be an image car and very 'in demand' piece) could be sold for a large enough premium outside of the US to make GM a profit.