First shots of the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V

[DetroitWonk]

Caught road testing in metro Detroit:

http://jalopnik.com/cars/new-cars/2009-cad...ts+v-305315.php

Ray

[jbartley]

zexy!

[smk4565]

How loud and unrefined will a supercharged pushrod be? This is like a 3800 Series III Supercharged on steroids. BMW is working on a twin turbo V10 and 8 speed transmission, the M5 will still beat this car, the M3 could probably beat it on a race track due to the massive weight advantage. Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod. Or with the Mercedes AMG cars or Audi V10s.

[Oracle of Delphi]

My new car in 2010. :AH-HA_wink:

[Flybrian]

How loud and unrefined will a supercharged pushrod be? This is like a 3800 Series III Supercharged on steroids. BMW is working on a twin turbo V10 and 8 speed transmission, the M5 will still beat this car, the M3 could probably beat it on a race track due to the massive weight advantage. Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod. Or with the Mercedes AMG cars or Audi V10s.

Its obvious from your comments that you haven't been around a CTS-V.

[FAPTurbo]

How loud and unrefined will a supercharged pushrod be? This is like a 3800 Series III Supercharged on steroids. BMW is working on a twin turbo V10 and 8 speed transmission, the M5 will still beat this car, the M3 could probably beat it on a race track due to the massive weight advantage. Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod. Or with the Mercedes AMG cars or Audi V10s.

That just made me laugh.

[balthazar]

>>"Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod."<<

Ahh, another appearance by Mr. TenthofaSecond. Let's see if your theory holds any water.

C&D, 3/2004:

"...quicker than the M3 to 100 and 140 mph..."

"...trap speed was 107 mph compared to 106 for the m3 and m5"

"...the Cadillac's best lap -- 1:25:35 @ 74.7 mph)-- edged the m5 by 0.138. And there was no doubt... that there was another second or so that we were unable to explore." The CTS-V had a front tire pressure issue, even tho it out-skidpadded both bmws. M3 ran a 1:24:47 @ 75.4 mph.

Clearly, Cadillac has ALREADY handily competed with BMW "with a pushrod".

You will ignore this, of course.

[Drew Dowdell]

So THIS is why Chris was doing 133mph the other day....

[cletus8269]

i thought that was the whole point of having a supercharged pushrod v8.. to be loud and unrefined. i know i would want to hear that beast. that way when you go flyin past the local geezers they throw up their fist and scream dern fool kids! course come to think of it, since this is a caddy it may be the import high school kids saying "why old people gotta ruin our fun" as a 60 yr old in a cts-v owns them at a light.

[Flybrian]

Even my DOHC Aurora emits a healthy growl under heavy throttle. I don't want to own a car that doesn't sound powerful, nor do I want one that sounds like a broken Casio synthesizer (FX35). I remember testing a 2004 LS430 once at CarMax when I was getting my Olds appraised. Sure, it was fast 0-60, but I couldn't hear a shred of evidence that anything under the hood was motivating it to those speeds; could've been magnets or an invisible towline for all I could hear. Why would I want a car like that? Why would anyone?

[pow]

I hope there's a grille available that's not made from chicken wire. Other than that, it sounds like a very promising sports sedan.

[Chris_Doane]

So THIS is why Chris was doing 133mph the other day....

Nah I shot the CTSv before I even had the Audi.

[Intrepidation]

I want to hear the V8...there is nothing more intoxicating than the rumble of one....and nothing that sounds better.

[Nick]

How are these in any manner the "first shots" of the CTS-V?

[ZL-1]

My new car in 2010. :AH-HA_wink:

I thought you wanted a CTS-D

[momolos]

Am I the only one that likes the standard front grille rather than the CTS-V one?

I know that I am nit picking but that grille is tiny.

Just my opinion.

[z28luvr01]

How loud and unrefined will a supercharged pushrod be? This is like a 3800 Series III Supercharged on steroids. BMW is working on a twin turbo V10 and 8 speed transmission, the M5 will still beat this car, the M3 could probably beat it on a race track due to the massive weight advantage. Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod. Or with the Mercedes AMG cars or Audi V10s.

Sorry to be so crass, but why don't you pour yourself a shot?

[CaddyXLR-V]

While I support Cadillac becoming more European in some ways(smaller size, stiffer handling, no more DTS's), I don't want Cadillac to become European. Meaning, the engine is perfect for this car.

American V8 rumble, supercharger whine.... this is a luxury car with attitude. The way a Cadillac should be.

[04monteintimidator]

anyone else notice the huge, goofy grin on the driver's face?

just ads merit to the new CTS commercial tag line "when you turn your car on... does it return the favor?" which by the way... is my favorite car commercial ever

[siegen]

The CTS-V had a front tire pressure issue

I take it magazine reviews don't know how to inflate a tire? :AH-HA_wink:

[Drew Dowdell]

I thought you wanted a CTS-D

That's me.

[bcs296]

How loud and unrefined will a supercharged pushrod be? This is like a 3800 Series III Supercharged on steroids. BMW is working on a twin turbo V10 and 8 speed transmission, the M5 will still beat this car, the M3 could probably beat it on a race track due to the massive weight advantage. Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod. Or with the Mercedes AMG cars or Audi V10s.

You're an idiot. Go home.

[Drew Dowdell]

I take it magazine reviews don't know how to inflate a tire? :AH-HA_wink:

Considering some of the reviews we've read I don't think we can trust car reviewers with anything more dangerous than a rubber eraser.

[Drew Dowdell]

How loud and unrefined will a supercharged pushrod be? This is like a 3800 Series III Supercharged on steroids. BMW is working on a twin turbo V10 and 8 speed transmission, the M5 will still beat this car, the M3 could probably beat it on a race track due to the massive weight advantage. Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod. Or with the Mercedes AMG cars or Audi V10s.

I own both a DOHC V6 and a pushrod V8. Both seems equally smooth. The 5.3 in the Avalanche is actually substantially quieter and smoother than the 3.6 in the CTS at idle. Besides, the CTS-V going to be a large displacement torque monster with a supercharger, what could be more American than that?

The current CTS-V was already so close to BMW in terms of performance that differences were usually relegated to driver error.

[pow]

How loud and unrefined will a supercharged pushrod be? This is like a 3800 Series III Supercharged on steroids. BMW is working on a twin turbo V10 and 8 speed transmission, the M5 will still beat this car, the M3 could probably beat it on a race track due to the massive weight advantage. Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod. Or with the Mercedes AMG cars or Audi V10s.

Clearly you haven't heard the decimating thunder of the AMG 6.3 or the diesely direct-injection cold idle clatter of the M5 V10 (which then turns into a hi-rev snort).

The old AMG supercharged 5.5 made some of the greatest noises ever. Even from idle it a had a jet-engine wail and a satisfying low-pitched rumble.

[Drew Dowdell]

How loud and unrefined will a supercharged pushrod be? This is like a 3800 Series III Supercharged on steroids. BMW is working on a twin turbo V10 and 8 speed transmission, the M5 will still beat this car, the M3 could probably beat it on a race track due to the massive weight advantage. Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod. Or with the Mercedes AMG cars or Audi V10s.

BTW, weight advantage of the '08 335i auto v. 08 CTS - Di Auto is 200lbs in the 3-series favor.

The 535i is only 100lbs lighter than the '08 CTS-V, however the M5 is 300lbs heavier than it's 535i cousin. The '07 CTS-V is 300lbs heavier than the '07 CTS 3.6.

I wonder how much the BMW V10 will weigh.

The LS engine is very light for it's size. You really think BMW is going to get more than 500hp out of the M3? Cadillac is likely to be in the 525hp range.

There is no "massive" weight advantage for BMW so stop pulling fake information out of your ass.

[gm4life]

That sucker is sweet!

[gm4life]

I think a supercharged OHV V8 is perfect for such a unique raw American car. You have to offer an alternative to an AMG or M car.

[smk4565]

>>"Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod."<<

Ahh, another appearance by Mr. TenthofaSecond. Let's see if your theory holds any water.

C&D, 3/2004:

"...quicker than the M3 to 100 and 140 mph..."

"...trap speed was 107 mph compared to 106 for the m3 and m5"

"...the Cadillac's best lap -- 1:25:35 @ 74.7 mph)-- edged the m5 by 0.138. And there was no doubt... that there was another second or so that we were unable to explore." The CTS-V had a front tire pressure issue, even tho it out-skidpadded both bmws. M3 ran a 1:24:47 @ 75.4 mph.

Clearly, Cadillac has ALREADY handily competed with BMW "with a pushrod".

You will ignore this, of course.

But how many did they sell? And why is BMW still the gold standard of sport sedans?

The M3 they claim is 3500 pounds, although I read some estimates closer to 3700, the CTS is in the 4000+ range, if the M3 is really 3500, it has a big advantage. This is the same reason the Corvette has an advantage over Aston Martin and Mercedes SL.

Every luxury brand is chasing BMW, every car magazine compares other cars to BMW. The day Lexus and Mercedes are saying, "we need to build a car as good as Cadillac" and buying Cadillacs to take them apart to copy them, is the day Cadillac is where they need to be. Cadillac should do a 5.6 liter V12 and perhaps turbo it for the CTS-V that would get attention. Although it might throw weight balance off, in which case a twin turbo DOHC V8 is the way to go.

Edited October 2, 2007 by smk4565

[Newbiewar]

How loud and unrefined will a supercharged pushrod be? This is like a 3800 Series III Supercharged on steroids. BMW is working on a twin turbo V10 and 8 speed transmission, the M5 will still beat this car, the M3 could probably beat it on a race track due to the massive weight advantage. Can't compete with BMW with a pushrod. Or with the Mercedes AMG cars or Audi V10s.

A CTS-v out performed by the likes of BMW?

not likely...even my LS1 f-body shut every M3 i've ever seen down... and thats only a lowsey 325 hp...

we arent talking 500 hp... or maybe some 650 pipe dream

BMW's are overweight...

Pushrods have an unpresidented amount of low end power, thus allowing it to take full advantage, of less gears...

for example... my LT1, is faster in an 4 speed auto, then an 6 speed manaul transmission....

when you've got a low torque high reving motor is when you need "8" gears...

My best friend has a SL55 496hp, stock, and his 70 Chevelle (stock) 475hp is almost faster... technology hasnt changed... and Pushrods still dominate...

The Corvette make this a perfect example...

[CaddyXLR-V]

A CTS-v out performed by the likes of BMW?

not likely...even my LS1 f-body shut every M3 i've ever seen down... and thats only a lowsey 325 hp...

we arent talking 500 hp... or maybe some 650 pipe dream

BMW's are overweight...

Pushrods have an unpresidented amount of low end power, thus allowing it to take full advantage, of less gears...

for example... my LT1, is faster in an 4 speed auto, then an 6 speed manaul transmission....

when you've got a low torque high reving motor is when you need "8" gears...

My best friend has a SL55 496hp, stock, and his 70 Chevelle (stock) 475hp is almost faster... technology hasnt changed... and Pushrods still dominate...

The Corvette make this a perfect example...

To be fair, the Chevelle is almost 1000lbs lighter than the Mercedes

[ZL-1]

That's me.

CTS, CTS-D, CTS-V... So many letters... Confusing...

[Intrepidation]

But how many did they sell? And why is BMW still the gold standard of sport sedans?

The M3 they claim is 3500 pounds, although I read some estimates closer to 3700, the CTS is in the 4000+ range, if the M3 is really 3500, it has a big advantage. This is the same reason the Corvette has an advantage over Aston Martin and Mercedes SL.

Every luxury brand is chasing BMW, every car magazine compares other cars to BMW. The day Lexus and Mercedes are saying, "we need to build a car as good as Cadillac" and buying Cadillacs to take them apart to copy them, is the day Cadillac is where they need to be. Cadillac should do a 5.6 liter V12 and perhaps turbo it for the CTS-V that would get attention. Although it might throw weight balance off, in which case a twin turbo DOHC V8 is the way to go.

Way to ignore what balthazar said as he predicted...of course that's expected for you to change topic and not acknowledge that you were wrong.

If Cadillac were trying to emulate BMW, the interior of the CTS would be ugly and spartan, and the exterior would be a mess. Oh, and overall reliability would go down the drain.

[Drew Dowdell]

But how many did they sell? And why is BMW still the gold standard of sport sedans?

The M3 they claim is 3500 pounds, although I read some estimates closer to 3700, the CTS is in the 4000+ range, if the M3 is really 3500, it has a big advantage. This is the same reason the Corvette has an advantage over Aston Martin and Mercedes SL.

Every luxury brand is chasing BMW, every car magazine compares other cars to BMW. The day Lexus and Mercedes are saying, "we need to build a car as good as Cadillac" and buying Cadillacs to take them apart to copy them, is the day Cadillac is where they need to be. Cadillac should do a 5.6 liter V12 and perhaps turbo it for the CTS-V that would get attention. Although it might throw weight balance off, in which case a twin turbo DOHC V8 is the way to go.

The question isn't how many CTS-Vs did they sell, the question is how many CTS-Vs did they build? CTS-V has always been limited to a certain number built per year.

A 5.6 liter V12? That works out to .46 liters per cylinder. Do you just make this &#036;h&#33; up randomly? Cadillac isn't building indy cars. Something that these large displacement V8s give is great low end torque. They already can't fit the 4.6 litre northstar in the CTS, yet you want to throw twin turbos on it?

[Z-06]

The question isn't how many CTS-Vs did they sell, the question is how many CTS-Vs did they build? CTS-V has always been limited to a certain number built per year.

A 5.6 liter V12? That works out to .46 liters per cylinder. Do you just make this &#036;h&#33; up randomly? Cadillac isn't building indy cars. Something that these large displacement V8s give is great low end torque. They already can't fit the 4.6 litre northstar in the CTS, yet you want to throw twin turbos on it?

Absolutely, Cadillac was limited by numbers. They never made it a full fledge production car like the M's. That is why the collector magazine stated that CTS-V will be a future collectible, especially in the 5.7l format they had in 2004, 2005 and yes it was a OHV, PUSH ROD.

I know a mechanic from the racing company in Daytona, who run both DOHC engines and PUSHRODS in the 24-hours Rolex series, and he says that those pushrods are one hell of a machines as they last longer than the DOHC.

5.6l V-12 TT, SMK**** are you looking for a $100,000 engine with all the goodies in it?

[smk4565]

The question isn't how many CTS-Vs did they sell, the question is how many CTS-Vs did they build? CTS-V has always been limited to a certain number built per year.

A 5.6 liter V12? That works out to .46 liters per cylinder. Do you just make this &#036;h&#33; up randomly? Cadillac isn't building indy cars. Something that these large displacement V8s give is great low end torque. They already can't fit the 4.6 litre northstar in the CTS, yet you want to throw twin turbos on it?

The old CTS couldn't fit a Northstar, I think this one was made to be able to, plus the Northstar is 15 years old and too big, they should be able to get dimensions down with the Ultra V8. Even the little M3 fits a V8 under the hood, the M5 and RS6 no bigger than a CTS and fit a V10. If they can make it work, Cadillac can too.

Mercedes has a 5.5 liter V12, it has 612 lb-ft of torque at 1800-3500 rpm. The Z06 has 470 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm, so where is the pushrod low end advantage? The 6.0 liter's peak torque is 4400 rpm.

I picked 5.6 liter, because GM has a 2.8 liter V6, if they doubled that they get 5.6. Turbo charging it might get too expensive, and it probably won't fit in the CTS, but in an STS sized car they should be able to make it fit.

I just hope the Ultra V8 is around 4.8 liters and makes 380 hp, then with a twin turbo they can get near 500, and that can be the new V-series engine. Cadillac would be so much better off with an engine like that.

[AAS]

...

Mercedes has a 5.5 liter V12, it has 612 lb-ft of torque at 1800-3500 rpm. The Z06 has 470 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm, so where is the pushrod low end advantage? The 6.0 liter's peak torque is 4400 rpm.

..

You just compared a V12 to a V8?!? I wonder if 4 extra cylinders have anything to do with increased low-end torque?

[cletus8269]

Mercedes has a 5.5 liter V12, it has 612 lb-ft of torque at 1800-3500 rpm. The Z06 has 470 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm, so where is the pushrod low end advantage? The 6.0 liter's peak torque is 4400 rpm.

I picked 5.6 liter, because GM has a 2.8 liter V6, if they doubled that they get 5.6.

1 - of course its going to make more torque, it has more mules pulling the wagon than the zo6 if you will. while we are at it why dont we debate the benifits over a 2.2 turbo and a 6.0 turbo from lingenfelter... thats a short conversation too.

2 - does it really work that way? didnt know you could bore and stroke a motor out that far and still have reliabilty and performance at the same time. im being honest, not sarcastic here i really didnt know ( but i dont actually think its that easy or i would have a 7.0 in my colorado by now)

[Drew Dowdell]

2 - does it really work that way? didnt know you could bore and stroke a motor out that far and still have reliabilty and performance at the same time. im being honest, not sarcastic here i really didnt know ( but i dont actually think its that easy or i would have a 7.0 in my colorado by now)

I think he is suggesting putting two 2.8 litres end to end.

[CaddyXLR-V]

The old CTS couldn't fit a Northstar, I think this one was made to be able to, plus the Northstar is 15 years old and too big, they should be able to get dimensions down with the Ultra V8. Even the little M3 fits a V8 under the hood, the M5 and RS6 no bigger than a CTS and fit a V10. If they can make it work, Cadillac can too.

Mercedes has a 5.5 liter V12, it has 612 lb-ft of torque at 1800-3500 rpm. The Z06 has 470 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm, so where is the pushrod low end advantage? The 6.0 liter's peak torque is 4400 rpm.

I picked 5.6 liter, because GM has a 2.8 liter V6, if they doubled that they get 5.6. Turbo charging it might get too expensive, and it probably won't fit in the CTS, but in an STS sized car they should be able to make it fit.

I just hope the Ultra V8 is around 4.8 liters and makes 380 hp, then with a twin turbo they can get near 500, and that can be the new V-series engine. Cadillac would be so much better off with an engine like that.

Doesn't it also have twin turbos? Or is it a supercharger? Let's compare once the Blue Devil is for sale, shall we? Have you ever driven a GTO with a 6.0L? You understand that peak torque tells you nothing right? It could have 399 at 2800rpm and 400 at 4400rpm, but guess what, that would make the peak torque at 4400rpm. I drive a GTO every day, it is certainly not lacking any torque. Wait, don't you also praise BMW's M engines? Hows the torque on those?

[cletus8269]

I think he is suggesting putting two 2.8 litres end to end.

oh gotcha

[smk4565]

I don't prefer the BMW M engines, they have no torque. BMW's best engine is probably the 3.0 liter twin-turbo I6. But a twin turbo DI V8 is coming too, that should be another winner.

The Mercedes V12 is twin turbo, and only a 3 valve per cylinder SOHC. Ford put two Duratec V6s end to end for Aston Martin, if they can get a 6.0 liter V12 in that little car, Cadillac should be able to fit a 5.6 liter V12 in something. The current CTS doesn't go into a price territory that they could justify a V12, but at some point they have to make a car above entry level. Then they could use that engine and the XLR could use it right now.

If I were them I'd do 3.6 DI V6, 4.6 DI Ultra V8, 5.6 liter V12, and make a turbo or supercharged version of each. Then they need a V6 2-mode hybrid and a diesel V6 to cover the fuel efficiency end. The 8 and 12 cylinder need displacement on demand obviously to try to keep mpg numbers semi respectable.

Cadillac isn't on the radar screens of BMW, Lexus and Mercedes right now, they aren't a world player, sales are dropping with the current product mix, while the other 3 rise. Cadillac needs to shake it up, and make some world class product. They should at least match the 3-series (beating it is probably impossible for anyone), I think the 5-series/E-class segment they can lead with the right car, and they should be able to match the S-Class and LS460 and beat the 7-series, although a new 7-series is coming next year, so maybe it will be the new benchmark, but for now, the S-class is it. The XLR with the right interior and engines should be able to lead that class.

[Flybrian]

Lexus isn't a world player; they're a US market player.

[Drew Dowdell]

Cadillac isn't a world player on the level of BMW yet... but it's not because of their engines.

[Northstar]

Cadillac isn't on the radar screens of BMW, Lexus and Mercedes right now, they aren't a world player, sales are dropping with the current product mix, while the other 3 rise. Cadillac needs to shake it up, and make some world class product. They should at least match the 3-series (beating it is probably impossible for anyone), I think the 5-series/E-class segment they can lead with the right car, and they should be able to match the S-Class and LS460 and beat the 7-series, although a new 7-series is coming next year, so maybe it will be the new benchmark, but for now, the S-class is it. The XLR with the right interior and engines should be able to lead that class.

The new CTS is already selling extremely well. Despite very low supply, it sold 6400 units (more than new C-Class, IS250/350 (by a lot), G35 sedan and coupe COMBINED (and 2600 more than the sedan), 3000 more than the A4/S4, and only 845 less than the 3er sedan! How's that for a first month with limited supply? Almost first in the market! My dealer has only had 2 in so far. One of them lasted 1 day, I'm not sure about the other.

Cadillac Sept 2007 vs Sept 2006: Up 4.9%

BMW Sept 2007 vs Sept 2006: Up 2.8%

MB Sept 2007 vs Sept 2006: Up 13%

Lexus Sept 2007 vs Sept 2006: Up 1.6%

I'd say Cadillac isn't doing too bad.

[K.C.]

It takes time to become a world player, and Cadillac is well on their way to becoming a world player. They have come so far so quickly, that it's only a matter of time. I think the restructuring of the lineup with improve the changes of Cadillac becoming more of a world player with the core products being a Alpha, BTS, Signa CTS, Zeta STS with a halo car at the top of the range and SUV/Crossovers of various sizes sprinkled in for good measure.

I dont think Cadillacs problem is the engines. I think Cadillacs problems are most from a perception standpoint. It takes awhile for people to change the way they think about products, and with Cadillac making huge jumps with each generation, it will not be long before Cadillac is accepted in the same breath at BMW and Mercedes Benz. It took Audi 15-20 years to gain the world class image that they have now. As long as Cadillac continues with good products, they will be continue to change people's perceptions of what an American luxury car is.

[97regalGS]

Absolutely, Cadillac was limited by numbers. They never made it a full fledge production car like the M's. That is why the collector magazine stated that CTS-V will be a future collectible, especially in the 5.7l format they had in 2004, 2005 and yes it was a OHV, PUSH ROD.

I know a mechanic from the racing company in Daytona, who run both DOHC engines and PUSHRODS in the 24-hours Rolex series, and he says that those pushrods are one hell of a machines as they last longer than the DOHC.

5.6l V-12 TT, SMK**** are you looking for a $100,000 engine with all the goodies in it?

have you checked autotrader.com for used CTS-V's and STS-V's? they hold their value like a collander holds water. while that sucks for Cadillac and GM, it is good news for folks that want a screamer of a car but don't want to pay $50k.

[smk4565]

have you checked autotrader.com for used CTS-V's and STS-V's? they hold their value like a collander holds water. while that sucks for Cadillac and GM, it is good news for folks that want a screamer of a car but don't want to pay $50k.

Very funny and true. You can get an 06 STS-V for about 50k, I've even seen $49k and these are for models with 8-13,000 miles, nearly new cars, but $30,000 off original price. The XLR-V is the same, I've seen those for $60-65k for 2006 models, big drop from the 100k sticker price. BMW and Lexus have some unreal ability to hold value, people decent money for them even if they have 100k miles.

I just saw a 2005 STS V8 with 30k miles for $23,000 (originally $55k) in the Cleveland area if anyone is looking for a car. Cadillacs make great used cars because of their low resale value, but they make bad new car buys.

[Drew Dowdell]

have you checked autotrader.com for used CTS-V's and STS-V's? they hold their value like a collander holds water. while that sucks for Cadillac and GM, it is good news for folks that want a screamer of a car but don't want to pay $50k.

Resale is based on perceived value not actual value. The resale for the CTS-V and STS-V is low because they don't have blue and white emblems on their nose... it has nothing to do with the configuration of the engine. <STS-V is DOHC btw>

[Lamar]

It takes time to become a world player, and Cadillac is well on their way to becoming a world player. They have come so far so quickly, that it's only a matter of time. I think the restructuring of the lineup with improve the changes of Cadillac becoming more of a world player with the core products being a Alpha, BTS, Signa CTS, Zeta STS with a halo car at the top of the range and SUV/Crossovers of various sizes sprinkled in for good measure.

I dont think Cadillacs problem is the engines. I think Cadillacs problems are most from a perception standpoint. It takes awhile for people to change the way they think about products, and with Cadillac making huge jumps with each generation, it will not be long before Cadillac is accepted in the same breath at BMW and Mercedes Benz. It took Audi 15-20 years to gain the world class image that they have now. As long as Cadillac continues with good products, they will be continue to change people's perceptions of what an American luxury car is.

I agree with all this.

I just hope that once the BLS comes, they won't compare the CTS to the 3-Series and C-Class anymore, but rather the 5-series and E-class (a hackneyed argument, I know, but it's one that holds validity). Of course, some of that is Cadillac's own doing, and it looks like they're working on making it right.