Spied: '10 Buick LaCrosse

[Tailfin61]

I increased the resolution on my monitor to 400% to see if you can make anything out. It looks to me that the dash is also covered with camoflouge, so there really is no detail to see. At first glance the grill looked similar to the 2005-07 LaX, but what appeared to be the curved top of the grill was the camoflouge cover. So all in all not much to see other than the curve of the window line/greenhouse and that there will actually be a redesigned LaX.

Wasn't there talk of going back to the red/white/blue badging, or was that just for China?

[cire]

The car is disguised too well to really make any judgements. I can't wait to see the production version without the camouflage. If they can give it some of the Enclave's design DNA, then it should be a looker. I hope it really is a product that can help Buick make a big impact on the near luxury market.

I also hope that the LaCrosse name will be history when the new model arrives.

[RBB]

This is the same chassis (EPII) as the Next-Gen Opel Vectra, right? We've seen more of it (from the thread in the Opel forum:)

That should give a better general idea of the dimensions of the Lacrosse/Allure/Regal, if not the actual sheetmetal itself.

-RBB

[smk4565]

This car will probably be just as long as the Malibu, if not a few inches shorter. It's sure to be a wider vehicle. One of the main gripes of the current Epsilon platform is that it's narrow. Remember, this car is based on EPII, so it really isn't related to the new Malibu in any way. The next gen Malibu will share this Next Gen LaX's platform, but that's years away. Here's hoping the do away with the bench (and my true dream is no cloth, either), alloy wheels standard, and the HFV6 making 290HP. While I'm at it, PLEASE BUICK, USE GENUINE WOOD IN THIS CAR. Anything less would be a disservice. This car should be a true ES350 competitor, and that means real materials and a $30k starting part (with the product to justify that).

290 hp in a front drive car is a disaster waiting to happen, they'll be stuck around 260-268 like the Camry, Accord, MKZ, Taurus, etc. My guess would be the same 263 in the base CTS. But I am not convinced Buick will make that the entry level engine, they love cheap pushrods that make 200 hp. I don't think they need to out power the cars I just mentioned, but they should beat them in quietness/smoothness and fuel economy.

Real wood trim is a must, Buick's fake wood is bad and always looks glued on. I have doubts whether Buick will do what they really need to do to make it nice, because I think GM knows people aren't going to spend $30,000 base for a Buick sedan and they are afraid of risk. That is why the LaCrosse and Lucerne sell so many units in the $22-28,000 price range. Same reason no Cadillac sedan has a base price over $47,000, they are afraid.

[ZL-1]

That should give a better general idea of the dimensions of the Lacrosse/Allure/Regal, if not the actual sheetmetal itself.

I believe Vectra/9-3 will be on swb EpII and the others will be on lwb EpII. If the Aura becomes true a clone of the Vectra, then it will be on swb as well instead of the present gen lwb.

[Drew Dowdell]

290 hp in a front drive car is a disaster waiting to happen, they'll be stuck around 260-268 like the Camry, Accord, MKZ, Taurus, etc.

Impala SS, Pontiac GXP, Buick Lacrosse Super, Buick Lucerne Super, Cadillac DTS.

it's not like GM hasn't been doing it since about 1993 or anything.....

[Gizhost]

I can't wait to see this car, when I owned my 98 Regal GS I was very upset when the LaCrosse replaced the Regal. I later started to respect the LaCrosse after seeing them in person but I still thought the Regal GS was the more handsome car and more Buick. I love the LaCrosse Super but the W-body needs to be dropped...I'm very much looking forward to this new LaCrosse and I know GM was talking about bringing the Regal name back and I hope they do. This dimensions of this car looks great. I can't wait for more spy photos!

[smk4565]

Impala SS, Pontiac GXP, Buick Lacrosse Super, Buick Lucerne Super, Cadillac DTS.

it's not like GM hasn't been doing it since about 1993 or anything.....

And all those cars torque steer like crazy, and have 63% of their weight up front. I have an Aurora which isn't as bad as the more powerful V8s in torque steer, but the car is too front heavy and V8s should drive the rear wheels. It is easy to do 300 hp in a front drive car, it just makes no sense. I am buying rear drive next time, it is better.

[titan]

290 hp in a front drive car is a disaster waiting to happen, they'll be stuck around 260-268 like the Camry, Accord, MKZ, Taurus, etc. My guess would be the same 263 in the base CTS. But I am not convinced Buick will make that the entry level engine, they love cheap pushrods that make 200 hp. I don't think they need to out power the cars I just mentioned, but they should beat them in quietness/smoothness and fuel economy.

Real wood trim is a must, Buick's fake wood is bad and always looks glued on. I have doubts whether Buick will do what they really need to do to make it nice, because I think GM knows people aren't going to spend $30,000 base for a Buick sedan and they are afraid of risk. That is why the LaCrosse and Lucerne sell so many units in the $22-28,000 price range. Same reason no Cadillac sedan has a base price over $47,000, they are afraid.

That's BS. GM's had 300HP FWD cars for years now. As Oldsmoboi said, look at the Impala SS, Pontiac GXP, Buick Lacrosse Super, Buick Lucerne Super, and Cadillac DTS. And that was done with outdated platforms that are way older, less rigid, and less sophisticated than the upcoming EPII; and, those examples are with more engine (larger displacement at 5.3L, and more cylinders at eight). So, GM can definitely have a 290HP LaX/Regal trumps that ES350 handily in the HP dept. Second, I don't care what has happened in the last 20 years to the brand; Buick can not afford to continue to bring half-ass product to market, price and package wrong, and then wonder why it's not attracting younger, more affluent buyers and is not seen as a Lexus alternative. Look at the revised pecking order at GM; Caddy's at the top, and Buick is right under it. The Saturn... There is definitely room for an all out luxury and performance divison (Caddy), and a quiet, refined, powerful, value-based luxury (Buick). It's no secret that the ES350 (or the RX350, Highlander, or Sienna for that matter) shares it's platform with the Camry. But it continues to be Lexus' top seller; why? Because the exterior and interior is completely unique to the ES350, and because the materials used are of the same quality as those found in the rest of the Lexus lineup. Buick can do the same! The next gen LaX has the potential to be a real show stopper, and a real ES350 Killer. That means beating the ES on all fronts, and offering it to the customer at a price a few thousand less the ES350. I'd have the CXL start at $29K, and come with the 3.6L (250HP), 6 disc changer, leather, power front seats, a sun roof, and 17in. as standard. Then, the CXS with the 3.6L (250HP) as standard, coming with leather seats, sunroof, 18in alloys, HIDs, seat memory, heated cooled seats, dual chrome tipped exhaust, 6 disc changer, et. all) for around $31K, and leave just a few options (Navi, stereo upgrade, chrome wheels, Vista Roof). Then, have the Super version begin at around $33-34K but come with the 3.6L DI at 295HP, 19in. alloys, HIDs, the upgraded stereo, memory seats, chromed tipped exhaust, heated cooled seats as standard equipment and leave options limited to just a few (Navi, Vista roof, chrome wheels). The CX wouldn't come with options; you'd have to buy it as equipped (which is well equipped) at $29K. That way, Buick can advertise that the price starts there, but the pricing would be as such that the customer is encouraged to look at the past the CXL to the CXS or the Super for the car they'd rather see themselves in.

[sciguy_0504]

Thanks Chris D.!

Enclave influences abound, from the grille and headlights to the taillights and I think it's a very good thing. I am excited to see this as it should be Buick's bread and butter project.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Sweet pics, check the lower bodysides and maybe the rear-very much influenced by the Riviera concept, a clear step in the right direction for Buick. Should be made in Reserve, Super, and maybe Ultra trim levels, all with different grades of the 3.6-liter DOHC HF V-6 and 6-speed automatic transmission. A front split-bench seat could still be offered on Reserve (which hopefully will equal the current CXS; CX/CXL trims would be dropped to ensure Buick's move upscale), but have front buckets elsewhere. Hopefully a 16-17 cubic foot trunk will be here too. Otherwise looks to be another awesome Buick hot on the heels of Enclave.

[carman21]

No way.

First of all, with the new Malibu starting at around 20 and ending in upper 20's, and with the Aura starting around 23 (I think) and ending in upper 20's, I don't think the premium marque should start at 22k. I'd say it should start at around 25/26k. Secondly, no 4-cylinder engine. Thirdly, if in all these years they didn't dump a 5-speed auto in Buicks, or even the Cadillac DTS, what makes you think they'd start doing that now that cheaper cars, (ie Malibu, G6, and Aura) have a 6-speed available, that they wouldn't make that standard?

I see this possible:

CX/CXL 3.6L at around 250hp

CXS 3.6L DI at around 290hp

Super 3.6L DI or 5.3L V8, 300-320hp (and this is pushing the limits of my mind)

Yes, Buick is a premium brand but, not a luxury or prestige brand like Cadillac or Lexus. So, Buick can have a midsizer starting in the low 20s. As well as a compact starting in the high $10s. Think Volkswagen minus the sales failure over the last 10 years.

You make valid points but, FYI

The Malibu starts around $19k and works to $26k

The G6 starts at $17k and work to $27k ($30k for the convrt. )

The Aura starts at $20k and tops out at $25k

So, a Regal from $22k to 31k still leads the pack yet does not approach the CTS' price points until the CXS model.

A perfect compromise of values.

1) the 5spd auto is likely when GM replaces the ancient 4spds. However, if production costs drop I'd expect a 6spd for all models.

2) An I-4 is an insurance policy against a further rise in already high gas prices.

3) I do not want a Super model unless its AWD and turbo.

4) No V-8! Period except for the upcoming Zeta Buick fullsizer.

[thegriffon]

I believe Vectra/9-3 will be on swb EpII and the others will be on lwb EpII. If the Aura becomes true a clone of the Vectra, then it will be on swb as well instead of the present gen lwb.

Note Aura continues until 2012, but a new Saturn EII arrives in '09 with the LaCrosse.

[Paolino]

Yes, Buick is a premium brand but, not a luxury or prestige brand like Cadillac or Lexus. So, Buick can have a midsizer starting in the low 20s. As well as a compact starting in the high $10s. Think Volkswagen minus the sales failure over the last 10 years.

You make valid points but, FYI

The Malibu starts around $19k and works to $26k

The G6 starts at $17k and work to $27k ($30k for the convrt. )

The Aura starts at $20k and tops out at $25k

So, a Regal from $22k to 31k still leads the pack yet does not approach the CTS' price points until the CXS model.

A perfect compromise of values.

1) the 5spd auto is likely when GM replaces the ancient 4spds. However, if production costs drop I'd expect a 6spd for all models.

2) An I-4 is an insurance policy against a further rise in already high gas prices.

3) I do not want a Super model unless its AWD and turbo.

4) No V-8! Period except for the upcoming Zeta Buick fullsizer.

2008 Aura XR:

MSRP: $25,495

Loaded: $27,845

2008 Malibu LTZ V6

MSRP: $26,995

Loaded: $28,120

So, as you can see, your numbers are slightly off. The 2008 Malibu starts at $19,995, not 19. It now tops out at OVER 28K. The next Aura is probably going to jump up a little. Having a 4-cylinder midsize starting in Malibu territory just seems stupid to me. Especially when you still have the G6.

Again, why are they going to put a 5-speed auto in when all the competition uses 6-speeds, and GM already has a 6-speed ready that they waited an eon to release?

[thegriffon]

Yes, Buick is a premium brand but, not a luxury or prestige brand like Cadillac or Lexus. So, Buick can have a midsizer starting in the low 20s. As well as a compact starting in the high $10s. Think Volkswagen minus the sales failure over the last 10 years.

You make valid points but, FYI

The Malibu starts around $19k and works to $26k

The G6 starts at $17k and work to $27k ($30k for the convrt. )

The Aura starts at $20k and tops out at $25k

So, a Regal from $22k to 31k still leads the pack yet does not approach the CTS' price points until the CXS model.

A perfect compromise of values.

1) the 5spd auto is likely when GM replaces the ancient 4spds. However, if production costs drop I'd expect a 6spd for all models.

2) An I-4 is an insurance policy against a further rise in already high gas prices.

3) I do not want a Super model unless its AWD and turbo.

4) No V-8! Period except for the upcoming Zeta Buick fullsizer.

A 4-cyl is unlikely for US-market LaCrosses. BPG dealers will have the G6 (and Alpha?) to cover the economy market. There will be no further 5-speed autos from GM. The new 6-speeds are no costlier than a 5-speed, and only capacity issues will prevent faster roll-out.

[Drew Dowdell]

And all those cars torque steer like crazy, and have 63% of their weight up front. I have an Aurora which isn't as bad as the more powerful V8s in torque steer, but the car is too front heavy and V8s should drive the rear wheels. It is easy to do 300 hp in a front drive car, it just makes no sense. I am buying rear drive next time, it is better.

Most of the reviews seem to disagree with you. They do have torque steer, but it's not unmanageable.

Pontiac GXP

and I can't even find a DTS review that mentions torque steer.... even in the ones that mention the Cimmaron

[smk4565]

Buick will not attract younger buyers because they are Buick. It has a bad image, people under 40 associate Buick with the car their grandparents drove. I agree that they have to go all out or they might as well just close up shop now. I don't see them making it as nice as the worst Lexus, because they'd have to charge $35,000 for it or more. Lexus can build a car for less than it costs Buick to make one. If they are projecting 60,000 CTS sales and that is priced in the $30s, how will they sell 65,000 Buicks if they price it in the $30s?

Regardless of how much horsepower they put in the Regal/LaCrosse, it won't have the image or resale value of Lexus. Cadillac doesn't even have that image yet, how will Buick? This car will be a step below the Lincoln MKZ, and cost in the high $20s to about $32k. Nothing wrong with that, they'll sell some, but no one should be comparing it to Lexus.

[buickguy]

Buick's image is definitely changing for the better. Most people's grandparents I know drive the Toyota Camry, which is now dethroned Buick as the official car of the elderly.

My wife and I are both south of 40 and we have a Lucerne (that rocks) and and Enclave on the way. Buick's average is still high but it is dropping.

Buick just tied Lexus for # in reliability, better than any GM brand.

The new cars in the Buick pipeline are going to be hot, and with Buick's reputation for quality is assures a bright future.

You tend to really dwell on the negative with a strange hatred for Buick...it is kind of sad. Most people don't know a pushrod from a push-up and yet you drone on about that constantly. We get it..you hate Buick.

It would be nice if you could accept the fact Buick is a big part of GM is here to stay and then offer some constructive ideas.

We all post here because we like Buick, but is really weird for someone to post repetitive hate all the time.

[Flybrian]

We all post here because we like Buick, but is really weird, foolish, misinformed, and downright ignorant for someone to post repetitive hate all the time.

Fixed and amen.

For some reason, the ES350 is looked upon as some sort of aspriring, quality piece. It isn't. Frankly, the current LaCrosse is more attractive in CXL/S trims than the dowdy, pucked ES.

Some people just need an attitude adjustment and a reality check that just because you would never buy a Buick doesn't mean others won't.

What's the most popular premium car in China again? Yeah...

[smk4565]

Buick's image is definitely changing for the better. Most people's grandparents I know drive the Toyota Camry, which is now dethroned Buick as the official car of the elderly.

My wife and I are both south of 40 and we have a Lucerne (that rocks) and and Enclave on the way. Buick's average is still high but it is dropping.

Buick just tied Lexus for # in reliability, better than any GM brand.

The new cars in the Buick pipeline are going to be hot, and with Buick's reputation for quality is assures a bright future.

You tend to really dwell on the negative with a strange hatred for Buick...it is kind of sad. Most people don't know a pushrod from a push-up and yet you drone on about that constantly. We get it..you hate Buick.

It would be nice if you could accept the fact Buick is a big part of GM is here to stay and then offer some constructive ideas.

We all post here because we like Buick, but is really weird for someone to post repetitive hate all the time.

Buick's average car buyer age is 67, which has risen from 63 in 2004. The Lucerne and LaCrosse are not reversing the trend they are making it worse. You should trade your Lucerne in on an 03 Aurora, the Aurora is a far better car in every way (which is sad, it was designed 8 years ago). The Camry's average buyer is about 54, Lexus is up in the 50s too. I agree that is becoming the baby boomer car and will be the car of choice for 60+ crowd in a couple years, but Buick still gets older buyers, oldest of any brand still, even with the Enclave.

If they are going to keep Buick and want to make them good, it is simple, and stuff they should have done 10 years ago. W-body and G-body have to go. They need smaller cars! People that are in their 50s with no kids don't need a 200 inch long vehicle, this is why the Camry and ES350 sell so well, midsize sells! Full size is declining fast. 6 speed tranny and DOHC engine standard in every vehicle, hybrid option on every model, no pushrods ever in a Buick. All real wood, no fake, leather standard on all models, no plastic body cladding like the Enclave has, 17 inch alloy wheels standard on all models, no wheel covers. 0% fleet sale. Zero rebates, the Enclave has a $1000 rebate, I thought it was a hot item, why give money away. Every Buick should be 68 dB or less at 70 mph and have a 5/60,000 bumper to bumper warranty. Also abandon all base models, base models flood the market and kill resale values and base model Buicks look horrible. There should be 2 trims per model, both looking the same on the outside. The only change would be a wheel upgrade on the CXS vs the CXL.

To have any chance at a future they have to throw away the past and build stuff unlike anything form the last 25 years. It could take 8 years to get their image just to where Lincoln is today, I don't know if GM can pump money in that long on a brand that sells 200k units a year.

If they do it right, they have a chance to save Buick and win back some of those Toyota buying boomers but, GM hasn't shown the commitment yet and given them the products to do so. Toyota outspends GM on new product development and has far fewer brands and model lines to worry about. GM is in a perpetual catchup mode, they have to break that cycle.

[ZL-1]

Note Aura continues until 2012, but a new Saturn EII arrives in '09 with the LaCrosse.

So, in your opinion, is a conclusion of new Saturn = Vectra clone with Aura staying in the lineup while it sells a dumb one? Or would that imply new Saturn = Vectra clone with different options currently under consideration for the post-2012 Aura? Edited September 29, 2007 by ZL-1

[ehaase]

I am mostly curious about this large 2010 Chevrolet 4 door notchback. Is this going to be a large FWD family car to compete against the Taurus, taking the place of the current Impala, while the Zeta Impala is a more performance car?

[Sixty8panther]

Not bad for a Skylark replacement.

It does look appear to have a good stance, love the new nose theme and I hope it has venit-ports.

[gm4life]

I am liking what I am seeing. Buick can come back. The great American road will belong to Buick.

[thegriffon]

So, in your opinion, is a conclusion of new Saturn = Vectra clone with Aura staying in the lineup while it sells a dumb one? Or would that imply new Saturn = Vectra clone with different options currently under consideration for the post-2012 Aura?

It's far longer than normal for a fleet car, so I suspect the new car will be on the shorter wheelbase (2750 mm?), and nearly identical to the Vectra replacement, while the Aura will be reduced to a high-end V6 models in a higher price range, and may even be exported to Europe to go up against the 607 and Azera.

[ZL-1]

It's far longer than normal for a fleet car, so I suspect the new car will be on the shorter wheelbase (2750 mm?), and nearly identical to the Vectra replacement, while the Aura will be reduced to a high-end V6 models in a higher price range, and may even be exported to Europe to go up against the 607 and Azera.

It'd be interesting if the Opel flagship ended up being an Aura: there's been talk of an Epsilon-based crossover, and there's also the Holden Calais rumour...

One thing's guaranteed: If the Aura makes it here as the Opel flagship instead fo the Calais, PCS will be a happy man

Edited October 1, 2007 by ZL-1

[Chicagoland]

"Buick's image is definitely changing for the better. Most people's grandparents I know drive the Toyota Camry, which is now dethroned Buick as the official car of the elderly. "

It is slowly changing. And the definition of an over 60 y/o person has changed, in fact David Letterman is 60!

I heard the Enclave is getting much younger buyers, so they are getting rid of the W body just in time.

Edited October 3, 2007 by Chicagoland

[Drew Dowdell]

best friend's partner just got a Lucerne V6... he's 38 years old.

Prior to my decision to move to Germany I've seriously considered a Lucerne V8 to replace my CTS. It's not that the CTS isn't a great car, I'm just more into a softer ride.

I'm 28.