Lutz Confirms: More Models for Buick!

[Flybrian]

Look at a 97-2000 Buick used and see what condition the paint is in. They do well in 3 year reliability, but not 10 year.

:rotflmao: God, is there a more baseless argument for your claims here?

[K.C.]

Agreed.

Look at a 97-2000 Buick used and see what condition the paint is in. They do well in 3 year reliability, but not 10 year. Buick says will keep dropping, they serve a purpose for a few more years while their core buyers are alive, but after that they are useless. Obviously Saab should die first in the fewer, but better models plan, but Buick (like Mercury) is on death watch. When they redo the Impala it should be nicer than the Lucerne or Chrysler 300, the Malibu LTZ could have a better interior too.

In hindsight, Oldsmobile was really a blend of what they have been trying to make Buick, Saturn and Pontiac. Olds had some luxury, some performance, and some import fighter ability. Maybe they should have kept them and pumped a lot of money in 1 brand, rather than a little money into 3 brands and dilute resources. Would have given them a better Chevy-Olds-Cadillac hierarchy. Might have failed, but could have worked.

Wow. You know, I think you need to take a job over at Toyota. Their average buyer age continues to rise.

[vonVeezelsnider]

That Chev-Olds-Cadillac Idea isn't all that bad, but Olds ain't coming back so it's moot I guess.

[VenSeattle]

BTW, the so-called "quality" rankings on which Lutz's statement might have been made are also a joke. The old Regals (which supposedly did so well by JD Power standards) loved to cough up their power steering pumps at around 70,000 miles. Nothing of the kind would ever happen at such low mileage and on a large scale with a Lexus or Toyota comparable product. But then again, 70,000 miles is out of JD Power's 3 year long-term durability range (usually 36,000 to 45,000 miles are typically driiven for that period of time).

This is the best it's gonna get. For you cheerleaders here who actually buy new Buicks (population 1), get 'em while you can.

The Regal also did well with Consumer Reports...

Posted 11/3/2003 11:04 PM

Regal leads 'Consumer Reports' reliability list

By Earle Eldridge, USA TODAY

The Buick Regal is the most reliable family sedan, bumping perennial leaders Toyota Camry and Nissan Maxima in Consumer Reports ' latest new vehicle guide, on sale Tuesday...

The results are based on spring survey results from 675,000 readers and subscribers to the magazine's Web site. Reliable vehicles aren't always recommended. They also must perform well in magazine driving tests and score well in crash tests. For instance Regal, a headline car for the preview guide, isn't recommended because Consumer Reports hasn't tested it recently...

Other Detroit models upgraded in reliability and now recommended: Ford's Explorer and Escape SUVs and Lincoln LS luxury sedan; and GM's Buick Park Avenue, Buick Rendezvous and Saturn L300...

***Source: Consumer Reports

Survey, conducted in spring 2003, based on scores for most recent three years' models, provided they didn't change substantially. For details, see Consumer Reports New Car Preview 2004

So, outside of ignorant bias against Buick (because you are supposably in love with Chevrolet), where's your source backing up the claim Buick was/is unreliable?

Honestly, I don't feel alone supporting Buick. I've been to a Buick National meet, and I also know Buick owners who are very much alive and kicking. I still receive compliments on my Park Avenue Ultra, and expect to continue receiving compliments on my next new Buick. Buicks are gaining more attention and recognition every day. Get over using US sales volume as a yard stick for Buick's vitality. It's global. Live with it.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

That Chev-Olds-Cadillac Idea isn't all that bad, but Olds ain't coming back so it's moot I guess.

Agreed. I saw a new 2008 LaCrosse leaving the parking lot at work yesterday. Sadly, I was hoping it was an owner. It was a rental, but I got to see the new grille and front end. It does help the car. Lucerne reminds of of Volkswagen Phaeton. It always did as they both came out around the same time. I know Buick came out ofter it did. I am not getting into the debate, but Buick with the right product can appeal to a different buyer. The Enclave is a start. Buick China has shown the way.

[cmattson]

One as small as the Cobalt, no.

One bigger than the Cobalt but smaller than Regal? Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to have a new Special or Skylark...

That would put you around the SWB Epsilon (think current-gen Malibu). The G6/Aura/Malibu Maxx all use the LWB Epsilon.

Nothing of the kind would ever happen at such low mileage and on a large scale with a Lexus or Toyota comparable product.

Surely you aren't serious about this comment? The '97-'01MY Camry's and a wonderfully unreliable (leaky) power steering pump assembly. Same can be said for the Avalon. A used-car buyer in the northern states considering either one of those should also be aware of the less-than-durable front coil springs and lower-control arms -- they rot like you wouldn't believe. All, in all, it's a fairly expensive endeavor: about $3k. Fortunately for Toyota, these things lasted until about 65k-80k in miles so the really had no recourse w/Toyota. I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

[CaddyXLR-V]

First, I don't hide the fact that I dislike Buick. I hate driving them, and their styling doesn't appeal to me at all. But, I am not their target buyer. I don't think Buick should be killed(even though I personally wouldn't miss the brand). Buick needs to stay to take the sales of the DTS when it is gone. Buick should get a LWB Zeta, while Pontiac gets the SWB Zeta.

I think buick would be fine with 4 models.

Epsilon 2 sedan-get rid of the lacrosse name

LWB Zeta

convertible with a backseat

Enclave

[cmattson]

One more thing: if you are serious about who you are branding Buick to appeal to, then you MUST lose some of the historied nomenclature. 'Buick Super' conveys a very 1950's image - which is fine if you wish to market yourself to 70 yr olds. A 'Grand National' trim-level would've probably resonated more with the crowd GM wants to target for Buick. If you must pull from your heritage, at least use something that gets people's pulse racing. 'Super' is just sooo vanilla. 'Wildcat' would at least raise my eyebrows a bit.

[cire]

One more thing: if you are serious about who you are branding Buick to appeal to, then you MUST lose some of the historied nomenclature. 'Buick Super' conveys a very 1950's image - which is fine if you wish to market yourself to 70 yr olds. A 'Grand National' trim-level would've probably resonated more with the crowd GM wants to target for Buick. If you must pull from your heritage, at least use something that gets people's pulse racing. 'Super' is just sooo vanilla. 'Wildcat' would at least raise my eyebrows a bit.

I agree with you on the "Super" trim name. It sounds outdated and kind of boring. I think they could come up with something that would convey a more exciting and upscale image for their performance trim levels.

As far as model names, Buick has a rich history and should continue to use some of their past model names. Camry, Accord, Corolla, and Civic are historic Japanese model names that are still relevant today due to their companies' determination to redesign and update their vehicles on a timely basis. These names have recognition, value, and loyalty in the marketplace. If Buick makes a commitment to this same ideology, then there is no reason that model names such as Regal, Skylark, Century, LeSabre, Park Avenue, Riviera, Electra, or Invicta couldn't carry the same cachet in the marketplace. It's a shame that many of the models that appear on the most recent J.D. Power 3 year reliability report are no longer currently available at Buick dealerships. This could have been a major marketing coup for Buick.

Whatever Buick decides to name their future products, by no means should they resort to utilizing an alpha-numeric nomenclature for their vehicles.

Edited September 13, 2007 by cire

[97regalGS]

T Type anyone?

[97regalGS]

A few of the people within my company keep insisting that Buick & Pontiac

will not see the mid teens (201X) and when I said "what about the Enclave,

Solstice and G8" I was told: all those core products will go to chevy.

Riiiiiiiiiiight!

solstice could easily go the chevy

impala can take over for G8

enclave - i hear rumours of a cadillac lambda

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Hate to:

But Buick is absolutely doing better with few models. Instead of wasting money on 7 bad models, Buick is in a much better position selling three really good models. Granted, they are not there yet, but the only brand under GM that can and should only support a full line of cars and trucks is Chevrolet. With fewer models, you have a less of a chance of GM hemorrhaging money trying to make sure all the other cars sell well. Too many models is what got GM in trouble in the first place. I don't understand how people still don't see that.

Yeah, but the current LaCrosse isn't really good. Its really run-of-the-mill, really mediocre, and the only things it really has going for it are the color selection, an available front split-bench seat, the new grille, and the Super model, that's all I can think of. And the Lucerne's styling is elegant, but bland and un-Buick-like and uninspired. And what got GM into trouble in the first place was that the design and styling was bland and the equipment wasn't there-they are still very much Chevrolet-like in equipment. Its not 1989 anymore, its 2008, and they need to step it up. I think Buick has a sureshot at succeeding for sure, but they need to keep pressing forward, and I believe they are doing that. Buick also needs to keep expanding-I believe there very much could be/is a market for vehicles such as a compacr car-based crossover SUV, a FWD/AWD compact car, a more-performance-oriented RWD compact car (Rapid, Skyhawk, and Skylark, respectively). Now does anyone know about the "Reserve" trim level name that AH-HA referenced a couple years back? If its still going on, then it should be what the CXS model is now, and now the base trim, thus killing CX and CXL, as they are too Chevy-like in terms of equipment.

And lets see more styling individuality! Bring back the sweepspears! Not excessively, or yeah, maybe excessively-we need something different! Again, Enclave is on the right track.

[CaddyXLR-V]

solstice could easily go the chevy

impala can take over for G8

enclave - i hear rumours of a cadillac lambda

I don't know about that. Lutz has already stated they can't send the Ute here as an El Camino because Chevy already has enough models.

There is room for the Impala and G8, with the Impala being LWB Zeta and G8 being SWB Zeta. The G8 can have a higher pricetag, despite it's smaller size, and will be tuned more towards performance. The Impala will still need to stay reasonably priced, so they don't lose all 300k sales that it does now. The Malibu may be able to make up for some of it, but not all. The G8 will be lower volume, and can afford to have a higher price, since the Grand Prix is lame anyway. If GM gives Pontiac a coupe(GTO), and mid-size RWD(Torana), Pontiac would be GM's hottest brand.

If that happens, Cadillac would also be able to use the Torana platform to make a true 3 series competitor.

Buick could offer the LWB Zeta, with a higher price than the Impala, and it can appeal to the DTS buyers who will need somewhere to go once the DTS is killed.

I don't think Cadillac should get Lambda, they should just update the SRX to be less wagon-like, and lose the 3rd row. It's a great vehicle, that is being held back because it looks odd from certain angles, and should never have been stretched to fit the tiny 3rd row.

[Delta Force79]

cire: Well said! Buick (and Pontiac) are assets. If they became "damaged," as Lutz said, it was because GM damaged them.

Oldsmobile was an asset....look what GM did to that brand. Even in the 80's when things went downhill for all of the big 3, Oldsmobile had a number 1 seller in the Cutlass Ciera, state of the art technology in the Torondao Trofeo, the Cutlass Supreme was still a popular model. Aurora was a beautiful car ( still is quite frankly) and should have been showcased better in advertising. The Bravada should have never been a S-10 clone, and intrigue and Alero while styled nicely....just didn't capture the essence of Oldsmobile and missed the mark. GM didn't give Olds a chance to bounce back...the third gen Bravada was a beauty for it's time, the second gen Aurora still has one of the best styled GM interiors ever ( aside from the corporate radio) and yet Olds got the axe. Buick is not out of the woods yet....and I doubt Pontiac will be either with the G8.

[Chicagoland]

Oh gag, that 100 year old Cutlass Ciera was on a life support and as sexy as 'Depends' undergaments. And, most went to Alamo/National/Avis. Catering to older people only eventually bites, since when the 'all new' Intrigue came out, they were so ashamed to put Olds badges on it. What did they think, the cars would magnetically draw cusotomers to dealers? Older buyers hated not seeing their frilly old boxy cars, with velour, column shift, and horizontal speedos. Younger buyers couldnt have cared less, they went to Infinti dealers loooking for Intriques. Olds brand name Die hards just didn't buy enough, or stuck with their used 1980's cars.

Reality is most of the US does not live in Lansing MI, to people from the Southwest or Western states, Oldsmobile was a 'nursing home' car going 45 on the Interstate in the left lane. It was near impossible to change image over night.

Intrique was just a tarted up 1987 W body, and the Aurora should have been a Bonneville or Impala. Not try to please the ancient dealers thinking the 1970's were coming back.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Chicagoland