Pontiac G6 GXP Street Package

[mustang84]

Not a fan of it. All the extra stuff looks tacky and I'd rather see the grille wider than longer.

What could've been...

[siegen]

Lose the buck-tooth grille and the spoiler, and replace it with something more modest, and it might be a good looking Pontiac.

[ToniCipriani]

See now that I actually liked...if it were in this red it would look pretty good.

Here you go...

Other colours here: http://g6performance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10128

[Intrepidation]

Here you go...

Other colours here: http://g6performance.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10128

It still pales in comparison to this:

I get depressed every time I see it

[Ryan27]

Grandma and Grandpa go to sleep... its past your bedtime if you think that boring early GXP concept or even the even older G6 sedan concept is something to be sad over... Im so glad GM doesn't agree with these boring concepts of what is cool.... Great Job on this one GM Keep it up... People will buy this and be happy with it and and if the old guy in car next to you thinks its ugly... well that makes it even more fun.

[american_driver]

Dealership had a fourdoor version. Interesting. The best thing I can say is the street edition appears to be a $900 stand alone option. So it comes down to a matter of taste (or lack of...).

[Ryan27]

looks better with it though.....

[enzl]

Grandma and Grandpa go to sleep... its past your bedtime if you think that boring early GXP concept or even the even older G6 sedan concept is something to be sad over... Im so glad GM doesn't agree with these boring concepts of what is cool.... Great Job on this one GM Keep it up... People will buy this and be happy with it and and if the old guy in car next to you thinks its ugly... well that makes it even more fun.

Don't worry, they'll be plenty of G6's to rent at your local Budget once they euthanize the GP. G + G can check out how nice they really are the next time they visit.

It doesn't matter that I like or hate this thing...I just wonder if the time/effort/$ could have gone to something more important. Here's a few suggestions that might be better bets, just for Pontiac:

1. Fix the top/trunk issues with the Solstice (as a bonus, it'll help Saturn's Sky + Opel/Vauxhall + Daewoo)

2. Get the G8 here sooner...it's the only thing worth a damn in the Pontiac lineup---other than Solstice

3. Interior supplier other than Rubbermaid for the G6.

4. Something other than badge differentiation for the G5 or Torrent. (You promised Mr. Lutz!)

5. Payoffs to a couple of journalists so they'll consider Pontiac relevant again?

[Intrepidation]

Grandma and Grandpa go to sleep... its past your bedtime if you think that boring early GXP concept or even the even older G6 sedan concept is something to be sad over... Im so glad GM doesn't agree with these boring concepts of what is cool.... Great Job on this one GM Keep it up... People will buy this and be happy with it and and if the old guy in car next to you thinks its ugly... well that makes it even more fun.

You sir, are a funny man! The only people who'd buy these things are either those who want to be an American ricer or those with no sense taste (they sort of go hand in hand). The proportions are disgusting and so is the mishmash of styles...and then there's that interior....slapping an ugly wing, beaver teeth and shiny wheels on it won't take away from the fact that it's a pathetic car and the worst of the current Epsilon lineup.

[CMG]

Why do you torment my eyes so?!

I like the colors...there, I said something nice about it.

I agree. Nice color, the car isn't my cup of tea at all!

"Boy racer" is being nice IMO...

:wink:

[CMG]

if the old guy in car next to you thinks its ugly... well that makes it even more fun.

Are you a fan of spinner hubcaps?

[Ryan27]

Are you a fan of spinner hubcaps?

Not at all, In fact I generally prefer stock rims. I think the 22 inch rims you usually see on cars are tacky and over-designed. Luckily Pontiac did change the rims on this car to the 5 spoke, cuz the ones on the showcar, (and pictured on the Halo car are nasty), and NOT what are on the actual car.

[ToniCipriani]

Grandma and Grandpa go to sleep... its past your bedtime if you think that boring early GXP concept or even the even older G6 sedan concept is something to be sad over... Im so glad GM doesn't agree with these boring concepts of what is cool.... Great Job on this one GM Keep it up... People will buy this and be happy with it and and if the old guy in car next to you thinks its ugly... well that makes it even more fun.

Um... dude... I guess by now you would have figured I have a G6. And by far, almost everyone in my G6 group I've asked HATED the new GXP. And it's not like we're old. We're in our 20s, exactly the crowd that Pontiac appeals to.

My biggest gripe about the GXP isn't its looks, is what's under that hood. All GM did was make the GTP look weird and misproportioned.

[A Horse With No Name]

Without a slick shifting 5 or preferably 6 speed manual the thing is worthless. I can live with the styling miscues, but please, please bring me a manual at the very minumum.

Chris

[Camino LS6]

Has this hideous thing been cancelled yet?

[Diehard GrandPrix Fan]

I know the G6 GXP styling isn't for everyone, but to me, it looks sporty enough to differentiate it from the regular version. Well, but then again, I love anything that's Pontiac, EXCEPT that Aussie made GTO and the upcomming Holden Commodore, *COUGH* G8 *COUGH* that are just plain ugly. I think G6 GXP is worth every penny, though my mind is set to get that last breed of the BEAUTIFUL, good ol' American family sedan Grand Prix before GM screws up again killing it after 08 in place of that aforementioned IMPORT from down under that is just a rebadged version, which is downright ugly and even worse interior that is nothing more than a trash. Part of the reason that my new Grand Prix will be the last EVER Pontiac I will be buying, nor any GM for that matter, for Pontiac is the only cars I liked in the GM line up, unless they don't kill the GP and continues the car at least as long as the Impala do. Hey, that Stupid, cheap, and idiotic looking Impala lives on, so it is only fair for the Grand Prix to live as well, which is a far superior looking car inside and out that are sportier and looks like a far more car than that Chevy garbage.

Enjoy your G6 GXP, it's one of the last remaining, AMERICAN made beauty before GM's non-sense begins next year, turning Pontiac as nothing more than a breathing ground for re-badged Aussie Holden garbage. Aside from the Tiburon look alike rear, the G6 is a really hansome car, and your GXP is a one heck of a beauty.

Edited December 30, 2007 by Diehard GrandPrix Fan

[CaddyXLR-V]

I know the G6 GXP styling isn't for everyone, but to me, it looks sporty enough to differentiate it from the regular version. Well, but then again, I love anything that's Pontiac, EXCEPT that Aussie made GTO and the upcomming Holden Commodore, *COUGH* G8 *COUGH* that are just plain ugly. I think G6 GXP is worth every penny, though my mind is set to get that last breed of the BEAUTIFUL, good ol' American family sedan Grand Prix before GM screws up again killing it after 08 in place of that aforementioned IMPORT from down under that is just a rebadged version, which is downright ugly and even worse interior that is nothing more than a trash. Part of the reason that my new Grand Prix will be the last EVER Pontiac I will be buying, nor any GM for that matter, for Pontiac is the only cars I liked in the GM line up, unless they don't kill the GP and continues the car at least as long as the Impala do. Hey, that Stupid, cheap, and idiotic looking Impala lives on, so it is only fair for the Grand Prix to live as well, which is a far superior looking car inside and out that are sportier and looks like a far more car than that Chevy garbage.

Enjoy your G6 GXP, it's one of the last remaining, AMERICAN made beauty before GM's non-sense begins next year, turning Pontiac as nothing more than a breathing ground for re-badged Aussie Holden garbage. Aside from the Tiburon look alike rear, the G6 is a really hansome car, and your GXP is a one heck of a beauty.

Go buy other cars, because if GM catered to you, Pontiac would be dead in 2 years because they would all be hideous and no one would buy them.

[Diehard GrandPrix Fan]

Go buy other cars, because if GM catered to you, Pontiac would be dead in 2 years because they would all be hideous and no one would buy them.

Sorry if it was offensive to you, but I just want to see chevy to drop at least a SINGLE model, it looks as though they are keeping ALL of their STUPID models while killing so many models of the other divisions.

I just DESPISE Chevy for getting all the undeserved love and attention from GM. I know they are the money maker, but they can easily change that by putting more attention to the other divisions as well. Chevy's are not the best.

[ToniCipriani]

Sorry if it was offensive to you, but I just want to see chevy to drop at least a SINGLE model, it looks as though they are keeping ALL of their STUPID models while killing so many models of the other divisions.

I just DESPISE Chevy for getting all the undeserved love and attention from GM. I know they are the money maker, but they can easily change that by putting more attention to the other divisions as well. Chevy's are not the best.

Define stupid. Every single model in the Chevy lineup right now serves a purpose, and by far is doing well.

[ToniCipriani]

Without a slick shifting 5 or preferably 6 speed manual the thing is worthless. I can live with the styling miscues, but please, please bring me a manual at the very minumum.

Chris

GM decided to cheap out and just warm over the GTP with hideous styling. I much rather they kept the GTP, and just make a nice ground effects kit for it.

Go buy other cars, because if GM catered to you, Pontiac would be dead in 2 years because they would all be hideous and no one would buy them.

Thank you.

[Diehard GrandPrix Fan]

Well, I just hate Chevy. Plain and simple. Sorry. No matter what they do, if they don't KILL HALF of their models, Impala included, to be fair, NEVER to return, I am going to keep on hating them. Chevys will never get any support from me.

Sorry.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Diehard GrandPrix Fan

[Dark Phoenix]

Wow... LOT of hate in this thread. Why are (many of) you guys in a Pontiac forum again?

The G6 concept WAS cool - FOR a sedan. But that's like saying that a 500lb chick is not bad looking for a fat girl. lol Sedans belong in Buick dealerships.

That said, the overall styling was sleek and the AWD aspect made me drool. But like with everything, even the Solstice, they just can't keep to the concept. Thanks so much Bob Putz.

I'm glad the G8 is coming because it's generating buzz and will bring in sales. But it DOES define sedan, visuall - boring. And howcome nobody rips on the ricer 'tezzas on the G8 GT?

The G6 GXP is a bad-ass looking car. The problem is that it's wrong wheel drive. FWD is the antithesis of performance, and those looks scream performance. See, Pontiac is about Excitement guys, Fuel for the Soul that is Designed for Action. It's aesthetics can't be "restrained", which is another word for boring. It has to be in your face. It can do that with luscious curves (Solstice), or sleek futuristic styling (3rd Gen and LT1 4th Gen T/A), or ultra aggressive lines and features like most every 2nd Gen and the LS1 WS6 T/As.

You guys probably hate my car, don't ya?

Oh, and you wanna talk ugly? Outside of every single chevy made, the Saturn Sky. Those hard edges and angles do NOT fit those proportions, NOR the luscious curves of the deck lid. And the interior.... god... I'm EASY to please when it comes to interiors, but the Sky's is just god awful and dreary.

The new GTO was the ultimate expression of sedate and restraint, and look at it. Boring as hell (visually), called a cavalier, and sold no more than V8 Firebirds (depite having EVERY advantage over them - no stigma, IRS, better interior, bigger engines (after 04), etc).

THIS is what the GTO should have been -

In your face, and laden with attitude.

If that had been the GTO, and the G6 had been the concept (and the Solstice had also been the concept), then they could have made the Rageous instead of the Vibe, and truly been kicking ass.

If nothing else, if the G6 at least goes RWD and gets some 'roids, then it could be pretty bad-ass -

None of that is about the pointless plastic cladding of the recent past. It's about function, form, and aggression - attitude that demands attention and signals it's performance intentions to the world.

The market does support over the top looks. Witness the WRX/STi and Evo (especially the 9 MR), or the Elise/Exige. The STi and Evo are not rice-mobiles either. They are hardened performance vehicles with no qualms about displaying their aggression and prowess to the world. (shame they are japanese and sedans though)

Edited March 25, 2008 by Dark Phoenix

[hyperv6]

Wow what a post. I bet your under 30 year old and not too far out of High School but we are glad you love Pontiac and have rejected Honda. My commnet is not to offend but we all have been there.

I understand you feelings and thoughts. I even agree on a few points but I hope you sped some time here and learn what todays market is all about.

Pontiac is into sedans as they are 85%+ of the market. Most of us here like Coupes too but understand they have to build what the general public wants to buy.

As for the show cars making it to production. I don't know what you expect? THe Solstice , Sky, SSR, Camaro, The new CTS coupe and more all have kept even more than could be expected styling from the show cars. The reason you have as much as you have is people like Bob Lutz who has made the styling teams keep it as close as possible to the original concept. Before Lutz the Solstice would not have even happened let alone be that close.

As for the G6 It was a pre Lutz car and has been upgraded to be better but it was too far along to make any real changes. While better than the Grand Am it is still behind the Aura and Malibu in overal quality and build. A second Gen will fix that.

As for the G6 GXP ... the sooner it dies the better. Bad wings fake scoopes, poor quality interior and the buck teeth did little to help it.

We have many people here that either work in the auto industry here or have great knowledge about it. I hope you take the time to follow what they say and the information they have as there is so much more to building cars than just doing a cool design.

Don't mistake our comments for hate as most of us are die hard Pontiac fans. I have been around Pontiacs all my like, driven most all years of GTO's and Trans Ams. I even show and have 5 first place wins in class at the Pontiac nationals and have contributed to some storys in High Pefromanc Pontiac Magazine.

Many of my friend own 421 SD cars and one even has the Ventura that was runner up in Detroits NHRA's US Nationals 1960. Pontiac is in my blood. But likw others here we know Pontiac is struggling and know they have to do better in a tough market. We may not like all the changes but Pontiac needs to draw in people who have never owned a Pontiac before or they will die. It is that simple as there is no longer a large enough base to depend on.

[Cory Wolfe]

Wow... LOT of hate in this thread. Why are (many of) you guys in a Pontiac forum again?

The G6 GXP is a bad-ass looking car. The problem is that it's wrong wheel drive. FWD is the antithesis of performance, and those looks scream performance. See, Pontiac is about Excitement guys, Fuel for the Soul that is Designed for Action. It's aesthetics can't be "restrained", which is another word for boring. It has to be in your face. It can do that with luscious curves (Solstice), or sleek futuristic styling (3rd Gen and LT1 4th Gen T/A), or ultra aggressive lines and features like most every 2nd Gen and the LS1 WS6 T/As.

You guys probably hate my car, don't ya?

We're Pontiac fans that aren't blind.

No, the G6 GXP is ugly. You see, I like attractive Pontiacs, not ugly ones. For example, I love 4th gen Firebirds, especially the Firehawks. They are the pinnacle of modern Pontiac styling. The G6 GXP? Not so much... It's more tacky and ricey than anything. It's not like an EVO or STI at all. Those two have meaningful, functional styling with the performance to match. The G6 GXP has neither. Average performance bested by bland family sedans with some tacked on ground effects, a buck tooth grill, and cartoonish spoiler. The same could be said for the Grand Prix and its GXP variant. There's a difference between being over the top and being a complete failure. The 4th gen Firebirds are over the top in a tasteful way while the G6 GXP is just a stylistic failure, pure and simple.

[PurdueGuy]

See, Pontiac is about Excitement guys, Fuel for the Soul that is Designed for Action.

Actually, that's not what Pontiac is about. That's what Pontiac should be about.

[Robert Hall]

Actually, that's not what Pontiac is about. That's what Pontiac should be about.

Except for the Solstice and GTO, lately Pontiac's slogan could have been: Pontiac: The Hearbeat of Avis.

Hopefully, the G8 can help turn the image thing around...

Edited March 25, 2008 by moltar

[ZL-1]

Great... we had to bring the Pontiac G6 Bugs Bunny Edition thread back from the dead...

[Z-06]

Great... we had to bring the Pontiac G6 Bugs Bunny Edition thread back from the dead...

Come on you know you love Bugs Bunny edition G6, don't you?

What I do not understand is, how in the blooming world did Bob Lutz accept this design? Unless, it got approved by middlemen when he was flying his fighter jet.

[ZL-1]

Come on you know you love Bugs Bunny edition G6, don't you?

God no! I'd buy 10 of the new RWD Hyundais before I'd ever consider driving Bugs Bunny

What I do not understand is, how in the blooming world did Bob Lutz accept this design? Unless, it got approved by middlemen when he was flying his fighter jet.

Maybe it was too late to change it? Or maybe, God forbid, he actually liked the thing?

[ocnblu]

It's an experiment to see if ppl like it better than the more restrained, standard versions. Kind of a throwback, if you ask me. I much prefer the standard GT with the 18" wheel option and the accessory chrome-trimmed grilles... that's all it needs to look its best.

[Dark Phoenix]

Wow what a post. I bet your under 30 year old and not too far out of High School but we are glad you love Pontiac and have rejected Honda. My commnet is not to offend but we all have been there.

I understand you feelings and thoughts. I even agree on a few points but I hope you sped some time here and learn what todays market is all about.

We have many people here that either work in the auto industry here or have great knowledge about it. I hope you take the time to follow what they say and the information they have as there is so much more to building cars than just doing a cool design.

Don't mistake our comments for hate as most of us are die hard Pontiac fans. I have been around Pontiacs all my like, driven most all years of GTO's and Trans Ams. I even show and have 5 first place wins in class at the Pontiac nationals and have contributed to some storys in High Pefromanc Pontiac Magazine.

Many of my friend own 421 SD cars and one even has the Ventura that was runner up in Detroits NHRA's US Nationals 1960. Pontiac is in my blood. But likw others here we know Pontiac is struggling and know they have to do better in a tough market. We may not like all the changes but Pontiac needs to draw in people who have never owned a Pontiac before or they will die. It is that simple as there is no longer a large enough base to depend on.

Yes, I am aware that they need new people buying. But they need direction, and need to be unchained by GM top brass. So far, the only people to have really done anythng for Pontiac are all long gone - Bunkie, Wangers, and Delorean. And even they were handcuffed by the top brass.

Lutz hates Pontiac and is schizophrenic. Yes, he brought out the Solstice, and I applaud him for that and I was one of his biggest supporters when he first came on board. But over time, his hatred for the Firebird, his comments about damaged brands, and the overall languishing portfolio of the brand, along side offering "more aggressive" versions of cars meant to save Pontiac, to other brands (read "Sky" - it's ugly, but more people seem to like it, and Saturn does not need nor desrerve a sports car). And then he positions Cadillac as the BMW competitor, just before saying that Pontiac needs to move "up market" to become the same. We all know that Pontiac will never be allowed to steal Cadillac's thunder. So... he's either Schizo, or very crafty and slowly killing the brand while making people think he's trying to help it.

My past cars have been a '71 Olds 98 Royale 'vert, an '84 T/A T-Top (WS6 equipped), an '88 GTA Hard Top, 2 Grand Prixs (coupes, '90 and '91 - beaters), and my current '02 WS6 T/A (bought new in 02) - and my grandfather's Dakota R/T (kept for sentimentality, but is also now my daily driver until I can replace it - 5.9 Magnum Club Cab).

I have always been about classic American power, and style. Never Honda. lol

Pontiac is into sedans as they are 85%+ of the market. Most of us here like Coupes too but understand they have to build what the general public wants to buy.

Yes I know that sedans are a big part of the OVERALL market. But that's probably the biggest point. Corporate mentality. Yes, sedans should be covered, but because it's another form of the performance market, not because Pontiac needs to sell on par with chevy. If the rest of the worlds car makers operated under the same accounting mentality that GM has, they would all have long since closed their doors or sold out. You don't need monster volume to be successful. But nobody at GM really wants to let Pontiac form an identity and take it's own strides.

FWD is a part of the "performance" market too. I hate FWD, and cross-overs, but I recognize the value in the G5 and Vibe. So don't misunderstand me. (I also recognize how much of that value is being left to rot too)

I honestly am glad the G8 is here. I'm trying to talk my dad into one (or maybe a CTS). The name sucks, and the styling is bland, but the styling does fit the car.

But ok, so they have to go after hte large markets? Are old El Camino and Ranchero fans a huge market? And why not the Wagon? (more Lutz Schizophrenia/Pontiac hatred)

As for the show cars making it to production. I don't know what you expect? THe Solstice , Sky, SSR, Camaro, The new CTS coupe and more all have kept even more than could be expected styling from the show cars. The reason you have as much as you have is people like Bob Lutz who has made the styling teams keep it as close as possible to the original concept. Before Lutz the Solstice would not have even happened let alone be that close.

The Solstice concept looked much better. Yes, the production IS close, and is awesome. Hey, I love the car. But it's nose was uglied up in the production run. The grills look pushed down, the arrow lifted up, creating a nose and face, and the nose was pushed in too. The differences are subtle, but you can see that they look different. (and the concept better)

Speaking of concepts and markets - SUVs, Cross-Overs, Sport Wagons, hot rubber burning SUVs, etc are all the Rage - so how is the Rageous not perfect for all of that? (not to mention Righteous)

As for the G6 It was a pre Lutz car and has been upgraded to be better but it was too far along to make any real changes. While better than the Grand Am it is still behind the Aura and Malibu in overal quality and build. A second Gen will fix that.

As for the G6 GXP ... the sooner it dies the better. Bad wings fake scoopes, poor quality interior and the buck teeth did little to help it.

So basically what I'm getting here is that young buys with fire in their blood are an invalid market? Isn't that what got Buick in trouble? The WRX and Evo's seem to do ok.

The thing is, the interior has nothing to do with the styling on the outside. The scoops should NOT be fake. The wing should be functional. But above all, the performance should match the looks. And that thing just screams performance. Should really be RWD too.

But don't hate on the looks because the scoops are fake or the interior is cheap or the performance blows. Those are 2 different concepts.

I actually agree that, while I like the G6 (Coupe and Hard Top 'Vert), it's redundant. Do we really need 2 FWDs in the performance division? Vibe - Mazda3/Scion Xa and b/WRX competitor (yes, totally different markets, but that's the brilliance and potential of the design, it's all about marketing - and building up the specs to match, which right now they don't). G5, FWD performance car - Tc, Xa (to some extent), RSX, etc.- should have 4 and 6 cyl options and take over for the G6. G8, RWD sedan - false-Charger, 300C, cheap 3 and 5 series sedan buyers, even get in the face of Evos. Solstice, roadster and lithe coupe performance market, hard core - people want either an MX-5 or a Corvette and love to race but don't want to be thoguht of as a hairdressor and don't have the Corvette money. Torrent, hot SUV - crank it up (and make it AWD with a RWD bias) to take on the X5/6 and Cayenne. Of course that leaves a hole that the Trans Am once ably filled, but tha's a whole nother argument. My only point is it's not about what I want to own. It's about pushing the brand and re-invigorating it. Using what's there already and building it right.

The point of my post is that it has to be done with aggression and flair appropriate to the market segment. And the sedan buyers (like you?) are not the ones who will like the G6 GXP looks. But performance coupe enthusiasts will (and do).

Remember, like I said, attitude and agression come in many forms, and can be sleek seductive curves, or loud scoops and wings.

Everything you say about the G6 GXP can be said about my car. 'Cept that my car will rip your face off if you don't respect it behind the wheel - and will smoke most things out there (even on the back roads, but even many F-Body guys think these cars can't turn for some reason).

[Dark Phoenix]

We're Pontiac fans that aren't blind.

No, the G6 GXP is ugly. You see, I like attractive Pontiacs, not ugly ones. For example, I love 4th gen Firebirds, especially the Firehawks. They are the pinnacle of modern Pontiac styling. The G6 GXP? Not so much... It's more tacky and ricey than anything. It's not like an EVO or STI at all. Those two have meaningful, functional styling with the performance to match. The G6 GXP has neither. Average performance bested by bland family sedans with some tacked on ground effects, a buck tooth grill, and cartoonish spoiler. The same could be said for the Grand Prix and its GXP variant. There's a difference between being over the top and being a complete failure. The 4th gen Firebirds are over the top in a tasteful way while the G6 GXP is just a stylistic failure, pure and simple.

lol, that's the kind of high and mighty, holier than thou attitude that you hear from liberals. Their way is the only correct way and everyone else is blind or stupid. Nice.

The average person doesn't know what's functional and what's not. And you do I assume? Ok, what is the wing's profile and it's AoA? Are the grills blocked off and not providing cooling? Is aesthetics a bad thing for it's own sake? (metal grills, 18s, etc)

As mentioned above, everything said about the G6 GXP could be said about my car - save for the performance. And that's the real gripe - it can't back it up. Even I said that. But that has nothing to do with the pure visuals of the car. You're attacking the wrong thing for the wrong reasons.

[Cory Wolfe]

lol, that's the kind of high and mighty, holier than thou attitude that you hear from liberals. Their way is the only correct way and everyone else is blind or stupid. Nice.

The average person doesn't know what's functional and what's not. And you do I assume? Ok, what is the wing's profile and it's AoA? Are the grills blocked off and not providing cooling? Is aesthetics a bad thing for it's own sake? (metal grills, 18s, etc)

As mentioned above, everything said about the G6 GXP could be said about my car - save for the performance. And that's the real gripe - it can't back it up. Even I said that. But that has nothing to do with the pure visuals of the car. You're attacking the wrong thing for the wrong reasons.

While quite subjective, it's simply ugly. I am against ugly. Perhaps you're not and you are a fan of ugly. Who am I to judge? I'm just someone with taste and not everyone can be as great as I. *nods*

Getting serious for a moment, I actually agree with much of what you say in your post to Hyper... Besides your thoughts of Lutz and the lengths you go to defend the 'gem' that is the G6 GXP. I especially agree about the Solstice, concept versus production. I figured I was the only one who thought the production version wasn't close enough to the concept, which was pure sex on wheels. The new targa helps, but it's still lacking compared to the wild orange coupe. And to think, some within GM dare to call the concept cartoonish. As well, I was always a huge fan of the Rageous. All it needed was to be cleaned up a bit and it would have made a great addition to Pontiac's lineup. Again, though, I cannot agree about the G6 GXP.

Per the functional aspect, the styling add-ons do not improve the performance any over the GXP without the Street Package.

I will say, though, I'd much rather be seen in the 'Bugs Bunny Edition' G6 than my Cutlass. Oh, how great it would be to drive a vehicle with more than enough usable power, decently entertaining handling, and sleek looks, even if its American Rice at its worst.

[Robert Hall]

As mentioned above, everything said about the G6 GXP could be said about my car - save for the performance. And that's the real gripe - it can't back it up. Even I said that. But that has nothing to do with the pure visuals of the car. You're attacking the wrong thing for the wrong reasons.

What is this 'my car' you keep referring to?

[Cory Wolfe]

What is this 'my car' you keep referring to?

He posted it... a 4th gen. T/A.

[hyperv6]

Yes, I am aware that they need new people buying. But they need direction, and need to be unchained by GM top brass. So far, the only people to have really done anythng for Pontiac are all long gone - Bunkie, Wangers, and Delorean. And even they were handcuffed by the top brass.

Lutz hates Pontiac and is schizophrenic. Yes, he brought out the Solstice, and I applaud him for that and I was one of his biggest supporters when he first came on board. But over time, his hatred for the Firebird, his comments about damaged brands, and the overall languishing portfolio of the brand, along side offering "more aggressive" versions of cars meant to save Pontiac, to other brands (read "Sky" - it's ugly, but more people seem to like it, and Saturn does not need nor desrerve a sports car). And then he positions Cadillac as the BMW competitor, just before saying that Pontiac needs to move "up market" to become the same. We all know that Pontiac will never be allowed to steal Cadillac's thunder. So... he's either Schizo, or very crafty and slowly killing the brand while making people think he's trying to help it.

My past cars have been a '71 Olds 98 Royale 'vert, an '84 T/A T-Top (WS6 equipped), an '88 GTA Hard Top, 2 Grand Prixs (coupes, '90 and '91 - beaters), and my current '02 WS6 T/A (bought new in 02) - and my grandfather's Dakota R/T (kept for sentimentality, but is also now my daily driver until I can replace it - 5.9 Magnum Club Cab).

I have always been about classic American power, and style. Never Honda. lol

Yes I know that sedans are a big part of the OVERALL market. But that's probably the biggest point. Corporate mentality. Yes, sedans should be covered, but because it's another form of the performance market, not because Pontiac needs to sell on par with chevy. If the rest of the worlds car makers operated under the same accounting mentality that GM has, they would all have long since closed their doors or sold out. You don't need monster volume to be successful. But nobody at GM really wants to let Pontiac form an identity and take it's own strides.

FWD is a part of the "performance" market too. I hate FWD, and cross-overs, but I recognize the value in the G5 and Vibe. So don't misunderstand me. (I also recognize how much of that value is being left to rot too)

I honestly am glad the G8 is here. I'm trying to talk my dad into one (or maybe a CTS). The name sucks, and the styling is bland, but the styling does fit the car.

But ok, so they have to go after hte large markets? Are old El Camino and Ranchero fans a huge market? And why not the Wagon? (more Lutz Schizophrenia/Pontiac hatred)

The Solstice concept looked much better. Yes, the production IS close, and is awesome. Hey, I love the car. But it's nose was uglied up in the production run. The grills look pushed down, the arrow lifted up, creating a nose and face, and the nose was pushed in too. The differences are subtle, but you can see that they look different. (and the concept better)

Speaking of concepts and markets - SUVs, Cross-Overs, Sport Wagons, hot rubber burning SUVs, etc are all the Rage - so how is the Rageous not perfect for all of that? (not to mention Righteous)

So basically what I'm getting here is that young buys with fire in their blood are an invalid market? Isn't that what got Buick in trouble? The WRX and Evo's seem to do ok.

The thing is, the interior has nothing to do with the styling on the outside. The scoops should NOT be fake. The wing should be functional. But above all, the performance should match the looks. And that thing just screams performance. Should really be RWD too.

But don't hate on the looks because the scoops are fake or the interior is cheap or the performance blows. Those are 2 different concepts.

I actually agree that, while I like the G6 (Coupe and Hard Top 'Vert), it's redundant. Do we really need 2 FWDs in the performance division? Vibe - Mazda3/Scion Xa and b/WRX competitor (yes, totally different markets, but that's the brilliance and potential of the design, it's all about marketing - and building up the specs to match, which right now they don't). G5, FWD performance car - Tc, Xa (to some extent), RSX, etc.- should have 4 and 6 cyl options and take over for the G6. G8, RWD sedan - false-Charger, 300C, cheap 3 and 5 series sedan buyers, even get in the face of Evos. Solstice, roadster and lithe coupe performance market, hard core - people want either an MX-5 or a Corvette and love to race but don't want to be thoguht of as a hairdressor and don't have the Corvette money. Torrent, hot SUV - crank it up (and make it AWD with a RWD bias) to take on the X5/6 and Cayenne. Of course that leaves a hole that the Trans Am once ably filled, but tha's a whole nother argument. My only point is it's not about what I want to own. It's about pushing the brand and re-invigorating it. Using what's there already and building it right.

The point of my post is that it has to be done with aggression and flair appropriate to the market segment. And the sedan buyers (like you?) are not the ones who will like the G6 GXP looks. But performance coupe enthusiasts will (and do).

Remember, like I said, attitude and agression come in many forms, and can be sleek seductive curves, or loud scoops and wings.

Everything you say about the G6 GXP can be said about my car. 'Cept that my car will rip your face off if you don't respect it behind the wheel - and will smoke most things out there (even on the back roads, but even many F-Body guys think these cars can't turn for some reason).

To start I am a coupe guy so don't class me as a hater. But I understand that is what the buying public wants. GM is only going to build what sells and coupes outside the present Mustang are not high volume cars. The Camarom Stang and Challanger are only going to account for 300K cars. Compared to the total number of Camry's alone that is not a large number for 3 popular lines of cars.

As for Lutz you had better learn who he really is and what all he is doing. He is as close to Delorean as GM has seen since the 1970's. He has no hate for Pontiac he really likes Pontiac but the truth is Pontiac is not a priority for GM, Cadillac and Chevy are profit centers. You have to run a company with your head not your heart.

Now that things at Chevy and Cadillac are in motion GM can start to look at Buick, GMC and Pontiac. You now have to consider them as one as they will each have several models that will fill special niches that they could not before as a high volume line. High Volume is not a priority where as special niche cars that turn a profit at a lower volume now are.

Lutz does not hate the bird but there is only room for one car like a Camaro and the Camaro has always sold more cars and the name while not much higher does have better recignition. GM had the luck of having two very good cars over the years but they have room for only one and Camaro is the first stinger here. There is a lot riding on this car and it needs to work. Selling a sister car would do little to help and only take away sales from the Camaro. The Bird was more a Camaro premium model and always the nicer of the two but the new Camaro will fill that roll today.

I think your going to find if approved the new Alpha Pontiac may make a better G6 in the future as the present one is nothing but a high way car and not a curve burner. Their is a lot to come we have not seen yet if the Economy does not kill Pontiac first.

I think you will find cars like the WRX sell as much for the performance as they do for the Hot Wheels cartoon looks. Styling is temporary where performance last forever in the public eye.

If you want Pontiac to live they need cars and models that give great performance but are not shared with Chevy. Pontiac for too long has been nothing but a fancy Chevy and they deserve better. Pontiac can live very well with 4-5 models but they need ot be better than a Camaro clone as they have been..

[ToniCipriani]

This thing is hideous, hands down. And it's coming from someone who owns a G6.

And I'm not alone. There's plenty of other G6 owners who share my view, and are ashamed to be associated with this heap of junk. It's not even worthy of the GXP badge.

The next gen G6 can't come soon enough.

[2QuickZ's]

I've seen a couple of these suckers on the road in the last few days. My first thought was, "Who is buying these things?" I believe Dark Phoenix has answered that question, though I am a little disappointed that a fellow 4th gen F-body owner is in love with this thing. My second thought was that it looks "cartoonish" even in person. Just my personal opinions, though, and looks are definitely subjective. Hell, Pontiac even managed to sell a bunch of Aztecs and this thing looks positively pedestrian compared to those ugly ass hunks o' $h!. I guess their is a buyer for every vehicle, just not necessarily in the quantity or price point that the OEM anticipated.

Just as an aside for my fellow F body lover: I loved my '94 Z28 convertible that I used to own but even I recognized that styling wise it was only one step away from being an oversized Geo Storm. My '02 Z28 is better but still is not the epitome of style. Both of them were supposed to be Firebird Formula's but for some reason I wound up with Camaro's. My '02 Z28 would have been an '02 Formula Firehawk (sunset orange metallic) if GM hadn't made T-tops standard in 2002.

Edited March 26, 2008 by 2QuickZ's

[Intrepidation]

Why, oh why must we bring this thread back from the grave?!

[SuperSport623]

because there is a bugs bunny lover among us!

[Dark Phoenix]

But I understand that is what the buying public wants.

And of course since I have the gaul to challenge you, I automatically have no clue. Yes, seen this so many times before it's not even funny.

GM is only going to build what sells and coupes outside the present Mustang are not high volume cars. The Camarom Stang and Challanger are only going to account for 300K cars. Compared to the total number of Camry's alone that is not a large number for 3 popular lines of cars.

And as we know, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Koenigsegg, and Lotus combined sell that many cars too.....

Wait.. let me guess - but Pontiac doesn't have the performance or badge to sell cars like that. Yeah. But it doesn't have to be JUST like that. Point is high volume isn't the be all, end all. If it was, the Corvette would be dropped since THAT market is even smaller, and it doesn't post Camry-like numbers.

Volume is for chevy. This mentality that you have to sell 300K units is what's going to kill Pontiac, AND GM needlessly. It's WHY Pontiac has produced such dull dreary crap for so long, it's WHY GM has used such cheap interiors and haphazard, shoddy build quality (drop cost to be more appealing to buyers), and WHY GM has been giving cars away for so long.

Profit and huge volume are not the same thing. And you know what? Not doubling your profits every year is not the end of the world either. I know, next you'll look down your nose at me over that one, right? Profit is profit. It's ludicrous to claim that Intel dropping from $12 billion profit to $9 billion profit is a bad thing, yet people did. As if $9 billion in profit was in the red somehow.

As for Lutz you had better learn who he really is and what all he is doing. He is as close to Delorean as GM has seen since the 1970's. He has no hate for Pontiac he really likes Pontiac but the truth is Pontiac is not a priority for GM, Cadillac and Chevy are profit centers. You have to run a company with your head not your heart.

Ok, comments like this "you had better learn" are why I have such sarcasm and 'tude in this post. He's done a lot of things, and conversly has NOT done a lot of things that indicate little head use.

Now that things at Chevy and Cadillac are in motion GM can start to look at Buick, GMC and Pontiac. You now have to consider them as one as they will each have several models that will fill special niches that they could not before as a high volume line. High Volume is not a priority where as special niche cars that turn a profit at a lower volume now are.

You just said that high volume is a must and if it can't sell 300K units it can't be done.

Lutz does not hate the bird but there is only room for one car like a Camaro and the Camaro has always sold more cars and the name while not much higher does have better recignition. GM had the luck of having two very good cars over the years but they have room for only one and Camaro is the first stinger here. There is a lot riding on this car and it needs to work. Selling a sister car would do little to help and only take away sales from the Camaro. The Bird was more a Camaro premium model and always the nicer of the two but the new Camaro will fill that roll today.

And here we go...

Ok, sorry, but this is utter crap. They do NOT compete with one another and they do NOT rob profits from one another. It's the whole point of platform sharing in the first bloody place.

If they sell a Firebird or a camaro - they sell an F-Body. To do what they did in the 4th Gen, it doesn't take that much money. Or rather, it doesn't HAVE to. Doesn't mean they won't blow loads of cash, but that's a totally different story.

See, "sister" cars make so little sense, and Lutz knows so much better than that that he pitched the Saturn Sky.

And how is it that a GTO on the Zeta platform makes sense, but a Firebird does not?

No see, all of these anti-Firebird or anti-Trans Am arguments are bunk. Pure and simple and have all been countered by GM itself, and the very people who POSE these arguments.

I think your going to find if approved the new Alpha Pontiac may make a better G6 in the future as the present one is nothing but a high way car and not a curve burner. Their is a lot to come we have not seen yet if the Economy does not kill Pontiac first.

It's not the economy, it's the mis-management that has been going on ever since the brand consolidation (arguably even before).

I think you will find cars like the WRX sell as much for the performance as they do for the Hot Wheels cartoon looks. Styling is temporary where performance last forever in the public eye.

And isn't that the point of an "excitement" or "performance" division? Cut models, crank performance. You're still unable to separate this. The looks of a design and it's performance and build are 2 separate issues. I _agree_ that the performance and build needs to be way upped. But that doesn't change the fact that the styling of that car is mean.

If you want Pontiac to live they need cars and models that give great performance but are not shared with Chevy. Pontiac for too long has been nothing but a fancy Chevy and they deserve better. Pontiac can live very well with 4-5 models but they need ot be better than a Camaro clone as they have been..

Mm-hmm. And which GM cars have been used in movies and TV shows? Caddys, Corvettes (Corvette Summer, The Wraith), and Trans Ams. Of those, the first 2 were just props and set peices. Which ones were stars? Trans Ams. Not camaros. When Hollywood needed a car for a hot shoe good ol boy, they needed something with flash and balls, something with star quality. Only one car made sense - the '78 Trans Am. When Glen Larson needed a sleek, futuristic car to be a star in his new show, only one car was an option, only one car made sense - the '82 Trans Am.

John Delorean got the ball rolling by dropping a 400 in the Firebird when he was denied the Banshee and offered the F-Body as a booby prize. Pontiac designers created the record sales setting 2nd Gen chassis (and any time Bandit hit theaters or TV they couldn't produce Trans Ams fast enough). They also wanted to take the aero further than they did but chevy cried. Later Pontiac forced the issue and got GM to ok the use of the Corvette 350 in the F-Body (prior to GM saying "do it" chevy kept saying it was impossible, then suddenly it all magically worked). If GM hadn't been so blind, the GTA would have been what the '89 Anniversary Trans Am was and would have chased down a lot of the original target market - 300Z and RX-7 buyers. In time, it's not a stretch to see that IRS would have followed. (and that's not even getting into killing the Fiero, which was another mistake)

Like you said, in this market they can't be expected to sell volume on par with chevy. They NEVER should have been expected to do so. Had they been accepted as a low volume producer and unchained and allowed to do their own thing, they would have lived up to the hype and not be in trouble now.

Yes, they can survive on 4 or 5 models. They can survive on one so long as it is in the black and brings people into a GM dealer. Camrys and Accords are not the point, and their #s can't ever be considered as a reference.

[Dark Phoenix]

I've seen a couple of these suckers on the road in the last few days. My first thought was, "Who is buying these things?" I believe Dark Phoenix has answered that question, though I am a little disappointed that a fellow 4th gen F-body owner is in love with this thing. My second thought was that it looks "cartoonish" even in person. Just my personal opinions, though, and looks are definitely subjective. Hell, Pontiac even managed to sell a bunch of Aztecs and this thing looks positively pedestrian compared to those ugly ass hunks o' $h!. I guess their is a buyer for every vehicle, just not necessarily in the quantity or price point that the OEM anticipated.

Just as an aside for my fellow F body lover: I loved my '94 Z28 convertible that I used to own but even I recognized that styling wise it was only one step away from being an oversized Geo Storm. My '02 Z28 is better but still is not the epitome of style. Both of them were supposed to be Firebird Formula's but for some reason I wound up with Camaro's. My '02 Z28 would have been an '02 Formula Firehawk (sunset orange metallic) if GM hadn't made T-tops standard in 2002.

Formulas are the only REAL Firehawks.

See, this is the thing, I'm not in love with the G6 GXP. I DO think it looks mean. But my point is the hatred for agressive styling doesn't belong in a Pontiac fan. And it IS aggressive, even if one doesn't enjoy or appreciate it. Also, it's target market isn't the G8 crowd anyway. They can't be bashed for going after different markets in their own "tongue".

[Dark Phoenix]

because there is a bugs bunny lover among us!

lol Hey this place was dead. Ya gotta admit I livened it up. lol

[Blake Noble]

See, "sister" cars make so little sense, and Lutz knows so much better than that that he pitched the Saturn Sky.

I'll give you a clue as to why the Opel GT co-exists with the Solstice with just two words: global viability. :AH-HA_wink:

Camrys and Accords are not the point, and their #s can't ever be considered as a reference.

Pontiac has to turn a profit for GM, and offer an enticing product, in order for the strictly business-side of GM to justify its existence. I do agree that Pontiac should not be seen as any sort of mainstream car, however. Pontiac cars have always been above the mainstream, from their greatest iterations to their worst.

[z28luvr01]

I'm in agreement with DP in that the G6 GXP should have the performance credentials to back up it's "aggressive" looks. Since it offers nothing over the regular GTP, it's an abomination and a disgrace to the GXP designation, especially given the Solstce GXP, the G8 GXP, the Torrent GXP, and, yes, even the GP GXP were all significantly hotter than their more plebian counterparts.

From there we part ways. While I can handle the side skirts and the scoops, the front and rear treatment given to the GXP is exactly what Pontiac has been ridiculed for since the mid 90s and trying to move away from since Lutz came on board. It's overwrought, cheesy, and disgusting to look at. Give me run of the mill GTP over this monstrosity any day.

Actually, for the same price, I'll take the base G8 instead - I'll deal with the 2 extra doors.

[SuperSport623]

ill tell you this much.... my next car will almost deffinetley be a 4th Gen F-Body. it will take some finances to fall into perfect place, because my uber small paycheck wont cut it. My nova sufferes daily driver duty as is, and hopefully in 4 months ill have a Formula/Trans Am sitting in my driveway, complete with the T56 (seriously, slushbox in a firebird?, not for me)in the menacing Navy Blue Metallic to match my Nova.... i agree wholeheartedly with BlackVipes that the Trans Am is the pinnacle of Pontiac, the 4th gen is a beauty (i myself am not a fan of the 93-97 though).... but if i can afford it, id get a GTO.... i really dont wanna start another argument over the GTO. While some feel it wasnt styled right, i think its a sexy beast.

i wasnt a fan of the solstice until the coupe debuted... i prefer the edgy mini corvette looks of the SKY, but now with the Solstice Coupe, i want it..... see a pattern here?

4TH Gen Firebird, VZ GTO, Solstice, theres are the cars Pontiac needs! fuel for the soul! they look good without being tacky.... the G6 GXP, IMO, are what Pontiac should be moving away from, tacky body kits.. its not aggressive, its just goofy.... its really not a step up from the ribbed cladding. This is holding back Pontiac.. i can sure tell you that kids my age (17-18) dont find the car exciting at all... why? because even though my generation loves bodykits and boy racer looks (which i DESPISE!) this car doesnt look aggressive... it looks like it has a bad underbite and a homemade wing.... besides that, without some real power and a manual, this isnt performance,.... this is a joke!

[/RANT]

PS: dear lord i want my LS1 car damnit!

[Intrepidation]

lol Hey this place was dead. Ya gotta admit I livened it up. lol

There are some threads best left dead.

[Blake Noble]

There are some threads best left dead.

Yes. Whatever happened to "Live and let die?"

[SuperSport623]

Yes. Whatever happened to "Live and let die?"

god damnit.. ill be singing that song all night cause of you

[Blake Noble]

god damnit.. ill be singing that song all night cause of you

Sing with me now!

"You always said, 'Live and let live ...'"