C&D Review of New Accord

[K.C.]

In C&D's October issue, they do a preview of the new Accord. They go on about how much bigger the car is, how the styling is plain, how the controls are hard to decipher, and at the very end they said that the Accord is 32 years old, going on 62. HAHAHAHAHA! With an average age of 50, the Accord is growing into the old man's car. Interesting review I thought, and I didn't think it was a very good one. Anyone else read the review? What did you think?

[bcs296]

I think the Accord is nice enough that the Malibu is going to have a hard time against it.

Speaking of the Malibu, why is it that we have been hearing about/seeing the '08 Malibu for so long now (much longer than the '08 Accord) yet the Accord is already available for the media to drive and will also beat the Malibu to dealer lots?

This is typical of GM and very frustrating. By the time their product hits the road it's already behind the competition.

[plane]

Oh, that's a most blissfully enlightening Chicken Little post of the week.

We haven't seen the Malibu yet in person and it's already behind the competition?

Your clairvoyant powers are considerably underwhelming.

The 2008 Malibu had the highest test scores ever recorded from a GM focus group.

You might want to give it 5 minutes or so on the lot when it arrives in November, before totally bashing the 'Bu.

At least that way, you can be perceived as being less biased.

[Intrepidation]

Oh, that's a most blissfully enlightening Chicken Little post of the week.

We haven't seen the Malibu yet in person and it's already behind the competition?

Your clairvoyant powers are considerably underwhelming.

The 2008 Malibu had the highest test scores ever recorded from a GM focus group.

You might want to give it 5 minutes or so on the lot when it arrives in November, before totally bashing the 'Bu.

At least that way, you can be perceived as being less biased.

Honestly, I don't think you've got room to talk when it comes to calling people bias.

The new Malibu is good, but it's got tough competition from the Accord and Mazda6. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the perception gap is still there. If you look at the attention to detail in the Accord and 6 versus the Malibu you can see that it still has work to do.

[CARBIZ]

Honestly, I don't think you've got room to talk when it comes to calling people bias.

The new Malibu is good, but it's got tough competition from the Accord and Mazda6. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the perception gap is still there. If you look at the attention to detail in the Accord and 6 versus the Malibu you can see that it still has work to do.

The car isn't even production yet! Have YOU driven one? Have YOU sat in one? Seriously, Dodgefan, you must have learned something on this site in the past couple years. How can anybody pass judgement on the Malibu when the damned thing isn't even production yet?

You don't think the GM guys haven't torn down the new Accord already? You don't think there won't be a dozen or a hundred changes between now and the next 6-8 weeks?

SHEESH. It is this defeatest atittude that is sinking Detroit, period!

Maybe the new Malibu will be a POS, but let's at least wait and drive the f'ing thing before we all chime in about what a crapbox it is.

[plane]

Honestly, I don't think you've got room to talk when it comes to calling people bias.

The new Malibu is good, but it's got tough competition from the Accord and Mazda6. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the perception gap is still there. If you look at the attention to detail in the Accord and 6 versus the Malibu you can see that it still has work to do.

Is my pro-import bias showing again?

Honestly, I think it's a bit crass to take a Honda Accord thread and in the first post turn it into a 'Bu bashing thread.

If you want to start a 'Bu Bashing Thread, by all means, have fun.

But let's give K.C. his due in his Accord thread.

Edited September 8, 2007 by plane

[plane]

SHEESH. It is this defeatest atittude that is sinking Detroit, period!

Absolutely!

Heard a live advertisement from a local Cadillac dealer yesterday.

"Come on down, we've got the great GM vehicles".

How refreshing. It was almost an epiphany. We've been so conditioned to crap on domestics, Pavlov's dogs are laughing at us.

That same day, I had lunch with a couple of ex-co-workers.

One, who is an ardent Toyota fan, remarked - Did you buy a new vehicle? It looks great!

He was looking at my 2005 GM.

Edited September 8, 2007 by plane

[regfootball]

The car isn't even production yet! Have YOU driven one? Have YOU sat in one? Seriously, Dodgefan, you must have learned something on this site in the past couple years. How can anybody pass judgement on the Malibu when the damned thing isn't even production yet?

You don't think the GM guys haven't torn down the new Accord already? You don't think there won't be a dozen or a hundred changes between now and the next 6-8 weeks?

SHEESH. It is this defeatest atittude that is sinking Detroit, period!

Maybe the new Malibu will be a POS, but let's at least wait and drive the f'ing thing before we all chime in about what a crapbox it is.

because that new avenger is so mercedes like......

[Northstar]

Honestly, I don't think you've got room to talk when it comes to calling people bias.

The new Malibu is good, but it's got tough competition from the Accord and Mazda6. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the perception gap is still there. If you look at the attention to detail in the Accord and 6 versus the Malibu you can see that it still has work to do.

I don't think the Mazda6 competes with the Malibu. Perhaps slightly, but the Mazda6 has much less bland styling, and certainly is going to drive more sporty. It is also much smaller if it's anything like the old one. It's more of what the G6 should be than what the Malibu is, I think. It's going after a different clientele like the current one than the Camcord customers.

That said, it probably is better than the Malibu, but i doubt many people will cross shop them.

[Intrepidation]

The car isn't even production yet! Have YOU driven one? Have YOU sat in one? Seriously, Dodgefan, you must have learned something on this site in the past couple years. How can anybody pass judgement on the Malibu when the damned thing isn't even production yet?

You don't think the GM guys haven't torn down the new Accord already? You don't think there won't be a dozen or a hundred changes between now and the next 6-8 weeks?

SHEESH. It is this defeatest atittude that is sinking Detroit, period!

Maybe the new Malibu will be a POS, but let's at least wait and drive the f'ing thing before we all chime in about what a crapbox it is.

Well CARBIZ, should I be thanking you for putting words in my mouth? Well allow me to stuff you with the correct ones. I never called the new Malibu a POS (the old one, you bet). I'll try elaborating for you.

• I never commented on it's driving dynamics
• I haven't commented on the materials that make up the interior
• I have said before the powertrain choices outside of the Mild Hybrid were excellent ones
• I have said before I liked the overall interior design
• I have said I liked interior colors besides the gray
• I have said I like the exterior except for the rear end

You apparently failed to read that bolded word "perception". My areas of concern/critizism lie in what I've seen. I'll point them out again:

• Too many cutlines in the dash
• Plain looking and unimaginative door panels
• Center stack that was pulled right out of the Aura (at least it's not black)

The overall design is good, but it lacks that careful attention to detail that you can see in the Accord and Mazda6. You can see it in the photos without sitting in it. While the Accord's controls may look and be complex (I don't know) and so may the Mazda6's They don't look like they were taken from another car. Someone took the time to design each aspect to be unique. There are less cutlines which makes for a cleaner look, and lots of small details are easily visible. It may be as good, but you know what they say about first impressions right?

You want to know what mentality has been killing GM, Ford, and Chrysler for many years?

"It's good enough"

It's like they stop trying 1/2 - 3/4th's of the way and leave it at that. Look at the Avenger: Aggressive design that I personally like but it admittedly needed more detail work done to it. Interior looks alright but is is cheap overall. It's no where near class leading. Fusion is great in many ways but is being denied the new 3.5 V6 and its center stack is bland and ugly. Why is it such a difficult concept to just give 100% effort and not cheap out? You need to spend money to make money. Give it 100% and you'll get better results than if you gave it 80%. Just because the Camry is sliding down the ramp in quality and design doesn't mean you can or should slack off.

You don't go trying to prove you can be the best buy not putting your best effort into it. It's not like they lack the ability to do it either...look at how good the Lambdas are and the new Vue.

Edited September 8, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Intrepidation]

because that new avenger is so mercedes like......

In the same way an Aztek is as beautiful as an Aston Marton :AH-HA_wink:

I don't think the Mazda6 competes with the Malibu. Perhaps slightly, but the Mazda6 has much less bland styling, and certainly is going to drive more sporty. It is also much smaller if it's anything like the old one. It's more of what the G6 should be than what the Malibu is, I think. It's going after a different clientele like the current one than the Camcord customers.

That said, it probably is better than the Malibu, but i doubt many people will cross shop them.

I thought it grew in size? Then again I haven't check the specs yet.

--

Sorry for hijacking your thread K.C.

Edited September 8, 2007 by Dodgefan

[A Horse With No Name]

I am going to seriously look at the 08 Malibu when it comes out. We are going to be in the market for a new car next year and while I don't like the styling quite as well as the Mazda 6 I do like the car much better than even the new Accord.

...and I do agree with Dodgefan on the good enough thing. GM is capable of building vehicles that are over the top good. Look at the STS, CTS, Corvette, The new Crossovers, etc.

They just need to go after the small car/midsize market with more heart.

Chris

[Intrepidation]

How could I forget to mention the CTS?

[CARBIZ]

Let's just wait and see before we pile on about the new Malibu, is all I am saying. Their were lots of pundits attacking the lambdas before they came out, worrying excessively that there were better offerings, but all of those opinions were largely based on vehicles that were, at best, 'stop gap' products: the current Impala, the Uplander and probably the Colorado, too. These vehicles were 'good enough,' but Lutz & Co. had their hands full with the Silverado, Tahoe and defending markets that GM does own.

Honda has always had a huge advantage in that they only had to manage (until recently) 4 or 5 models. How hard can that be? As we are seeing with Toyota, the challenges increase exponentially once more than a dozen models are being juggled.

If anything, we can resurrect the tired debate about whether GM should be killing off brands, rather than spreading the develoment money around with the G6, Aura and the upcoming Malibu. But that is a different debate.

There are too many nervous nannies waiting to pounce on GM because it would seem that GM lost its way in the mid and late '90s, but keep in mind that Lutz's toys are only now truly coming online.

I am sure GM will be putting our arses in the seats of the Camry and Honda in the next couple months to compare with the new Malibu. My paycheck relies on how good these vehicles are, so there will be no harsher critic than myself, but I am willing to cut GM some slack until I've at least driven the damned things.

Stay tuned.

[CARBIZ]

Oh, and let's drag up the Aztek again, since it went out of production over 2 years ago...that's so relevant to this discussion.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I did read AND enjoy that article... Not to mention this months C&D had a very positive slant on all things Detroit in general. It's a refreshing (yet probably shortlived) experience.

If you look at the attention to detail in the Accord and 6 versus the Malibu you can see that it still has work to do.

Whatever...

SHEESH. It is this defeatest atittude that is sinking Detroit, period!

I agree 100%... See my post about Pavlov's dogs.

I'll even go so far as to apply a psychological term to it: LEARNED HELPLESSNESS

Learned Helplessness is is a psychological condition in which a human being or an animal has learned to believe that a situation is helpless. It has come to believe that it has no control over its situation and that whatever it does is futile. As a result, the human being or the animal will stay passive in the face of an unpleasant, harmful or damaging situation, even when it does actually have the power to change its circumstances. Learned helplessness theory is the view that depression results from a perceived lack of control over the events in one's life, which may result from prior exposure to (actually or apparently) uncontrollable negative events.

Is my pro-import bias showing again?

Honestly, I think it's a bit crass to take a Honda Accord thread and in the first post turn it into a 'Bu bashing thread.

If you want to start a 'Bu Bashing Thread, by all means, have fun.

But let's give K.C. his due in his Accord thread.

Dude, don't even sweat it.. That's the same $h! everyone used to pull on me when I posted here more often.. "Bias this, bias that" Too bad it's a GM fansite!!!

Edited September 8, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Oracle of Delphi]

Oh, and let's drag up the Aztek again, since it went out of production over 2 years ago...that's so relevant to this discussion.

Almost 3 model years ago.

[bcs296]

Oh, that's a most blissfully enlightening Chicken Little post of the week.

We haven't seen the Malibu yet in person and it's already behind the competition?

Your clairvoyant powers are considerably underwhelming.

The 2008 Malibu had the highest test scores ever recorded from a GM focus group.

You might want to give it 5 minutes or so on the lot when it arrives in November, before totally bashing the 'Bu.

At least that way, you can be perceived as being less biased.

Chill out. There was no "bashing" in my post. If I wanted to, I could point out the fact that I never specifically said the Malibu would be behind the competition, but referred to GM product in general since it always takes so long to get on the road (which was the main point of my post anyway).

But yes, the Malibu is an example of that. The Camry, which will have been out for a year when the Malibu finally gets to dealer lots, will be quicker than the Malibu. It will get better mileage than the Malibu. You can get REAL navigation on a Camry and have been able to on the Accord since at least 2004. I'm sure if I spent some more time I could come up with more.

Now you don't have to get all upset. I'm for GM as much as anyone else on this site and would buy a Malibu over an Accord or Camry any day (although the Accord's 6 speed w/ V6 is appealing). I'm just pointing out why I think GM needs to start setting the benchmark a little higher, a little further into the future because it just takes them so damn long to get a product out after we see the initial design. I mean really, how much different is the 'Bu going to be from the Aura feature wise? Does it have Bluetooth? Because the Accord does.

Edited September 8, 2007 by bcs296

[regfootball]

yet the accord doesn't have remote start, a 6 speed auto, onstar, autoheadlights, or paddle shifters.

it doesn't have sync like the ford products do, either if you wanna get snippy about techie stuff.

Accord lacks AWD like ford's top sedans.

accord doesn't have HUD, either. Like GP had or still has.

Edited September 8, 2007 by regfootball

[bcs296]

Fair enough.

[K.C.]

One complaint about Honda is that they don't offer features as standard like other automakers do, especially GM. I hate that the EX-L with NAV (stupid model name, btw) doesn't have an auto dimming mirror. You must pay $360 at your dealer before installation to get that bad boy. Also, a trunk net is $100 at the dealer. That should be standard in a $30K car. No heated mirrors either. Those aren't even offered. I don't understand a car that has voice recognition for its Navigation, stereo, and HVAC functions, but not the smaller features I mentioned above. It doesn't make sense to me.

[The O.C.]

The 2008 Malibu had the highest test scores ever recorded from a GM focus group.

.....hence the potential problem with the car.....focus groups.....

[The O.C.]

The car isn't even production yet! Have YOU driven one? Have YOU sat in one? Seriously, Dodgefan, you must have learned something on this site in the past couple years. How can anybody pass judgement on the Malibu when the damned thing isn't even production yet?

No....but many of us HAVE driven an AURA and HAVE sat inside an AURA and have seen the disappointing interior fit-and-finish inside the vehicle.....attributes the Malibu all shares....

[plane]

No....but many of us HAVE driven an AURA and HAVE sat inside an AURA and have seen the excellent interior fit-and-finish inside the vehicle.....attributes the Malibu all shares....

Fixed.

Just finished driving an Aura. Nice job GM.

[plane]

.....hence the potential problem with the car.....focus groups.....

Oh, let's all throw our hands in the air and wail incessantly about a vehicle that hasn't even hit the streets.

Yeah, that's just the thing to do.

[Dsuupr]

Back to the point of the accord.

Interesting that C&D of all magazines went after the accord.

With that said, one has to wonder if the new Malibu will bring more positive attention than the new accord.

[NOS2006]

yet the accord doesn't have remote start, a 6 speed auto, autoheadlights

One would think these are but basic ingredients that have been made standard in current production vehicles. The almighty Accord lacks them?

[Flybrian]

Coming from always having/wanting/driving a domestic car, the stark lack of expected creature comforts in most Japanese vehicles is shocking. I have to again point to the Nissan Murano I had for a month. This is Nissan's big deal, end-all crossover that everyone find appealing for some reason. Aside from the Silhouette-sized dash, the single most irritating thing was this...

...a huge, glare-reflecting LCD screen that does absolutly NOTHING useful. It displayed average fuel economy for two trips, had one of those vague instant MPG bars, and had a handy 'oil life reminder' program that required you put in the mileage and when you wanted to change the oil (3, 6, 9, 12k miles). If I have to input that info and I'm not the engine, how is it an oil life reminder? More like a rudimentary calendar with less usefulness than my Casio digital watch.

I get back into my decade-old Olds and I have a fully-informational driver's info center in a thin, easy-to-read, non-glare dot matrix display that displays 20 functions, 60 warnings, and occupies a space a little wider than a business card with buttons that are hidden when not in use.

Where is the true innovation? Sorry, jamming a moving map display into a dash and reducing overall functionality for occasional usage is not innovation. Where's the safety of a heads-up display? Where is the air compressor in the trunk so I can air up my own tires? Where are the automatic headlamps? Twilight Sentinal? Electrochromic mirrors? Reverse-dipping passenger mirror? Its not in most of the cars from Asia and if it is, it isn't affordable.

[pow]

Oh, that's a most blissfully enlightening Chicken Little post of the week.

We haven't seen the Malibu yet in person and it's already behind the competition?

Your clairvoyant powers are considerably underwhelming.

The 2008 Malibu had the highest test scores ever recorded from a GM focus group.

You might want to give it 5 minutes or so on the lot when it arrives in November, before totally bashing the 'Bu.

At least that way, you can be perceived as being less biased.

I've been in the new Malibu "in person" and color me unimpressed. It looks fantastic from the outside (LTZ), but other than that, there is nothing wholly remarkable about it. It shares many of the AURA's faults: the similarly chintzy interior, the same narrowness, and the same awkward rear seats. But like the AURA, it's competitive and priced less than its first-tier rivals.

[CARBIZ]

I've been in the new Malibu "in person" and color me unimpressed. It looks fantastic from the outside (LTZ), but other than that, there is nothing wholly remarkable about it. It shares many of the AURA's faults: the similarly chintzy interior, the same narrowness, and the same awkward rear seats. But like the AURA, it's competitive and priced less than its first-tier rivals.

Let's wait for a true, full production vehicle that you can BUY and then we can all pile on. The reason for the production of all these 'mules' is to test reaction, to throw the competition off, and to get the usual Detroit bashers to expend all their bile before the consumers can actually get the cars.

And can I say, just for the record, that renting a damned car for a few days is not quite the same thing as OWNING one. I drive the current Malibu all the time, both brand new (less than 5 miles on them) and 2007 'daily rentals' with 10,000 miles on them just returned, and I can say from driving many,many of these damned cars, that I would stack them up to the f'ing Sonata any day of the week. (we have one of those on the lot now, too.)

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Coming from always having/wanting/driving a domestic car, the stark lack of expected creature comforts in most Japanese vehicles is shocking. I have to again point to the Nissan Murano I had for a month. This is Nissan's big deal, end-all crossover that everyone find appealing for some reason. Aside from the Silhouette-sized dash, the single most irritating thing was this...

...a huge, glare-reflecting LCD screen that does absolutly NOTHING useful. It displayed average fuel economy for two trips, had one of those vague instant MPG bars, and had a handy 'oil life reminder' program that required you put in the mileage and when you wanted to change the oil (3, 6, 9, 12k miles). If I have to input that info and I'm not the engine, how is it an oil life reminder? More like a rudimentary calendar with less usefulness than my Casio digital watch.

I get back into my decade-old Olds and I have a fully-informational driver's info center in a thin, easy-to-read, non-glare dot matrix display that displays 20 functions, 60 warnings, and occupies a space a little wider than a business card with buttons that are hidden when not in use.

Where is the true innovation? Sorry, jamming a moving map display into a dash and reducing overall functionality for occasional usage is not innovation. Where's the safety of a heads-up display? Where is the air compressor in the trunk so I can air up my own tires? Where are the automatic headlamps? Twilight Sentinal? Electrochromic mirrors? Reverse-dipping passenger mirror? Its not in most of the cars from Asia and if it is, it isn't affordable.

I agree...

Sadly it seems that GM has been getting away from it's interior innovation because 1) No one seems to care because the import bias is too big (Journalists) or 2) No one even notices and takes it for granted.

I had the same experience in that Camry I rented back in the day. It almost felt like a technological downgrade from the GM vehicles I've driven and it was extremely hard to get past the fact that the center console DID NOT LINE UP with the dash! How much more flawed can this supposedly "Perfect, top knotch" car be before people begin to open their eyes?

[Intrepidation]

Oh, and let's drag up the Aztek again, since it went out of production over 2 years ago...that's so relevant to this discussion.

I cold change it to G6 GXP if you prefer. You obviously missed the point of that comment (shockingly) but it's too small to be worth arguing about.

Whatever...

If you can see the obvious faults then you have sight issues, and if you can't see them even after I pointed them out then I don't know what to tell you. I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but it probably falls on deaf ears anyway. It's about perception. Even if the Malibu is a better car overall, if there are flaws that aren't that significant yet they are plainly obvious, a person, especially an import buyer, will be inclined to notice them right away, and be turned off by it. GM wants to make many conquest buys not just appeal to the same set of domestic buyers.

FYI: the amount of cutline in the dash can be an issue because that means more places that rattles and squeaks have the potential to form down the line.

I agree 100%... See my post about Pavlov's dogs.

I'll even go so far as to apply a psychological term to it: LEARNED HELPLESSNESS

Learned Helplessness is is a psychological condition in which a human being or an animal has learned to believe that a situation is helpless. It has come to believe that it has no control over its situation and that whatever it does is futile. As a result, the human being or the animal will stay passive in the face of an unpleasant, harmful or damaging situation, even when it does actually have the power to change its circumstances. Learned helplessness theory is the view that depression results from a perceived lack of control over the events in one's life, which may result from prior exposure to (actually or apparently) uncontrollable negative events.

Dude, don't even sweat it.. That's the same $h! everyone used to pull on me when I posted here more often.. "Bias this, bias that" Too bad it's a GM fansite!!!

Right...so what would be the term for "not giving it 100% and calling it good enough" but then choose to ignore that very, very valid point?

[Drew Dowdell]

FYI: the amount of cutline in the dash can be an issue because that means more places that rattles and squeaks have the potential to form down the line.

Right...so what would be the term for "not giving it 100% and calling it good enough" but then choose to ignore that very, very valid point?

What if GM found a way to avoid the problem you mention. It was brought up as a concern on the '08 CTS and yet all of the reviews I've seen have been positive.

[Intrepidation]

What if GM found a way to avoid the problem you mention. It was brought up as a concern on the '08 CTS and yet all of the reviews I've seen have been positive.

I don't recalled those concerns, and I don't see any shortcomings of the car. Every aspect was designed with careful attention to detail (they even bragged about it...notice how there's no bragging about that with the Malibu). I personally think 100% effort was put into the CTS and the payoffs have been great reviews and hopefully increased sales. Why can't GM put the kind of effort into teh CTS they put into every car? Granted, I don't expect the Malibu to be lined entirely of leather but you know what I mean.

Why can't Ford and Chrysler put that much effort into their cars as was done with the CTS as well?