Buick blitz in '08

[buickguy]

Heard a rumor that next year GM will unveil 3 new models for Buick:

1. the new 2010 LaCrosse/Regal

2. a Riviera production car

3. a smaller sedan

[buickguy]

A dealer who I know told me he and other dealers went nuts over the Riviera and asked GM to "make it happen." I'm not sure how much influence they have, but if they killed the Park Avenue from China maybe they can get the Riviera.

[Drew Dowdell]

A dealer who I know told me he and other dealers went nuts over the Riviera and asked GM to "make it happen." I'm not sure how much influence they have, but if they killed the Park Avenue from China maybe they can get the Riviera.

which only proves their stupidity....

[K.C.]

X 2

[Northstar]

I assume the LaCrosse will be unveiled at the '08 NY show. NAIAS would be too early.

Riveria and a small sedan are pipe dreams at this point, especially for an '08 unveiling.

[VenSeattle]

I assume the LaCrosse will be unveiled at the '08 NY show. NAIAS would be too early.

Riveria and a small sedan are pipe dreams at this point, especially for an '08 unveiling.

I thought the new Chinese Buick compact goes on sale in China as a 2009 model? If GM decides to import it, why would it not be available to debut at a US Auto Show in 2008?

[thegriffon]

there's always LA in late '08.

[Paolino]

I don't think they should wait too late... only because they drummed up so much excitement with the Enclave... then the Riviera Concept... keep the ball rolling. While people still have visions of some new cool Buicks semi-fresh in the brains, strike them with another. Keep the ball rolling and maybe the perception of the brand will just start to change.

[Camino LS6]

If they do a Riviera, I'd hope that it looks more like the Velite than that ugly Chinese showcar Riviera.

[donpella]

I agree, since they have an attention getter with the Enclave, they should keep the fire coming. It's could almost be like starting a new brand. The products have to be world class performance and design wise, though. A world-class big body coupe such as the Riviera, could spark interest. Style,class, and moderate performance can generate interest because there is no competition in the segment. The only competition would be the Mercedes Benz CL and BMW 6 Seriers, but they wouldn't be considered competition because they are way more expensive to compete. A small car is iffy in my opinion, but if they do it, why not use the Cadillacs Sigma platform. It's a great platform, why kill it, us it for they next Regal or something. The Lucearn is cool, for those that love FWD, but that Park Avenue is what they need, just restyle it to match the enclave to make it not appear like a longer G8.

So what would we have? If Buick is supposed to be the American Lexus

1. Park Avenue (restlyed to match Enclave) - Lexus Ls Fighter

2.Lucerne (shrink it a little, it's still on the G-body platform so it can be done, plus its still FWD) - Lexus Es Fighter

3. Regal or La Crosse(I like the name Regal better, and I would also put it on the Sigma platform) - Lexus Gs Fighter

4.The Riviera (CL-Class luxury at a bargain price) - Lexus Sc Fighter

5.Enclave

[Paolino]

I agree, since they have an attention getter with the Enclave, they should keep the fire coming. It's could almost be like starting a new brand. The products have to be world class performance and design wise, though. A world-class big body coupe such as the Riviera, could spark interest. Style,class, and moderate performance can generate interest because there is no competition in the segment. The only competition would be the Mercedes Benz CL and BMW 6 Seriers, but they wouldn't be considered competition because they are way more expensive to compete. A small car is iffy in my opinion, but if they do it, why not use the Cadillacs Sigma platform. It's a great platform, why kill it, us it for they next Regal or something. The Lucearn is cool, for those that love FWD, but that Park Avenue is what they need, just restyle it to match the enclave to make it not appear like a longer G8.

So what would we have? If Buick is supposed to be the American Lexus

1. Park Avenue (restlyed to match Enclave) - Lexus Ls Fighter

2.Lucerne (shrink it a little, it's still on the G-body platform so it can be done, plus its still FWD) - Lexus Es Fighter

3. Regal or La Crosse(I like the name Regal better, and I would also put it on the Sigma platform) - Lexus Gs Fighter

4.The Riviera (CL-Class luxury at a bargain price) - Lexus Sc Fighter

5.Enclave

Well, let's get realistic... Buick will not have a true LS fighter anytime soon. Nor an SC or GS fighter. They need to take baby steps... there's no way Buick is jumping into 60-100,000 territory soon, nor are they going to offer cars that have the many features the LS has. It wouldn't make sense... they would never win over so many people so fast. The Enclave was a wonderful start, and it'll do well against the RX, but I still don't look at it as luxurious as an RX. And maybe that is just perception, but I saw my first one on the road today, and although it's nice-looking, it really didn't blow me away like the pictures did.

[buick59]

For what it's worth, I was at my BPG dealer today with my Enclave and spoke with the sales manager who was at a GM meeting last week and I asked him about the following products. 1) The G8 ----comment was "it's a hot looking car and production started this week. Should be at dealers in DEC-JAN. 2) the rumour of the Aussie Ute coming here as an El Camino----comment "nothing was said about it" 3)the new Lacrosse-----comment"you are really going to like this car" with a big smile on his face. 4)the Riviera concept-----comment"I can't comment on this at his time" said it with a very sly look on his face. and 5) the Chinese Park Ave. Same comment as the Riviera. So I wonder what this means if anything. He did not say NO to the Riv and PA so who knows.

[cire]

Great news if it's true! I can't wait to see all three. I hope GM does this historic brand justice with these new products. From the little I have seen and read so far, I have high hopes.

I believe GM will keep the compact and midsize sedans front wheel drive (offering all wheel drive would be a nice upgrade for these cars).

The large sedan is supposed to be rear wheel drive. I wonder if they should also keep a large front wheel drive sedan in the lineup for the traditional dedicated Buick customer who has become accustomed and may actually prefer a large front wheel drive sedan. I know Buick is trying to capture a younger demographic, but is it wise to totally ignore a demographic that has kept the brand alive in the U.S. for so long? Maybe they should position the large rear wheel drive sedan as the flagship model and have the large front wheel drive sedan positioned a step lower for the traditional mature Buick loyalist (all wheel drive will be a nice upgrade for this car also). The only problem is where to find the platform. With the Cadillac DTS going out of production (which it really should; I believe this car damages Cadillac's aspirations), there will no longer be a platform mate for a large front wheel drive Buick. I would look into the demographics to see if there is a tangible case to keep a large front wheel drive car for Buick. Customers who prefer this format will only have the Toyota Avalon, Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable/Lincoln MKS, and Hyundai Azera/Kia Amanti to shop in this segment.

I think the next Riviera should also be a rear wheel drive model. It could give Buick more of a luxury/performance image to lure in a younger demographic.

I also would like to see Buick get a smaller five seat crossover to compliment the Enclave.

Basically, this is how I see a future Buick lineup:

* Skylark or Century: compact FWD/AWD drive sedan.

* Regal: midsize FWD/AWD drive sedan.

* LeSabre or Lucerne: large FWD/AWD sedan (if there is a market to keep it).

* Park Avenue or Electra: large RWD flagship sedan.

* Riviera: RWD coupe and convertible.

* Rendezvous or Rainier: midsize FWD/AWD crossover (redesigned on the Theta platform with "mini-Enclave" styling).

* Enclave: large FWD/AWD crossover.

It will be interesting to see what unfolds. I would love to see a Buick renaissance in the United States.

Edited September 8, 2007 by cire

[Northstar]

I thought the new Chinese Buick compact goes on sale in China as a 2009 model? If GM decides to import it, why would it not be available to debut at a US Auto Show in 2008?

The Chinese Buick on Delta goes on sale in 2009.

[Dsuupr]

I just hope GM gives Buick the Hybrid editions like the other divisions. It would be a huge hit with the baby boomers.

[VenSeattle]

The Chinese Buick on Delta goes on sale in 2009.

That's actually what I meant... If the vehicle goes on sale in 2009, when would you expect the unveiling? 2008... correct? It could be unveiled in the US and China simultaneously or at different shows in the same year. That was my point.

[Northstar]

That's actually what I meant... If the vehicle goes on sale in 2009, when would you expect the unveiling? 2008... correct? It could be unveiled in the US and China simultaneously or at different shows in the same year. That was my point.

When is the Chinese show? The car goes into production in late 09, so I would expect an introduction in early-mid 2009. It could happen, but there is no solid info that suggests that we are getting a Buick Delta. If GM decides to start producing NA-bound Buick Delta's at the same time they are going to China, I suspect they'd be produced in China.

Again, though, I would bet good money that we won't be seeing a Buick Delta here until at least the 2012 MY.

[titan]

The Enclave was a wonderful start, and it'll do well against the RX, but I still don't look at it as luxurious as an RX. And maybe that is just perception, but I saw my first one on the road today, and although it's nice-looking, it really didn't blow me away like the pictures did.

I agree with you half way. I saw a cocoa Enclave with the 20" chromed wheels and it absolutely blew me away. I must have driven in front of the house three or four times (the owners must have thought I was a stalker, lol). The interior is a tad of a let down. I think the design, layout, and fit and finish are great. BUT... the lack of GENUINE wood really, really nags me. IMO, it's the one glaring area of the interior that falls (and falls far) when compared to the Lexus.

[Ravenfreak13]

Electra and Invicta would be much better names for new models...

[Drew Dowdell]

Electra should be the trim line name for any Buick hybrid. Along the lines of Saturn's Green-line.

[wildcat]

Oldsmoboi: I agree, a perfect name!

[VenSeattle]

Electra and Invicta would be much better names for new models...

Unfortunately, neither would be appropriate for an entry-level Buick sedan.

[VenSeattle]

Electra should be the trim line name for any Buick hybrid. Along the lines of Saturn's Green-line.

My preference for Buick trim levels:

luxury - Reserve

Sport - Super

Hybrid - en Suite

However, Considering Super has been both a model and trim level, Electra could possibly be used in the same manner. I think Buick fans would become extremely upset over this... But, just to go along with Oldsmoboi's idea:

Luxury - Super

Performance/Sport - Wildcat

Hybrid - Electra

So all Buicks would come off the line as a near fully-loaded "Super" model with limited options/dealer-installed accessories.

Wildcat would be Buick's Redline

Electra could be Buick's Greenline

[Windy-57]

I don't think they should wait too late... only because they drummed up so much excitement with the Enclave... then the Riviera Concept... keep the ball rolling. While people still have visions of some new cool Buicks semi-fresh in the brains, strike them with another. Keep the ball rolling and maybe the perception of the brand will just start to change.

I partially disagree. The fact is that the only people who will know what the heck is going on at the auto shows are industry-involved people and unveiling a bunch of concepts or future production models won't do much to continue on the Enclave's momentum in the mind of the general public. However, for the industry folk, the best thing they could do is drag this out. Rather than exploding and showing how Buick is going to be awesome and then letting that excitement dissipate over the ensuing 5 yrs., they should show their new stuff over time and slowly build and maintain the momentum.

which only proves their stupidity....

I don't know about that. I know everybody here is a big fan of that car (and it is excellent), but if you read the DTS FWD or RWD argument for a bit, you can really see that there is a market for a large premium FWD sedan like the current Lucerne...a market GM will completely vacate if the Lucerne goes RWD.

Electra should be the trim line name for any Buick hybrid. Along the lines of Saturn's Green-line.

Yes, love it. This name would be immediately associated with hybrid and still have the "quiet luxury" essence of Buick...perfect.

[Cananopie]

I agree with you half way. I saw a cocoa Enclave with the 20" chromed wheels and it absolutely blew me away. I must have driven in front of the house three or four times (the owners must have thought I was a stalker, lol). The interior is a tad of a let down. I think the design, layout, and fit and finish are great. BUT... the lack of GENUINE wood really, really nags me. IMO, it's the one glaring area of the interior that falls (and falls far) when compared to the Lexus.

This argument on the lack of "genuine" wood really kills me because illegal logging has just reached new highs because of the demand of wood across the globe. The reason these alternative fuels are being sought is because of their impact on the environment and the fact that many of these resources are non-renewable. While trees are renewable, they are not renewable at a rate that we are cutting them down. They also are happy to breathe in the carbon dioxide we create, and they also happen to $h! us their oxygen. We have to understand, as a planet, that we are working on a global scale, and that we can't just take things anymore just because it will please some petty desire.

There are a few things going for faux-wood to the point where I'd love to take anyone who needs real wood, and see if they can tell with random samples whether it was used or not. While I have not done this study or know of anyone that has, I believe it'd take a true arborist the be able to tell the difference between real and fake wood. I wonder how many people would be satisfied (if the automaker couldn't get sued) if they just claimed real wood but used fake... my bet is 100%. This isn't the 80s anymore, the wood isn't made out of wallpaper and the design isn't cringe-worthy anymore. Real wood is smoothed to the same feel as plastic and then treated in such a way that you can't scratch or ruin it on accident. Whether it is real or fake you aren't really touching the wood insomuch as you're touching the protectorate of the wood. Faux-wood can still give the same haughty atmosphere the real-wooders desire. The argument of needing real wood is akin to the argument of demanding real rubber for your tires, instead of the decades-used synthetic rubber.

In the end, one might argue, it's the natural beauty of real wood that will really bring a giant hunk of steel and plastic to beauty. However, it's the 21st century and we need to start thinking globally and wisely. Killing old, thick, sturdy, life-giving trees for petty pleasure (and upping the price of a Buick no-less) is a thing we must put in our past strictly for our future interest. I myself would love to see Buick back in the business of making their own engines, however I understand that GM was thinking globally, only their motive was simply profit. The motive of no-real-wood in cars is just one so that the rampant logging industry has one less reason to tear apart our Earth.

I feel by taking this stance many people would dismiss it as environmental extremism. But I simply use logic and reason when understanding trees give us our oxygen, give us a rich diverse environment to keep our planet stable, and provide many beneficial services that the desires of pride should stand down. Just get huge flat screen tv to impress your friends instead.

Edited September 21, 2007 by Cananopie

[caddycruiser]

At least on the wood...

When we drove a Saturn Outlook XR last week, my mother (not a wood-anything fan, in a car) looked at the wood and said "just cheap plastic?". Later, we drove the Enclave, and without me saying anything, aside from the rest of her astounding reaction to the differences in how it drove and felt--SO much higher grade than the GMC & Saturn, somehow--was "Is that wood all real?" I said the wheel was, but the dash wasn't, and in least in the black cloth interior we were in, neither she nor I could tell the difference.

So, I still prefer no wood overall, but in most cases, GM does the fake stuff quite well, and in cases like the Enclave, it really looks natural and fitting like you would expect real pieces to--if you weren't fooled in the first place, like she was.

---------------------------------------

NOW, keep improving it each year in various ways, all around, and it'll continue to be a big success. Oh, and finally get a fresh, new sedan lineup out there taking all the best things that make an Enclave great, and they'll be set. The Lucerne is still very nice--still a big fan--but not as much of a standout as it needs to be, and the Lacrosse is just too humpty-dumpty & old. Some interesting details, and a nice outside size and such (but ancient W-body cramped inside), but really just an old, needs to be replaced yesterday sedan.

Two new sedans, maybe a luxury coupe (but I completely understand staying away from what is, really, a limited market), the Enclave, and a baby Enclave...

Edited September 21, 2007 by caddycruiser

[vonVeezelsnider]

I Think that the Delta Buick should be called 'Special'... Second Choice, Skylark.

The Hybrid should be called Electra

Invicta isn't appropriate though.

As long as it's not called 'Excelle'!

This or the Regal could Replace the Cavalier in a few years...

[Cananopie]

So, I still prefer no wood overall, but in most cases, GM does the fake stuff quite well, and in cases like the Enclave, it really looks natural and fitting like you would expect real pieces to--if you weren't fooled in the first place, like she was.

---------------------------------------

NOW, keep improving it each year in various ways, all around, and it'll continue to be a big success.

Exactly. Just like real rubber tires, real engines made by the company, real wood should, for the sake of the planet, become a thing of the past. Nothing is truly being lost if the above action is taken.

[Drew Dowdell]

I partially disagree. The fact is that the only people who will know what the heck is going on at the auto shows are industry-involved people and unveiling a bunch of concepts or future production models won't do much to continue on the Enclave's momentum in the mind of the general public. However, for the industry folk, the best thing they could do is drag this out. Rather than exploding and showing how Buick is going to be awesome and then letting that excitement dissipate over the ensuing 5 yrs., they should show their new stuff over time and slowly build and maintain the momentum.

I don't know about that. I know everybody here is a big fan of that car (and it is excellent), but if you read the DTS FWD or RWD argument for a bit, you can really see that there is a market for a large premium FWD sedan like the current Lucerne...a market GM will completely vacate if the Lucerne goes RWD.

I would have suggested that they keep the Lucerne and position the Zeta Park Ave above it. The Chinese version would certainly be more premium than even a top of the line Lucerne.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

For me, Delta Buick=Skyhawk. Keep Excelle in China or kill it! Make Skylark a cut-price, higher style, higher-power, more-room type of BMW 3-Series.

My trim lines would be Reserve (replacing CXS; CX/CXL would be dropped; velour and/or front split-bench seat would be standard or no-charge options on the LaCrosse/Lucerne successors if buyers didn't want leather and/or bucket seats); Super (same, model depending), and maybe Limited and Ultra in the Lucerne's case, and maybe GS if there's room, again model depending.