Want to know when you can purchase a new CTS-V?

[Northstar]

Expect them to be on lots in late September of next year. Also, I'm sure many will be happy to know, the transmission is not a Tremec, but rather something that at least the magazines would like better. :AH-HA_wink:

Finally, final drive ratio is a bit taller than the old T56.

[Sixty8panther]

I hope it remains MANUAL only.

The V-series cars should ALL have three pedals.

[intrigued]

I've already heard that there will be a paddle shift manumatic as an option. So what? Most AMG's are auto. It's not like there will ONLY be auto and no choice for a manual. It caters to a broader customer base

[jbartley]

I've already heard that there will be a paddle shift manumatic as an option. So what? Most AMG's are auto. It's not like there will ONLY be auto and no choice for a manual. It caters to a broader customer base

excellent news. only having a manual is dumb!

[Z-06]

I've already heard that there will be a paddle shift manumatic as an option. So what? Most AMG's are auto. It's not like there will ONLY be auto and no choice for a manual. It caters to a broader customer base

That is why AMG will never get hardcore enthusiasts, but me-too mentality people buying their cars to show off. Remember, BMW put 6-speed tranny as an after thought after customers denied buying the 7-speed SMG.

[ZL-1]

Expect them to be on lots in late September of next year. Also, I'm sure many will be happy to know, the transmission is not a Tremec, but rather something that at least the magazines would like better.

Getrag manual? Dual clutch transmission like VW's DSG?

I wouldn't mind seeing a conventional automatic transmission in there as an option as well.

Edited September 5, 2007 by ZL-1

[pow]

That is why AMG will never get hardcore enthusiasts, but me-too mentality people buying their cars to show off. Remember, BMW put 6-speed tranny as an after thought after customers denied buying the 7-speed SMG.

The mismatched six-speed manual is only for North Americans who think a "stick" is "sporty" and "cool." The Germans, who see Grandma Schmitzes in manual Golf diesels all the time, are probably scratching their heads.

An automatic for the CTS-V is fine. It's not a hardcore race car, but an insanely-fast sports sedan.

[bowtie_dude]

The mismatched six-speed manual is only for North Americans who think a "stick" is "sporty" and "cool." The Germans, who see Grandma Schmitzes in manual Golf diesels all the time, are probably scratching their heads.

An automatic for the CTS-V is fine. It's not a hardcore race car, but an insanely-fast sports sedan.

A stick doesn't make my Crapalier any sportier or cooler, just a helluva lot better to drive. Automatics suck. SMGs, despite how advanced and manual-like (like being the operative word here) they may be are still no substitute for a good ol' fashioned gated manual shifter in my book.

[ctsls7]

well having a auto wouldn't hurt. i like maul but i think the way they make the rearend in these cars are weak. how many rear end they replace in the ctsv auto will make the rear last long. gm give you all this power and cheap out on the rearends.]

[emh]

That is why AMG will never get hardcore enthusiasts, but me-too mentality people buying their cars to show off. Remember, BMW put 6-speed tranny as an after thought after customers denied buying the 7-speed SMG.

People who want to show off ARE the market for V, M, and AMG cars for the most part. An auto is a good thing as long as the manual also is available. The "hardcore enthusiasts" are buying Boxsters, Corvettes, 911s etc.

[zete]

Rowing my car no longer appeals to me. I'd prefer a semi-automatic. Of course, by offering a choice GM gets to keep both factions happy, not just those willing to row their car home through traffic on a daily basis.

[Robert Hall]

Rowing my car no longer appeals to me. I'd prefer a semi-automatic. Of course, by offering a choice GM gets to keep both factions happy, not just those willing to row their car home through traffic on a daily basis.

Same here... I love a manual for a weekend toy for driving on twisty backroads, but in the Real World <tm> of the daily commute, with traffic lights, congested freeways, etc. I prefer an automatic.

[smk4565]

They should do manual and automatic then no buyer's preference is left out. I'd like to see something between the 300 hp engine and the 500 hp engine also. I hope the CTS-V doesn't get even heavier than the 4000 lbs the car already weighs. The STS-V gained 200 pounds over the V8 STS. GM should focus more on weight reduction to get performance, rather than just enlarging an pushrod V8 and getting more power. Speaking of which, no Cadillac car should ever have a pushrod engine, but I know the CTS-V will get one and we'll hear about how it was cost effective.

[Camino LS6]

They should do manual and automatic then no buyer's preference is left out. I'd like to see something between the 300 hp engine and the 500 hp engine also. I hope the CTS-V doesn't get even heavier than the 4000 lbs the car already weighs. The STS-V gained 200 pounds over the V8 STS. GM should focus more on weight reduction to get performance, rather than just enlarging an pushrod V8 and getting more power. Speaking of which, no Cadillac car should ever have a pushrod engine, but I know the CTS-V will get one and we'll hear about how it was cost effective.

That is an absurd position to take.

[Flybrian]

That is an absurd position to take.

No, its not. Cadillac should "surpass and become the benchmark" by using the same kind of powertrains their competion uses, regardless of their capabilities or performance. Makes sense.

[Northstar]

Getrag manual? Dual clutch transmission like VW's DSG?

I wouldn't mind seeing a conventional automatic transmission in there as an option as well.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

[pow]

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

I remember the days (actually, just two years ago) when GM advertised how the Sunfire had a Getrag 5-speed, "the same company who does Porsches!"

[bowtie_dude]

I remember the days (actually, just two years ago) when GM advertised how the Sunfire had a Getrag 5-speed, "the same company who does Porsches!"

So shifting gears in my Crapalier is much like shifting gears in a Porsche?

[K.C.]

I agree that Cadillac should reduce the weight of their vehicles through advanced materials, but they should also give more power with each generation and increased high technology.

That being said, I love that the V comes with a big pushrod engine. I like brute power in my performance sedan, I don't know about anyone else.

[ZL-1]

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner.

Do I get a cookie?

Did I win with the Getrag or with the DSG guess?

Edited September 6, 2007 by ZL-1

[Camino LS6]

I agree that Cadillac should reduce the weight of their vehicles through advanced materials, but they should also give more power with each generation and increased high technology.

That being said, I love that the V comes with a big pushrod engine. I like brute power in my performance sedan, I don't know about anyone else.

Pushrod engines have a number of advantages and no one does them better than GM. Witness the Zo6.

[Camino LS6]

If you think that the pushrod engine is somehow a lesser powerplant, you should read this excellent thread.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=15551

[RJB]

Or how about this little juicy tidbit? Focus on the h.p. numbers in the article.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=19552

[Z-06]

I never can accept the comment of Pushrod being antiquated.

It is just a different way to produce power and get fuel economy.

With DI pushrods just got an elixir. With the amount of technology gone in the pushrod LS7, that will put the AMG63 in shame. Who cares if the displacement is more for the same amount of power. Can any of the cars wearing the AMG63 with their better 7-speed give better fuel economy than the Corvette? Heck they are not even close to getting the gas-guzzler tax off their asses.

And if you compare the weight. That BMW 4.0l V-8 seen in the M3 with all the sumptuous weight saving weighs about 199kg while the LS7 weighs 243kg. Now here is the corker, the displacement of the LS7 is 175% more than the M3 mill.

To me the argument of Pushrod being old and non technology oriented is like the myth that Turd is the best truck ever built.

[Drew Dowdell]

The mismatched six-speed manual is only for North Americans who think a "stick" is "sporty" and "cool." The Germans, who see Grandma Schmitzes in manual Golf diesels all the time, are probably scratching their heads.

[EMan]

The mismatched six-speed manual is only for North Americans who think a "stick" is "sporty" and "cool." The Germans, who see Grandma Schmitzes in manual Golf diesels all the time, are probably scratching their heads.

An automatic for the CTS-V is fine. It's not a hardcore race car, but an insanely-fast sports sedan.

+1

I also agree that some type of Auto is needed on the V.

[Northstar]

Do I get a cookie?

Did I win with the Getrag or with the DSG guess?

Getrag. Some issues are still being ironed out, but that is the plan. I sure hope they do get the issues ironed out, and I think they probably will.

[ZL-1]

Getrag. Some issues are still being ironed out, but that is the plan. I sure hope they do get the issues ironed out, and I think they probably will.

Getrag gearboxes have great reputation. This is good.

[EMan]

6 or 7 speed?

[aldw]

If you think that the pushrod engine is somehow a lesser powerplant, you should read this excellent thread.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=15551

Still, those who prefer to have high-output DOHC engines should be allowed to have them, as they are still the larger part of the market.

[Northstar]

6 or 7 speed?

I don't know, but I would assume 6. A 7-speed manual seems dumb.

[smk4565]

Pushrods have too many disadvantages, like needing huge displacement to make power, harshness, vibration, noise. They can't get away with that on a luxury car. Notice they couldn't get away with it on a Malibu, it won't work on a Cadillac.

Lexus is doing a V10, Audi has a turbo V10, BMW is working on a turbo V10, the level of technology in those engines is really high, people will pay the premium for high tech stuff, the pushrod offers nothing special to buyers like that.

[Northstar]

Pushrods have too many disadvantages, like needing huge displacement to make power, harshness, vibration, noise. They can't get away with that on a luxury car. Notice they couldn't get away with it on a Malibu, it won't work on a Cadillac.

Lexus is doing a V10, Audi has a turbo V10, BMW is working on a turbo V10, the level of technology in those engines is really high, people will pay the premium for high tech stuff, the pushrod offers nothing special to buyers like that.

Lexus is not dropping a V10 into the IS, BMW is not dropping a turbo V10 into the 3er, and Audi is not dropping a turbo V10 into the RS4. Their V10s are going to cost a hefty amount more than the CTS-V.

You've obviously never driven an LSx engine because they aren't harsh, don't have vibrations, and the only noise they make is sweet tailpipe music. Comparing the Malibu engine to an LSx is like comparing a donkey to a thoroughbred. You never hear the reviews of the Corvette/CTS-V/GTO say "the engine is powerful, but harsh and it has many vibrations," so stop spewing BS.

[Drew Dowdell]

Pushrods have too many disadvantages, like needing huge displacement to make power, harshness, vibration, noise. They can't get away with that on a luxury car.

A 1996 Buick Roadmaster could creep up behind you and eat you before you knew it was there while at the same time providing 27mpg highway, 5,000lb tow rating, and enough power that police cars used the same drivetrain and many officers would still trade a new Crown Vic for an old Caprice.

That is 15 year old technology.... don't say it couldn't be done today.

[Drew Dowdell]

Pushrods have too many disadvantages, like needing huge displacement to make power

also: Power/litre is a red herring.

I could just as easily say

DOHC engines have too many disadvantages, like needing a huge physical space for a relatively small displacement

[smk4565]

Lexus is not dropping a V10 into the IS, BMW is not dropping a turbo V10 into the 3er, and Audi is not dropping a turbo V10 into the RS4. Their V10s are going to cost a hefty amount more than the CTS-V.

You've obviously never driven an LSx engine because they aren't harsh, don't have vibrations, and the only noise they make is sweet tailpipe music. Comparing the Malibu engine to an LSx is like comparing a donkey to a thoroughbred. You never hear the reviews of the Corvette/CTS-V/GTO say "the engine is powerful, but harsh and it has many vibrations," so stop spewing BS.

The IS, M3, RS4 are also much smaller than the CTS, they don't need as much power to move. A friend of mine has a Corvette, it is pretty loud, especially the exhaust. Sports cars are generally loud though, so it doesn't matter, luxury cars are quiet and smooth.

Cadillac at some point has to make a small car, and make the CTS-sized car their middle car and price it with other middle cars. They can't leave the 5-series/E-class market vacant forever, and when they move in to it, they can't have a pushrod. Really it doesn't matter to me what they do with the CTS-V, I doubt I'd ever buy one anyway, I'd take a DOHC V8 making 370 hp over a 500-600 pushrod any day, and I'd pay $2000 extra for the DOHC with less power.

[Drew Dowdell]

Really it doesn't matter to me what they do with the CTS-V, I doubt I'd ever buy one anyway, I'd take a DOHC V8 making 370 hp over a 500-600 pushrod any day, and I'd pay $2000 extra for the DOHC with less power.

Have you actually driven a CTS-V? Even the old one? You automatically disqualify it simply for it's valvetrain layout without actually driving it, compairing it's performance, and comparing it's price......... then you deserve to have to bend over for the BMW dealer both at purchase time and service time.

He won't use lube.

[Northstar]

The IS, M3, RS4 are also much smaller than the CTS, they don't need as much power to move. A friend of mine has a Corvette, it is pretty loud, especially the exhaust. Sports cars are generally loud though, so it doesn't matter, luxury cars are quiet and smooth.

Cadillac at some point has to make a small car, and make the CTS-sized car their middle car and price it with other middle cars. They can't leave the 5-series/E-class market vacant forever, and when they move in to it, they can't have a pushrod. Really it doesn't matter to me what they do with the CTS-V, I doubt I'd ever buy one anyway, I'd take a DOHC V8 making 370 hp over a 500-600 pushrod any day, and I'd pay $2000 extra for the DOHC with less power.

So what if they're smaller? They're in the same price range, so why aren't you complaining that they don't have V10s with such amazing technology? Do you even realize the class the CTS-V is in is all about sport? Sure, there's added luxury, but those cars are really 4-door sports cars with nice interiors. If you want the quietness, get the top non-performance model. The RS4 howls. The loudness is only because of the exhaust, not because the engine is unrefined. There are such things as unrefined DOHC engines too, you know. That doesn't make every DOHC engine unrefined, though. Using basic logic, the unrefined V6s don't make the LSx engines unrefined just because they're pushrods

If it doesn't matter what they do with the CTS-V to you, why are you complaining about what engine it has?

You say you'd take a 370HP DOHC V8 over the 500-600HP OHV V8, but you obviously aren't into the sports-cars-with-four-doors class anyways.

[smk4565]

I never drove a CTS-V, only the V6 version. I hope to drive the 08 cts tomorrow. I know several people with GM pushrods, I used to own one, I have never experienced a GM pushrod as good as a DOHC V8 engine. Cadillac is the only luxury brand that uses a pushrod engine aside from the Bentley Arnage. If the pushrod was so good, Lexus, BMW and Mercedes would use it. They know what sells in the luxury segment, GM doesn't (unless it is a truck), and GM gives Cadillac parts bin stuff from Chevy and expects that to compete with BMW, it doesn't work. Luxury marques really rely on image to sell a car, the companies with the best image sell the most, it is hard to make an image with a Chevy pushrod when the other brand has twin turbo 6, 8 and 10 cylinder engines and a V12 in the showroom.

[Z-06]

I never drove a CTS-V, only the V6 version. I hope to drive the 08 cts tomorrow. I know several people with GM pushrods, I used to own one, I have never experienced a GM pushrod as good as a DOHC V8 engine. Cadillac is the only luxury brand that uses a pushrod engine aside from the Bentley Arnage. If the pushrod was so good, Lexus, BMW and Mercedes would use it. They know what sells in the luxury segment, GM doesn't (unless it is a truck), and GM gives Cadillac parts bin stuff from Chevy and expects that to compete with BMW, it doesn't work. Luxury marques really rely on image to sell a car, the companies with the best image sell the most, it is hard to make an image with a Chevy pushrod when the other brand has twin turbo 6, 8 and 10 cylinder engines and a V12 in the showroom.

Dude,

Go and read the latest editorial by Csaba Csere in Car and Driver and get over your myths about Push Rod.

[Drew Dowdell]

I know several people with GM pushrods, I used to own one, I have never experienced a GM pushrod as good as a DOHC V8 engine.

So because you've never experienced it, it doesn't exist.

I've never seen the Grand Canyon in person....I've heard about it, people have told me about it.... but I haven't seen it myself.... so it must not exist.

Cadillac is the only luxury brand that uses a pushrod engine aside from the Bentley Arnage.

Chrysler Hemi?

If the pushrod was so good, Lexus, BMW and Mercedes would use it.

Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes sell what they know. I'm sure if they put their minds to it, they could come up with an pushrod that might compete with the LSx or Hemi engines. Out of that group of brands, there are very few engines that stand out. Nothing from Lexus stands out as an excellent engine. Capable, yes, however nothing that makes it special. BMW's I6es deserve praise. Mercedes dropped their I6es. The only Benz engines that come to mind for me are the V6 CDIs.

Drive an LS... or heck even a 5.3 Impala SS.

They know what sells in the luxury segment, GM doesn't (unless it is a truck), and GM gives Cadillac parts bin stuff from Chevy and expects that to compete with BMW, it doesn't work. Luxury marques really rely on image to sell a car, the companies with the best image sell the most, it is hard to make an image with a Chevy pushrod when the other brand has twin turbo 6, 8 and 10 cylinder engines and a V12 in the showroom.

GM can do more with less. The fact that GM's V8 runs with the V10s and V12s of other companies while weighing about the same as the I6 and returning better fuel efficiency than ALL of them should tell you something.

There just isn't the NHV issue with the LSx, the 5.3, or even the old LT-1 that you seem to think there is.

[Northstar]

I never drove a CTS-V, only the V6 version. I hope to drive the 08 cts tomorrow. I know several people with GM pushrods, I used to own one, I have never experienced a GM pushrod as good as a DOHC V8 engine. Cadillac is the only luxury brand that uses a pushrod engine aside from the Bentley Arnage. If the pushrod was so good, Lexus, BMW and Mercedes would use it. They know what sells in the luxury segment, GM doesn't (unless it is a truck), and GM gives Cadillac parts bin stuff from Chevy and expects that to compete with BMW, it doesn't work. Luxury marques really rely on image to sell a car, the companies with the best image sell the most, it is hard to make an image with a Chevy pushrod when the other brand has twin turbo 6, 8 and 10 cylinder engines and a V12 in the showroom.

Did you drive an LSx?

Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes can't make a pushrod V8 as good as GM can, that's why they don't.

If the LSx mills can't compete with the mills from other manufacturers, why is that never talked about in comparos that the current CTS-V is in?