$8000 Rebate on Tundra

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

HARRELSON TOYOTA

One of my local Toyota dealers is running an ad for 8K off of the Tundra.

Once upon a time, when GM was giving $8000 back to customers in order fo them to purchase a truck it was called "Bribing the consumer to buy their product." according to our fabulous media.

Now that Toyota is doing it, all we hear is 1) Nothing 2) About how Toyota is "serious about selling trucks" or 3) About how good the Tundra is selling(!!!!!1111!!11) Remember; it kinda-sorta, in a way, maybe, quite possibly is out selling the GMC Sierra this year.

It pisses me off that the media isn't harassing Toyota about this (Obviously because thy're not american and becuase the media isn't working over Toyota to bleed share and profits like they were the big 3) but what makes me happy is this: If the Turdra already needs close to 10K to move off the lots, imagine what the future holds as the 'new product luster' wears off and fuel prices continue to be a factor.

Edited September 1, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[The O.C.]

HARRELSON TOYOTA

One of my local Toyota dealers is running an ad for 8K off of the Tundra.

Once upon a time, when GM was giving $8000 back to customers in order fo them to purchase a truck it was called "Bribing the consumer to buy their product." according to our fabulous media.

Now that Toyota is doing it, all we hear is 1) Nothing 2) About how Toyota is "serious about selling trucks" or 3) About how good the Tundra is selling(!!!!!1111!!11) Remember; it kinda-sorta, in a way, maybe, quite possibly is out selling the GMC Sierra this year.

It pisses me off that the media isn't harassing Toyota about this (Obviously because thy're not american and becuase the media isn't working over Toyota to bleed share and profits like they were the big 3) but what makes me happy is this: If the Turdra already needs close to 10K to move off the lots, imagine what the future holds as the 'new product luster' wears off and fuel prices continue to be a factor.

So what if the dealer offers a huge cash-back incentive?

That's not the same as a manufacturer's rebate.....

[PurdueGuy]

So what if the dealer offers a huge cash-back incentive?

That's not the same as a manufacturer's rebate.....

It may not be the same... but it's not entirely different either. Would the dealer or the manufacturer be giving a $8k rebate if people were buying them at or near sticker? HECK NO.

[Dsuupr]

The dealer would need a BIG manufacture rebate to get there. Whether it was a front end rebate, or a back end rebate doesn't matter.

[Camino LS6]

It's strike three and Toyota is feeling the pain.

Good.

[buyacargetacheck]

Fairly easy pickings for Toyota. They want quick market share in a segment where the domestics by and large make a good product, and they have the cash to make it happen. Once Toyota converts a Big Three owner to a Tundra they'll do everything they can to hold on to them. Tundra will be rivaling Silverado, F-Series and Ram sales within 10 years. They'll buy the market share if they have to. Bank on it.

[Camino LS6]

Fairly easy pickings for Toyota. They want quick market share in a segment where the domestics by and large make a good product, and they have the cash to make it happen. Once Toyota converts a Big Three owner to a Tundra they'll do everything they can to hold on to them. Tundra will be rivaling Silverado, F-Series and Ram sales within 10 years. They'll try to buy the market share because they have to. And they will fail bank on it.

Fixed.

[enzl]

Is there a direct link to ad itself?

Wouldn't the $5k on the hood and invoice pricing get you about there on the highline product?

[The O.C.]

Is there a direct link to ad itself?

Wouldn't the $5k on the hood and invoice pricing get you about there on the highline product?

Also....which truck is the $8K on...?

Is it the hard-to-sell regular cab?

Perhaps it's on a "loss-leader" to get people into the showroom? An "ad" truck?

[Camino LS6]

Toyota has been building mostly well-equipped extended cab versions and the huge rebates have been moving them to the "I don't really need a truck" crowd. Once that market is exhausted, more trouble is coming their way. Will they then be as willing to try to tap the 3/4 and 1-ton markets with all of the expense involved?

Maybe.

But this is a gamble, even for cash-rich Toyota.

It's not as if the 1/2 ton is anything like a "home run".

This could potentially come to be known as "Toyota's Folly"

I hope it does.

[K.C.]

Toyota has peaked. Time for someone else to rise above and have Toyota overly criticized for the next 20 years.

[regfootball]

huge discounts will ruin their resale. so they are sacrificing resale for market share.

if this were GM folks would rip them. does toyota get a pass for this?

reliability has already taken a major hit......exploding engines. from a company with a big history of poor engineering (engine sludge).

why does it make sense to buy a tundra?

resale-no

reliability-no

styling-no

interior-gosh no unless you like the feel of trash cans and want bad dreams at night

price-maybe with rebates, but it was clearly to high to begin with

safety-no, they can't even make 5 star

dealer network-no

reputation-brand, maybe, pickups, no

performance, the engine and tranny are documented to be decent performance wise.

add all this up and you pretty much have to be foolish to plunk down the big bucks on a questionable product like this.

at least with chevy and ford you are getting product and value that has been proven for many years. buy a new turd and you are taking a BIG chance. I would not risk using a turd for medium duty considering how weak suspensions are on toyotas passenger cars.

it's your money. I'd suggest you read the broken FJ cruiser frame thread and then tell me you want to buy a toyota for a tough duty application.

Edited September 1, 2007 by regfootball

[Camino LS6]

Or watch the video comparing the F-150, Silverado, and Tundra going over the suspension test runs.

[K.C.]

Camino, do you have a link for that video?

[Camino LS6]

Not handy, I know it was posted before.

Anyone have it handy?

[gm4life]

But will the Toyota Tundra ever get close to out-selling a domestic truck... Maybe but I hope not... Will they please tell me no. To go along with this I guy I know got a new black Tundra 4WD to replace his 99 Town Car he buys all his cars at the Lincoln, Mercury and Toyota dealer. They also own a 01 Town Car and a Mercury Marauder. What a waist he really wanted a Navigator. I fear he's hooked.

[Camino LS6]

Here's the video. It's a hands-down win for the F-150 and the Tundra is pathetic. The Silverado is mid-pack in this test.

[Camino LS6]

*bump*

for those who haven't seen this before.

[mustang84]

Toyota is going to destroy the Tundra's resale values. It's really fascinating to watch Toyota make the same mistakes that GM and Ford were lambasted for. I read a while back that Toyota's profit margins were narrowing due to its explosive growth in America...how much longer can they afford to practically give these things away before it starts damaging both their reputation and the bottom line? Never mind that the Tundra hasn't even proven itself...if the frame or camshaft issues become widespread, it's over for the Tundra.

I'm going to bet that a year from now, Tundra flops like the Titan did.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

So what if the dealer offers a huge cash-back incentive?

That's not the same as a manufacturer's rebate.....

Where was that mantra when Detroit was throwing out cash?

Just another excuse to fudge what's really happening; or has happened (Typical of the import minded) The Tundra is pretty much a flop, I mean, it hasn't even been on the market for a year and it already needs almost 1/3 of the price back to move off of lots.

They'll buy the market share if they have to. Bank on it.

I agree..

And no, the ad is running on TV and I couldn't find a link to it.

Is it the hard-to-sell regular cab?

The ad includes an extended cab truck that looks to be top of the line. Now, whether or not that translates to what's actully being peddled on the lot could be a different story.

Edited September 1, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Polish_Kris]

HARRELSON TOYOTA

One of my local Toyota dealers is running an ad for 8K off of the Tundra.

Well it could mean $8000 off for the remaining 2007 models.

[plane]

In the eyes of the consumer $8k is $8k no matter where it comes from.

[thegriffon]

It will be factory rebates, although much of it may be in the form of "dealer incentives", which they don't have to pass along, and thus not usually counted as a rebate. The big regional distributors (SE Toyota and Gulf States Toyota) will offer their own rebates (and different D+H charges than elsewhere in the country) as well.

[toyoguy]

HARRELSON TOYOTA

One of my local Toyota dealers is running an ad for 8K off of the Tundra.

Once upon a time, when GM was giving $8000 back to customers in order fo them to purchase a truck it was called "Bribing the consumer to buy their product." according to our fabulous media.

did you even visit the dealer's website, they even list Tundra's incentive there.

FOG as a matter of fact the Tundra's rebates are smaller than GM's.

so here are some FACTs

Toyota gives $3000 cash

GM gives $3500 or $4000 in cash

Toyota offers

1.9% APR for a 5 year loan

GM offers

1.9 APR for a 6 year loan

another fact

GM cut 1000 workers or the third shift at their Oshawa truck two days ago.

here are more facts

last July sales

Silverado sales were off 26.5% (46,997)

Avalance sales were off 35.4% (4,164)

Sierra sales were off 27.9% (15,892)

last June

Silverado sales were off 26.4% (44,955)

Avalanche sales were off 16.5% (4,327)

Sierra sales were off 29.2% (15,187)

here are what Tundra sales have been like since it went on sale, notice a trend

Feb 9,669

Mar 13,196

Apr 14,200

May 17,727

June 21,727

July 23,150

did you really the average truck buyer cares about:

3 videos released by Ford

a Toyota exec saying a small number of camshafts were failing

a safety rating when 5000lb vehicle is run into a solid wall

oh and from my experience I was down in Houston a week ago, I encountered the Tundra about 4 (probably 6 times) more frequently than the GMT-900 pickups

here in west Texas the Tundra is about 1/3 as popular for now. In the next 6mo I expect to be seeing the Tundra as often as the GMT-900 pickups

Edited September 2, 2007 by toyoguy

[Camino LS6]

Then I expect that you will be disappointed.

[The O.C.]

Then I expect that you will be disappointed.

I see more Tundras than new GMT-900 pickups too......strangely enough....considering how many more a full year Chevy should be selling compared to Toyota.

[plane]

Look, you can't have it both ways.

You compare sales, but during the sales months you quoted, GM didn't have any cash on the hood in comparison to Toyota.

Go to just about any Toyota dealer now and you can get 0% financing.

GM certainly didn't have 0% for 60 at that time either.

And for you to play the shell game of it's dealer vs manufacturer incentives is a bit duplicative, to say the least.

The Silverado is hands down a better truck.

Those areas where it could be improved are quite simple to upgrade.

With the Tundra, it would take an entirely new truck from the wheels up.

[Camino LS6]

Look, you can't have it both ways.

You compare sales, but during the sales months you quoted, GM didn't have any cash on the hood in comparison to Toyota.

Go to just about any Toyota dealer now and you can get 0% financing.

GM certainly didn't have 0% for 60 at that time either.

And for you to play the shell game of it's dealer vs manufacturer incentives is a bit duplicative, to say the least.

The Silverado is hands down a better truck.

Those areas where it could be improved are quite simple to upgrade.

With the Tundra, it would take an entirely new truck from the wheels up.

And one look at the raw sales numbers and you see just how far Toyota has to go to even be a real player.

[toyoguy]

Look, you can't have it both ways.

You compare sales, but during the sales months you quoted, GM didn't have any cash on the hood in comparison to Toyota.

they had $1500 on the hood

take a wild guess why GM increased the incentives to greater levels than Toyota's. Come Monday sales data for Toyota and GM will be released.

Go to just about any Toyota dealer now and you can get 0% financing.

up to 48months not 60mo and this is still all dependant on the customer's credit rating.

GM certainly didn't have 0% for 60 at that time either.

And for you to play the shell game of it's dealer vs manufacturer incentives is a bit duplicative, to say the least.

what the dealer sells the Tundra for is their own business it has zero affect on how much money Toyota takes on the Tundra. Toyota dealers were plenty profitable before the Tundra went on sale.

The Silverado is hands down a better truck.

the only independant comparison which placed the Silverado ahead of the Tundra was C&D, because it is too much of a truck

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12...ota-tundra.html

MT, edmunds, CR, trailerboats and PM have prefered the Tundra

[toyoguy]

And one look at the raw sales numbers and you see just how far Toyota has to go to even be a real player.

yeah they are 5000 units away from outselling the Dodge Ram which has a $6000 rebate on it.

Or 0% for 60months

[Camino LS6]

As another poster has said: Call me when they outsell F-150 or Silverado.

Isn't going to happen.

The Tundra is strike three.

[buyacargetacheck]

"Import minded?" What is this the 1980s? The word "import" is so outdated when talking about cars it sounds like something that belongs in an old Chrysler ad.

Just another excuse to fudge what's really happening; or has happened (Typical of the import minded) The Tundra is pretty much a flop, I mean, it hasn't even been on the market for a year and it already needs almost 1/3 of the price back to move off of lots.

[toyoguy]

As another poster has said: Call me when they outsell F-150 or Silverado.

Isn't going to happen.

apparently you care about it enough to participate in the Tundra threads

The Tundra is strike three.

you can tell that to Toyota who saw net profit increase 32% last quarter.

[Camino LS6]

apparently you care about it enough to participate in the Tundra threads

you can tell that to Toyota who saw net profit increase 32% last quarter.

Of course I do, the tundra is Toyota's weakest product and I want to see it cost them a fortune.

And I guarantee that Tundra held Toy's profit down significantly, the product may never break even, and that makes me smile.

[DetroitNut90]

Strange, I thought the FJ's proving to be Toyota's weakest product.

[Camino LS6]

Strange, I thought the FJ's proving to be Toyota's weakest product.

:rotflmao:

[plane]

Large cash on the hood and powertrain are the only two things the Tundra has going for it.

Everything else is a big downer.

Frame - Can anyone say "Gumby"?

Suspension - Nothing like stamped metal to make a statement.

Panel Gaps - Maybe the flexframe and a poor suspension has something to do with this problem?

Interior - Acclaimed for wide swaths of cheap silver plastic and a total lack of ergonomics.

Styling - Subjective, but beached whales definitely come to mind whenever a Tundra rolls by.

Bed - Exposed bolts, again bottom of the heap or just a heap, depending on how you want to phrase it.

Paint - Judging by my neighbor's red Tundra, that faded (yes, faded) orange peel look never had it so good.

Tire Monitoring - Hmmm. Let me guess which tire is low now?

Safety Rating- Again, second class, go to the back of the line, no soup for you.

Finally, trailerboats? Come on. rofl.

[The O.C.]

Large cash on the hood and powertrain are the only two things the Tundra has going for it.

Everything else is a big downer.

Frame - Can anyone say "Gumby"?

Suspension - Nothing like stamped metal to make a statement.

Panel Gaps - Maybe the flexframe and a poor suspension has something to do with this problem?

Interior - Acclaimed for wide swaths of cheap silver plastic and a total lack of ergonomics.

Styling - Subjective, but beached whales definitely come to mind whenever a Tundra rolls by.

Bed - Exposed bolts, again bottom of the heap or just a heap, depending on how you want to phrase it.

Paint - Judging by my neighbor's red Tundra, that faded (yes, faded) orange peel look never had it so good.

Tire Monitoring - Hmmm. Let me guess which tire is low now?

Safety Rating- Again, second class, go to the back of the line, no soup for you.

Finally, trailerboats? Come on. rofl.

Hmmmm......let's all look at what happened to the midsize market today compared to, oh say, 30 years ago?

Who would have ever thought that Toyota and Honda would RULE the midsize sedan segment?

I'm not saying Toyota is going to magically outsell Silverado or F-150.....but all of you taking the Tundra TODAY with a grain of salt are making a big mistake....remember Toyota's business plan never counted on outselling Silverado and F-150.....

Furthermore....Plane....your "comments" about the Tundra speak of bias and bashing.....

[Camino LS6]

Hmmmm......let's all look at what happened to the midsize market today compared to, oh say, 30 years ago?

Who would have ever thought that Toyota and Honda would RULE the midsize sedan segment?

I'm not saying Toyota is going to magically outsell Silverado or F-150.....but all of you taking the Tundra TODAY with a grain of salt are making a big mistake....remember Toyota's business plan never counted on outselling Silverado and F-150.....

Furthermore....Plane....your "comments" about the Tundra speak of bias and bashing.....

Face it, the Tundra is a substandard product that would be laughed out of the market but for Toyota's "glowing" record of "quality". The truth is that you can't fake a good pickup and after three tries, Toy still can't build one. His post isn't bias, it's reality. Toyota has built another stinker and I will be overjoyed when it fails. The even bigger joke will be their attempt to expand to 3/4 and 1ton models.

And about bias: So what if it is present here? This is not a Toyota fansite, and none of us should feel any guilt about wanting them to fail. Fortunately, the Tundra helps in that respect.

[Flybrian]

Toyota Tundra. With UltraFlex bed, FJ-derived frame, and InstaWear camshafts, there's no doubt it has the Biggest Breaks in its Class.

[The O.C.]

Face it, the Tundra is a substandard product that would be laughed out of the market but for Toyota's "glowing" record of "quality". The truth is that you can't fake a good pickup and after three tries, Toy still can't build one. His post isn't bias, it's reality. Toyota has built another stinker and I will be overjoyed when it fails. The even bigger joke will be their attempt to expand to 3/4 and 1ton models.

And about bias: So what if it is present here? This is not a Toyota fansite, and none of us should feel any guilt about wanting them to fail. Fortunately, the Tundra helps in that respect.

True...it's a GM fansite...and that's why I'm on here too.

HOWEVER, I consider myself an automotive enthusiast across the board.....and therefore tend to look at things on a larger scale than just my enthusiasm for all things GM.

In NO WAY is Tundra "substandard." You may not like the vehicle....and that's fine. But I tend to think the truck is quite attractive and aggressive....seems to have a robust powertrain....and an interior that is stylish and unique (if not necessarily better than GM's entries.)

We'll see how well your "stinker" does at the end of the year. Somehow, I think Toyota's executives will be more than satisfied......

[Camino LS6]

True...it's a GM fansite...and that's why I'm on here too.

HOWEVER, I consider myself an automotive enthusiast across the board.....and therefore tend to look at things on a larger scale than just my enthusiasm for all things GM.

In NO WAY is Tundra "substandard." You may not like the vehicle....and that's fine. But I tend to think the truck is quite attractive and aggressive....seems to have a robust powertrain....and an interior that is stylish and unique (if not necessarily better than GM's entries.)

We'll see how well your "stinker" does at the end of the year. Somehow, I think Toyota's executives will be more than satisfied......

I doubt that they will be satisfied- the last I heard, they were pretty pissed about the Tundra's performance in the market.

[Camino LS6]

One other thing to remember, I actually buy trucks and you don't.

Right?

Trust me on this one if on no other, this thing is a stinker.

[plane]

Hmmmm......let's all look at what happened to the midsize market today compared to, oh say, 30 years ago?

Who would have ever thought that Toyota and Honda would RULE the midsize sedan segment?

I'm not saying Toyota is going to magically outsell Silverado or F-150.....but all of you taking the Tundra TODAY with a grain of salt are making a big mistake....remember Toyota's business plan never counted on outselling Silverado and F-150.....

Furthermore....Plane....your "comments" about the Tundra speak of bias and bashing.....

I'm not going to get you worked into a tizzy again.

One thread was enough for today. There's always tomorrow.

My language might be a bit colorful, but the comparison is apt and true.

If I were *biased*, I would have trashed the powertrain too with the exploding camshafts and all.

Or the timing belt on the 4.7.

Or the fact that the 4.0 gets crappy mileage.

But I did not go there.

Simply because piling on a truck with

"basically inept design and engineering for the segment"

would be just that, piling on.

Sound familiar?

[toyoguy]

I doubt that they will be satisfied- the last I heard, they were pretty pissed about the Tundra's performance in the market.

where did you hear that, cheersandgears?

[Camino LS6]

where did you hear that, cheersandgears?

No, it was a quote of a Toyota exec (now fomer ,probably) who opened his mouth to a reporter on a plane flight. Too many cocktails, I guess.

[toyoguy]

No, it was a quote of a Toyota exec (now fomer ,probably) who opened his mouth to a reporter on a plane flight. Too many cocktails, I guess.

I think you are combining a story about an airplane with Honda execs worried about the then upcoming Lambda SUV's and a Toyota exec saying the new Sequoia is possibly too large Edited September 2, 2007 by toyoguy

[K.C.]

Toyota Tundra. With UltraFlex bed, FJ-derived frame, and InstaWear camshafts, there's no doubt it has the Biggest Breaks in its Class.

Put some Firestone tires on it and have a BLOWOUT Sale!

[toyoguy]

Or the fact that the 4.0 gets crappy mileage.

the non-D4-S GR engine family has posted the best fuel economy in every comparision I've seen them in.

Edited September 2, 2007 by toyoguy

[Camino LS6]

I think you are combining a story about an airplane with Honda execs worried about the then upcoming Lambda SUV's and a Toyota exec saying the new Sequoia is possibly too large

Nope. I remember that one too.

If I could remember where it came from I'd try to find it for you. The substance was that this guy blabbed that the top execs were angry about quality problems and the costs of bringing the Tundra to market and the fact that it didn't set the world on fire when it got there.

I'm sure that he is very unemployed by now.