GM drops Camry, Accord test drive program

[toyoguy]

My selection was based upon which Accord Northstar picked. Besides, The V6 Accord doesn't receive an upgraded interior. Compare a spec'd out V6 Accord and a Spec'd out Passat, and the Passat still comes out ahead with 6-spd auto, 280-hp V6, available memory seats, xenon headlights, real wood trim, front and rear distance censors, AWD, etc etc... a nicer environment all around.

Yeah, the Passat will come out more expensive than the Accord, but just like people are saying the Accord is worth the extra cost over the new Malibu, the Passat proves the Accord could be better.

It's a lot more than the Accord. A vinyl V6 Passat goes for as much as a fully loaded V6 Accord. And the Passat's 280hp isn't SAE verified, you can go ahead and subtract 10hp to get its actual numbers.

Edited September 2, 2007 by toyoguy

[frogger]

Honda has pulled a bit of a rabbit out of its hat with the 190hp 4 banger and 29mpg v6, its a shame the 3.6L is looking pretty outclassed by the competition in all but DI trim.

[plane]

Honda has pulled a bit of a rabbit out of its hat with the 190hp 4 banger and 29mpg v6, its a shame the 3.6L is looking pretty outclassed by the competition in all but DI trim.

The upmodel 4-banger is a nice step up.

Hopefully GM will have the appropriate response for that.

But unless I'm missing something, the 3.5 horsepower and torque doesn't look significantly different than the 3.6 or the Toyota 3.5.

If anything, the Toyo 6 outclasses the Honda.

[frogger]

The upmodel 4-banger is a nice step up.

Hopefully GM will have the appropriate response for that.

But unless I'm missing something, the 3.5 horsepower and torque doesn't look significantly different than the 3.6 or the Toyota 3.5.

If anything, the Toyo 6 outclasses the Honda.

268hp vs 252hp

19/29 vs 17/26 mpg

[The O.C.]

First thing, my comment wasn't comparing GM to Honda. I take it you ignored my reply to the "$24k best in class" comment by suggesting the Passat being a better choice (Just so you know... the Passat is not manufactured by GM.)

Second thing, I also said both times that I wasn't referring to the design. The Lucerne's dash doesn't "look" like hard plastic, and neither does the Impala's for that matter. Both dashes have low-gloss textured finishes, yet they both get beat up here (especially by you) because they are actually hard plastic. You can't tell unless you touch the dash (none of us here on C&G could even tell from the initial press release pics.) So your "free pass" on the current Accord's interior material quality must be somewhat bias because just "looking nice" doesn't cut it for GM's selection in interior materials.

Yes the Lucerne and Impala LOOK like hard plastic. The dash materials beneath the woodgrain trim are shiny with a glossy texture that screams "cheap." It's been my major bitch with the quality of the interior in both cars since they came out.

GM simply uses inferior materials.

And yes, I've been inside a new Malibu.....(up on the stand at the Detroit Auto Show) and the materials are less-than-favorable compared to the competition.

[Flybrian]

I was riding in a Lucerne the other day when the driver panic-braked and my knees hit the lower dash. Now, I fractured my kneecap and have no feeling below them. Wish I would've been in an Avalon.

[The O.C.]

I was riding in a Lucerne the other day when the driver panic-braked and my knees hit the lower dash. Now, I fractured my kneecap and have no feeling below them. Wish I would've been in an Avalon.

whatEVER.....

DRAMA QUEEN.....

[Oracle of Delphi]

And yes, I've been inside a new Malibu.....(up on the stand at the Detroit Auto Show) and the materials are less-than-favorable compared to the competition.

Question? Did you have your clothes on or off?

[balthazar]

>>"Yes the Lucerne and Impala LOOK like hard plastic. The dash materials beneath the woodgrain trim are shiny with a glossy texture that screams "cheap.""<<

My father owns a Lucerne and I've been in it more than once. The dash below the woodgrain is neither shiny nor glossy and neither screams nor whispers "cheap".

[Northstar]

2007 Volkswagen Passat 2.0T: $24,180

The VW Passat has better interior materials and a more upscale appearance inside and out.... plus you get VW's 2.0L I-4 200 HP compared to the Accord's 2.4L I-4 166 HP.

However, I wasn't questioning the styling, but the interior material quality. The ones used in the current Accord are worse than the credit given to Honda. Hopefully, the new Accord has received upgraded interior materials. Unfortunately, I doubt the new Accord will match the Passat's interior quality considering the distance between the two at the moment.

The Passat is $30k vs $25k comparably equipped. It is nicer, but it costs $5k more.

[The O.C.]

>>"Yes the Lucerne and Impala LOOK like hard plastic. The dash materials beneath the woodgrain trim are shiny with a glossy texture that screams "cheap.""<<

My father owns a Lucerne and I've been in it more than once. The dash below the woodgrain is neither shiny nor glossy and neither screams nor whispers "cheap".

Then go look at GM's own sister cars......Lucerne vs. DTS.

The Cadillac uses much nicer materials over the entire dash. And before you tell me "it's a Cadillac and should have nicer materials" remember that Buicks are supposed to be "premium" products as well.....and should have an interior closer in quality to a Cadillac than an Impala (which the Lucerne shares most of it's interior plastics.)

Hell, even a LaCrosse has nicer materials inside it than Lucerne....and with actually alot less hard, cheap plastic.

[balthazar]

So; you're dropping the whole "shiny & glossy" claim then?

[Intrepidation]

It's sad that the Impala has more hard plastic than even the Monte Carlo...the design is decent and light years ahead of the old model but it still loosk cheap. Funny how we'll happily bitch about Chrysler products having cheap interiors or hard plastics yet we'll defend to the death Impalas or the fact that the DTS dash looks like teh rental whore Impala's.

[Angry Dad]

GM is dropping a program that it never started on a model they don't even sell yet?

Wisdom and the internet.

Yeah the Saturn program.

May as well be over on GMI and put up with the bored ricecar salesmen and zit faced kids talking about the cars their uncle drives.

[CARBIZ]

GM is dropping a program that it never started on a model they don't even sell yet?

Wisdom and the internet.

Yeah the Saturn program.

May as well be over on GMI and put up with the bored ricecar salesmen and zit faced kids talking about the cars their uncle drives.

[Oracle of Delphi]

May as well be over on GMI and put up with the bored ricecar salesmen and zit faced kids talking about the cars their uncle drives.

And you forgot the ones that will never buy a new GM car anyway, because they can't afford to!

[plane]

.....the bored ricecar salesmen.....

Now that is just sad.

Patriotic, red-blooded Americans can't even find refuge in a GM car forum.

WTH is next? Nascar?

Edited September 3, 2007 by plane

[Flybrian]

Heh too funny.

[z28luvr01]

Here's a thought. Maybe GM pulled the program because they'd look foolish with a lame-duck 2007 Accord in their showrooms while the 2008 Accord is now public knowledge and soon to be for sale. It's very possible they'll come back with the program once they can get their hands on a 2008 Accord.

[Flybrian]

Another theory:

~4,000 Chevrolet dealers x one $18,000 Accord - $72,000,000

~4,000 Chevrolet dealers x one $18,000 Camry - $72,000,000

= $144,000,000

[Newbiewar]

Another theory:

~4,000 Chevrolet dealers x one $18,000 Accord - $72,000,000

~4,000 Chevrolet dealers x one $18,000 Camry - $72,000,000

= $144,000,000

so your saying... that gm doesnt want their dealerships sending proffits to asia...?

what an insane theory...

mine is... that really the malibu, is substandard, and that no asian car, or european car should ever have the embarassment of being compared with the engeneering of anything designed in america...

and well its just a waste of floorspace to give up to the competition...

[Newbiewar]

perhaps the reason they did this is because they went to the advertisement companys with the simple philosophy, of... how much is it gonna cost... to advertise it right...

and their 100 million advertisment stunt is by far a better idea, and use of money

[Satty]

How many dealerships actually bought the Accords and Camrys? Larger dealerships tend to be part of groups, owned by one company, and they can send an Accord and Camry across the lot for use. My Saturn dealership did that, except instead of across the lot, they had to bring the Toyota and Honda in from across the state. Camrys and Accords can also be rented, so its unlikely GM would have actually paid $144 million. If they did want to buy them, they totally could have bought them as a fleet, thereby hurting Toyota and Honda's retail sales percentage a little.

[Newbiewar]

How many dealerships actually bought the Accords and Camrys? Larger dealerships tend to be part of groups, owned by one company, and they can send an Accord and Camry across the lot for use. My Saturn dealership did that, except instead of across the lot, they had to bring the Toyota and Honda in from across the state. Camrys and Accords can also be rented, so its unlikely GM would have actually paid $144 million. If they did want to buy them, they totally could have bought them as a fleet, thereby hurting Toyota and Honda's retail sales percentage a little.

the point is... advertising dolars can be spent better...

and some people have suggested that the new accord might have an edge on the malibu... and it would look bad for gm to pull the program after being successful as soon as the competator changes their product

[VenSeattle]

The Passat is $30k vs $25k comparably equipped. It is nicer, but it costs $5k more.

Even the Camry XLE V6 can be spec'd out over $30k but that doesn't prevent the Accord and Camry from being direct competitors. The point is, the Passat is nicer than the Accord at $24k & definitely at $30k.

Most of the Accord's interior is vinyl also. It only has leather inserts. The Passat's leatherette looks just as good (if not better) as the Accord's leather/vinyl interior. If you want a full leather interior, I believe the Passat offers it (in a couple of varieties.) The Accord doesn't at any price.

[makfu]

Frankly, this program was a gimmick. It didn’t work. What did work was the Aura being a genuinely excellent car. I have driven it. It is easily one of the best sorted FWD cars on the market today. With the early transmission software issues purged, the drivetrain is among the best in class with the 3.6, the chassis is a really well tuned version of Epsilon and the interior is very good both in packaging and fit and finish. Word of mouth is driving Aura sales and, provided the cars hold up well, I think we will see big numbers from the Aura over the next 3-4 years. Like many of the most recent GM products, one doesn’t have to make any excuses for the Aura; it is a genuinely competitive product.

As for the new Accord, I don’t know where to begin. I am a Honda fan. I think Honda makes really excellent products and the Accord was my pick for best family sedan for as long as I can remember. It has been vastly superior in both engineering and design to the ever drab Camry. The Accord may not have been the best seller, but it was the benchmark by which all other family sedans were judged. The current gen Accord was not pretty, but it was interesting and slick in its detailing. Furthermore, Honda had a unique design language that it had spent a lot of time cultivating. The ultimate culmination of Honda’s rakish, cowl-forward design ethos is best highlighted in the current Civic: it is slick, modern and well thought out.

In stark contrast, the new Accord is a mess. It is just plain ugly. Not in the passable, won’t offend, Camry bump on the nose sense. It is ugly in the “it will drive sales away”, 96 Ford Taurus sense of the word. In the initial photo’s, the headlamp / front bumper / hood-line, from an offset angle, look mismatched and give the illusion of poor fits. This is further exacerbated by the visible hood-front fasciae gap, which is very un-Honda like and a terrible design flaw in that the too-small grille should have been brought up to the gap-line to hide the seam. The side view looks like a cheap copy of a Chris Bangle BMW, with the awful inset character line and a knock-off BMW hockey-stick C pillar. The rear-end is typical Honda and is clean but devoid of detail and doesn’t match the rest of the car. This is the kind of amateur-hour styling disaster I would expect from Hyundai or Mitsubishi, not from Honda.

To top everything off, Honda has thrown away 25 years of class-leading interior design in favor of yet more BMW imitation? The interior ergonomics may still be good, but the design copies one of the worst aspects of post-Bangle BMW interior design, namely the slab like interior surfacing. I don’t know what idiot is running Honda design, but such a blatant (and poor) knock-off of BMW design elements should be a humiliating embarrassment for one of the world’s great auto companies.

The new Accord may yet sell well (and I am sure it still has Honda’s characteristically excellent driving dynamics and build quality), but I would be embarrassed to own one because I know the BMW crowd will be smirking all the way.

-Mak

2008 CTS FE3 3.6DI with 6 on the floor (on order)

Edited September 9, 2007 by makfu

[ponchoman49]

Sounds like someone at GM with some common sence was reading these very boards about all the deficiencies the new 08 Malibu has against some of it's competition and pulled the plug so to speak. How can you come to the table with a base 4 banger and 4 speed automatic only with delayed availibilty of the 6 speed auto until next year, lower V6 mileage compared to the 2 big dogs the CamCord, several interior dimensions that are LESS than last years models, lack of techy options like Nav Screen, Bluetooth, keyless start, no rear armrest or overhead assist grips, no more specialty Maxx model, less V6 HP than the CamCord and a too aggressive base price? Prediction: The new 08 Malibu will be a has been like the current model and will continue to trail the volume sellers in the sales race.

[balthazar]

>>"In stark contrast, the new Accord is a mess. It is just plain ugly..... "<<

After studying the pics, I agree with this assessment completely... to the point I almost believe the pics are NOT the actual car. Very backwards move, stylistically.

[GXT]

It was obvious from the very beginning that actually executing this gimmick was a bad idea. I knew it was. GM HAD to have known it as well. If not, I want a the job as GM VP of Advertising. And I'll do it for only $1,000,000/year.

We saw from the stats trickling out that this comparison didn't work in practice. I wish the stats had gone beyond the "GM isn't winning Camry/Accord buyers" and also looked at how many buyers GM had handed to Toyota/Honda.

It also forced GM to make questionable comparisons (to the point of lying) to make the Aura look favourable.

Did GM actually buy Accords and Camrys? If so, they are surprisingly dumb. I suspect they didn't (or not as many as they would need). Instead they got to the point where they actually would have had to buy thousands of Accords and Camrys and decided the gimmick was up. Sure, it was nice to pretend (Volt, anyone?). But GM isn't going to put their money where their mouth is. Not on this one.

[-Camaro-]

You guys over analyze way too much. I doubt anyone even cares, most people did not know about this "comparison" test thingy happening at Chevrolet dealerships.