GM drops Camry, Accord test drive program

[buyacargetacheck]

More lies and spin from GM. If this was such a successful strategy why aren't they continuing it with the Aura and implementing it with the Malibu, potentially a much greater payoff? The peanut gallery here at C&G could do a better job at marketing GM's cars - probably for free.

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/31/autos/gm_v...rce=yahoo_quote

The Aura program was successful, said Matt Armstrong, GM's Saturn marketing manager.

Aura sales increased 24 percent from June, when the program started, through July, he said. At the same time, the overall market for midsized cars went down 14 percent. July was the second-best month for the Aura since the car's launch in 2006, said Armstrong

The Saturn test drive program had always been intended as a summer promotion to boost awareness of the Aura, which was an entirely new vehicle and name for Saturn.

Edited August 31, 2007 by buyacargetacheck

[Northstar]

Perhaps there were too many dealers who didn't want to have to go buy a Camry and Accord, or perhaps GM thinks the new Accord is too good.

[the_yellow_dart]

perhaps GM thinks the new Accord is too good.

I think you hit the nail there.

I personally can't believe there's a new one already, the outgoing one still looks so new.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

GM drops Camry, Accord test drive program

Customers were to be able to test new Malibu against Camry and Accord at dealerships. Program was working for Saturn, GM says.

By Peter Valdes-Dapena, CNNMoney.com staff writer

August 31 2007: 1:50 PM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors has quietly dropped a marketing strategy it announced in May where it would bring other car makers' vehicles to its Chevrolet showrooms for customers to test against its redesigned 2008 Malibu

The company was already running a similar program for its new Saturn Aura sedan where dealers were bringing Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys into the showroom and allowing customers to inspect and test those vehicles in comparison to the Aura.

GM (Charts, Fortune 500) has also stopped marketing support of that program. The company is, instead, shifting its Saturn marketing dollars to the just-released redesigned 2008 Saturn Vue SUV. Dealers can voluntarily continue the program on their own, a GM spokeswoman said, but GM would no longer be advertising it.

Saturn dealers, which are independently owned businesses, paid for the competitive vehicles themselves. For the most part, dealers either purchased or rented competitive vehicles for the purpose. Dealers who also owned Toyota (Charts) or Honda dealerships could "borrow" vehicles for the program.

The Aura program was successful, said Matt Armstrong, GM's Saturn marketing manager.

Aura sales increased 24 percent from June, when the program started, through July, he said. At the same time, the overall market for midsized cars went down 14 percent. July was the second-best month for the Aura since the car's launch in 2006, said Armstrong

The Saturn test drive program had always been intended as a summer promotion to boost awareness of the Aura, Armstrong said, which was an entirely new vehicle and name for Saturn.

"We made the decision to shift our resources over to Vue," Armstrong said.

GM gave no specific reason for dropping plans for the similar program involving the new Chevrolet Malibu.

"It's really been off the table for quite some time," said Nancy Libby, communications manager for Chevrolet.

The Malibu launch will be marketed with some sort of innovative approach, Libby said, but not the one Saturn used, as had originally been discussed.

"We really just didn't think that was the best approach we could come up with," she said.

Chevrolet has about 4,100 dealers compared to about 400 for Saturn, Libby said, but the sheer number of retail sites was, while a complicating factor, was not the reason for dropping the side-by-side-by-side concept.

The 2008 Malibu will be based on the same engineering fundamentals as the current Saturn Aura. The Malibu, which is expected to launch in November with a starting price of $19,995, is available with a base 4-cylinder engine that is not offered on the Aura. The Malibu's steering and suspension are also tuned to be somewhat lighter and more forgiving than the Aura's.

The company recently invited journalists to its vehicle test center in Milford Mich. to drive different versions of the 2008 Malibu in a series of tests against the Camry. Participating journalists had to agree not to write reviews based on those test drives until November.

Honda (Charts) recently revealed a redesigned 2008 Accord which is set to enter showrooms in September. The Saturn Aura's so-called "Side-by-side-by-side Test Drive" program had involved the 2007 Accord, not the new version.

GM has called the Malibu the company's strongest offering ever in the competitive mid-sized sedan category. Currently, that vehicle segment is dominated by Toyota and Honda

source:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/31/autos/gm_v...sion=2007083112

Edited August 31, 2007 by NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

[A Horse With No Name]

A shame to give this up. It was a brilliant idea and working.

Chris

[siegen]

Dropping the program just in time for the '08 Accord. Not much confidence in the new Malibu?

[frogger]

So the Malibu will be better looking inside and out vs the Aura but have lighter steering and a softer suspension. I can't win.

[pow]

For the sidebysidebyside comparison, AURAs had the advantage of a "free" V6 to compete against 4-cylinder Accord LXs and Camry LEs. Retail Malibus won't get the 3.5.

[Flybrian]

I personally can't believe there's a new one already, the outgoing one still looks so new.

I still cannot look at the Accord and see a car worth over $24,000.

[Northstar]

I still cannot look at the Accord and see a car worth over $24,000.

Most of them aren't over $24k though. The interior is plenty worthy of the price tag, whether the exterior is crappy or not.

[FAPTurbo]

Dropping the program just in time for the '08 Accord. Not much confidence in the new Malibu?

Maybe they could be revamping it, just to go toe-to-toe with the Camry. In my area at least, the Accord tends to be almost in a different category than the Camry. Most of them I see are loaded, with the V6, and driven by younger people. One family I know own two, and said they'd never cross-shop with a Camry, because they believe Toyota is too "boring" , and for "old people" . One of their Accord's is a stick too.

[VenSeattle]

Most of them aren't over $24k though. The interior is plenty worthy of the price tag, whether the exterior is crappy or not.

You're joking right? The current Accord's interior, although well designed, is almost entirely made up of HARD PLASTIC.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

More dumbassed GM marketing moves...

The Malibu will compete fine against the new Accord... But now, because of this we have the arrogant Honda brigade looking down their noses and saying That's what I thought."

If GM indeed doesn't think the malibu is as good as the Accord it is evidence of a larger problem with the Detroit industry in general... They've become just like Pavlov's dogs in that they are conditioned to be helpless. What does GM do in the face of a media so cynical that it BLATANTLY places bias in it's reviews and boasts about it? They cower in the corner like Pavlov's dogs. What does GM do when a competitor introduces a new product that has historically been better than GM's offering? Cower in the corner....

This is because GM and it's workers and the public have all been conditioned to think that Detroit makes second class sheetmetal.

Here's the kicker: and please GM, if you're reading this, take it to heart. If you do not believe that you're any better than your competitors, YOU NEVER WILL BE. It's the CONFIDENCE that is and has been missing in Detroit for 10-15 years now. If you do your best as a corporation, that's all we can ask: WIN or LOSE.

And yes; I think GM did chicken out... I just don't see any other reason why they would phase out such an effective and successful campaign (Even Ford's head2head ads are working for the Fusion) And unless GM continues to be aggressive towards the imports, they will never win the fight.

I hope I'm wrong; but more and more I'm seeing the old schizophrenic GM with $h!ty marketing, little to no commitment and wasted opportunities.

Edited September 1, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[CARBIZ]

I suspect a lot of GM's marketing is driven by the so-called experts of the dealer body. If the dealers were not behind this program (ie., going out to lease or rent or whatever an Accord or Camry for the show room), then the plan would have failed anyway. I know insurance regulations would be a nightmare up here in Canada. We tried it with 'overnight' test drives a few years ago, but it had to be structured as a rental, to keep the lawyers happy.

And don't forget, too: there are quite a few traitors in the midst. Many, many dealers already own Toyota or Honda franchises and have been recently forced to spend a lot of money on new buildings, upgrades, etc. to handle all the newer/bigger models. You guys should see the sheer audaceous size of some of the Honda and Toyota stores that have expanded recently in the Toronto area. These multiple brand dealers (and you know who you are) would not want to see this happen either.

Let's face it: if your 30 year old Pontiac building was paid for, but you had a $5M mortgage on your Honda building - would you want to see this plan succeed?

Just saying, is all................

I think GM needs to shove it up the ass of Toyota and Honda.

[Sixty8panther]

I still cannot look at the Accord and see a car worth over $24,000.

Exactly.

[Northstar]

You're joking right? The current Accord's interior, although well designed, is almost entirely made up of HARD PLASTIC.

No, I was serious. What midsize family sedan as a better interior?

The dash might have hard plastic, but every family sedan has plastic there, and the Accord's door panels are much nicer than everything else. Perhaps the cheap models are not very nice, but for $24k you can get an EX-L.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Stupid Move... and for the UMPTEENTH TIME, the 3500 VVT should be a retail option!

[Satty]

I've got to back Northie up, the Accord has the best interior in the class. The Fusion has mostly decent materials, but the design is plain, the current Malibu is unspectacular, the Camry is ok, nothing great and the Sonata...well, its a Hyundai. So yeah, the Accord has the best interior available at the price point. Anyone who thinks any current GM offering in the class is better is obviously biased and blind to objectivity, perhaps a borderline ignorant hick.

[plane]

Dropping the program just in time for the '08 Accord. Not much confidence in the new Malibu?

Other favorite Honda Myths......

10. Plastic decals add 10 horsepower, easy.

9. The Honda Ridgeline can too go off-road and not break all its suspension mounting points.

8. The Honda Ridgeline is not a minivan. It's "minivan-inspired".

7. VTak is the only engine technology worth owning.

6. http://videos.streetfire.net/hottestvideos...80c011963f0.htm

5. The Z06 doesn't stand a chance against my NSX. Absolutely none.

4. What 5-speed automatic transmission problems?

3. http://www.carspace.com/videos/play!id=.5b3c926f

2. Every car should have a 3 foot wing AND cheap bumpers.

1. Torque doesn't mean a damn thing below 7000 rpms.

[FloydHendershot]

They probably got good feedback from people who declined to purchase an Aura. My instincts tell me people don't like to be put on the spot to make a choice.

It might be better to let one reach their own conclusions rather than have it thrust upon them.

Also, it almost reeks of desperation. It's a tough segment and with the new Malibu it's tougher. The product should speak for themselves but unfortunately having all three in a Saturn or Chevy dealer that is not the spin.

[VenSeattle]

No, I was serious. What midsize family sedan as a better interior?

The dash might have hard plastic, but every family sedan has plastic there, and the Accord's door panels are much nicer than everything else. Perhaps the cheap models are not very nice, but for $24k you can get an EX-L.

2007 Volkswagen Passat 2.0T: $24,180

The VW Passat has better interior materials and a more upscale appearance inside and out.... plus you get VW's 2.0L I-4 200 HP compared to the Accord's 2.4L I-4 166 HP.

However, I wasn't questioning the styling, but the interior material quality. The ones used in the current Accord are worse than the credit given to Honda. Hopefully, the new Accord has received upgraded interior materials. Unfortunately, I doubt the new Accord will match the Passat's interior quality considering the distance between the two at the moment.

[pow]

More dumbassed GM marketing moves...

The Malibu will compete fine against the new Accord... But now, because of this we have the arrogant Honda brigade looking down their noses and saying That's what I thought."

If GM indeed doesn't think the malibu is as good as the Accord it is evidence of a larger problem with the Detroit industry in general... They've become just like Pavlov's dogs in that they are conditioned to be helpless. What does GM do in the face of a media so cynical that it BLATANTLY places bias in it's reviews and boasts about it? They cower in the corner like Pavlov's dogs. What does GM do when a competitor introduces a new product that has historically been better than GM's offering? Cower in the corner....

This is because GM and it's workers and the public have all been conditioned to think that Detroit makes second class sheetmetal.

Here's the kicker: and please GM, if you're reading this, take it to heart. If you do not believe that you're any better than your competitors, YOU NEVER WILL BE. It's the CONFIDENCE that is and has been missing in Detroit for 10-15 years now. If you do your best as a corporation, that's all we can ask: WIN or LOSE.

And yes; I think GM did chicken out... I just don't see any other reason why they would phase out such an effective and successful campaign (Even Ford's head2head ads are working for the Fusion) And unless GM continues to be aggressive towards the imports, they will never win the fight.

I hope I'm wrong; but more and more I'm seeing the old schizophrenic GM with $h!ty marketing, little to no commitment and wasted opportunities.

There's confidence, and then there's naive overconfidence. I've been in the '08 Malibu, and my honest opinion is that it just doesn't match up with the Accord. It's much better than the old one, but it still has quite a few flaws, including interior build quality/materials and rear seat accomodations.

[vonVeezelsnider]

There's confidence, and then there's naive overconfidence. I've been in the '08 Malibu, and my honest opinion is that it just doesn't match up with the Accord. It's much better than the old one, but it still has quite a few flaws, including interior build quality/materials and rear seat accomodations.

Agreed... Only be balzy if you know for certain you CAN win.

[pow]

Agreed... Only be balzy if you know for certain you CAN win.

Yep... like with the GMT900s or CTS.

[MyerShift]

I've got to back Northie up, the Accord has the best interior in the class. The Fusion has mostly decent materials, but the design is plain, the current Malibu is unspectacular, the Camry is ok, nothing great and the Sonata...well, its a Hyundai. So yeah, the Accord has the best interior available at the price point. Anyone who thinks any current GM offering in the class is better is obviously biased and blind to objectivity, perhaps a borderline ignorant hick.

Agreed. The outgoing Accord has the best interior in the family sedan biz. The new Accord's interior looks to be of high quality as well, if a wee bit less cohesive and attractive in overall presentation.

I don't generally include the Passat as a "usual" family sedan as its engineering, design, and perceived interior quality, as well as source of origin (Germany) place it in a slightly more advanced league than the other mainstreamers that unfortunately ends up placing the Passat falling between two stools. Not affordable and contented enough to really charge at the heart of the midsize market, and capable of being pricy enough to be pitted against smaller sedans of its homeland such as the Audi A4 and BMW 3-Series to those from other nationalities such as the Acura TL and Infinti G35 to the Cadillac CTS but lacking the brand cachet to make the difference.

It's one of the reasons VW is "between a rock and a hard place".

[pow]

Agreed. The outgoing Accord has the best interior in the family sedan biz. The new Accord's interior looks to be of high quality as well, if a wee bit less cohesive and attractive in overall presentation.

I don't generally include the Passat as a "usual" family sedan as its engineering, design, and perceived interior quality, as well as source of origin (Germany) place it in a slightly more advanced league than the other mainstreamers that unfortunately ends up placing the Passat falling between two stools. Not affordable and contented enough to really charge at the heart of the midsize market, and capable of being pricy enough to be pitted against smaller sedans of its homeland such as the Audi A4 and BMW 3-Series to those from other nationalities such as the Acura TL and Infinti G35 to the Cadillac CTS but lacking the brand cachet to make the difference.

It's one of the reasons VW is "between a rock and a hard place".

If they send over the Mondeo and Vectra here, both will be in the same position: more expensive, less powerful, same size, but more upscale than the traditional US midsize market. It's a niche market.

[MyerShift]

If they send over the Mondeo and Vectra here, both will be in the same position: more expensive, less powerful, same size, but more upscale than the traditional US midsize market. It's a niche market.

True in that regard, as VW has some issues against it that the others do too such as the strength of the Euro versus the Dollar, but VW's labour unions seem to come up quite often as well. It's also why some models should be assembled in North America instead of imported, but with identical specifications. The Aura is an example as a step in the right direction, but I hope that the next generation Vectra will be assembled in the U.S. exactly identical to the German Opel version.

However, the VW Jetta is assembled in Mexico, and its pricing is anywhere but People's Car's.

[pow]

True in that regard, as VW has some issues against it that the others do too such as the strength of the Euro versus the Dollar, but VW's labour unions seem to come up quite often as well. It's also why some models should be assembled in North America instead of imported, but with identical specifications. The Aura is an example as a step in the right direction, but I hope that the next generation Vectra will be assembled in the U.S. exactly identical to the German Opel version.

However, the VW Jetta is assembled in Mexico, and its pricing is anywhere but People's Car's.

The Jetta is still too posh for its size. Something like a Skoda would fit the US mainstream more.

[CARBIZ]

Sigh. Sitting in one car for 10 minutes does not an expert make. I would certainly hope that GM's technical people spent more than ten minutes inside the Accord/Camry and others when deciding on what interiors to go with on the new Malibu.

GM should not EVER make the mistake of trying to out Japanese or out-German the competition. Notwithstanding lots of self- appointed experts, there are many, many people who do not like the LOOK of Japanese cars, or German cars for that matter. If GM must, Pontiac or Buick should go after those anything-imported-is-better people. Malibu is first and foremost and AMERICAN car. Should GM be ashamed of that?

The VW has the much better looking interior than the Accord, IMO; however, it is still cold and, well, too Teutonic. I have had many customers shop VW and Honda, then buy the Impala because they thought the ride/handling of the others was too 'harsh,' or the look was too 'cold.'

I, too, spent a whole 10 minutes in the Malibu (base car) and was blown away by the interior. The two tone adds such a luxurious quality to it. I would not shy away from stacking it up against the Accord, but then I never shied away from stacking the Impala up against the Accord either. The average person does not rub their cheeks (or any other parts of their body) along the dashboard, or try to hump the cracks in door panels. They leave that to the 'experts' to whine about.

Despite brainwashing by a more than jaded Press, GM does many things right, and either the marketing boys or the dealers have to point that out. As long as the Malibu is marketed correctly (and I am holding my breath), it should be a huge hit.

[ZL-1]

or perhaps GM thinks the new Accord is too good.

Dropping the program just in time for the '08 Accord. Not much confidence in the new Malibu?

puts on 'naive hat'

Maybe it is just a coincidence?

removes 'naive hat'

Edited September 1, 2007 by ZL-1

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I don't think anyone here has even seen the new Accord in the flesh, yet a lot have already written off the Malibu.

The new Malibu has "HIT" written all over it and it will serve all Accord and Camry buyers (Save for the VERY hardcore brainwashed---you know, the people who also think all black people are bad, or that all people who live outside of the city are "hicks", the loft appartment living, bumper sticker of the month "I live a pampered yet sheltered existence"---that kind of mentality) just fine.

My problem is; SOMEONE has to INFORM the consumer that this new Malibu even exists. And judging by GM's recent $h!ty marketing, I'm willing to bet that the side-by-side-by-side deal was *probably* the best chance the car had at conquest sales. However, I could see why it might backfire, but GM has already deemed it a hit with the Aura so why go back on that?

I don't mind GM cancelling the program because it does seem like desperation, but at the same time GM needs to understand that they will not win buyers with tepid 'fuzzy-feel good' smiling Malibu ads. The imports brought the fight to Detroit's front door through image, loyalty and even our own media to some extent. It's time for GM and Ford to fight or die; it's as simple as that, and I'd rather them fight and die than just die.

Edited September 1, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[The O.C.]

You're joking right? The current Accord's interior, although well designed, is almost entirely made up of HARD PLASTIC.

But it's executed to a VERY high level.

Hard plastic doesn't have to be bad.....just make sure it's got nice graining, an expensive sheen, and make sure the fit-and-finish is there.

GM-wise.....to me.....Impala and Cobalt are ways NOT to do hard plastic. The GMT-900s? VERY nicely done and executed.

Accord is the same way.....it looks more expensive and you can't tell it's "hard" unless you touch it. That's the difference.....

[The O.C.]

So yeah, the Accord has the best interior available at the price point. Anyone who thinks any current GM offering in the class is better is obviously biased and blind to objectivity, perhaps a borderline ignorant hick.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

That's why I get my ass beat in here so much......just recognizing reality in the marketplace.

(In fact, this OLD Accord interior puts the new Malibu's in the trailer.....)

[The O.C.]

As long as the Malibu is marketed correctly (and I am holding my breath), it should be a huge hit.

No....not "as long as...."

Marketing is important.....but it's all about the product first. What people are saying on here is that there is a concern that the new Malibu lacks the fit-and-finish and quality inside that even the old Accord exhibited.....

Perhaps the very reason they decided NOT to continue the "showroom side-by-side" and "test-drive" comparisons.

No one is debating design, or styling, or color-combinations necessarily (although I think the black-tie controls look decidedly cheesy in this application.)

Have you ever sat in a current-generation Opel Vectra? I did two years' ago at the Frankfurt Auto Show......and that car's interior is head-and-shoulders in a higher class than the new Malibu (or AURA.) Not only in terms of materials quality, but in terms of fit-and-finish and switchgear quality....including integrated and uniquely designed stereo controls (as opposed to a parts-bin corporate radio like the black-tie.)

It's like my previous post....WHY are we still waiting on a midsize sedan from GM that first of all matches the quality of the very cars GM builds and sells already overseas.....not to mention the current competition.

[PeterPuck]

But it's executed to a VERY high level.

Hard plastic doesn't have to be bad.....just make sure it's got nice graining, an expensive sheen, and make sure the fit-and-finish is there.

GM-wise.....to me.....Impala and Cobalt are ways NOT to do hard plastic. The GMT-900s? VERY nicely done and executed.

Accord is the same way.....it looks more expensive and you can't tell it's "hard" unless you touch it. That's the difference.....

Exactly. It seems that the same people who sing the praises of domestic interiors with hard plastic like to bash imports with the same thing. Do people go through the interior of an import and poke away everywhere in order to judge the "quality"? "That's hard there, that's soft, that's hard..."

There can be hard plastic, if it's well-executed. I still remember the pillowy, puffy interiors in some of GM's interiors like the Grand Am. They were horrific, but someone had decided that they public wanted "soft".

[The O.C.]

Exactly. It seems that the same people who sing the praises of domestic interiors with hard plastic like to bash imports with the same thing. Do people go through the interior of an import and poke away everywhere in order to judge the "quality"? "That's hard there, that's soft, that's hard..."

There can be hard plastic, if it's well-executed. I still remember the pillowy, puffy interiors in some of GM's interiors like the Grand Am. They were horrific, but someone had decided that they public wanted "soft".

Yup, yup.

Take one specific example on one specific car.....Chevrolet Cobalt.

Have you ever opened and shut the glovebox on a Cobalt? First of all, it's made of hard, hollow, and brittle plastic....and when you shut it, it makes a tinny "clang" sound.

Do the same thing in one of it's competitors (Civic, etc., you name it) and you get a "thud" or "thunk."

It's a minor small detail, yes. But a GREAT example to use. It's the small details that GM is turning a blind eye to.....or someone at GM certainly isn't sweating the details in any event.

[buyacargetacheck]

Just think about it at the individual level. After test driving the Malibu (if the Accord owner is even so inclined), he is going to weigh whether or not 60+ months of payments for a Chevrolet that may not hold up as well or whose design might age too fast is worth the risk. To overcome this the Malibu has to be light years ahead of the new Accord. After seeing the new Accord in pictures I don't think the Malibu's sales potential looks as hot as it did a few days ago.

[PeterPuck]

To overcome this the Malibu has to be light years ahead of the new Accord. After seeing the new Accord in pictures I don't think the Malibu's sales potential looks as hot as it did a few days ago.

The Accord is simply a better car (yes, this is a safe assumption). This should be no surprise, given the vast amounts of money Honda has to develop and concentrate on new vehicles.

Most Americans, understandably, will choose the better vehicle to put their hard-earned money into, even if it's not miles ahead in quality. The few that will purchase the Malibu because it's "almost" as good and because it's American will not be significant enough.

I expect the Malibu to sell around Ford Fusion levels (retail) while the Accord becomes the #1 selling car in America. Then I expect people here to moan about how people are brainwashed by imports, rejecting perfectly good vehicles like the Aura and Malibu in favour of "ugly" vehicles like the CamCord.

Edited September 1, 2007 by PeterPuck

[The O.C.]

The Accord is simply a better car (yes, this is a safe assumption). This should be no surprise, given the vast amounts of money Honda has to develop and concentrate on new vehicles.

Most Americans, understandably, will choose the better vehicle to put their hard-earned money into, even if it's not miles ahead in quality. The few that will purchase the Malibu because it's "almost" as good and because it's American will not be significant enough.

I expect the Malibu to sell around Ford Fusion levels (retail) while the Accord becomes the #1 selling car in America. Then I expect people here to moan about how people are brainwashed by imports, rejecting perfectly good vehicles like the Aura and Malibu in favour of "ugly" vehicles like the CamCord.

Probably a safe assumption.

However, I DO think that GM did a good job with the exterior styling....I find the new Malibu QUITE attractive. I also think the basic underpinnings/chassis/suspension will be very competitive in the marketplace. And FINALLY, GM is putting a just-about fully up-to-date selection of powertrains in the car (minus the base 4-speed automatic.)

It may lack a few features (Navigation) but overall content and pricing should be good too.

It's the interior details I think that will sway many people to stay in their Accords and Camrys, et al. Domestic buyers most likely won't mind the interior at all.....but it's the imports right now that are leading and defining this segment. And that's a problem for the new Malibu.

[Camino LS6]

Back to the topic at hand, I don't have a problem with GM stopping the Aura program - it did have the desired effect. What I take issue with is GM first announcing, then canceling the program with the Malibu - very stupid move.

Backpedaling makes no sense, the announcement should never have been made.

[smk4565]

It was probably costly to do, so I could see how there would be better use of marketing dollars.

I suspect the real reason is because they are afraid of the 2008 Accord. The 08 Accord V6 is a tick faster 0-60 than the 304 hp CTS, so it must really blow away a Malibu or Aura. I don't know if GM has what it takes to compete in the small to midsize car segment.

To do it right they have to abandon all the old platforms like the W-body and abandon the 4-speeds and pushrods and almost start all over. Even the 252 hp 3.6 liter is lagging in the class. The Accord, Camry and Altima are all near 270, even the Ford 3.5 liter is 263 hp. The Malibu V6 loses the fuel economy battle with the Accord and Camry as well. 250 hp is fine if they were getting 20/30 mpg, but they are getting 17/26.

[The O.C.]

It was probably costly to do, so I could see how there would be better use of marketing dollars.

I suspect the real reason is because they are afraid of the 2008 Accord. The 08 Accord V6 is a tick faster 0-60 than the 304 hp CTS, so it must really blow away a Malibu or Aura. I don't know if GM has what it takes to compete in the small to midsize car segment.

To do it right they have to abandon all the old platforms like the W-body and abandon the 4-speeds and pushrods and almost start all over. Even the 252 hp 3.6 liter is lagging in the class. The Accord, Camry and Altima are all near 270, even the Ford 3.5 liter is 263 hp. The Malibu V6 loses the fuel economy battle with the Accord and Camry as well. 250 hp is fine if they were getting 20/30 mpg, but they are getting 17/26.

The 3.6L is a fine engine....and should serve Malibu well.

BUT.....what GM really should have done is engineer the 300hp DI 3.6L for FWD duty and installed it in the V6 Malibu instead. Why....?????

Simple.......leapfrog the competition.....and provide an unexpected competitive advantage.

Remember...it's not just good enough to match Accord and Camry.....Chevy needs something akin to a home-run out-of-the-ballpark. A new midsize entry....WITH a class-leading V6 engine that matches competition from segments several notches up.....would be an exciting story to tell.....and add some real "street-cred" to a "mainstream" midsize entry.

[smk4565]

The Malibu looks nice, I really like the styling, but I think the interior (the gray and cloth ones) will be a let down compared to other cars in the class. 4-cylinder refinement and the V6's power/fuel economy doesn't match the other cars, plus the Japanese have the reputation for reliability that Chevy doesn't have. It is shame too, the Malibu looks great, but I fear they missed on some details and people will select the Accord and Camry over it. GM still plays catch up in a lot of segments, even if they build a car equal to the Accord, why would Accord owners trade in on an equal car. To break that loyalty GM needs cars that are 15% better than the next best car in the class.

[smk4565]

300 hp in a front drive car is too much. The 252 in the Malibu is fine, but the 17/26 mpg is not when the Accord is 19/29. GM should have gotten better mileage out of it, or made a new 3.2 liter DI V6 with 250 hp that could get 20/30 mpg. I think the 2.0 turbo is underutilized also, 260 hp and 22/31 mpg, that is tough to beat. They have to try something, they are still chasing the competition, which they can't do forever.

[VenSeattle]

But it's executed to a VERY high level.

Hard plastic doesn't have to be bad.....just make sure it's got nice graining, an expensive sheen, and make sure the fit-and-finish is there.

GM-wise.....to me.....Impala and Cobalt are ways NOT to do hard plastic. The GMT-900s? VERY nicely done and executed.

Accord is the same way.....it looks more expensive and you can't tell it's "hard" unless you touch it. That's the difference.....

First thing, my comment wasn't comparing GM to Honda. I take it you ignored my reply to the "$24k best in class" comment by suggesting the Passat being a better choice (Just so you know... the Passat is not manufactured by GM.)

Second thing, I also said both times that I wasn't referring to the design. The Lucerne's dash doesn't "look" like hard plastic, and neither does the Impala's for that matter. Both dashes have low-gloss textured finishes, yet they both get beat up here (especially by you) because they are actually hard plastic. You can't tell unless you touch the dash (none of us here on C&G could even tell from the initial press release pics.) So your "free pass" on the current Accord's interior material quality must be somewhat bias because just "looking nice" doesn't cut it for GM's selection in interior materials.

[pow]

Generally I don't go nitpicking an interior with a micrometer and color wheel in hand; all I care about is if I get an overall impression of "quality", or more simply put, whether or not I'd like to spend time in it. With the '08 Malibu, I still get an overall impression of cheapness. But that's just me.

[toyoguy]

First thing, my comment wasn't comparing GM to Honda. I take it you ignored my reply to the "$24k best in class" comment by suggesting the Passat being a better choice (Just so you know... the Passat is not manufactured by GM.)

actually $24k should get you a V6 Accord

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

(In fact, this OLD Accord interior puts the new Malibu's in the trailer.....)

Oh, what-ever man.... Have you even been in a new Malibu? I don't know what the Accord does to make everyone in the automotive world SOO happy, but I'm not that impressed at all. Sure it's a nice car and probably in the top of it's class despite being older but it's not the holy grail of car buying that everyone makes it out to be. As ven effectively pointed out there are MUCH nicer offerings on the market, and the 'not mass market' excuse is just that; an excuse for where the car falls short. (And yes, GM is not the only company that makes excuses for products that aren't in the sweet spot)

WHY are we still waiting on a midsize sedan from GM that first of all matches the quality of the very cars GM builds and sells already overseas.....not to mention the current competition.

We're not.

Exactly. It seems that the same people who sing the praises of domestic interiors with hard plastic like to bash imports with the same thing. Do people go through the interior of an import and poke away everywhere in order to judge the "quality"? "That's hard there, that's soft, that's hard..."

1) To balance the LACK of import criticism in the media and 2) Yes, a lot of us do bash imports solely because thy're imports. I've never understood why the brave few import minded soles that come to domestic fan sites can't grasp the ideaology that some of us hate imported cars just for the principle of the matter... Just as most of the media hates domestics and picks them apart for virtually no reason; we will do the same here. Do you honestly go to an import car fanboy site and whine when they REFUSE to give domestics a fair shake? (I'm willing to bet not--- In fact I'm willing to bet that it's an 'understood standard' that everyone bashes domestics and that it's somehow accepted because of the us verses 'the big bad wolf' (Detroit) mentality.

I don't mean any offense to you personally, but a GM fansite is just that. And no matter how much people sneer and look down their noses at our 'simple minded' rhetoric around here, it'll remain that because a large majority of us (especially me) couldn't care less how people view us.

There can be hard plastic, if it's well-executed. I still remember the pillowy, puffy interiors in some of GM's interiors like the Grand Am. They were horrific, but someone had decided that they public wanted "soft".

Tell the media that... Better yet, build a car with hard plastic that doesn't have an H or T on it and watch the reviews.

It's a minor small detail, yes. But a GREAT example to use. It's the small details that GM is turning a blind eye to.....or someone at GM certainly isn't sweating the details in any event.

I do and have agreed with this for years.

The Accord is simply a better car (yes, this is a safe assumption). This should be no surprise, given the vast amounts of money Honda has to develop and concentrate on new vehicles.

You know what they say about assumptions...

Of course, we all to an extent KNEW this would happen. The new Malibu could be an excellent car but the hardcore anti-GM or pro-Japan Inc. would write it off before they've even seen specs, prices, reviews or for that matter DECENT photography.

but it's the imports right now that are leading and defining this segment. And that's a problem for the new Malibu.

Yeah, because the cheap and flimsy new Camry interior is just frightenin' good. And that Tundra interior sure does live up to Toyota durability. How 'bout that Ridgeline interior that looks like Fischer Price took the lead on designing it. Don't forget about the new 80's Atari loving boyracer dubs of the new Civic!

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

BUT.....what GM really should have done is engineer the 300hp DI 3.6L for FWD duty and installed it in the V6 Malibu instead. Why....?????

Simple.......leapfrog the competition.....and provide an unexpected competitive advantage.

I agree 100%!

[VenSeattle]

actually $24k should get you a V6 Accord

My selection was based upon which Accord Northstar picked. Besides, The V6 Accord doesn't receive an upgraded interior. Compare a spec'd out V6 Accord and a Spec'd out Passat, and the Passat still comes out ahead with 6-spd auto, 280-hp V6, available memory seats, xenon headlights, real wood trim, front and rear distance censors, AWD, etc etc... a nicer environment all around.

Yeah, the Passat will come out more expensive than the Accord, but just like people are saying the Accord is worth the extra cost over the new Malibu, the Passat proves the Accord could be better.