CROSSOVERS

[regfootball]

Crossovers, one of the most lucrative and busting new segments ever.

Automakers are rushing to fill their lineups with all sorts of them. Size, price, etc.

They are starting to establish their own design type.

They are replacing fuel sucking BOF SUV's.

The big wave is just starting, yet, I am now tired of them all.

Is this a fad? Or will most vehicles sold in the future be crossovers?

How do you feel? I'm already kinda sick of them.

[Flybrian]

You mean big station wagons? That's really all they are - station wagons with extra headroom and unnecessary ground clearance.

I understand the need for the larger ones - Lambdas, Taurus X, Pacifica - but the small sport/luxury crossovers are so laughable to me. Overpriced, worse on fuel economy than a comperable sedan, and totally lacking utility. I recently saw a couple try to squeeze a vacuum cleaner into a Hyundai Tuscon - they were rearranging some bags, folding down a seat, all this hassle. I helped my girlfriend buy a similar vacuum cleaner a few weeks ago and I opened my trunk, put it in, and closed my trunk. WTF?

Give me a '76 Estate Wagon with the power tailgate and glass. I'd fiddle with it to make it operate with a key fob to irritate those without power liftgates on their '08s. Not only does it look better than these Veracruz, R-Class jokers, but it carries more, tows more, seats more (9 versus 7), and probably gets similar mileage.

[Northstar]

Everyone is going to want more room in the future, whether real or perceived, but there are also many that don't want a truck-like ride. So yes, crossovers are going to continue to boom. I see no end in sight for at least 5-7 years.

[Camino LS6]

Crossovers don't interest me generally- I'd rather have a true wagon.

[loki]

Crossovers don't interest me generally- I'd rather have a true wagon.

+1, being that's what i started out with. only thing that's nice in X-overs could be adjustable back seats. be it 2nd or 3rd row.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Crossovers don't interest me generally- I'd rather have a true wagon.

Get me a Roadmaster Estate, and I'll just sit in the Costco Parking lot loading bags to make people jealous at the efficient use of space compared to a weenie crossover.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I don't care for trucks or SUV, but I can still see the purpose of crossovers. If you don't need to tow anything, and don't need to go offroading, would you rather have a minivan, a BOF suv that gets 15mpg, or a crossover? I'd pick the crossover.

The only drawback for most crossovers, is FWD, which doesn't really matter for this type of vehicle.

I'd take an SRX over an Escalade.

[K.C.]

I call them "fat wagons" and I think they are the perfect combination of utility and passenger space. I can see them being around for 15-20 years before their image as a soccer mom mobile fails them.

[Flybrian]

Well, the funny thing is despite being "late to the game" , the domestics have the segment stunners.

Swanky stylin'

Classic wagon remixed

Spongebob DVD on constant loop

[vonVeezelsnider]

Gotta say my fav crossovers are the Flex, Acadia, SRX, Enclave, and Taurus X.

[GMTruckGuy74]

I don't care for trucks or SUV, but I can still see the purpose of crossovers. If you don't need to tow anything, and don't need to go offroading, would you rather have a minivan, a BOF suv that gets 15mpg, or a crossover? I'd pick the crossover.

+1

I don't tow, I don't go off-roading, and I don't like many any of the current minivan offerings (although the power sliding dual doors are a cool feature). Crossovers appeal to me the most, especially with two kids and the desire to travel with more than 5 people in one vehicle. Personally, I like trucks and would rather have a truck-baed/BOF SUV over a crossover, but a Yukon Denali XL is a little out of the question price-wise when compared to the Acadia!!!

However, my love of the GMC Sierra Crew Cab 4WD overides common sence and I'd gladly take it over a BOF suv or crossover

[pow]

The "crossover" name is new (and vague - everything from the SRX to Vibe is being called that), but the carlike SUV has been with us for a while. Things like the X5, RX300, Pilot, CR-V, and Highlander were all considered SUVs until the word "SUV" became antisocial. I see the "crossover craze" as SUVs becoming roomier, more comfortable, more efficient, and better handling.

[PurdueGuy]

Crossovers are fine.

...but I'll keep my Suburban.

[regfootball]

You mean big station wagons? That's really all they are - station wagons with extra headroom and unnecessary ground clearance.

I understand the need for the larger ones - Lambdas, Taurus X, Pacifica - but the small sport/luxury crossovers are so laughable to me. Overpriced, worse on fuel economy than a comperable sedan, and totally lacking utility. I recently saw a couple try to squeeze a vacuum cleaner into a Hyundai Tuscon - they were rearranging some bags, folding down a seat, all this hassle. I helped my girlfriend buy a similar vacuum cleaner a few weeks ago and I opened my trunk, put it in, and closed my trunk. WTF?

its so funny. one of my recent work trips.....the guy i was with rented a sportage (tucson clone). we had to work like hell to get 3 pieces of luggage and some drawings and work bags in that tiny trunk.....the whole time i was thinking to myself.....this would not even fill half the trunk on my 500.

i've really been reflecting internally lately on what i need to do when my 500 lease is up next fall or before then. we have the aztek which suits our crossover needs well, but i still might really prefer a minivan in the future or 3 row crossover....(even though the aztek has more cargo space than 90% of the crossovers out there). If i picked a taurus x, i'd lose 1/3 to 1/2 the usable cargo area i have in the aztek now. so i have been leaning towards the flex, assuming it spacious enough. otherwise i may succumb to a minivan (most likely i would find a lightly used freestar at an auction for like 9 grand and pimp it up with some 6 spoke 18 inch wheels and a big time audio video system). at a minimum, i will replace the 500 with a taurus.

but then, when i get those 'bored with crossover' attacks, i realize that i could be really damn happy with another large sedan, but sportier, like say...G8!

i just wonder if crossovers are a ten year fad or if they will basically become the new sedan and truck all in one.

one benefit with sedans...cargo area is closed off from the cabin. sometimes good, sometimes bad.

i guess an all black base model flex is probably the leader right now. point being, even though crossovers are becoming tired and cliched, i guess i would have to lean towards getting one becuase you really get hooked on utility 6 days a week. you'd like a kick ass car for day 7 to beat on, but who can justify the extra car?

Edited August 25, 2007 by regfootball

[Satty]

Reg, when the Flex hits lots, I expect a very detailed test drive from you. Seriously, I really like the looks and the space advantage over the Edge is appealing, especially if Ford saw fit to offer an Element-like hose-out interior with flat fold seats.

[CARBIZ]

Personally, I am entirely sick of the entire 'truck' thing. Madison Avenue has run its course in convincing us that big, gas guzzling SUVs are what we need and killed off the image of the minivan, but the truth is that a family of 5 or 6 needs something other than a Malibu or Accord when it comes to long trips. Safety factors have killed off the large sedan as the preferred family hauler. We would routinely pile 4 or 5 kids in the back seat of my parents big Chryslers and Pontiacs - but that was 35 years ago, before seatbelt legislation, etc.

Three rows are mandatory for a large family today. A cross-over if you must; a minivan is better.

[Dsuupr]

I think the crossover is a natural change. First station wagon, then minivan, then big SUV. Now you put the best features of each one together and you get a good looking family vehicle.

Wagon

Pros - Good handling, good gas mileage, comfortable seats

Cons - Not tall enough on the inside for cargo space, not much legroom or headroom

Minivan

Pros - Tons of cargo space, easy to enter, packed with options and doodads

Cons - Ugly, poor handling & suspension control, not so comfortable rear seats, squeeky doors (no matter who makes it, they get squeeky with age)

BOF SUV

Pros - Can pull anything you want, 4wd or Awd, high comfortable seating, a view from upabove

Cons - Gas mileage, cost, hard to get into

Crossover

Pros - Can pull larger trailer, Awd, high comfortable seating, a view from above, decent gas mileage, tons of cargo space, easy to enter, packed with doodads, and good gas mileage

Cons - Some are too small to be useful. This could be said of any of the other options as well.

Being a parent of 2 and having both a small car (Cobalt) and a large SUV (Suburban), I can tell you that the Cobalt got old real quick when it came to even the smallest of family errands. The Suburban was also not so easy with kids, as it was always a chore to get them in it. Atleast with the Suburban we could fit everything, and everyone we wanted to come along. Something we can't say about the Cobalt or even our Park Avenue.

[enzl]

As a parent, I can only tell you that the 'crossover' paradigm works real well with baby seats and misc. gear--I think the h-point is somehow more ergonomic....but I can tell you the height, weight and drag of an AWD/4wd set-up make most of the ones of driven mediocre 'Cars' in the truest sense of the word.

I love wagons. There. I've admitted it.

But I can see why SUV escappees love em (X-over's, that is)

Edited August 26, 2007 by enzl

[Camino LS6]

I see why crossovers have a place in the market. But they are, by definition, compromise vehicles and I just can't make myself compromise when I buy a vehicle.

I think if I really needed a people hauler, I'd get a Suburban and be done with it. Nothing beats it for utility.

[Flybrian]

The Suburban is truly the unmatched jack of all trades and master of all. When all other SUVs whither and die, the Suburban will still remain.

[Camino LS6]

The Suburban is truly the unmatched jack of all trades and master of all. When all other SUVs whither and die, the Suburban will still remain.

Exactly.

[Sixty8panther]

I miss my Roadmaster Estate...

Crossovers don't interest me generally- I'd rather have a true wagon.

Yes, exactly... OR I'll take a nice STURDY (BOF) SUV

like a TrailBlazer or Tahoe.

Also, if I was overly concerned with interior volume,

fuel economy & I did not want to be politically

incorrect by driving a big 4x4 Suburban or what not

but I still had 2008 equinox type money I'd buy one

of these and have 2nd & 3rd row installed!

Now that's a good compromise between style, price,

passanger capacity & massive-cargo GVWR!

[CaddyXLR-V]

Believe it or not, there are some people who don't like the way trucks drive. I'm one of them. I don't go offroading, I don't tow, and if I did it would be jet ski or 2. But that is nothing the Lambdas can't handle. I'm a big fan of RWD, but if you are in a big 5000 SUV, what good is it? It's not like your going to be drag racing or taking it to the autocross. I would take an Acadia over the Suburban.

[Satty]

Believe it or not, there are some people who don't like the way trucks drive. I'm one of them. I don't go offroading, I don't tow, and if I did it would be jet ski or 2. But that is nothing the Lambdas can't handle. I'm a big fan of RWD, but if you are in a big 5000 SUV, what good is it? It's not like your going to be drag racing or taking it to the autocross. I would take an Acadia over the Suburban.

Ditto, with the dearth of large true station wagons, the crossover is the best option for people who need the extra room but dont want the ponderous drive or less efficient interior of a traditional SUV.

[Camino LS6]

Believe it or not, there are some people who don't like the way trucks drive. I'm one of them. I don't go offroading, I don't tow, and if I did it would be jet ski or 2. But that is nothing the Lambdas can't handle. I'm a big fan of RWD, but if you are in a big 5000 SUV, what good is it? It's not like your going to be drag racing or taking it to the autocross. I would take an Acadia over the Suburban.

To each his own, but I've been driving trucks (and HDs at that) for so long that I'm totally comfortable with the way they drive. The 1500 Suburban feels like a Vette after getting out of an HD pickup, and is remarkably nimble for such a large SUV.

Even so, I drive my HD Silverado more aggressively than most people drive a sportscar with complete confidence. Trucks are so much more capable as general drivers than ever before. It no longer requires any real effort to drive a truck - such was not the case before the GMT 400s in 1988.

[K.C.]

For those who are not car people, and are on a budget and cannot afford two vehicles, the crossover is a perfect compromise. As a car guy, I would only buy two cross overs, the SRX sport and the Enclave SLT. Like Camino, I have been driving trucks since I was a teenager, and am used to the handling. The newest trucks handle far better than cars from the 70's, 80's, and early 90's used to handle. I like having a car around as well for times when I want to tear up a winding road to just go for a long drive.

[Sixty8panther]

The large station wagon is not dead:

[Camino LS6]

The large station wagon is not dead:

I considered the Magnum at one point until I saw how tiny the rear section is. It's a great looking car, but lacks the utility of the wagons of yore.

[Sixty8panther]

I agree... it has 60% of the room of my old RoadSmasher Estate

but compared to an Equinox, Rav4 or some other POS crossover

let's be honest: most people would be better off in the Dodge!

[CMG]

Minivan

Pros - Tons of cargo space, easy to enter, packed with options and doodads

Cons - Ugly, poor handling & suspension control, not so comfortable rear seats, squeeky doors (no matter who makes it, they get squeeky with age)

Ouch, aside from "ugly" for SOME minivans, I couldn't agree at all.

We sold a minivan awhile ago, it was AWESOME as far as a practical vehicle goes. When my wife was looking at it I was wincing, I hated minivans at the time.

She bought one, and seven years later when she sold it I was truly sad to see it go. It had 240,000ish K on it, and was the most trouble free vehicle I have had with that kind of mileage.

GREAT handling, great suspension, but it had a "Sport" package- 16" wheels, big brakes, big sway bars etc...

Rear seating was VERY comfortable. The doors never "squeaked", in fact I have never heard of that with ANY brand of minivan?

I drove a 1997 Astro van of my neighbours, I think many GM guys who drive them must not appreciate minivans, because they do NOT drive like most minivans, they are very "delivery truck" like. Those who have driven them know what I mean...

The crossover thing is for the confused crowd more than anything- they aren't sure what they want, and the salesman can talk them into a "combination" vehicle. "Best of both worlds", blah blah blah....

:AH-HA_wink:

[CMG]

The large station wagon is not dead:

My wife traded her minivan for one of those.

When she bought her minivan I absolutely did NOT want one, but it's so danged practical I almost miss it now.

Her Magnum is much the same, when the 300 came out I didn't like them. I drove my buddy's brand new 300 SRT8 and was jaw dropped at the performance, acelleration, braking, cornering, you name it.

Unfortunately my wife was in the car when I drove it... LOL

She has always loved the Magnum since it came out, and always wanted one. I told her it probably had blind spots becasue of the low roof, probably got less than stellar gas mileage, etc etc

I'm glad she never listened to me.

She is now in LOVE with her car, for the first time ever. She even WASHES it. ALL THE TIME! LOL!!!!!

27mpg on the highway, tons of power (it's surprising) and a great all around car. 6 months and 18,000k later, she's happy as can be. Me too surprisingly!

[Flybrian]

That's not even a midsize wagon...

[Sixty8panther]

Gotta tell you... I love the Magnum. The up & over tailgate is boss.

What's not to like in a Magnum?

[CARBIZ]

I miss my Roadmaster Estate...

Yes, exactly... OR I'll take a nice STURDY (BOF) SUV

like a TrailBlazer or Tahoe.

Also, if I was overly concerned with interior volume,

fuel economy & I did not want to be politically

incorrect by driving a big 4x4 Suburban or what not

but I still had 2008 equinox type money I'd buy one

of these and have 2nd & 3rd row installed!

Now that's a good compromise between style, price,

passanger capacity & massive-cargo GVWR!

I miss my '91 Caprice wagon, too: American Racing wheels, I had the windows darkened, I could sleep in the back, tow my boat, take my canoe anywhere. But it got 23 mpg on a good day, and although kids would love to sit in the 3rd row and 'see where we've been,' it really wasn't the safest place for them. Except for the towing bit, a '91 Grand Caravan would have been fine - and better on gas.

However, on looks alone, I will grant that my Caprice looked better. (I"ll post pics later to prove that.)

[Cory Wolfe]

The large station wagon is not dead:

I do like the Magnum.

[Sixty8panther]

I use a magnum quite frequently, but let's get back to the topic of cars....

[CMG]

That's not even a midsize wagon...

OK.

It's an ultra compact sized wagon.

Is that better?

LOL

[CMG]

I use a magnum quite frequently, but let's get back to the topic of cars....

I agree.

The crossovers seem like they are bought by people THINKING about a bigger SUV, but don't really NEED a big SUV.

Mind you, LOTS of people that don't need a big SUV still wind up buying one.....

I think crossovers can be thought of as hitting both target markets, or missing both target markets, depending on taste of the persons posting.

I think they miss both markets usually...

[Sixty8panther]

Actaully there's two completely different types of MAGNUMs that can be used for "protection."

Neither one of them have anything to do with Dodges or wagons.

[regfootball]

Gotta tell you... I love the Magnum. The up & over tailgate is boss.

What's not to like in a Magnum?

cheap interior and cabin claustrophobia are the reasons i wouldn't get a magnum, but i enjoyed driving my magnum rental.

[CMG]

cheap interior and cabin claustrophobia are the reasons i wouldn't get a magnum, but i enjoyed driving my magnum rental.

I like the Magnum interior, it's well thought out, and I've driven thousands of miles in a Magnum, never came close to having anything near "claustrophobia".

The interior is quite spacious and comfortable.

[Flybrian]

Like the MAXX to the regular Malibu sedan, the Magnum makes an adequate utility companion to the Charger sedan, but 'tis no real wagon with real wagon spaciousness. The very last Taurus wagon had more cargo room.

[CMG]

Like the MAXX to the regular Malibu sedan, the Magnum makes an adequate utility companion to the Charger sedan, but 'tis no real wagon with real wagon spaciousness. The very last Taurus wagon had more cargo room.

Got any links to that claim? I've driven in a Taurus wagon, and can't believe that to be true.

Wikipedia says the Magnum is bigger in height and width. The Magnum's 58.4"/197.7"/74.1" versus 57.8/197.7/73" for the 2007 Taurus.

I know five people fit ALOT better in the Magnum, I've done five people in both cars.

Edited August 25, 2007 by CMG

[Camino LS6]

I don't have a problem with the "people part" of the Magnum's interior, it was the cargo area that I found lacking.

[Flybrian]

Got any links to that claim? I've driven in a Taurus wagon, and can't believe that to be true.

Wikipedia says the Magnum is bigger in height and width. The Magnum's 58.4"/197.7"/74.1" versus 57.8/197.7/73" for the 2007 Taurus.

I'm speaking only of cargo room, not interior spaciousness. From Edmunds...

Roadmaster

Luggage Capacity: N/A

Maximum Cargo Capacity: 92 cu. ft.

Taurus Wagon

Luggage Capacity: 37.8 cu. ft.

Maximum Cargo Capacity: 81 cu. ft.

Dodge Magnum

Luggage Capacity: 27.2 cu. ft.

Maximum Cargo Capacity: 72 cu. ft.

Again, I understand why the Magnum isn't as caspacious - its not supposed to be; its supposed to be a sportwagon that. But by traditional wagon standards, its by no means fullsize nor utilitarian. Sadly that seems to suit everyone in this country just fine. I think Dodge could've carried off aggresive styling without having to pinch the rear hatch so much and included a glass liftgate to make the Magnum even more useful. On the other hand, Mercedes' wagons are even worse (69 and 64 for the E- and C-Class).

I will say though that the 2008 restyle makes it more attractive and I'd take it anyday over a 300, which is far to common for me to enjoy.

[K.C.]

I use a magnum quite frequently, but let's get back to the topic of cars....

========================================================

How come you are using a gun so often? :AH-HA_wink:

[regfootball]

I like the Magnum interior, it's well thought out, and I've driven thousands of miles in a Magnum, never came close to having anything near "claustrophobia".

The interior is quite spacious and comfortable.

i don't care for the mailslot windows and dismal gray color schemes and nasty plastic. you almost want to tear your eyeballs out yelling 'mommy they're out to get me!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Edited August 26, 2007 by regfootball

[CMG]

i don't care for the mailslot windows and dismal gray color schemes and nasty plastic. you almost want to tear your eyeballs out yelling 'mommy they're out to get me!!!!!!!!!!!!'

Drink much?

LOL

The interior is actually pretty nice. Leather heated seat, power everything, an EVIC that can tell you everything you could imagine. It's well laid out and everything is easy to use.

I saw your post with the "OOOOOOO AAAAHHH" and whatever in the other thread.

You should be a writer!

LOL

hahahaha

[PurdueGuy]

For me, the crossover vs true SUV debate didn't last long. I kinda thought a Saturn Vue to go with our two Saturn coupes would be kinda cool, but dirt roads in mountains meant it needed to be a real truck. I can see crossovers being totally adequate for people who don't see off roads or major hauling.

Then there was the debate of how big does it need to be. For someone who will drive their SUV regularly, I can see going with something smaller for some better fuel economy, but since this is an occasional use vehicle, we wanted it to fit practically every occasional use we might come across. The really rather small fuel economy differences stepping from a Blazer to a full size SUV, and from a Tahoe to a Suburban, just made it clear that we might as well get the big one and be sure we can do everything with it. Including hauling lots of people more comfortably than I've found in pretty much any vehicle short of a small bus. Minivans & crossovers I've been in aren't nearly as comfortable for adults in the back rows.

There certainly are those who do NOT need a big SUV that have them, though.

[enzl]

Love the Magnum.

Cheap but cheerful interior(, especially if some other guy took the 35%+ depreciation in the first year)

I've got my eye on a couple of color/option combos that periodically appear at auction...I just don't quite need that 2nd car, yet.

The Magnum is really a 5 door, a stylish successor to the Rover 3500 or original Saab 9000, rather than a wagon. Magnums are slaves to their fashion sense, in that the practicality is limited by style choices, but they're neat cars nonetheless.

Edited August 26, 2007 by enzl